heparin

[Guest guest]

Sorry Sue B: I've got my own heparin already from a central line I did for 9

months. In fact, if anthrax ever hits...don't worry...Ive got a lifetime of

penicillen from the bone infection they have treated me for.( no not the

clap) xxoxoxoxoxo Shell

[Guest guest]

hi, i wanted to know can u get heparin without a prescription? i'm taking

doxy but want to get the most out of it......thanks

Radha

[Patti:] You must have a prescription for heparin. You would not want to

take it without the hypercoag tests and followup tests.

[Guest guest]

You CAN'T and SHOULD NOT SELF-PRESCRIBED HEPARIN OR WAYAFIN!!!!

Heparin is an injected drug that needs CONSTANT MONITORING... Bromelain, Piracetam (and other smart drugs in the same family) are slower, but without the real real risks of heparin.

Heparin and wayafin are both very effective poisons if you take too much. Wayafin is RAT POISON (it kills rats by causing them to bleed to death by thinning they blood and blood vessels)! Hepain injections always leave nice bruise marks and also can cause major bone loss...

Ken Lassesen ----- Original Message -----

From: radha21@...

hi, i wanted to know can u get heparin without a prescription? i'm taking doxy but want to get the most out of it......thanksRadha

[Guest guest]

KenL wrote:

>

You CAN'T and SHOULD NOT SELF-PRESCRIBED HEPARIN OR WAYAFIN!!!!

Heparin is an injected drug that needs CONSTANT MONITORING... Bromelain,

Piracetam (and other smart drugs in the same family) are slower, but without the

real real risks of heparin.

Heparin and wayafin are both very effective poisons if you take too much.

Wayafin is RAT POISON (it kills rats by causing them to bleed to death by

thinning they blood and blood vessels)! Hepain injections always leave nice

bruise marks and also can cause major bone loss...

>

Hi Ken,

Thanks for sending this advice out. I think it's really important for all of us

to remember.

Ray

[Guest guest]

Isn't the safer drug to take luvnox(spelling help!) I heard it causes less bone

loss but, of course, it is much more expensive.

Steve

Ray Colliton wrote:

> KenL wrote:

> >

> You CAN'T and SHOULD NOT SELF-PRESCRIBED HEPARIN OR WAYAFIN!!!!

>

> Heparin is an injected drug that needs CONSTANT MONITORING... Bromelain,

> Piracetam (and other smart drugs in the same family) are slower, but without

the

> real real risks of heparin.

>

> Heparin and wayafin are both very effective poisons if you take too much.

> Wayafin is RAT POISON (it kills rats by causing them to bleed to death by

> thinning they blood and blood vessels)! Hepain injections always leave nice

> bruise marks and also can cause major bone loss...

> >

>

> Hi Ken,

>

> Thanks for sending this advice out. I think it's really important for all of

us

> to remember.

>

> Ray

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%

> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!

> 1/936/2/_/531724/_/954549818/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I'm still trying to put it all together. Do Heparin and Bromelain do the same thing? I know that both have been mentioned as blood thinners? Other than insurance coverage, is there any benefit to getting the prescription over Bromelain? or to doing both?

My Bromelain arrived in the mail this week, and I would like to start taking it. Do I need to have the blood tests done first? If so, does insurance usually cover them? I don't want to pay all of that out of pocket. I already pay $100/month copay for prescriptions plus more for all of the supplements that I take? Are there any meds that it is not safe to take with?

RE: Heparin

hi, i wanted to know can u get heparin without a prescription? i'm taking doxy but want to get the most out of it......thanksRadha[Patti:] You must have a prescription for heparin. You would not want totake it without the hypercoag tests and followup tests.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

From: B. [mailto:Mel@...]

I'm still trying to put it all together. Do Heparin and Bromelain do the

same thing?

[Patti:] Yes and no. Heparin is a drug that must be injected (currently)

which specifically " thins " the blood. Bromelain is a digestive enzyme found

in pineapples. As with many natural substances, it can do more than just

one thing, its also known to thin the blood. It also has antiinflamitory

properties and probably has other properties as well.

