Re: auto-immune

[Guest guest]

From: <Libbi01@...>

<< You know, there is a theory that those of us with O positive blood are more

likely to auto

immune diseases. >>

Interesting ... I am also O positive. I have never heard this before.

But do you think it could also be that the O positive type is the largest group

in the

population?

G. in Tacoma, WA

Dr. Neal 11.19.03 60.5 " tall, age 31

268/191/<134 ... 77 down, 57 to go

mini goal 168 ... 23 to go!

http://groups.msn.com/BandedDiva

" Nothing worth fighting for is ever easy! " ~ Oliver North

[Guest guest]

I had not thought about it being that we are the largest population. But, the

theory goes that we get less diseases caused by " infiltrators " because our

blood is so good at recognizing " others " and attacking them. But when it goes

haywire, it errors on the side of caution and starts to see " self " as " other "

and thus attacks self. Rhumatism is self attacking joints. Lichen planus us

self attacking skin. Lupus and fibromyalgia are other auto immune diseases. Our

own immune system being SO effecint it is attacking US.

--

Libbi

237/224/135

DOB 8/21/04

Dr. Kuri

[Guest guest]

I don't know about auto-immune diseases, but I've read a book called

Eat Right 4 Your Type. The book's theory is that blood types came

about as reactions to the lifestyle changes of early man. When

people were hunters, there was only O type blood, it has no protien

marker on it (what makes one A or , as people became farmers, A

type blood came as a reaction to the change. When people started to

raise cattle, B type blood came. Based on this there are certain

foods to stay away from because the protiens reacts in your body a

certain way causing a kind of allergic response. I can't speak for

everyone, but I have A type blood and followed some of the

suggestions and found my allergies and asthma were drastically

improved. I try to stay away from milk and milk products because

they create tons of mucus, which from the books theory is because

milk has protiens similar to the markers on B type blood. When the

milk protien is in my body, it causes a reaction that makes a lot of

mucus.

Since O type blood has no marker on it, it thinks everything is

foreign that it comes in contact with. Over time from eating the

wrong things (mostly milk and wheat), the body becomes

hypersensitive and O people are prone to diverticulitius and stomach

problems. I wonder if it also explains the auto immune responses.

Just thinking out loud.

Corina

> From: <Libbi01@a...>

> << You know, there is a theory that those of us with O positive

blood are more likely to auto

> immune diseases. >>

>

> Interesting ... I am also O positive. I have never heard this

before.

>

> But do you think it could also be that the O positive type is the

largest group in the

> population?

>

>

> G. in Tacoma, WA

> Dr. Neal 11.19.03 60.5 " tall, age 31

> 268/191/<134 ... 77 down, 57 to go

> mini goal 168 ... 23 to go!

> http://groups.msn.com/BandedDiva

> " Nothing worth fighting for is ever easy! " ~ Oliver North

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know what X Factor is? I know a gal that was banded lost

about 70 pounds and couldn't lose any more weight and now has gained it

all back. Doc also told her she could not have the RNY because it would

kill her.

Dawn

7/8/03

248/160/150

[Guest guest]

I have A+. I guess I'm the odd-man out. lol.

> I had not thought about it being that we are the largest

population. But, the theory goes that we get less diseases caused

by " infiltrators " because our blood is so good at

recognizing " others " and attacking them. But when it goes haywire,

it errors on the side of caution and starts to see " self " as " other "

and thus attacks self. Rhumatism is self attacking joints. Lichen

planus us self attacking skin. Lupus and fibromyalgia are other auto

immune diseases. Our own immune system being SO effecint it is

attacking US.

>

>

> --

> Libbi

> 237/224/135

> DOB 8/21/04

> Dr. Kuri

[Guest guest]

The " X " factor is a clotting component. DEficiency of this factor can

lead to prolonged, even fatal, bleeding. Most usually, though, it is

much milder, just causing prolonged nosebleeds, or more bleeding than

usual with cuts and scrapes.

Major surgery is usally avoided. Band surgery is pretty minor, and

can be ok, since there is so little cutting and so little bleeding.

