Re: Question to this group

[Guest guest]

,

My purpose in posting the scientific studies are for the benefit of some of

the members on this group who may be still searching for answers on the

safety of saline implants.

These scientific studies, which are abtracts in terms that most people can

understand, show that contrary to what plastic surgeons are telling people

today, the dangers of silicone have been known for many years, and that

there are associations to autoimmune responses that need to be discussed

thoroughly with their patients.

Some members may choose not to go to the SBI newsgroup, as there have been

many distractors--I, for one, rarely ever go there. However, after hearing

of the studies posted, I picked out the ones that I thought were extremely

valuable to this group to share, and to have a record of their existence. I

am sorry that you don't find these helpful.

As for hearing from women who have been healed, as I have told you many

times before, they do exist, but they are not here. I know some who are in

California, Louisiana, South Carolina, Connecticut, and other places, but

for whatever reason, they are not members of this group. There are a total

of 21 members on this group so far. It was only started a month ago, so you

will have to be patient as it grows and expands and more people share.

You also have to be aware that healing takes time. I am 95% better. I am

so thankful for that. It has taken me over 2 years to get this far, and I

am not done yet. Check with me in 4 years. Maybe I will be 99%!

I had hoped that more women would share their stories, but for whatever

reason, they aren't. I posted mine, in the hopes that it would encourage

others to share theirs.

Ladies, if you have some healing info to share with , can you take the

time to do it?

I will post the steps I have taken to get better in detail for your benefit.

Patty

[Guest guest]

Dear Patty,

Don't get me wrong, I know that some of these posts may be helpful to

some. It isn't even really that I cannot understand them, it is out of

frustration that i am speaking. I just keep running into walls in this

nightmare I am going through. I mean one symptom gets better, another

one comes in that is almost just as bad. Lately I am suffering from

nausea, it is awful, kinda reminds me of when I was pregnant and had 24

hour a day morning sickness for 3 months. I Know I am not pregnant, but

it is a similiar feeling ya know? I am wondering if the ginko is causing

it, but the ginko seems to be helping a little with my head so I

continue to take it. I find that now if I do weightlifting the nausea is

overwhelming. I am just tired of being ill and am searching for answers.

I just don't find many. I mean there are all kinds of women with

autoimmune diseases that don't have implants, esp in my age group, so

how do you really know if it is just a coincidence? How do you know you

will ever get better? it goes on and on....

[Guest guest]

I find the scientific studies very important. We are trying to understand

an emerging illness and I think Patty has done an excellent job of educating

people. I have answered all questions that I have read on this post.

Perhaps you missed the answers. Patty, I also have high levels of arsenic.

It would be interesting to see profiles on a large group of women. I have

discussed the platinum problem with the doctor who wrote a paper on it in

the Jan. 99 issue of Israel J. of Occupational medicine ( or Health). He

said his medical license was threatened. No wonder Senator Barbara Boxer

told me at her press conference when the silicone bill was introduced that I

was very brave for appearing on national TV. Glamour magazine interviewed

me for over on hour this week. It will be interesting to see what they have

to say about saline implants. They said they had me as the pro on the pro

vs con side bar. I'm not sure why. It is very easy to become negative and

depressed when you are chronically ill but I can assure you that these

negative emotions can be just as toxic as your body's reaction to your

breast implants and if you do not monitor this portion of your psyche, you

can become very seriously ill. A large part of recovery is taking

responsibility for your decisions and incorporating forgiveness into you

daily life We are all learning and growing so it is wise to be gentle with

your judgments. Kolb M.D..

----- Original Message -----

From: <carina63@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 1:22 PM

Subject: Question to this group

> I am getting so tired of these posts that are scientific stuff I can't

> understand, old studies, and repeat stuff from the SBI newsgroups. When

> I joined this group I really was hoping to hear more things from women

> who had saline implants and were sick, or had them out and what they

> were doing to get better. Apparently there aren't really any are there?

