Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Am I the only one who thinks it's not just Lyme organisms? They admit they haven't analyzed everything in a tick's bite. Who knows what kinds of and combinations of slow-working problem organisms infiltrate the body, not just from tick bites but from mosquito bites and even cuts and scrapes. So far medical science has focused on things that cause problems rapidly after they arrive. I don't think much science has been done on things that wear down the body's defenses and take years to reach problem levels. The great thing about the herbs is that they're nonspecific. You don't have to know what you're killing as long as you feel better. > > > > Chris: > > > > I am with you. It seems that the antibiotics are attacking the bacteria and thus if its hiding in our tissues it would make sense that we would have pain there. I wish some great brilliant doctor would figure this out. I really find my discouragement comes from not only being sick but the varying information out there (ie for example you read one thing and than turn around something else contradicts what you just read!) > > yes, I mostly agree. But keep in mind that you can have similar pain when not using antibiotics; I doubt this is because the immune system is killing Bb on its own, like what happens with ABX. > > IMHO it is more likely that activity of Bb in the tissues is causing part of the immune system, mostly the innate immune system, to be activated which causes the typical flue-like reactions like inflammation. Bb also activates stuff like metalloproteinases that break down your own tissue, which also causes pain and more immune reactions. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 > > Am I the only one who thinks it's not just Lyme organisms? They admit they haven't analyzed everything in a tick's bite. Who knows what kinds of and combinations of slow-working problem organisms infiltrate the body, not just from tick bites but from mosquito bites and even cuts and scrapes. yes, fully agree with you. I don't agree with the official definition that Lyme disease is a Borrelia (Bb sl) infection. It is usually a tick byte disease, but maybe the real problem is not Borrelia but something else that we don't know about yet (we don't have hard evidence that Borrelia itself is dangerous and causing all these problems, the evidence is indirect at best). It could be that the real problem is a special Bb form like the 'granules' which are very difficult to track with current technology. Or maybe just a very specific strain of Bb (or coinfection) that is causing persistent and really harmful infections. Maybe Bb infection is not the cause but just an indicator of a weak immune system, an indicator that one usually aquires through a tick byte. A recent article mentions that many mosquitos carry Borrelia spirochetes, but almost all of them were NOT from the Bb variety, and probably many of them are currently unknown strains/species (so they would problably be missed completely by most current Lyme tests). so yes, maybe there are other vectors form Lyme disease (or very similar diseases) that we don't know about. > So far medical science has focused on things that cause problems rapidly after they arrive. I don't think much science has been done on things that wear down the body's defenses and take years to reach problem levels. one of the interesting observations from Lyme blood microscopy (usually done with blood from chronic lymies) is that many of these patients have the same structures in their blood. Some think they are spirochetes (but usually they don't react with fluorescent anti-Bb antibodies etc.), others think they are chains of micrococci or even dead material. Then there is the frequent observation of Bartonella-like organism in those who have been seriously ill for some time. These lifeforms are often found despite longterm ABX therapy, and if they disappear at all during treatment it takes a really long time. It would be good to know what these organism are and if they are causing the trouble, or if they are just an 'opportunistic infection'. I don't think we have any lifeform that has a 1:1 match to lyme disease symptoms (e.g. there are aymptomatic Bb infections, and there are people with all the symptoms where Bb could not be found with any of the current tests). > The great thing about the herbs is that they're nonspecific. You don't have to know what you're killing as long as you feel better. yes, one of the nice things of Chinese herbs is that they look at the symptoms to decide on treatment, no need to know the actual microorganism. This is based on experience so it could be wrong, but it seems a better bet than using ABX against an unknown lifeform. Of course, there may be microorganisms that are not affected by any of the Buhner herbs so in this case one would be treating the symptoms at best (and not the disease itself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I think that it is a combination of the organisms and each person's genetics and environment which is why no two people are exactly alike. (Most traditional medicine has in the past treated illness with a cookie cutter where everyone was given the same treatment. More recently the health care profession is looking at genetics' role in cancer and other illnesses but still a long way to go.) Some people don't detox well - this can be genetically tested. Some people don't have a strong immune system. Some people have other underlying issues (allergies, diabetes, low thyroid, high cholesterol, etc.). A comprehensive approach of killing, detoxing, healthy diet and exercise will go a long way to