X factor has Nothing at all to do with weight loss, so your friend's

weight regain is not from her X factor. Sandy R

> Does anyone know what X Factor is? I know a gal that was banded

lost

> about 70 pounds and couldn't lose any more weight and now has

gained it

> all back. Doc also told her she could not have the RNY because it

would

> kill her.

> Dawn

> 7/8/03

> 248/160/150

[Guest guest]

venizia,

I always put turmeric in my scrambled eggs.

Chuck

> Chuck,

>

> I read your post on inflammation and auto-immune disease. Funny that

> you should post this today. I just spoke to my doctor. By the way he

> lowered me to 2 1/2 grains every day instead of the 3/2 grains.

> Anyway he also said I should be taking 1 to 2 capsules of omega 3 and

> 1/4 tsp of tumeric a day for inflammation. He does have capsules of

> tumeric in his office called flavnoid. Interesting. Thanks for posting.

[Guest guest]

venizia,

I always put turmeric in my scrambled eggs.

Chuck

> Chuck,

>

> I read your post on inflammation and auto-immune disease. Funny that

> you should post this today. I just spoke to my doctor. By the way he

> lowered me to 2 1/2 grains every day instead of the 3/2 grains.

> Anyway he also said I should be taking 1 to 2 capsules of omega 3 and

> 1/4 tsp of tumeric a day for inflammation. He does have capsules of

> tumeric in his office called flavnoid. Interesting. Thanks for posting.

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Good idea. I never used turmeric so I didn't know how I was going to

get a 1/4 tsp a day. That will help. Thanks.

Venizia

-- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

> venizia,

>

> I always put turmeric in my scrambled eggs.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> > Chuck,

> >

> > I read your post on inflammation and auto-immune disease. Funny that

> > you should post this today. I just spoke to my doctor. By the way he

> > lowered me to 2 1/2 grains every day instead of the 3/2 grains.

> > Anyway he also said I should be taking 1 to 2 capsules of omega 3 and

> > 1/4 tsp of tumeric a day for inflammation. He does have capsules of

> > tumeric in his office called flavnoid. Interesting. Thanks for

posting.

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Good idea. I never used turmeric so I didn't know how I was going to

get a 1/4 tsp a day. That will help. Thanks.

Venizia

-- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

> venizia,

>

> I always put turmeric in my scrambled eggs.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> > Chuck,

> >

> > I read your post on inflammation and auto-immune disease. Funny that

> > you should post this today. I just spoke to my doctor. By the way he

> > lowered me to 2 1/2 grains every day instead of the 3/2 grains.

> > Anyway he also said I should be taking 1 to 2 capsules of omega 3 and

> > 1/4 tsp of tumeric a day for inflammation. He does have capsules of

> > tumeric in his office called flavnoid. Interesting. Thanks for

posting.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Knot Weed,

I have just been diagnosed with a post-lyme autoimmune disorder. I was

misdiagnosed [for who knows how long] and treated late. Felt pretty good on the

IV Rocephin after 2 months. But was taken off 3 weeks ago and have gotten very

sick again, even worse than before I started treatment. I'm seeing several

specialists for opinions, but so far the consensus in the lyme/neurology

community is that an autoimmune process has started. The treatment they are all

suggesting is called IVIG, which is pooled blood from thousands of donors. This

treatment is used in autoimmune diseases, most notably CIDP [which is a chronic

demyelinating polyneuropathy, similar to what I am facing].

Hard to accept. I'm trying to figure out the best plan of action right now

which is why I'm getting all of the opinions. That book you're reading sounds

interesting. I had already elminated gluten pretty much from my diet months ago

and doing a decent job most of the time staying away from processed sugar.

Kate

[ ] auto-immune

> In fact, I hear Science and research about auto immune problems from an over

active immune system, of which they are very close to figuring out. But,

medicine still is not addressing in treatment or even aknowledging it, at least

not that Ive heard of the over active immune system being even a factor, let

alone one of the major players in Lyme Disease Symptoms and it preventing a lot

of people from getting well and on with life. I think those that remain ill ..