I know that both have been mentioned as blood thinners? Other than

insurance coverage, is there any benefit to getting the prescription over

Bromelain? or to doing both?

[Patti:] Strength. Heparin is an " industrial strength " blood thinner for

industrial strength problems. It also works quicker. Bromelain may work

quickly on smaller coagulation problems, but would probably take a long time

(like a year) to make a noticeable effect on monumental problem. Berg

recommends heparin to more or less " jump start " the recovery process

(especially when there's a genetic component). I think its a good idea to

get a hypercoag test done to see how much or how little of a coag problem

exists. If the problem is huge, you can save youself a lot of frustration

from trying things that don't work. I was taking an aspirin a day and

several other blood thinning herbs when I took the hypercoag test and my

blood was still so thick and sticky that its probably a miracle that I

haven't had a stroke yet.

As with anything, you need the right tool for the job. You don't need a big

sledge hammer to stick a pin in a cork, but you do need one to drive in a

railroad spike. Its a matter of scope.

Because some people have a hypofibrinolysis problem IN ADDITION TO a

hypercoag problem they need to take something to aid fibrinolysis as well.

Bromelain can do this, but if your allergic there are some other things that

can work also, like niacin, onion and garlic. So yes, heparin and bromelain

can be taken together. But your doc must monitor you blood.

My Bromelain arrived in the mail this week, and I would like to start taking

it. Do I need to have the blood tests done first? If so, does insurance

usually cover them?

[Patti:] Depends on your insurance. Mine paid 60%.

Are there any meds that it is not safe to take with?

[Patti:] Pineapple has some known interactions with drugs (makes you need

less of the drug so you can get an overdose by taking normal amount). Other

drugs can affect heparin also. Best to check with a doc or pharmacist.

[Guest guest]

HEPARIN does MORE types of anticoagulation than Bromelain

HEPARIN works much faster than Bromelain (it's Industrial strength)

Using Heparin appears to shorten the NEEDED length of antibiotics from 18 months to 3 months.

HEPARIN requires a lot more monitoring (test by MD) - thus a major inconvience to some MDs.

HEPARIN may result in bone mass loss.

For information about bromelain, see http://www.folkarts.com/idef/bromelain.htm for links to most of the stuff available on the web.

(I should get a page done up on Heparin...)

(As an FYI: Between Laurie and myself.... our supplements monthly bill (excluding prescriptions) exceeds the food bill for the family)

Ken Lassesen 2 @ 2 ft PWC, 2 @ 4ft PWC2 ft PWC: http://www.folkarts.com/idef/4 ft PWC: http://corgi.folkarts.com/Fax: (520) 832-6836 ICQ #: 2122097 (Netmeeting too)

Re: Heparin

I'm still trying to put it all together. Do Heparin and Bromelain do the same thing? I know that both have been mentioned as blood thinners? Other than insurance coverage, is there any benefit to getting the prescription over Bromelain? or to doing both?

My Bromelain arrived in the mail this week, and I would like to start taking it. Do I need to have the blood tests done first? If so, does insurance usually cover them? I don't want to pay all of that out of pocket. I already pay $100/month copay for prescriptions plus more for all of the supplements that I take? Are there any meds that it is not safe to take with?

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I noticed from your web pages that you are taking a lot of supplements (My friends think that I'm on a lot). The question is when, if ever, you plan on trying to reduce those?

Re: Heparin

I'm still trying to put it all together. Do Heparin and Bromelain do the same thing? I know that both have been mentioned as blood thinners? Other than insurance coverage, is there any benefit to getting the prescription over Bromelain? or to doing both?

My Bromelain arrived in the mail this week, and I would like to start taking it. Do I need to have the blood tests done first? If so, does insurance usually cover them? I don't want to pay all of that out of pocket. I already pay $100/month copay for prescriptions plus more for all of the supplements that I take? Are there any meds that it is not safe to take with?

