Re: dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

[Guest guest]

Dear Judie:

I have long heard that Lyme bacteria (well heard since I learned of Lyme in

January 2002) is not able to withstand oxygen. I believe that when you

exercise to the point of exhaustion, inhaling deep breaths and with profuse

perspiration Lyme bacteria is killed. Both the added oxygen in the blood and

the

higher temperature are extremely bad for the Lyme bacteria. I was unaware I had

Lyme disease in 1994, but accidentally did the right things to put myself in

remission. I used to work out every day on a treadmill for one hour and my

clothes would be wringing wet when I finished my workout. I believe this was

very

effective in overcoming the bacteria at that time.

Sorry to hear of your accident and glad it was no worse than you related.

Hope you were not burned too severely!!

All my best wishes!

Sidney

[Guest guest]

Ammonia and bleach cannot be mixed--maybe that was the problem?

> Judie

>

> Curious why the pool helps them better. Is it exercise?

>

>

> [ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

>

>

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I haven't posted in a long time, but have been a member of this

group for

> > over a year now. My 16-year-old son has had Lyme since July of

1998 and

> has been

> > very, very sick.

> >

> > Yesterday, I was stirring up chlorine granules to open our

swimming pool.

> > Long story short, because my hubby and daughter were using the

hose to do

> another

> > pool opening chore, and because I had run out of the type of pool

> treatment

> > that can be just added to the water, I came in the house to

dissolve the

> > granules in a pitcher. I had done two pitchers without

incident...when I

> stirred up

> > the third and last one, it literally blew up. It was almost like

lava --

> it

> > just kept popping and foaming and it was horrid. (My hunch is

that perhaps

> the

> > water was too warm or the granules too old...I don't really know.)

> >

> > My son was lying on the couch in the adjacent room -- I hollered

to him to

> > cover his nose and mouth and get out the front door so he

wouldn't have to

> come

> > near me. I was burned on my arms and legs and face (luckily,

somehow, it

> > didn't get in my eyes or I would have been blinded). I ran to the

pool and

> stuck my

> > arms in the water, then my legs. I was having trouble breathing

and

> > immediately felt nauseous.

> >

> > Four rescue squads came here and they immediately started an I.V.

on my

> son

> > and then me, plus put oxygen on all four of us, then transported

all of us

> to

> > the hospital.

> >

> > The reason I am writing this to you all is this: my son seemed

better

> > (instead of worse, as I horridly expected....I was feeling so, so

guilty

> for putting

> > him through this trauma!) last night than he has for weeks on

end. Is this

> > because of the oxygen? The saline drip? While at the hospital, he

had a

> sharp

> > pain in his stomach and went to the bathroom. He said he had a

b.m. that

> was very

> > green and reeked of chlorine but he immediately felt better after

passing

> it.

> > Maybe I have accidentally found a new neuro-toxin flush? Just

kidding....

> >

> > Anyone out there had experience with oxygen making them feel

better? If

> so,

> > should we all be begging for it? A fellow Lymie friend told me to

expect

> my son

> > to have a herx, as her daughter had huge herxes after hyperbaric

oxygen

> > therapy.

> >

> > Let me tell you this: I have learned a valuable lesson -- never,

ever will

> > any pool chemicals be brought in to this house for ANY reason.

Yikes. I

> feel so

> > incredibly bad about this. We put in the pool because my children

both had

> > been diagnosed as having juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (yeah,

right...it

> was Lyme

> > all along) about 4 years ago, and the swimming really does help

them both

> to

> > feel better.

> >

> > Hope you all are hanging in there and hopefully enjoying this

Memorial

> Day....

> >

> > ~Judie

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't know about other, but I do know, that whenever I was on oxygen I felt

better. You wish I could be put on one all the time were at least until

treatment is finished.

[ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

Anyone out there had experience with oxygen making them feel better? If so,

should we all be begging for it? A fellow Lymie friend told me to expect my

son

to have a herx, as her daughter had huge herxes after hyperbaric oxygen

therapy.