Over reactive auto immunity is at the heart of the matter.

You have to distinguish between auto-immunity, cross-reactions (molecula mimicry

etc.) and overactive immune system. These are different things, and would

require different treatment.

I think in Lyme cross-reactions are a major problem; antigens against Borrelia

(and maybe coinfections) cross-react with our tissues causing inflammation and

other disease symptoms when the immune system starts fighting Borrelia. e.g. the

Borrelia flagellin protein looks very similar to certain nerve and muscle

proteins (maybe because they are evolutionary related), causing cross-reactions

in nerve and muscle tissue.

When these cross-reactions continue after the original antigen (Bb) is gone,

this would be an auto-immune reaction but this has NEVER been proven to occur in

Lyme, at least not as a general mechanism (maybe as a sideline, as with

anti-phospholipid syndrome etc.). And of course, it is impossible to prove the

Bb is gone, so difficult to separate cross-reactions from auto-immunity.

My impression is that most patients who continue to have chronic Lyme symptoms

have ongoing infection, and NOT 'auto-immunity'.

Auto-immunity in general is strongly on the rise, and linked with factors like

chemical pollution and increased use of certain food components (gluten, casein

etc.). There also is a role for infections, as a second 'trigger' that causes a

full blown crisis after the disease has been lingering for years. The exact

mechanism is still unknown, and I doubt we will know very soon (there could be

many different mechanisms involved). Most auto-immune diseases can be treated

(but not cured) with corticosteroids like prednison - but these are the worst

treatment for active Lyme.

Obviously, some auto-immune diseases like MS are very very similar to Lyme. And

as we know, some scientists especially from IDSA consider chronic lyme (if it

exists) to be an auto-immune disease. This is a very interesting piece of the

lyme puzzle. Are these other 'auto-immune' diseases often cases of

wrongly-diagnosed Lyme, or is Lyme an auto-immune disease that is specifically

triggered by Borrelia?

I'm currently reading the book 'The Autoimmune Epidemic'. It is not about Lyme,

but most of it (the medical, but also the social and political aspsects) will

sound VERY familiar to lymies.

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

 

Do the specialists think you have both a lyme infection and an autoimmune

disorder, or are they saying that all your symptoms are autoimmune?

Aviva

From: Katenyc5@... <Katenyc5@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] auto-immune

Date: Sunday, March 7, 2010, 8:17 AM

 

Hi Knot Weed,

I have just been diagnosed with a post-lyme autoimmune disorder. I was

misdiagnosed [for who knows how long] and treated late. Felt pretty good on the

IV Rocephin after 2 months. But was taken off 3 weeks ago and have gotten very

sick again, even worse than before I started treatment. I'm seeing several

specialists for opinions, but so far the consensus in the lyme/neurology

community is that an autoimmune process has started. The treatment they are all

suggesting is called IVIG, which is pooled blood from thousands of donors. This

treatment is used in autoimmune diseases, most notably CIDP [which is a chronic

demyelinating polyneuropathy, similar to what I am facing].

Hard to accept. I'm trying to figure out the best plan of action right now which

is why I'm getting all of the opinions. That book you're reading sounds

interesting. I had already elminated gluten pretty much from my diet months ago

and doing a decent job most of the time staying away from processed sugar.

Kate

[ ] auto-immune

> In fact, I hear Science and research about auto immune problems from an over

active immune system, of which they are very close to figuring out. But,

medicine still is not addressing in treatment or even aknowledging it, at least

not that Ive heard of the over active immune system being even a factor, let

alone one of the major players in Lyme Disease Symptoms and it preventing a lot

of people from getting well and on with life. I think those that remain ill ..

Over reactive auto immunity is at the heart of the matter.

You have to distinguish between auto-immunity, cross-reactions (molecula mimicry

etc.) and overactive immune system. These are different things, and would

require different treatment.

