auto-immune

[Guest guest]

Hi: I was diagnosed about 4 or 5 years ago with Lucken Planus which is an auto

immune disease. I did a flight of prednizone to knock it down. It can reoccur

and it has, since my surgery. It is not a " terrible " disease. It is like

having bug bites that itch and never go away. It spreads rather slowly. The

skin becomes very thin over the itchy spot so just drying off with a towel can

cause it to bleed sometimes. I am sorry it has reappeared and hope it will not

get full blown. I really don't want to have to go on prednizone again. It

caused me to gain about 40 lbs last time. You know, there is a theory that

those of us with O positive blood are more likely to auto immune diseases.

--

Libbi

237/224/135

DOB 8/21/04

Dr. Kuri

[Guest guest]

> Libbi,

That sounds terrible. I hope this bout clears up soon. By the sound

of the symtoms I would go back on the meds asap.

hope it all works out for you

Katy

[Guest guest]

> In fact, I hear Science and research about auto immune problems from an over

active immune system, of which they are very close to figuring out. But,

medicine still is not addressing in treatment or even aknowledging it, at least

not that Ive heard of the over active immune system being even a factor, let

alone one of the major players in Lyme Disease Symptoms and it preventing a lot

of people from getting well and on with life. I think those that remain ill ..

Over reactive auto immunity is at the heart of the matter.

You have to distinguish between auto-immunity, cross-reactions (molecula mimicry

etc.) and overactive immune system. These are different things, and would

require different treatment.

I think in Lyme cross-reactions are a major problem; antigens against Borrelia

(and maybe coinfections) cross-react with our tissues causing inflammation and

other disease symptoms when the immune system starts fighting Borrelia. e.g. the

Borrelia flagellin protein looks very similar to certain nerve and muscle

proteins (maybe because they are evolutionary related), causing cross-reactions

in nerve and muscle tissue.

When these cross-reactions continue after the original antigen (Bb) is gone,

this would be an auto-immune reaction but this has NEVER been proven to occur in

Lyme, at least not as a general mechanism (maybe as a sideline, as with

anti-phospholipid syndrome etc.). And of course, it is impossible to prove the

Bb is gone, so difficult to separate cross-reactions from auto-immunity.

My impression is that most patients who continue to have chronic Lyme symptoms

have ongoing infection, and NOT 'auto-immunity'.

Auto-immunity in general is strongly on the rise, and linked with factors like

chemical pollution and increased use of certain food components (gluten, casein

etc.). There also is a role for infections, as a second 'trigger' that causes a

full blown crisis after the disease has been lingering for years. The exact

mechanism is still unknown, and I doubt we will know very soon (there could be

many different mechanisms involved). Most auto-immune diseases can be treated

(but not cured) with corticosteroids like prednison - but these are the worst

treatment for active Lyme.

Obviously, some auto-immune diseases like MS are very very similar to Lyme. And

as we know, some scientists especially from IDSA consider chronic lyme (if it

exists) to be an auto-immune disease. This is a very interesting piece of the

lyme puzzle. Are these other 'auto-immune' diseases often cases of

wrongly-diagnosed Lyme, or is Lyme an auto-immune disease that is specifically

triggered by Borrelia?

I'm currently reading the book 'The Autoimmune Epidemic'. It is not about Lyme,

but most of it (the medical, but also the social and political aspsects) will

sound VERY familiar to lymies.