[Guest guest]

This conversation has got me wondering.

While I've heard of people using hyperbaric treatments for Lyme, I'm

wondering if just plain oxygent that you breathe from those tanks would

help? Is this what you all had in the hospital treating the chemical

poisoning, breathing in oxygen?

Thanks,

Bluesky

> I don't know about other, but I do know, that whenever I was on oxygen I felt

> better. You wish I could be put on one all the time were at least until

> treatment is finished.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: GoodLittleDobee@...

>> Anyone out there had experience with oxygen making them feel better? If so,

> should we all be begging for it? A fellow Lymie friend told me to expect my

> son

> to have a herx, as her daughter had huge herxes after hyperbaric oxygen

> therapy.

[Guest guest]

Judie

Curious why the pool helps them better. Is it exercise?

[ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

> Hi everyone,

>

> I haven't posted in a long time, but have been a member of this group for

> over a year now. My 16-year-old son has had Lyme since July of 1998 and

has been

> very, very sick.

>

> Yesterday, I was stirring up chlorine granules to open our swimming pool.

> Long story short, because my hubby and daughter were using the hose to do

another

> pool opening chore, and because I had run out of the type of pool

treatment

> that can be just added to the water, I came in the house to dissolve the

> granules in a pitcher. I had done two pitchers without incident...when I

stirred up

> the third and last one, it literally blew up. It was almost like lava --

it

> just kept popping and foaming and it was horrid. (My hunch is that perhaps

the

> water was too warm or the granules too old...I don't really know.)

>

> My son was lying on the couch in the adjacent room -- I hollered to him to

> cover his nose and mouth and get out the front door so he wouldn't have to

come

> near me. I was burned on my arms and legs and face (luckily, somehow, it

> didn't get in my eyes or I would have been blinded). I ran to the pool and

stuck my

> arms in the water, then my legs. I was having trouble breathing and

> immediately felt nauseous.

>

> Four rescue squads came here and they immediately started an I.V. on my

son

> and then me, plus put oxygen on all four of us, then transported all of us

to

> the hospital.

>

> The reason I am writing this to you all is this: my son seemed better

> (instead of worse, as I horridly expected....I was feeling so, so guilty

for putting

> him through this trauma!) last night than he has for weeks on end. Is this

> because of the oxygen? The saline drip? While at the hospital, he had a

sharp

> pain in his stomach and went to the bathroom. He said he had a b.m. that

was very

> green and reeked of chlorine but he immediately felt better after passing

it.

> Maybe I have accidentally found a new neuro-toxin flush? Just kidding....

>

> Anyone out there had experience with oxygen making them feel better? If

so,

> should we all be begging for it? A fellow Lymie friend told me to expect

my son

> to have a herx, as her daughter had huge herxes after hyperbaric oxygen

> therapy.

>

> Let me tell you this: I have learned a valuable lesson -- never, ever will

> any pool chemicals be brought in to this house for ANY reason. Yikes. I

feel so

> incredibly bad about this. We put in the pool because my children both had

> been diagnosed as having juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (yeah, right...it

was Lyme

> all along) about 4 years ago, and the swimming really does help them both

to

> feel better.

>

> Hope you all are hanging in there and hopefully enjoying this Memorial

Day....

>

> ~Judie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Judie-

HOW HORRIBLE!!!! I am so sorry to hear about your horrible incident!!!!

Anything I can do to help? How are you doing???????

I can send you some wonderful stuff for burns if that is the case (it is my

gift as well).

Oxygen and internal heat are the TWO BEST THINGS a lymie can experience

because it is what the spirochetes HATE!!!! (I was in the ER 2 nights ago w/ my

17yr old daughter whom gashed her head open with the car door, 6 stitches

later....--anyway, I was using the oxygen while there!!!) EVERYBODY is oxygen

deficient, lymie or not.