I think in Lyme cross-reactions are a major problem; antigens against Borrelia

(and maybe coinfections) cross-react with our tissues causing inflammation and

other disease symptoms when the immune system starts fighting Borrelia. e.g. the

Borrelia flagellin protein looks very similar to certain nerve and muscle

proteins (maybe because they are evolutionary related), causing cross-reactions

in nerve and muscle tissue.

When these cross-reactions continue after the original antigen (Bb) is gone,

this would be an auto-immune reaction but this has NEVER been proven to occur in

Lyme, at least not as a general mechanism (maybe as a sideline, as with

anti-phospholipid syndrome etc.). And of course, it is impossible to prove the

Bb is gone, so difficult to separate cross-reactions from auto-immunity.

My impression is that most patients who continue to have chronic Lyme symptoms

have ongoing infection, and NOT 'auto-immunity' .

Auto-immunity in general is strongly on the rise, and linked with factors like

chemical pollution and increased use of certain food components (gluten, casein

etc.). There also is a role for infections, as a second 'trigger' that causes a

full blown crisis after the disease has been lingering for years. The exact

mechanism is still unknown, and I doubt we will know very soon (there could be

many different mechanisms involved). Most auto-immune diseases can be treated

(but not cured) with corticosteroids like prednison - but these are the worst

treatment for active Lyme.

Obviously, some auto-immune diseases like MS are very very similar to Lyme. And

as we know, some scientists especially from IDSA consider chronic lyme (if it

exists) to be an auto-immune disease. This is a very interesting piece of the

lyme puzzle. Are these other 'auto-immune' diseases often cases of

wrongly-diagnosed Lyme, or is Lyme an auto-immune disease that is specifically

triggered by Borrelia?

I'm currently reading the book 'The Autoimmune Epidemic'. It is not about Lyme,

but most of it (the medical, but also the social and political aspsects) will

sound VERY familiar to lymies.

[Guest guest]

aviva,

both but they wonder if the lyme might be in remission right now and autoimmune

has now taken over. i got my first negative lyme test back this past week

[although testing never 100% accurate, of course].

[ ] auto-immune

> In fact, I hear Science and research about auto immune problems from an over

active immune system, of which they are very close to figuring out. But,

medicine still is not addressing in treatment or even aknowledging it, at least

not that Ive heard of the over active immune system being even a factor, let

alone one of the major players in Lyme Disease Symptoms and it preventing a lot

of people from getting well and on with life. I think those that remain ill ..

Over reactive auto immunity is at the heart of the matter.

You have to distinguish between auto-immunity, cross-reactions (molecula mimicry

etc.) and overactive immune system. These are different things, and would

require different treatment.

I think in Lyme cross-reactions are a major problem; antigens against Borrelia

(and maybe coinfections) cross-react with our tissues causing inflammation and

other disease symptoms when the immune system starts fighting Borrelia. e.g. the

Borrelia flagellin protein looks very similar to certain nerve and muscle

proteins (maybe because they are evolutionary related), causing cross-reactions

in nerve and muscle tissue.

When these cross-reactions continue after the original antigen (Bb) is gone,

this would be an auto-immune reaction but this has NEVER been proven to occur in

Lyme, at least not as a general mechanism (maybe as a sideline, as with

anti-phospholipid syndrome etc.). And of course, it is impossible to prove the

Bb is gone, so difficult to separate cross-reactions from auto-immunity.

My impression is that most patients who continue to have chronic Lyme symptoms

have ongoing infection, and NOT 'auto-immunity' .

Auto-immunity in general is strongly on the rise, and linked with factors like

chemical pollution and increased use of certain food components (gluten, casein

etc.). There also is a role for infections, as a second 'trigger' that causes a

full blown crisis after the disease has been lingering for years. The exact

mechanism is still unknown, and I doubt we will know very soon (there could be

many different mechanisms involved). Most auto-immune diseases can be treated

(but not cured) with corticosteroids like prednison - but these are the worst

treatment for active Lyme.