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Good question! Let me answer this backwards:

We do not intend to stop taking whey, bromelain, piracetam and olive leaf extract - they are going to become part of our permament supplements -- just lower dosages. The rest will be dropped... W.B.P.and OLE are now taken by all of our girls (10 - 17) day -- and the real nice byproduct of them taking these have been greatly improved mood with them and a lot more family closeness. We view these 4 as the best preventation that may be taken on an ongoing basis...

We've started dropping off stuff one by one, NADH is now only a 'relapse' item, usually when our current supply of a supplements runs out -- if we notice no difference once we are off it, then we just coast along without it ... (this may be a while for some of the stuff...). Needless to say, you need to be observant of what changes when you stop - it may be tinnitus or irritability (thus you need to be careful with self-monitoring)

Ken Lassesen 2 @ 2 ft PWC, 2 @ 4ft PWC2 ft PWC: http://www.folkarts.com/idef/4 ft PWC: http://corgi.folkarts.com/Fax: (520) 832-6836 ICQ #: 2122097 (Netmeeting too)

Re: Heparin

Ken,

I noticed from your web pages that you are taking a lot of supplements (My friends think that I'm on a lot). The question is when, if ever, you plan on trying to reduce those?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/2000 5:03:59 PM Central Daylight Time,

radha21@... writes:

>

> hi everyone, could any of u who's on heparin injections tell me what to

> expect? what problems u had and how soon u felt benefits and what kind of

> benefits? i know Ruth u r on it, please reply, i would appreciate any

advice,

>

> i'm little scared about as there r so many risks involved. thanks

> Radha

>

Hi Radha,

I've may not have been following all posts recently. Where are you with the

Heparin? Have you been tested by Hemex? Are you currently on Heparin or

Lovenox? If so which dose?

My problems... at the time I started shots I was bed ridden, had been on

antibiotics about three months and I was extremely sick from the antibiotics

and the constant herxing --that never let up only continually debilitated

me--and the stress in my family was out of sight. I was so bad off I am

probably not a good candidate to tell you how the shots effected me, but I

will.. if you understand I was already sick.

I never had flu like symptoms that have been reported. I ached in my joints

and my bones at the time, but that was no worse with or without the shots and

I was already on heavy codiene to manage pain. What I do remember was the

sudden sensations and the creepy-crawlie feelings in my body. I have put it

down to unblocking of capillaries, and the pipe cleaning that I under went at

first. But, the good side, I was able to stop my bad headaches COLD within

twenty minutes of a shot. My vision would also clear better after a shot.

In a short period of time I was able to stretch my muscles, and flex. My

joints stopped aching, my FM pain diminished and finally went away.

Heparin is part of the cure, if you have hyperclotting in your veins. I

truly believe that it does do its job more slowly than anyone would like, but

it does provide a service and sets our bodies in a position for better,

further healing therapies.

By the way, I started shots 2-'99. I am still taking them, but at present I

am only taking less than 1/8 the amount of Heparin/Lovenox as I was taking

when I started. And it is doing the same work!

As far as risks, they are minimal... osteo is your biggest problem and even

that should not occur in so small a dose as you will take. It's always a

good idea to get a baseline Bone Density Test at the outset and then you can

effectively monitor that. As far as bleeding incidents... I have had my

problems, but then again, I was one of the first to try this drug this way

and because of the fine tuning associated with research, Ihave taken higher

doses than you would ever think about taking. Stay within Berg's present

guidelines for dosage and you will be fine. If you have a bleeding problem

while taking small doses, I think it would be safe to consider that you might

just have contracted Shingles like I did. That will make anyone a bleeder.

Hope this is of help.

Ruth

Hope this helps.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I have been on for 10 weeks. No problems. Still don't bleed even when I

stick myself with the needle. Have increased my dose slightly. I am

taking antibiotics every other week. Have herxing and feel sick sometimes

then, but not during the rest of the time. I wasn't too sick to start

with, had been in remission. But it seems like now the antibiotics can

work, and I can go a week without them without getting a sinus infection.

I also went almost a week without catapres which I use to increase my

blood pressure, eliminate orthostatic intolerance. I had wondered if the

Heparin would make a difference with that and it seems like maybe it is.

