Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Wow. That is quite a list. The irony of the list is that it says to talk to your doctor. I have only met one doc who is knowledgeable about supplements. This is not something I think that is taught in medical school. I have been looking for a list such as this. Thanks, Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Kate, Doctors can always look up information on supplements. Medical journals publish articles about supplements almost daily. No doctor can read everything published in all of the peer-reviewed medical journals out there, but they can do research on specific topics when they need to. Just as a doctor should research a prescription drug if a patient asks about it, doctors can research non-prescription drugs and give you their best medical opinion about it. Though they are rare, there are MDs and DOs who also are licensed Naturopathic Physicians. These doctors will be more open to finding information on prescription drugs and non-prescription drugs (supplements). The important thing to remember is you should never take any kind of medical advise from strangers, even if they have the best of intentions. Only your doctor can provide accurate medical advise. Robynn -Owner Re: [ ] Supplements. Wow. That is quite a list. The irony of the list is that it says to talk to your doctor. I have only met one doc who is knowledgeable about supplements. This is not something I think that is taught in medical school. I have been looking for a list such as this. Thanks, Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Robyn, Although I agree with you about getting accurate info about drugs and health advice from our doctors, I also think it is important to know that many doctors get kickbacks from various drug manufacturers. Whenever I go to my doctor, which isn't as often as I used to go, there are always drug salesmen there to meet with him and leave him samples. Then oddly enough I notice how he has advertisements in his office for these drugs in the form of calendars, eyecharts, pamphlets for a number of months after and is recommending these drugs to his patients, even if they are already on another drug for the same problem. For instance, my girlfriend was on Avilide for high blood pressure. Then suddenly on a checkup to him, he switched her to Benicar for high blood pressure. This was not completely covered by her insurance as was ther other drug and she had to pay more out of pocket. but he said he didn't care and said it was better for her. Perhaps this was so, but I was very suspicious with all the promotions for this drug in his office. I thought perhaps he was getting something out of it in the form of a kickback from the drug company. Then I saw a documentary on how doctors are pushing Neurotin for many different physical and mental problems and how they were getting kickbacks from the Neurotin company and this confirmed my suspicions. That was when I stopped putting my MD on a pedistal. Yes, I still like him and trust his opinion, but now he is beginning to ask me for advice about my holistic approach to health because he sees the success that I have had in dealing with the chronic Lyme. I was amused that he even started recommending several of his patients to me who have CFS and Fibromialgia as well. I guess that despite the drug kickbacks, that's why I like him - because he has an open mind. It is true, however, that doctors in general know very little about supplements because they only get a minimal amount of training on this in medical school. Most doctors also believe there is no difference between a pharmaceutical multi-vitamin and a naturally formulated vitamin. Rauch Herbal Food Advisor Sunrider International www.sunrider.com (732) 946-2216 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 I conclude that a kick back for referrals is in order. HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Sue, While it is possible that some doctors may get kick backs from certain drug companies, its far more likely that the doctor just heard all the great reviews about the new drug and therefore believed it was in fact better. These good reviews did come from a sales person though, and knowing that the more they sell the more money they make, it's easy to believe a sales person would highlight the good and ignore the bad. The easiest way to find out if this is the situation is to ask. Many doctors work in corporations that do not allow kick backs of any kind. Some go so far as to not even allow samples or notepads. You won't know the policy of your doctor until you ask. It sounds like your friend did ask about the change in medication and simply got a response she did not like. However, If you're under the impression that this doctor places profit above safety, you should stop seeing them immediately. Anytime we feel a doctor could be jeopardizing our health, whatever the reason, it's time to find another doctor. I wasn't referring to what a doctor has in his or her head from medical school though. I was talking about doctors doing their own research. My doctor never had a problem researching different issues and drugs and reporting back to me what he had found. He always gave me copies of the articles he had read and we discussed how they related to my situation. More than once I have had doctors open their Physician Desk Reference (PDR) right in front of me and we compared the pros and cons of two drugs to decide which one would be a better choice. I know I expect a lot from my doctors. In today's health care environment doctors prefer to spend 10 minutes with a patient and then move on to the next as quickly as possible. For me, and most folks with Lyme disease, this is not an acceptable model. Its no surprise that the doctors we feel are leaders in the Lyme community are the ones who spend a lot of time with us and read current medical journals in hopes of finding new information to help their patients. These are the kind of doctors who won't feel threatened about researching something for a patient. Even if you have a doctor that doesn't take a lot of time with you it is IMPERATIVE that you discuss what supplements you are taking or you want to take with your doctor. Supplements effect the body just as drugs do. They should be discussed seriously as you would any drug. And you should always trust the advise of your doctor over the advise of a sales person. If you think you're just getting the sales pitch instead of your doctor's informed medical opinion, please find another doctor. Robynn Re: [ ] Supplements. Robyn, Although I agree with you about getting accurate info about drugs and health advice from our doctors, I also think it is important to know that many doctors get kickbacks from various drug manufacturers. Whenever I go to my doctor, which isn't as often as I used to go, there