Obviously, some auto-immune diseases like MS are very very similar to Lyme. And

as we know, some scientists especially from IDSA consider chronic lyme (if it

exists) to be an auto-immune disease. This is a very interesting piece of the

lyme puzzle. Are these other 'auto-immune' diseases often cases of

wrongly-diagnosed Lyme, or is Lyme an auto-immune disease that is specifically

triggered by Borrelia?

I'm currently reading the book 'The Autoimmune Epidemic'. It is not about Lyme,

but most of it (the medical, but also the social and political aspsects) will

sound VERY familiar to lymies.

[Guest guest]

>

> I have just been diagnosed with a post-lyme autoimmune disorder. I was

misdiagnosed [for who knows how long] and treated late. Felt pretty good on the

IV Rocephin after 2 months. But was taken off 3 weeks ago and have gotten very

sick again, even worse than before I started treatment.

Hi Kate,

relapse within a few weeks of stopping IV rocephin is quite common. There are

several explanations, e.g. rocephin alone will only kill the spirochete form of

Bb and not the cyst/CWD versions. So you need to add plaquenil, flagyl or

tindamax to get rid of the cysts, otherwise the disease can return quickly.

Another issue is that many chronic lymies have disturbed glutamate metabolism,

which can cause severe neuro problems. Rocephin as a side effect tends to

improve glutamate metabolism, which would cure the symptoms while you are using

rocephin, also if it does not remove the real cause (Bb). In this case too,

symptoms will probably resume some time after stopping the medication.

> I'm seeing several specialists for opinions, but so far the consensus in the

lyme/neurology community is that an autoimmune process has started.

I don't think they have any proof for that opinion, and based on current good

research (e.g. animal tests) this options is very likely to be wrong. It is

usually based on the flawed assumption that any ABX course of a few weeks should

kill the infection, which of course is false when dealing with Borrelia.

> Hard to accept. I'm trying to figure out the best plan of action right now

which is why I'm getting all of the opinions. That book you're reading sounds

interesting. I had already elminated gluten pretty much from my diet months ago

and doing a decent job most of the time staying away from processed sugar.

diet and other sources of stress are a part of the puzzle; dealing with these

issues should lower the burden on your immune system, so it can help to improve

your situation. But it is not a cure in itself; I don't think there is a

reliable cure for chronic Lyme, neither with ABX nor with Buhner herbs or other

means.

My guess is that your chance of recovery strongly depends on certain factors

that are outside your control, like your genes/immune system and the properties

of the Bb strain or coinfections that happened to infect you. These factors will

probably determine the outcome more than the treatment itself.

[Guest guest]

If you are interested I have been trying to collect the wisdom of the

general Lyme community for the last 3 years. See below for a free copy.

www.lyme-resource.com

You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think! -

[ ] auto-immune

> In fact, I hear Science and research about auto immune problems from an

over active immune system, of which they are very close to figuring out.

But, medicine still is not addressing in treatment or even aknowledging it,

at least not that Ive heard of the over active immune system being even a

factor, let alone one of the major players in Lyme Disease Symptoms and it

preventing a lot of people from getting well and on with life. I think those

that remain ill .. Over reactive auto immunity is at the heart of the

matter.

You have to distinguish between auto-immunity, cross-reactions (molecula

mimicry etc.) and overactive immune system. These are different things, and

would require different treatment.

I think in Lyme cross-reactions are a major problem; antigens against

Borrelia (and maybe coinfections) cross-react with our tissues causing

inflammation and other disease symptoms when the immune system starts

fighting Borrelia. e.g. the Borrelia flagellin protein looks very similar to

certain nerve and muscle proteins (maybe because they are evolutionary

related), causing cross-reactions in nerve and muscle tissue.

When these cross-reactions continue after the original antigen (Bb) is gone,

this would be an auto-immune reaction but this has NEVER been proven to

occur in Lyme, at least not as a general mechanism (maybe as a sideline, as

with anti-phospholipid syndrome etc.). And of course, it is impossible to

prove the Bb is gone, so difficult to separate cross-reactions from

auto-immunity.

My impression is that most patients who continue to have chronic Lyme

symptoms have ongoing infection, and NOT 'auto-immunity'.