But I was warned that Heparin wouldn't be an immediate thing for me

because I have high lp(a) which makes it take a long time to clear the

fibrin out of the blood.

Cindi

radha21@...

09/15/00 03:02 PM

Please respond to

egroups

cc:

Subject: Heparin

hi everyone, could any of u who's on heparin injections tell me what to

expect? what problems u had and how soon u felt benefits and what kind of

benefits? i know Ruth u r on it, please reply, i would appreciate any

advice,

i'm little scared about as there r so many risks involved. thanks

Radha

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

hi cindi, u mentioned catapres, what is that? i have low blood presure too

and get the pounding in the head alot. thanks for replying

Radha

[Guest guest]

> Well I have another question on the heparin. I was reading on the PDR

> website and it mentions for SC injections using a " concentrated

> solution " . Is this what those of you on heparin are using? This stuff I

> have is a strength of1,000units/ml. Maybe one of these days I'll get to

> start this trial run.

>

> Phil

Since it looks like no one has responded to your question yet, I will although

others may be better informed. The heparin I used was 10,000 USP Units/ml. I'm

not sure why your doctor ordered the weaker type since you end up having to use

so much of it. Your pharmacy may need to special order the stronger kind. But

you can hardly fit 4cc's in an insulin syringe. Good luck! Judy

[Guest guest]

I took heparin for almost 2 years, and antibiotics longer. I have been

tapering off the heparin of late.

I got many improvements from the heparin, just based on blood thickness.

Orthostatic Intolerance improved. Very painful periods went away. Could

stand on my feet longer without them aching. Interest in sex returned. My

blood was so thick it was barely moving it seems!

My overall CFIDS symptoms improved dramatically while on the antibiotics.

Unfortunately I never had a test so I don't know what mycoplasma or whatever

I had. I had no problems with candida, but I continued to take probitoics

religiously. I was so improved I went back to work full time and had my

fillings removed. That was my mistake. In the long run I think better, but

the past year I have been fighting the mercury that my body dumped, much of

which went to my brain. I thought " brain fog " was bad, but it is minor

compared with " cognitive meltdown " from mercury in the brain.

Let me know if there's anything specific you want to know that I didn't

mention.

Doris

Thanks,

Doris

heparin

> Is anyone on heperin? Please, I would like to know

> your experiences with it. Thank You

> -Jan

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/2/2002 3:57:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dorisbrown9@... writes:

> I took heparin for almost 2 years, and antibiotics longer. I have been

> tapering off the heparin of late.

>

>

My overall CFIDS symptoms improved dramatically while on the antibiotics

Hello Doris,

Just curious, what was the list of antibiotics you were on, for your period

of more than 2 years?

Respectfully,

Don

[Guest guest]

Doxycycline. 300mg for the last year (was working up prior to that)

Doris

----- Original Message -----

>

> My overall CFIDS symptoms improved dramatically while on the antibiotics

>

> Hello Doris,

>

> Just curious, what was the list of antibiotics you were on, for your

period

> of more than 2 years?

>

[Guest guest]

Doris,

These are impressive results. How much CFS remains for you after heparin? Or

did it come back after awhile?

I am also wondering it anyone has used natural blood thinners with this kind

of success?

When I took heparin my

lifelong extreme menstrual pain stopped, my interest in sex returned, my

orthostatic intolerance improved, my hands and feet weren't cold all the

time. I'm sure there are things I'm not remembering.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I got much much better (heparin + antibiotics + whey protein) (I also took

many supplemets and antioxidants but didn't notice any true improvement from

them). In fact, after a while on heparin + antibiotics + whey, I thought I

was well, so I had my fillings removed and got mercury poisoned. At least

that's what I think happened. I suppose it could have just been a

coincidence but I got extremely sick 2 months after I had all the fillings

out. I did also go back to work full time at that time, after 6 months of

half time, so it could have been that too.