> I am sad and disappointed by this fact. I have asked DR.Kolb several

> times a few questions but she doesn't answer them......I guess she

> doesn't know or have the answers either. I would really like to hear

> more from women who are getting better without implants, it seems like

> maybe some of us are going to be ill forever with or without our

> implants. This is something I am working at accepting.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Kolb,

I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that was about

the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off replacing them

with textured if they are symptomatic?

Patty

[Guest guest]

> Dr. Kolb,

>

> I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that was

about

> the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

>

> Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off replacing

them

> with textured if they are symptomatic?

Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured implants would

they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now symptomatic?

thanks!

Patty

[Guest guest]

Yes Dr.Kolb you are right, and I am angry, and I guess maybe that is not

good for healing. How does one get past the anger when only a little

over a year ago I was so healthy and felt so great and now everyday is

spent trying to do things that were once so easy.

I apologize to the group, maybe it is my " head " causing me to act this

way. As my head is pretty messed up most of the time if not all of the

time.

Someday when and if I get my implants out, or if I get better I will

post to this group so that other women will know there is hope, on a

personal level. Not on a scientific level. I feel that there is such a

need for this.

Thankyou and good bye

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

We will be happy to send you a complimentary copy of " Betrayed " by a

Registered Nurse, who had saline implants; and a copy of " The Breast Implant

Controversy " by Dr. Vasey. Both are excellent books which will give

you a very good understanding of many of the questions you probably have

regarding your breast implants. All you need to do is send us your mailing

address, and we will have these books in Priority Mail on Monday.

I can personally tell you that I was EXTREMELY ILL in June, '94, when I had

my implants removed, and it took 3 years of taking 3 steps forward, then 2

steps backward, until I finally learned to 'pace myself', and that's very

hard to do when you have been so ill, suddenly going downhill faster that

you can grasp -- to the extent, you feel you are going to die before you can

even get the explant surgery done.

I now count every single day a blessing, even though I still have some

really rough days. Having my teeth cleaned sets off the inflammation so

badly, it takes a day to recover!

Things will get better because, once you change your mind -- you change your

life!

Most sincerely,

Martha Murdock, Director

Lawrence, President

National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

Dallas Headquarters

-----Original Message-----

From: <carina63@...>

egroups < egroups>

Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 12:22 PM

Subject: Question to this group

>I am getting so tired of these posts that are scientific stuff I can't

>understand, old studies, and repeat stuff from the SBI newsgroups. When

>I joined this group I really was hoping to hear more things from women

>who had saline implants and were sick, or had them out and what they

>were doing to get better. Apparently there aren't really any are there?

>I am sad and disappointed by this fact. I have asked DR.Kolb several

>times a few questions but she doesn't answer them......I guess she

>doesn't know or have the answers either. I would really like to hear

>more from women who are getting better without implants, it seems like

>maybe some of us are going to be ill forever with or without our

>implants. This is something I am working at accepting.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

MARTHA wrote:

>

> Dear ,

>

> We will be happy to send you a complimentary copy of " Betrayed " by a

> Registered Nurse, who had saline implants; and a copy of " The Breast Implant

> Controversy " by Dr. Vasey. Both are excellent books which will give

> you a very good understanding of many of the questions you probably have

> regarding your breast implants. All you need to do is send us your mailing

> address, and we will have these books in Priority Mail on Monday.

>

> I can personally tell you that I was EXTREMELY ILL in June, '94, when I had

> my implants removed, and it took 3 years of taking 3 steps forward, then 2

> steps backward, until I finally learned to 'pace myself', and that's very

> hard to do when you have been so ill, suddenly going downhill faster that

> you can grasp -- to the extent, you feel you are going to die before you can

> even get the explant surgery done.

>

> I now count every single day a blessing, even though I still have some

> really rough days. Having my teeth cleaned sets off the inflammation so

> badly, it takes a day to recover!

>

> Things will get better because, once you change your mind -- you change your

> life!