Auto-immunity in general is strongly on the rise, and linked with factors

like chemical pollution and increased use of certain food components

(gluten, casein etc.). There also is a role for infections, as a second

'trigger' that causes a full blown crisis after the disease has been

lingering for years. The exact mechanism is still unknown, and I doubt we

will know very soon (there could be many different mechanisms involved).

Most auto-immune diseases can be treated (but not cured) with

corticosteroids like prednison - but these are the worst treatment for

active Lyme.

Obviously, some auto-immune diseases like MS are very very similar to Lyme.

And as we know, some scientists especially from IDSA consider chronic lyme

(if it exists) to be an auto-immune disease. This is a very interesting

piece of the lyme puzzle. Are these other 'auto-immune' diseases often cases

of wrongly-diagnosed Lyme, or is Lyme an auto-immune disease that is

specifically triggered by Borrelia?

I'm currently reading the book 'The Autoimmune Epidemic'. It is not about

Lyme, but most of it (the medical, but also the social and political

aspsects) will sound VERY familiar to lymies.

[Guest guest]

Isn't it possible that our immune systems are actually attacking the borrelia

that are hanging out in our tissues?

Can someone please fill me in about this. Am I missing something?

One thing I do know for sure is that the autoimmune theory is just that.. a

theory.

Chris

[Guest guest]

it seems like it's all a big question mark.

[ ] Re: auto-immune

Isn't it possible that our immune systems are actually attacking the borrelia

that are hanging out in our tissues?

Can someone please fill me in about this. Am I missing something?

One thing I do know for sure is that the autoimmune theory is just that.. a

theory.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris:

I am with you. It seems that the antibiotics are attacking the bacteria and

thus if its hiding in our tissues it would make sense that we would have pain

there. I wish some great brilliant doctor would figure this out. I really find

my discouragement comes from not only being sick but the varying information out

there (ie for example you read one thing and than turn around something else

contradicts what you just read!)

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> Isn't it possible that our immune systems are actually attacking the borrelia

that are hanging out in our tissues?

> Can someone please fill me in about this. Am I missing something?

yes, I think this is the major issue responsible for Lyme problems, and we know

from research that it happens, e.g. with anti-Bb immune reactions in the CNS and

the joint fluid. These are cross-reactions ('molecular mimicry') and NOT

auto-immunity.

The IDSA view is that all symptoms in chronic lyme are auto-immune, because the

bugs are gone or 'no longer a threat' (the latest version from the Worm, who has

probably discovered that the evidence in favor of persistent infection is

overwhelming - so he now says that even if the Bb persists, it does no longer do

any harm; how the bugs suddenly get to be harmless he doesn't say ...).

Their auto-immune view is scientific garbage IMHO, too complicated theory that

can never be proven.

> One thing I do know for sure is that the autoimmune theory is just that.. a

theory.

yes, the theories are still pretty vague. Most of them suggest chemical

pollution, wrong food, vaccinations etc. are damaging our immune systems,

keeping them on constant alert. A bacterial or viral infection is assumed to be

the spark that lights the auto-immune fire (with molecular mimicry - plenty of

that with Bb because it is constantly changing its antigens).

I do believe that in Lyme these other factors are also involved, making one more

vulnerable to Borrelia infection.

[Guest guest]

>

> Chris:

>

> I am with you. It seems that the antibiotics are attacking the bacteria and

thus if its hiding in our tissues it would make sense that we would have pain

there. I wish some great brilliant doctor would figure this out. I really find

my discouragement comes from not only being sick but the varying information out

there (ie for example you read one thing and than turn around something else

contradicts what you just read!)

yes, I mostly agree. But keep in mind that you can have similar pain when not

using antibiotics; I doubt this is because the immune system is killing Bb on

its own, like what happens with ABX.

IMHO it is more likely that activity of Bb in the tissues is causing part of the

immune system, mostly the innate immune system, to be activated which causes the

typical flue-like reactions like inflammation. Bb also activates stuff like

metalloproteinases that break down your own tissue, which also causes pain and

more immune reactions.