Exercise, an oxygen tank from your local volunteer fire/first aid, hot tubs,

hyperbaric O2, etc. are all good.

Please let me know if I can help in any way....

sue in nj

sue massie

[Guest guest]

Oxygen is often helpful for people with mycoplasma bacteria which grow in

low-oxygen environments. I would not be surprised if lyme was the same. People

with mycoplasma also feel crummier when they fly in airplanes due to the lack of

oxygen. Is this true of lymies? People wth CFS also have low blood volume and

saline drips make them feel better. I don't know if this is true of lyme.

Thanks,

Doris

[Guest guest]

Supposedly Lyme thrives in an anaerobic environment, so increasing oxygen

levels seems like it would help control it. However, there is a problem with

using oxygen on a regular basis. The body controls oxygen levels in the

blood by increasing or decreasing the chemical 2,3 DPG. When there is

abundant oxygen, the body produces less 2,3 DPG, and the red blood cells are

not able to transport and release as much oxygen. But with abundant oxygen,

it doesn't need to be as frugal with it, so it lets the levels of 2,3 DPG

drop. When oxygen levels are diminished, the body produces more 2,3 DPG, and

the red blood cells are able to transport and release more oxygen. This is

how the body compensates for less oxygen. People who live in high altitudes

have more 2,3 DPG than people who live by the ocean, because there is more

oxygen at lower altitudes.

The problem with Lyme is that it alters the oxygen levels in the body, and

maintains a lower oxygen level, with decreased levels of 2,3 DPG, possibly

by producing chemicals that create blockages in the krebs cycle, decreasing

the production of carbon dioxide. The decreased levels of 2,3 DPG keep the

oxygen transporting abilities of the body low so that the Lyme can thrive.

When you use oxygen over time to counteract the anaerobic levels, the body

will drop the level of 2,3 DPG even more, decreasing the transport and

release of oxygen, and eventually the use of supplemental oxygen will not be

sufficient to control the Lyme. In the mean time, you'll become dependent

upon supplemental oxygen in order to breath, and continue driving down your

2,3 DPG levels. This is probably one reason why doctors would be reluctant

to prescribe supplemental oxygen on a regular basis. You might be able to

use a rebreather mask to increase both oxygen and carbon dioxide, but it

gets kind of tricky to do.

You can increase levels of 2,3 DPG by doing breathing exercises that

concentrate carbon dioxide in the blood. Increased carbon dioxide in the

blood does several things. It increases the levels of 2,3 DPG over time, It

also acidifies the blood, allowing the blood to carry more oxygen. And when

oxygen transport is increased, cells produce more carbon dioxide, increasing

the cycle. But it takes time to help change the anaerobic body using the

breathing methods, and at first they might actually make a person feel

worse.

One source of this type of breathing is an Wiel method of breathing.

My naturopath told me about another kind called something like Bytanco, or

something like that, which is used for people with asthma, but I can't

remember the exact name. The object of the breathing is to increase carbon

dioxide levels in the blood, for short periods of time, but slowly

increasing levels of 2,3 DPG in the blood over time so that the body becomes

more oxygenated. Doing the breathing exercises several times a day brings

about improvement in oxygen levels over several weeks. The advantages are

that it is free, doesn't require a lot of energy output for people who

suffer with a lot of fatigue, doesn't require a doctor's prescription, and

doesn't make a person dependent upon supplemental oxygen.

In a way, exercise does the same thing for normal/healthy people. When you

work out hard enough to get out of breath, you are using up the oxygen in

your body, and increasing output of carbon dioxide. Over time it drives up

the levels of 2,3 DPG, decreasing the anaerobic environment of the body.

This is one reason why exercise helps most people to increase their energy

levels. The downside is that if there are blockages in the krebs cycle,

exercise will actually cause more pH problems in the body, causing the body

to counteract by making the blood even more alkaline, which decreases oxygen

release from the red blood cells. I think this is why exercise can make some

people feel worse, rather than better over time.

lindaj@...