>

> Most sincerely,

> Martha Murdock, Director

> Lawrence, President

> National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> Dallas Headquarters

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: <carina63@...>

> egroups < egroups>

> Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 12:22 PM

> Subject: Question to this group

>

> >I am getting so tired of these posts that are scientific stuff I can't

> >understand, old studies, and repeat stuff from the SBI newsgroups. When

> >I joined this group I really was hoping to hear more things from women

> >who had saline implants and were sick, or had them out and what they

> >were doing to get better. Apparently there aren't really any are there?

> >I am sad and disappointed by this fact. I have asked DR.Kolb several

> >times a few questions but she doesn't answer them......I guess she

> >doesn't know or have the answers either. I would really like to hear

> >more from women who are getting better without implants, it seems like

> >maybe some of us are going to be ill forever with or without our

> >implants. This is something I am working at accepting.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know how I could get a copy of " Betrayed " , by a Registered Nurse

and a copy of " The Breast Implant Controversy " by Dr. Vasey?

Thank you,

Amy

[Guest guest]

Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the body is

probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants but the study

of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be done. With

silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when researchers looked

at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors however such as

total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the equation. If a women

had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone sensitivity

test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone senisvity

test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline is she was

intent on having implants. Kolb.

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty <faussettdp@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

> > Dr. Kolb,

> >

> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that was

> about

> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> >

> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off replacing

> them

> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

>

> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured implants

would

> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now symptomatic?

>

> thanks!

> Patty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr.Kolb

I am curious, does this silicone sensitivity test really prove anything?

I have heard that having antibodies to silicone really means nothing, as

we are exposed to silicone in so many things in day to day life, that

having these antibodies doesn't mean we are sick from it or will get

sick from it. Is this true or is this test really conclusive? I am

curious, did you have this test done and if so what were your results? I

am not trying to argue here, just asking questions as always?

Thanks, Love

[Guest guest]

Dear Amy,

Hi Amy,

We have about 6 copies left of each book, and we will be happy to send a

complimentary copy of each book to you, if you will please send us a

Priority Mail Envelope, self-addressed, with a $3.20 postage stamp on the

envelope. Please send this to the following:

NSIF (National Silicone Implant Foundation)

4416 Willow Lane

Dallas, TX 75244-7537

Most sincerely,

Martha Murdock, Director

Lawrence, President

National Silicone Implant Foundation

4416 Willow Lane

Dallas, TX 75244-7537

(972) 490-0800 - Information / Message Line

-----Original Message-----

From: amybcj@... <amybcj@...>

egroups < egroups>

Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

>Does anyone know how I could get a copy of " Betrayed " , by a Registered

Nurse

>and a copy of " The Breast Implant Controversy " by Dr. Vasey?

>Thank you,

>

>Amy

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Kolb,

Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA Hearings the

first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a possibility of

re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you and highly

respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a woman, such

as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to silicone (smooth

or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a woman to

anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These situations have

indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It cannot be

pleasant!

Most sincerely,

Martha Murdock, Director

National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

Dallas TX Headquarters

-----Original Message-----

From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

egroups < egroups>

Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

>Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the body is

>probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants but the

study

>of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be done. With

>silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when researchers looked

>at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors however such as

>total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the equation. If a

women

>had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone sensitivity

>test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone senisvity

>test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

>improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline is she was

>intent on having implants. Kolb.

>----- Original Message -----

>From: Patty <faussettdp@...>

>< egroups>

>Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

>Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

>>

>> > Dr. Kolb,

>> >

>> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that was

>> about

>> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

>> >

>> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off replacing

>> them

>> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

>>

>> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured implants

>would

>> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now symptomatic?

>>

>> thanks!

>> Patty

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Martha and . It is on its way.

Amy

[Guest guest]

Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant surgery for

over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would not be

explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that in most

cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of silicone. I

believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers. Remember that

every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth extraction,

so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the placement of

foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and minimize the

risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to surgery

just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy before they

die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I try to

identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them prior to

explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat infections

before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the instruments

were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her implants

removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence of

autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the ultimate

choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological disease.

Kolb M.D.