All those other symptoms I mentioned in my other email that were improved

with heparin (lifelong extreme menstrual pain stopped, my interest in sex

returned, my orthostatic intolerance improved, my hands and feet weren't

cold all the), stayed improved. In fact I have been off the heparin for

some time now, but those benefits haven't gone away. I am finally coming

back from my cognitive problems (from the mercury or whatever) with the help

of B12 shots.

My condition now is that I feel pretty decent much of the time (which is

saying a lot!), but I don't have much stamina either physically or mentally.

I become exhausted easily, and my brain quits working if it has too much to

do. I suspect that I have for the most part overcome the pathogens that

caused many of my symptoms (most recently mycoplasma) and moved into " Phase

III " where the dynamic hormone responses are lost. That model fits with me,

where I am pretty good as long as I stay in my box and don't try to do too

much. Or it could be that I have other pathogens I don't know about.

I hope that helps. Certainly there were people on the list that tried

natural blood thinners, but I don't know any that had significant

improvement. Most broke down and went on heparin. My problem was

hypofibrinolysis (too much fibrin) with strong genetic factors, and that is

the most difficult type to break down. There are supplements such as

bromelain that help it, but I'm not sure it is possible with supplements

alone.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: " BMFB " <bmfb@...>

> Doris,

>

> These are impressive results. How much CFS remains for you after heparin?

Or

> did it come back after awhile?

> I am also wondering it anyone has used natural blood thinners with this

kind

> of success?

[Guest guest]

> I hope that helps. Certainly there were people on the list that tried

> natural blood thinners, but I don't know any that had significant

> improvement. Most broke down and went on heparin. My problem was

> hypofibrinolysis (too much fibrin) with strong genetic factors, and that

is

> the most difficult type to break down. There are supplements such as

> bromelain that help it, but I'm not sure it is possible with supplements

> alone.

> Thanks,

> Doris

Doris,

For the record, I have had very real and lasting success in using natural

fibrinolytics -- as much or more success than anyone else seems to report on

this list from any other therapy.

I posted on this subject recently and if you'd like to know more I'll try to

answer any questions.

Rob

[Guest guest]

[bMFB] Rob, I would like to know more, what did you take? Sorry if you

already explained this, I would look it up if I know the subject heading.

Doris,

For the record, I have had very real and lasting success in using natural

fibrinolytics -- as much or more success than anyone else seems to report

on

this list from any other therapy.

I posted on this subject recently and if you'd like to know more I'll try

to

answer any questions.

Rob

[Guest guest]

,

It was a long post entitled Natural Fibrinolytics.

Rob

RE: Heparin

> [bMFB] Rob, I would like to know more, what did you take? Sorry if you

> already explained this, I would look it up if I know the subject heading.

>

>

>

> Doris,

>

> For the record, I have had very real and lasting success in using

natural

> fibrinolytics -- as much or more success than anyone else seems to

report

> on

> this list from any other therapy.

>

> I posted on this subject recently and if you'd like to know more I'll

try

> to

> answer any questions.

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Would you allow me to repost your post on Natural Fibrinolytics to EuroLyme,

as I think it is very relevant to all of us with chronic bacterial

infections?

Nelly

[Guest guest]

You have been on antibiotics a long time, so maybe it won't affect you much.

But if you have a lot of fibrin hiding bacteria, then you definitely might feel

crummy for a while as it breaks loose and the antibiotics can kill it. The

levels of heparin they will probably give you are much higher than what we take

so it could be even worse. You could always cut back on antibiotic levels if it

gets to be too much.

Thanks,

Doris

[Guest guest]

a,

I want to wish you the best for your cath tomorrow. I hope it goes

well.

Rich

> Monday, I have a heart catheterization. I am fully expecting they

will

> insert a stent. Anyway, I hope so because I want to get heparin. I

was just

> about to try to get a doctor to run the tests at Hemex on me when

they all

> decided my heart was the critical issue right now!!! Anyway, I

wonder if

> they give me heparin for a few months what should I expect? I

continue on

> Vantin and Zithromax prescribed by my new Lyme doctor.

> Thanks for any input,

> a