Re: Quick! Help! 3yo with tick! Update

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't able to read this on the website or in my

email till this morning for some reason. The head is still in and we are taking

her to urgent care this morning. We talked to our on call ped and she of course

said we didn't need to worry unless there was a bull's eye rash. The problem is

yesterday after removing the tick she got extremely lethargic that afternoon. I

thought she just needed a nap because she'd acted tired the last couple of

afternoons when she doesn't normally nap. This was extreme though because she

mostly didn't want to bother talking even. Then the fever hit enough that she

felt hot and we noticed. Motrin helps briefly.

I am worried about possible Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. I have no idea how

long the tick was on her. She's spiked a high fever and is miserable. I am just

worried they won't give her the proper abx. We live in the right location and

time of year for this but I sure as heck hope the fever is only a fluke and not

tick related but I still want her to get abx just in case. But it seems if you

want abx they no longer hand them out like candy.

Marcella

[Guest guest]

Could you possibly find a lyme friendly doc to take her to instead of her normal

Ped? Obviously that doc is not going to do the right thing.

Doxycycline is not usually given to young children for Lyme. They give

Amoxicillin for children under the age of 8 years old. If she is allergic, then

they use Zithromax. Just wanted to let you know. Number of days depends on the

antibiotic given & severity of infection.

I would INSIST on antibiotics & don't give up until you find a doc that will

give them. Problems can manifest themselves years down the line as I am sure

you already know.

You may also want to take a pic of the tick, and the bite for future reference.

I am assuming you saved the tick to submit for testing?

-Sonya

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed

[ ] Re: Quick! Help! 3yo with tick! Update

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't able to read this on the website or in my

email till this morning for some reason. The head is still in and we are taking

her to urgent care this morning. We talked to our on call ped and she of course

said we didn't need to worry unless there was a bull's eye rash. The problem is

yesterday after removing the tick she got extremely lethargic that afternoon. I

thought she just needed a nap because she'd acted tired the last couple of

afternoons when she doesn't normally nap. This was extreme though because she

mostly didn't want to bother talking even. Then the fever hit enough that she

felt hot and we noticed. Motrin helps briefly.

I am worried about possible Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. I have no idea how

long the tick was on her. She's spiked a high fever and is miserable. I am just

worried they won't give her the proper abx. We live in the right location and

time of year for this but I sure as heck hope the fever is only a fluke and not

tick related but I still want her to get abx just in case. But it seems if you

want abx they no longer hand them out like candy.

Marcella

[Guest guest]

Wrong. Only 20-30% get a bull's eye rash. 70-80% do not. What's the list of the

tick-borne infections that can cause initial fever? Lyme, ehrlichia, RMSF? Are

there others that can present with fever? It'd be good to know the general abx

that works for all of them initially. Can you take her to a Lyme-treating

doctor? If you need referrals, you can get them at

www.lymenet.org/flashdiscussion/seekingadoctor - Robin

[ ] Re: Quick! Help! 3yo with tick! Update

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't able to read this on the website or in my

email till this morning for some reason. The head is still in and we are taking

her to urgent care this morning. We talked to our on call ped and she of course

said we didn't need to worry unless there was a bull's eye rash. The problem is

yesterday after removing the tick she got extremely lethargic that afternoon. I

thought she just needed a nap because she'd acted tired the last couple of

afternoons when she doesn't normally nap. This was extreme though because she

mostly didn't want to bother talking even. Then the fever hit enough that she

felt hot and we noticed. Motrin helps briefly.

I am worried about possible Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. I have no idea how

long the tick was on her. She's spiked a high fever and is miserable. I am just

worried they won't give her the proper abx. We live in the right location and

time of year for this but I sure as heck hope the fever is only a fluke and not

tick related but I still want her to get abx just in case. But it seems if you

want abx they no longer hand them out like candy.

Marcella

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Wrong. Only 20-30% get a bull's eye rash. 70-80% do not.

the trouble is that the official documents state that over 90% of those infected

get the rash. I agree that this is nonsense, but the actual percentage is

unknown. The 90-100% for sure is the result of circular reasoning ('if there is

no rash, it cannot be lyme disease').

In Europe the estimate from patient groups is that about 50% of patients who are

infected (proven with serology!) get the rash. Older European studies from the

seventies/eighties say 35-50%, in the nineties this suddenly jumps to about 90%

(without a doubt because of the US publications from the IDSA clan). Current

European government guidelines claim that anywhere from 70% to over 90% get the

rash, depending on which paper you believe ...

[Guest guest]

I wonder whether the rash presentation varies by geographical area. Certainly

here in the states, not that many get it. What about in Europe? Do you think

more present that way? - Robin

[ ] Re: Quick! Help! 3yo with tick! Update

>

>

> Wrong. Only 20-30% get a bull's eye rash. 70-80% do not.

the trouble is that the official documents state that over 90% of those infected

get the rash. I agree that this is nonsense, but the actual percentage is

unknown. The 90-100% for sure is the result of circular reasoning ('if there is

no rash, it cannot be lyme disease').

In Europe the estimate from patient groups is that about 50% of patients who are

infected (proven with serology!) get the rash. Older European studies from the

seventies/eighties say 35-50%, in the nineties this suddenly jumps to about 90%

(without a doubt because of the US publications from the IDSA clan). Current

European government guidelines claim that anywhere from 70% to over 90% get the

rash, depending on which paper you believe ...

[Guest guest]

You might want to take her to the nearest best pediatric hospital. My daughter

had Rocky Mtn. Sp. Fever that was almost missed because she was taking

antibiotics for fever (105), just not the right ones. She ended up in ICU for

10 days. Don't delay, press on til you find an infectious disease

doctor/hospital that takes you seriously. My daughter only had a 50/50 chance

by the time she reached the ICU. Happily all ended well, but she was lucky, saw

a case while she was there of a boy in which he was brain damaged after 24 hours

of fever.

all the best,

>

>

>

> Thanks for the replies. I wasn't able to read this on the website or in my

email till this morning for some reason. The head is still in and we are taking

her to urgent care this morning. We talked to our on call ped and she of course

said we didn't need to worry unless there was a bull's eye rash. The problem is

yesterday after removing the tick she got extremely lethargic that afternoon. I

thought she just needed a nap because she'd acted tired the last couple of

afternoons when she doesn't normally nap. This was extreme though because she

mostly didn't want to bother talking even. Then the fever hit enough that she

felt hot and we noticed. Motrin helps briefly.

>

> I am worried about possible Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. I have no idea how

long the tick was on her. She's spiked a high fever and is miserable. I am just

worried they won't give her the proper abx. We live in the right location and

time of year for this but I sure as heck hope the fever is only a fluke and not

tick related but I still want her to get abx just in case. But it seems if you

want abx they no longer hand them out like candy.

>

> Marcella

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I wonder whether the rash presentation varies by geographical area. Certainly

here in the states, not that many get it. What about in Europe? Do you think

more present that way? - Robin

I think it varies by Bb strain, maybe even depends on certain plasmids that are

(not) present. As those vary by region, it is likely that the rash % varies

between US (mostly B. burgdoferi) and Europe (mostly B. afzelii, B. garinii en

some other species).