----- Original Message -----

From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

> Dear Dr. Kolb,

>

> Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA Hearings the

> first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a possibility

of

> re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you and highly

> respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a woman,

such

> as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to silicone

(smooth

> or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a woman to

> anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These situations have

> indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It cannot be

> pleasant!

>

> Most sincerely,

> Martha Murdock, Director

> National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> Dallas TX Headquarters

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

> egroups < egroups>

> Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

> Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

> >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the body is

> >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants but the

> study

> >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be done. With

> >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when researchers

looked

> >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors however such

as

> >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the equation. If a

> women

> >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

sensitivity

> >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone senisvity

> >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

> >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline is she

was

> >intent on having implants. Kolb.

> >----- Original Message -----

> >From: Patty <faussettdp@...>

> >< egroups>

> >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

> >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> >

> >

> >>

> >> > Dr. Kolb,

> >> >

> >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that was

> >> about

> >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> >> >

> >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

replacing

> >> them

> >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

> >>

> >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured implants

> >would

> >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now symptomatic?

> >>

> >> thanks!

> >> Patty

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

: The silicone sensivity test tests the reactivity of your T cells to

silicone. This is on a different side of the immune system than the

antibodies. .

----- Original Message -----

From: <carina63@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 11:27 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

> Dr.Kolb

>

>

> I am curious, does this silicone sensitivity test really prove anything?

> I have heard that having antibodies to silicone really means nothing, as

> we are exposed to silicone in so many things in day to day life, that

> having these antibodies doesn't mean we are sick from it or will get

> sick from it. Is this true or is this test really conclusive? I am

> curious, did you have this test done and if so what were your results? I

> am not trying to argue here, just asking questions as always?

> Thanks, Love

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Kolb,

Thank you for your response. Now, I would like to ask if you have had any

experience in getting insurance companies to pay for any forms of tram flap

or microvascular surgery for mastectomy women ?

Most sincerely,

Martha Murdock

NSIF

-----Original Message-----

From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

egroups < egroups>

Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 10:20 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

>Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant surgery

for

>over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would not be

>explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that in most

>cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of silicone. I

>believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers. Remember

that

>every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth extraction,

>so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the placement of

>foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and minimize the

>risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

>reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to surgery

>just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy before they

>die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I try to

>identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them prior to

>explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat infections

>before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

>anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the instruments

>were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her

implants

>removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

>sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence of

>autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the ultimate

>choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

>immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological disease.

> Kolb M.D.

>----- Original Message -----

>From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@...>

>< egroups>

>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

>Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

>> Dear Dr. Kolb,

>>

>> Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA Hearings the

>> first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a possibility

>of

>> re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you and

highly

>> respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a woman,

>such

>> as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to silicone

>(smooth

>> or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a woman to

>> anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These situations

have

>> indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It cannot be

>> pleasant!

>>

>> Most sincerely,

>> Martha Murdock, Director

>> National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

>> Dallas TX Headquarters

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

>> egroups < egroups>

>> Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

>> Subject: Re: Question to this group

>>

>>

>> >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the body is

>> >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants but the

>> study

>> >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be done. With

>> >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when researchers

>looked

>> >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors however such

>as

>> >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the equation. If a

>> women

>> >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

>sensitivity

>> >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone senisvity

>> >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

>> >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline is she

>was

>> >intent on having implants. Kolb.

>> >----- Original Message -----

>> >From: Patty <faussettdp@...>

>> >< egroups>

>> >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

>> >Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> >

>> >

>> >>

>> >> > Dr. Kolb,

>> >> >

>> >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that

was

>> >> about

>> >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

>> >> >

>> >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

>replacing

>> >> them

>> >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

>> >>

>> >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured implants

>> >would

>> >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now symptomatic?

>> >>

>> >> thanks!

>> >> Patty

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

[Guest guest]

Dr Kolb,

How can you claim to have a low complication rate when you yourself

claim to have been sickened by breast implants? Obviously you did

not do your own surgery so I guess you don't have to count that in

your surgical statistics, but shouldn't you consider your own illness

before using this support forum to air your " pro " viewpoint?