rebuilding the body's homeostatis (balance) and immune system to battle whatever illness comes along, whether it's a bug introduced by a cut, bite, kiss, sneeze, etc. Once the symptoms of Lyme developed, it took many months of supplements to rebuild my magnesium and D3 levels and I'm still trying to figure out thyroid and adrenals. You also have to look at the environment you live and work in. One of my Lyme friends is extremely ill and I am sure it's because of the black mold growing on the walls in her basement - a real hindrance to her immune system. With respect to diet, I have gone gluten free due to Lyme. For me, gluten brings on leaky gut syndrome leading to an allergic type response and resulting inflammation. Bottom line is that nothing we do is isolated. It all adds to the picture and that's why everyone is different. The overall picture is as important as the killing protocol. deb > > > > Am I the only one who thinks it's not just Lyme organisms? They admit they haven't analyzed everything in a tick's bite. Who knows what kinds of and combinations of slow-working problem organisms infiltrate the body, not just from tick bites but from mosquito bites and even cuts and scrapes. > > yes, fully agree with you. > > I don't agree with the official definition that Lyme disease is a Borrelia (Bb sl) infection. It is usually a tick byte disease, but maybe the real problem is not Borrelia but something else that we don't know about yet (we don't have hard evidence that Borrelia itself is dangerous and causing all these problems, the evidence is indirect at best). > > It could be that the real problem is a special Bb form like the 'granules' which are very difficult to track with current technology. Or maybe just a very specific strain of Bb (or coinfection) that is causing persistent and really harmful infections. > > Maybe Bb infection is not the cause but just an indicator of a weak immune system, an indicator that one usually aquires through a tick byte. A recent article mentions that many mosquitos carry Borrelia spirochetes, but almost all of them were NOT from the Bb variety, and probably many of them are currently unknown strains/species (so they would problably be missed completely by most current Lyme tests). > > so yes, maybe there are other vectors form Lyme disease (or very similar diseases) that we don't know about. > > > So far medical science has focused on things that cause problems rapidly after they arrive. I don't think much science has been done on things that wear down the body's defenses and take years to reach problem levels. > > one of the interesting observations from Lyme blood microscopy (usually done with blood from chronic lymies) is that many of these patients have the same structures in their blood. Some think they are spirochetes (but usually they don't react with fluorescent anti-Bb antibodies etc.), others think they are chains of micrococci or even dead material. > > Then there is the frequent observation of Bartonella-like organism in those who have been seriously ill for some time. These lifeforms are often found despite longterm ABX therapy, and if they disappear at all during treatment it takes a really long time. It would be good to know what these organism are and if they are causing the trouble, or if they are just an 'opportunistic infection'. > > I don't think we have any lifeform that has a 1:1 match to lyme disease symptoms (e.g. there are aymptomatic Bb infections, and there are people with all the symptoms where Bb could not be found with any of the current tests). > > > The great thing about the herbs is that they're nonspecific. You don't have to know what you're killing as long as you feel better. > > > yes, one of the nice things of Chinese herbs is that they look at the symptoms to decide on treatment, no need to know the actual microorganism. This is based on experience so it could be wrong, but it seems a better bet than using ABX against an unknown lifeform. > > Of course, there may be microorganisms that are not affected by any of the Buhner herbs so in this case one would be treating the symptoms at best (and not the disease itself). > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 > > I think that it is a combination of the organisms and each person's genetics and environment which is why no two people are exactly alike. yes, agree. This is similar to the conclusion in the book about autoimmune diseases. Too bad that the most of the normal medical community is oblivious to this, and that you have to go to alternative docs (or people completely outside the medical field) for advice. I agree about the genetic factor, but it seems a relatively weak factor compared to the other once. And with the current knowledge, genetic testing says very little anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 One of my fellow Lyme friends says she has poor detox due to genetics. That is one component of how genetics plays a role in our overall health. > > > > I think that it is a combination of the organisms and each person's genetics and environment which is why no two people are exactly alike. > > yes, agree. This is similar to the conclusion in the book about autoimmune diseases. Too bad that the most of the normal medical community is oblivious to this, and that you have to go to alternative docs (or people completely outside the medical field) for advice. > > I agree about the genetic factor, but it seems a relatively weak factor compared to the other once. And with the current knowledge, genetic testing says very little anyway. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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