[Guest guest]

I want to know if anyone knows if this inflammation can actually be measured in

lab test (Ie believe its called CRP test which measures inflammation in the

body) or does this type of inflammation only felt in the patient with no

physical tests to measure it. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Tessa, I'd like to know that, too!

Kate

[ ] Re: auto-immune

I want to know if anyone knows if this inflammation can actually be measured in

lab test (Ie believe its called CRP test which measures inflammation in the

body) or does this type of inflammation only felt in the patient with no

physical tests to measure it. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

>

> I want to know if anyone knows if this inflammation can actually be measured

in lab test (Ie believe its called CRP test which measures inflammation in the

body) or does this type of inflammation only felt in the patient with no

physical tests to measure it. Thanks!

inflammation is a general word, not something that can be strictly defined in a

biochemical sense. One could measure certain cytokines or antibody reactions,

order CRP or blood sedimentation tests etc. They all measure different

(sometimes overlapping) parts of the inflammation process. There are also

markers for certain types of auto-immune reaction like ANA and APA.

[Guest guest]

Hi Tessa,

There are many tests for inflammation. IL1, 6, TNF alpha, CRP, sed rate,

IGF1 just to name a few. However, tests are not perfect and you can

still have inflammation with normal tests results.

Many docs believe that all disease is a result of inflammation. So, if

you got something...you got inflammation :-)

Controlling it will help with all illnesses. I have the inflammation

gene so I have a particularly difficult time with controlling it. I am

on some new products and I will keep you updated as I give them a chance

to work. Keep your fingers crossed.

Have a great day.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

The IDSA view is that all symptoms in chronic lyme are auto-immune, because the

bugs are gone or 'no longer a threat' (the latest version from the Worm, who has

probably discovered that the evidence in favor of persistent infection is

overwhelming - so he now says that even if the Bb persists, it does no longer do

any harm; how the bugs suddenly get to be harmless he doesn't say ...).

First, I gotta say I love your nickname for Dr Wormser, how fitting lol... " the

worm " .

And as for the IDSA and their half-baked theories well, give their heads a shake

or maybe a good smack to the head would bring them back to reality lol.

Post lyme disease....what the frig is that?? OMG, Post lyme refers to what??

Yeah... we take abx for 6 weeks or whatever the limit is, we actually can still

have a positive result in a blood test, the bacteria can actually still be

vizualized in our blood and oh yeah... we still have symptoms... but we are

cured. How stupid do they think we are? Makes me think that they must not be so

intelligent either if they think we are all gonna swallow that fictional story.

It's all utterly ridiculous if you ask me.

" Their auto-immune view is scientific garbage IMHO, too complicated theory that

can never be proven. "

Seems to me that the whole autoimmune theory arose after the advent of vaccines

that contained rabbit brains for one thing (gross). Some people's immune systems

were reacting to the rabbit brain (which kinda makes sense to me). Scientists

then reasoned that the damage caused by MS was similar to the damage caused

vaccination reaction therefore MS must be caused by the same thing. And since

people with MS were not being vaccinated something else was causing this

reaction so it had to be a self antigen.

BTW the mouse model of MS was created with this data and the autoimmune theory

in mind. The mouse model of MS is actually created by vacination... and that

model is what they use to test their treatments, kinda scary huh. So when they

see benefit in a med they aren't looking at MS, they are looking at a mouse with

damage caused by vaccination. Not even close to the same thing. Perhaps they

should merely inject the mouse with borrelia to get an accurate model....

It seems to me that whenever damage to our bodies occurs that involves certain

issues and they don't understand what is causing it they just throw it into the

autoimmune pile and call it a day.

And you know, once a theory has been embraced by the medical community it is

really hard to get them to change their minds about it. If a Dr has been using a

particular theory to back up their research and this theory is found to be

incorrect that means that the research the Dr did using this theory isn't worth

the paper it is written on unless he needs some scrap paper to start a campfire

lol.

Take Care All,

Chris