Re: [ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

> This conversation has got me wondering.

>

> While I've heard of people using hyperbaric treatments for Lyme, I'm

> wondering if just plain oxygent that you breathe from those tanks would

> help? Is this what you all had in the hospital treating the chemical

> poisoning, breathing in oxygen?

>

> Thanks,

> Bluesky

[Guest guest]

Well, don't mix them in the house is probably a good idea - but what went wrong

is much more likely to have to do with what you mixed.

To begin with, you can't mix many chemicals with products that contain sodium

hypochlorite. Such chemicals include acids, and ammonia.

You could have made chlorine gas, which would have had an extremely strong,

pungent odor, or you might have made an invisible, odorless nerve gas.

If you ended up with chemical burns, you must have used or made a strong acid or

alkali.

What specific chemicals did you mix?

What specific chemicals would you be likely to ahve mixed if you accidently put

in a wrong ingredient? Ie, what chemicals did you have on the counter?

Sometimes a problem can result from a problem with exactly what procedure you

follow when you mix two chemicals. I don't know how it would be a problem with

pool chemicals, but I might not know. If the instructions say, for instance,

to combine chemicals in a certain order, like, add the chemical to the water, or

add a little bit and then add more, this can be a clue that if you did it

differently, you could generate alot of heat and get an explosion.

It isn't clear from what you said that the explosion resulted from heat, though.

Production of enough gas, quickly enough, could have acted like an explosion.

Yours,

Dora

[ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in a long time, but have been a member of this group for

over a year now. My 16-year-old son has had Lyme since July of 1998 and has

been

very, very sick.

Yesterday, I was stirring up chlorine granules to open our swimming pool.

Long story short, because my hubby and daughter were using the hose to do

another

pool opening chore, and because I had run out of the type of pool treatment

that can be just added to the water, I came in the house to dissolve the

granules in a pitcher. I had done two pitchers without incident...when I

stirred up

the third and last one, it literally blew up. It was almost like lava -- it

just kept popping and foaming and it was horrid. (My hunch is that perhaps the

water was too warm or the granules too old...I don't really know.)

My son was lying on the couch in the adjacent room -- I hollered to him to

cover his nose and mouth and get out the front door so he wouldn't have to

come

near me. I was burned on my arms and legs and face (luckily, somehow, it

didn't get in my eyes or I would have been blinded). I ran to the pool and

stuck my

arms in the water, then my legs. I was having trouble breathing and

immediately felt nauseous.

Four rescue squads came here and they immediately started an I.V. on my son

and then me, plus put oxygen on all four of us, then transported all of us to

the hospital.

The reason I am writing this to you all is this: my son seemed better

(instead of worse, as I horridly expected....I was feeling so, so guilty for

putting

him through this trauma!) last night than he has for weeks on end. Is this

because of the oxygen? The saline drip? While at the hospital, he had a sharp

pain in his stomach and went to the bathroom. He said he had a b.m. that was

very

green and reeked of chlorine but he immediately felt better after passing it.

Maybe I have accidentally found a new neuro-toxin flush? Just kidding....

Anyone out there had experience with oxygen making them feel better? If so,

should we all be begging for it? A fellow Lymie friend told me to expect my

son

to have a herx, as her daughter had huge herxes after hyperbaric oxygen

therapy.

Let me tell you this: I have learned a valuable lesson -- never, ever will

any pool chemicals be brought in to this house for ANY reason. Yikes. I feel

so

incredibly bad about this. We put in the pool because my children both had

been diagnosed as having juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (yeah, right...it was

Lyme

all along) about 4 years ago, and the swimming really does help them both to

feel better.

Hope you all are hanging in there and hopefully enjoying this Memorial Day....

~Judie

[Guest guest]

I think that's for carbon monoxide poisoning.

Re: [ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

This conversation has got me wondering.

