Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Cher Philippe, Please tell me about this forbidden interaction--- since i am taking zithromax (macrolide) and also coptis (berberine)!! Thanks, merci, ---purpleffoxglove From: sciucca1 <peretti@...> Subject: [ ] Herbs + antibiotics Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:58 AM Â Hi, my name is philippe, I'm new on the forum. Had a tick bite in France long ago. I know that some antibiotics can not be used with some herbs, for instance berberine (found in coptis) is not to be used with macrolides. So it will be nice if can have a discussion about all the interactions. Also, I would like to know who used allicin ? Philippe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 > Also, I would like to know who used allicin ? I started using fresh garlic some time ago (in addition to Buhner herbs, currently knotweed and eleuthero) after reading about research into the action of Allicin as a 'quorum quenching' agent. My gut is having some trouble with garlic (1 clove a day) though, cannot yet say if I see any real benefit. Allicin (one of the main components in garlic) is an interesting subject (just wrote an article about it, but it's in Dutch ...): Some bacteria (especially pathogenic ones) communicate with a chemical language called quorum sensing (QS). Bb has all the machinery to use this language (actual use of SQ is unproven, but quite likely), a kind of bacterial Esperanto. Bacteria use QS to sense how much of them are present and coordinate their actions, e.g. when producing toxins, suppressing the innate immune system of the host, building biofilms, possibly when switching to alternate lifeforms etc. QS makes them work like a multicellular organism that is far more powerful than a single bacterial cell (compare a lowly ant vs. an ant army). There are chemical products, mostly from plants, that can disturb quorum sensing ('quorum quenching') or modify it for symbiotic action. Allicin is such a quorum quenching agent which explains why it helps to fight bacterial infections (people have known this for ages). I think it is most likely to help in preventing biofilm buildup, but probably it could also increase the action of ABX or herbs against biofilms. Biofilm is one of the tough problems in Lyme and many other infectuous diseases. In these films (protected colonies) bacteria have far higher ABX resistance, sometimes more than a factor 1000. As a result you cannot 'kill' these biofilm bacteria with normal ABX. QS is a rapidly growing research field, I guess that some more plant chemicals will turn up in the next years that can block or modify QS to our advantage. It could be an alternative for ABX, with potentially less side effects and low risk of the bacteria developing genetic resistance as with ABX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 I think lumbrokinase has been discussed before as to helping dissolve biofilm? > > > Also, I would like to know who used allicin ? > > I started using fresh garlic some time ago (in addition to Buhner herbs, currently knotweed and eleuthero) after reading about research into the action of Allicin as a 'quorum quenching' agent. My gut is having some trouble with garlic (1 clove a day) though, cannot yet say if I see any real benefit. > > Allicin (one of the main components in garlic) is an interesting subject (just wrote an article about it, but it's in Dutch ...): > > Some bacteria (especially pathogenic ones) communicate with a chemical language called quorum sensing (QS). Bb has all the machinery to use this language (actual use of SQ is unproven, but quite likely), a kind of bacterial Esperanto. Bacteria use QS to sense how much of them are present and coordinate their actions, e.g. when producing toxins, suppressing the innate immune system of the host, building biofilms, possibly when switching to alternate lifeforms etc. QS makes them work like a multicellular organism that is far more powerful than a single bacterial cell (compare a lowly ant vs. an ant army). > > There are chemical products, mostly from plants, that can disturb quorum sensing ('quorum quenching') or modify it for symbiotic action. Allicin is such a quorum quenching agent which explains why it helps to fight bacterial infections (people have known this for ages). I think it is most likely to help in preventing biofilm buildup, but probably it could also increase the action of ABX or herbs against biofilms. > > Biofilm is one of the tough problems in Lyme and many other infectuous diseases. In these films (protected colonies) bacteria have far higher ABX resistance, sometimes more than a factor 1000. As a result you cannot 'kill' these biofilm bacteria with normal ABX. > > QS is a rapidly growing research field, I guess that some more plant chemicals will turn up in the next years that can block or modify QS to our advantage. It could be an alternative for ABX, with potentially less side effects and low risk of the bacteria developing genetic resistance as with ABX. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 How can one get lumbrokinase? Do you need a MD prescription? [ ] Re: Herbs + antibiotics I think lumbrokinase has been discussed before as to helping dissolve biofilm? > > > Also, I would like to know who used allicin ? > > I started using fresh garlic some time ago (in addition to Buhner herbs, currently knotweed and eleuthero) after reading about research into the action of Allicin as a 'quorum quenching' agent. My gut is having some trouble with garlic (1 clove a day) though, cannot yet say if I see any real benefit. > > Allicin (one of the main components in garlic) is an interesting subject (just wrote an article about it, but it's in Dutch ...): > > Some bacteria (especially pathogenic ones) communicate with a chemical language called quorum sensing (QS). Bb has all the machinery to use this language (actual use of SQ is unproven, but quite likely), a kind of bacterial Esperanto. Bacteria use QS to sense how much of them are present and coordinate their actions, e.g. when producing toxins, suppressing the innate immune system of the host, building biofilms, possibly when switching to alternate lifeforms etc. QS makes them work like a multicellular organism that is far more powerful than a single bacterial cell (compare a lowly ant vs. an ant army). > > There are chemical products, mostly from plants, that can disturb quorum sensing ('quorum quenching') or modify it for symbiotic action. Allicin is such a quorum quenching agent which explains why it helps to fight bacterial infections (people have known this for ages). I think it is most likely to help in preventing biofilm buildup, but probably it could also increase the action of ABX or herbs against biofilms. > > Biofilm is one of the tough problems in Lyme and many other infectuous diseases. In these films (protected colonies) bacteria have far higher ABX resistance, sometimes more than a factor 1000. As a result you cannot 'kill' these biofilm bacteria with normal ABX. > > QS is a rapidly growing research field, I guess that some more plant chemicals will turn up in the next years that can block or modify QS to our advantage. It could be an alternative for ABX, with potentially less side effects and low risk of the bacteria developing genetic resistance as with ABX. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Google lumbrokinase (or Boulouke) and you'll see the stores that sell it (some sites only sell to natropaths). The other alternative is Nattokinase which is cheaper and pretty much does the same thing. lumbrokinase is actually made from earthworms, the nattokinase isn't. supposedly they make the blood thinner, thus helping abx's, etc. move thru your system, and it helps as a cyst buster. I bought my lumbrokinase on ebay, got 60 caps for about the price of 30 from the online stores. Take it before meals. I'm gonna switch to the Nattokinase and see if I see a difference. From: KTOvrutsky@... To: Date: 01/14/2010 02:12 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Herbs + antibiotics Sent by: How can one get lumbrokinase? Do you need a MD prescription? [ ] Re: Herbs + antibiotics I think lumbrokinase has been discussed before as to helping dissolve biofilm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 > > Google lumbrokinase (or Boulouke) and you'll see the stores that sell it > (some sites only sell to natropaths). The other alternative is > Nattokinase which is cheaper and pretty much does the same thing. > lumbrokinase is actually made from earthworms, the nattokinase isn't. > supposedly they make the blood thinner, thus helping abx's, etc. move thru > your system, and it helps as a cyst buster. lumbro and natto are peptidases, enzymes that cut very specific proteins. One of the proteins that they dissolve this way is fibrinn, important part of the blood clots that sometimes build up in arteries. Thinning the blood is a likely side effect, but I don't believe they will help with cysts. > I bought my lumbrokinase on ebay, got 60 caps for about the price of 30 > from the online stores. Take it before meals. take it a long time (like 1-2 hours probably) before or after meals, otherwise it will just be used to digest your meal ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 I will find out the article, and then tell, you, but what I understood, is that the two products together decrease a particular component in blood, pgG or pgX, or something like this. Philippe > > From: sciucca1 <peretti@...> > Subject: [ ] Herbs + antibiotics > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:58 AM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is philippe, I'm new on the forum. Had a tick bite in France long ago. I know that some antibiotics can not be used with some herbs, for instance berberine (found in coptis) is not to be used with macrolides. So it will be nice if can have a discussion about all the interactions. Also, I would like to know who used allicin ? > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 You can have a look at this article, http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/35/2/240.full?ck=nck It's out of my scope, so the best is to ask a MD, to have an opinion. It's not clear for me if the two drugs can be associated. Very not clear. But if you ask your MD, I will be very interested in the answer. Philippe > > From: sciucca1 <peretti@...> > Subject: [ ] Herbs + antibiotics > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:58 AM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is philippe, I'm new on the forum. Had a tick bite in France long ago. I know that some antibiotics can not be used with some herbs, for instance berberine (found in coptis) is not to be used with macrolides. So it will be nice if can have a discussion about all the interactions. Also, I would like to know who used allicin ? > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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