are always drug salesmen there to meet with him and leave him samples. Then oddly enough I notice how he has advertisements in his office for these drugs in the form of calendars, eyecharts, pamphlets for a number of months after and is recommending these drugs to his patients, even if they are already on another drug for the same problem. For instance, my girlfriend was on Avilide for high blood pressure. Then suddenly on a checkup to him, he switched her to Benicar for high blood pressure. This was not completely covered by her insurance as was ther other drug and she had to pay more out of pocket. but he said he didn't care and said it was better for her. Perhaps this was so, but I was very suspicious with all the promotions for this drug in his office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Jeannie, The really important thing to remember is that one needs to have an open and honest relationship with their doctor. I don't mind if a doctor sells supplements in his or her office as long as the patient has the option of buying the product(s) elsewhere. It's important that the doctor give the patients control and the power to make their own decision. When a doctor writes a prescription he doesn't require the patient go to a particular pharmacy and he shouldn't require the same from supplements. Earning a profit from selling products should be expected. (If a doctor gives you a splint for an injured limb he's actually selling the item to or your insurance company for a profit.) However, if you ever feel the doctor would rather make a profit than care for your needs then the relationship needs to be reexamined. I am NOT saying any doctor who sells products in the office is in it only for the money. Most naturopaths and homeopaths stock their own supplements to ensure a quality product is being given to the patient. I am sure this is the same with most MDs and DOs. The issue is about trust. You must trust where you are getting your healthcare advise. Jeannie, obviously you have a very trustful relationship with your doctor. This trust will only serve to make you healthier! I hope each of will have the opportunity to have such a trustful relationship with a doctor. Remember, a trustful doctor will also feel comfortable telling you that they don't know. Some MDs and DOs would rather have you see a Naturopathic Physician (ND) than learn about all the supplements themselves. It is perfectly okay to coordinate your care with another physician. This doesn't mean a doctor cares less, it just means they want to place their focus elsewhere. However, a doctor should ALWAYS be concerned about the supplements your are taking. Whether a doctor coordinates your care with an ND, or if you are taking supplements based upon your own research, your medical chart needs to note what you are taking! Robynn Re: [ ] Supplements. Robynn, Although I agree with you about getting accurate info about drugs and health advice from our doctors, I also think it is important to know that many doctors get kickbacks from various drug manufacturers. Most doctors also believe there is no difference between a pharmaceutical multi-vitamin and a naturally formulated vitamin. Sue Raush >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sue, It depends on the doc you go to. I see a DO/Alt doc, he found my Lyme when I went to him for CFS after being sick for 5yrs, who treats w/both antibiotics and supplements. He recommends vitamins/supplements from his office only because he knows exactly what is in them & that is important esp w/chemical sensitivities. Whether he gets a kickback or not,he is EXTREMELY cost conscious in regard to the patient. Checks a chart to see if your ins covers a test before he orders it. I'm on Doxy for a positive Mycoplasma test, but he just started me on Cat's Claw, TOA Free, a brand he recommends yet he told me I may find the same brand at a health food store. I prefer to stay out of any controversial emails, but I had to say that it really depends on the doc you find. Guess I am lucky as even the MDs that we have seen, have been kind enough to give us samples if they have them to save me a few bucks & also to save me paying for an Rx that I may not be able to take. I also feel it is extremely important that your doc knows ALL meds & supplements that you are on, that is how he/she can monitor what is helping,what is hurting, however, I do agree that it is difficult to find doc like this. Jeannie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Sue... I am deeply concerned by your statement, " Although I agree with you about getting accurate info about drugs and health advice from our doctors, I also think it is important to know that many doctors get kickbacks from various drug manufacturers. " Your evidence for making that statement is an anecdotal incident about your own doctor and a news item about how doctors (number not stated) are pushing Neurontin for kickbacks from the manufacturer. From this " evidence, " you jump to the accusation that " many " doctors are getting kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. There is no question that illegal kickbacks to medical doctors have occurred. To me, that does not make the practice of prescribing pharmaceuticals illegal, immoral, or in any more harmful than the well-documented cases of some nutritional supplement manufacturers who have provided mislabeled, useless, or even harmful concoctions. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Dear Jeannie, You are very fortunate to have found such a good doctor who incorporates both a medical and holistic approach, as well as being concerned about your wallet. My doctor, who was the one who diagnosed myself and my family with Lyme in 1989, is a good diagnostician, but thinks more in a medical mode. However, he is learning that the holistic approach works very well in conjunction with the medical approach. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hello 1/21/04, In reference to your comment: è Doctors can always look up information on è supplements. Medical journals publish articles about è supplements almost daily. No doctor can read è everything published in all of the peer-reviewed medical è journals out there, but they can do research on specific è topics when they need to. Just as a doctor should è research a prescription drug if a patient asks about it, è doctors can research non-prescription drugs and give è you their best medical opinion about it. There are several PDR's (Physician's Desk Reference)published.....here is a link to some that are listed.... Amazon.com: PDR for Nutritional Supplements: Explore similar items or you can go to google.com and type in PDR for herbs and vitamins and you will get a lists.... Angel Huggzzz or Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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