While I've heard of people using hyperbaric treatments for Lyme, I'm

wondering if just plain oxygent that you breathe from those tanks would

help? Is this what you all had in the hospital treating the chemical

poisoning, breathing in oxygen?

Thanks,

Bluesky

> I don't know about other, but I do know, that whenever I was on oxygen I

felt

> better. You wish I could be put on one all the time were at least until

> treatment is finished.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: GoodLittleDobee@...

>> Anyone out there had experience with oxygen making them feel better? If so,

> should we all be begging for it? A fellow Lymie friend told me to expect my

> son

> to have a herx, as her daughter had huge herxes after hyperbaric oxygen

> therapy.

[Guest guest]

This is so bizarrely interesting, I printed it out but can't decide

what to make of the whole theory. Why would hyperbaric oxygen help

so much in lyme? It is also interesting because i've heard of people

who say that exercise cured their lyme--or kept it at bay. But when

I tried, early on, to " exercise " it away I got really sick. But

hyperbaric helped me.

> Supposedly Lyme thrives in an anaerobic environment, so increasing

oxygen

> levels seems like it would help control it. However, there is a

problem with

> using oxygen on a regular basis. The body controls oxygen levels in

the

> blood by increasing or decreasing the chemical 2,3 DPG. When there

is

> abundant oxygen, the body produces less 2,3 DPG, and the red blood

cells are

> not able to transport and release as much oxygen. But with abundant

oxygen,

> it doesn't need to be as frugal with it, so it lets the levels of

2,3 DPG

> drop. When oxygen levels are diminished, the body produces more 2,3

DPG, and

> the red blood cells are able to transport and release more oxygen.

This is

> how the body compensates for less oxygen. People who live in high

altitudes

> have more 2,3 DPG than people who live by the ocean, because there

is more

> oxygen at lower altitudes.

>

> The problem with Lyme is that it alters the oxygen levels in the

body, and

> maintains a lower oxygen level, with decreased levels of 2,3 DPG,

possibly

> by producing chemicals that create blockages in the krebs cycle,

decreasing

> the production of carbon dioxide. The decreased levels of 2,3 DPG

keep the

> oxygen transporting abilities of the body low so that the Lyme can

thrive.

> When you use oxygen over time to counteract the anaerobic levels,

the body

> will drop the level of 2,3 DPG even more, decreasing the transport

and

> release of oxygen, and eventually the use of supplemental oxygen

will not be

> sufficient to control the Lyme. In the mean time, you'll become

dependent

> upon supplemental oxygen in order to breath, and continue driving

down your

> 2,3 DPG levels. This is probably one reason why doctors would be

reluctant

> to prescribe supplemental oxygen on a regular basis. You might be

able to

> use a rebreather mask to increase both oxygen and carbon dioxide,

but it

> gets kind of tricky to do.

>

> You can increase levels of 2,3 DPG by doing breathing exercises that

> concentrate carbon dioxide in the blood. Increased carbon dioxide

in the

> blood does several things. It increases the levels of 2,3 DPG over

time, It

> also acidifies the blood, allowing the blood to carry more oxygen.

And when

> oxygen transport is increased, cells produce more carbon dioxide,

increasing

> the cycle. But it takes time to help change the anaerobic body

using the

> breathing methods, and at first they might actually make a person

feel

> worse.

>

> One source of this type of breathing is an Wiel method of

breathing.

> My naturopath told me about another kind called something like

Bytanco, or

> something like that, which is used for people with asthma, but I

can't

> remember the exact name. The object of the breathing is to increase

carbon

> dioxide levels in the blood, for short periods of time, but slowly

> increasing levels of 2,3 DPG in the blood over time so that the

body becomes

> more oxygenated. Doing the breathing exercises several times a day

brings

> about improvement in oxygen levels over several weeks. The

advantages are

> that it is free, doesn't require a lot of energy output for people

who

> suffer with a lot of fatigue, doesn't require a doctor's

prescription, and

> doesn't make a person dependent upon supplemental oxygen.

>

> In a way, exercise does the same thing for normal/healthy people.

When you

> work out hard enough to get out of breath, you are using up the

oxygen in

> your body, and increasing output of carbon dioxide. Over time it

drives up

> the levels of 2,3 DPG, decreasing the anaerobic environment of the

body.

> This is one reason why exercise helps most people to increase their

energy

> levels. The downside is that if there are blockages in the krebs

cycle,

> exercise will actually cause more pH problems in the body, causing

the body

> to counteract by making the blood even more alkaline, which

decreases oxygen

> release from the red blood cells. I think this is why exercise can

make some

> people feel worse, rather than better over time.

>

>

> lindaj@h...

>

> Re: [ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

>

>

> > This conversation has got me wondering.

> >

> > While I've heard of people using hyperbaric treatments for Lyme,

I'm

> > wondering if just plain oxygent that you breathe from those tanks

would

> > help? Is this what you all had in the hospital treating the

chemical

> > poisoning, breathing in oxygen?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Bluesky

[Guest guest]

I decided to shut up about dysautonomia, because it turned out that some

symptoms that can be dysautonomia, like rapid or irregular hearbeats, are

actually the lyme bacteria themselves.

But there is such a problem, and neurological lyme upsets everything else in the

nervous system, it could easily interfere with its ability to regulate itself,

which is essentially what dysautonomia is. Symptoms can be vague; they can

also include chronic fatigue syndrome. They include irritable bowel syndrome,

spastic bladder, asthma, irregular heartbeats, migraines, orthostatic low blood

pressure, anxiety and depression.

Problem has been found to respond to ideas as goofy as plenty of exercise and

drinking alot of fluid - and a good diet and enough sleep. This will not, of

course, cure a disease - but if dysautonomia is part of advanced lyme, it may

help that group of symptoms.

One thing, though, just making sure noone has lost track - I really don't think

oxygen levels in her bloodstream had much to do with the pool chemical incident.

She mixed some chemicals that shouldn't have gone together, and got both burned,

and poisoned. They gave her oxygen because she couldn't breathe!

Yours,

Dora

[ ] dangerous chemical incident/oxygen treatment

There is a guy by the name of Bell who is a CFS doctor in NY

state. He was advocating the idea of low blood level causing some of

the symptoms, including orthostatic intolerance. He was actually

using IV saline drips to boost blood volume and relieve symptoms

temporarily. Since many of his patients probably have lyme, in spite

of his claim to the contrary, it's probably true of us as well. I

use gookinaid, now known as electralyte. It is an electrolyte

replacement drink used for the same purpose. It comes in a powdered

form in big cans and isn't junky and sweet like gatorade etc... It

only has a little bit of glucose to help rapid absorbtion. The

makers claim that it will absorb within minutes on an empty stomach

and boost blood volume. I can't say that I'm sure it helped me much

when I was really sick, but I got hooked on the stuff and still use

it. If I take a sauna, or sweat a lot, or even if it's just a real

hot day I drink it. Anyhow, theres some thing to mull over.

Chlorine is nasty stuff, and it's forcefed to us in municipal water

supplies. Better cleaner options are available, but I guess it's

more important to have enough nukes to blow up the world 100 times

over. Actually, with the privatization of water infrastructures,

quality is likely to go down, and prices up. You might want to look

into ozone water treatment.

E.

>The reason I am writing this to you all is this: my son seemed better

>(instead of worse, as I horridly expected....I was feeling so, so

>guilty for putting

>him through this trauma!) last night than he has for weeks on end. Is this

>because of the oxygen? The saline drip? While at the hospital, he had a sharp

>pain in his stomach and went to the bathroom. He said he had a b.m.

>that was very

>green and reeked of chlorine but he immediately felt better after passing it.

>Maybe I have accidentally found a new neuro-toxin flush? Just kidding....