While I'm sure your medical expertise is valued here by those who ask

questions, I would take it with a grain of salt since you do earn

part of your income by implanting women. You are not unbiased.

And yes, I have recommended you to women seeking explantation.

Eileen

--- In egroups, " Dr. Kolb " <drkolb@m...>

wrote:

> Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant

surgery for

> over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would

not be

> explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that

in most

> cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of

silicone. I

> believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers.

Remember that

> every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

extraction,

> so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the

placement of

> foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and

minimize the

> risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

> reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to

surgery

> just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy

before they

> die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I

try to

> identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them

prior to

> explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat

infections

> before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

> anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the

instruments

> were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her

implants

> removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

> sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence

of

> autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the

ultimate

> choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

> immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological

disease.

> Kolb M.D.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@P...>

> < egroups>

> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

> Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

> > Dear Dr. Kolb,

> >

> > Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA

Hearings the

> > first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

possibility

> of

> > re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you

and highly

> > respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a

woman,

> such

> > as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to

silicone

> (smooth

> > or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a

woman to

> > anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These

situations have

> > indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It

cannot be

> > pleasant!

> >

> > Most sincerely,

> > Martha Murdock, Director

> > National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> > Dallas TX Headquarters

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@m...>

> > egroups < egroups>

> > Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

> > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> >

> >

> > >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the

body is

> > >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants

but the

> > study

> > >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be

done. With

> > >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when

researchers

> looked

> > >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors

however such

> as

> > >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the

equation. If a

> > women

> > >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

> sensitivity

> > >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone

senisvity

> > >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

> > >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline

is she

> was

> > >intent on having implants. Kolb.

> > >----- Original Message -----

> > >From: Patty <faussettdp@m...>

> > >< egroups>

> > >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

> > >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> > >> > Dr. Kolb,

> > >> >

> > >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and

that was

> > >> about

> > >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> > >> >

> > >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

> replacing

> > >> them

> > >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

> > >>

> > >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured

implants

> > >would

> > >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now

symptomatic?

> > >>

> > >> thanks!

> > >> Patty

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Eileen: I suggest you pay attention to the questions prior to writing

emails. I became ill when my silicone implants leaked at 8 years. The

question I was responding to had to do with complications of saline

implants, not silicone implants. I am very unbiased Eileen as I understand

both viewpoints as a surgeon and as a patient. I am not using this forum to

air a pro viewpoint. I am answering specific questions. Again, please read

the emails so you do not become confused. Perhaps you should simple not open

my comments so you do not become offended by what I write. Kolb.

----- Original Message -----

From: Eileen <sosalines@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 12:44 AM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

> Dr Kolb,

>

> How can you claim to have a low complication rate when you yourself

> claim to have been sickened by breast implants? Obviously you did

> not do your own surgery so I guess you don't have to count that in

> your surgical statistics, but shouldn't you consider your own illness

> before using this support forum to air your " pro " viewpoint?

>

> While I'm sure your medical expertise is valued here by those who ask

> questions, I would take it with a grain of salt since you do earn

> part of your income by implanting women. You are not unbiased.

>

> And yes, I have recommended you to women seeking explantation.

>

> Eileen

>

>

> > Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant

> surgery for

> > over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would

> not be

> > explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that

> in most

> > cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of

> silicone. I

> > believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers.

> Remember that

> > every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

> extraction,

> > so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the

> placement of

> > foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and

> minimize the

> > risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

> > reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to

> surgery

> > just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy

> before they

> > die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I

> try to

> > identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them

> prior to

> > explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat

> infections

> > before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

> > anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the

> instruments

> > were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her

> implants

> > removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

> > sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence

> of

> > autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the

> ultimate

> > choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

> > immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological

> disease.

> > Kolb M.D.

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@P...>

> > < egroups>

> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

> > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> >

> >

> > > Dear Dr. Kolb,

> > >

> > > Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA

> Hearings the

> > > first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

> possibility

> > of

> > > re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you

> and highly

> > > respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a

> woman,

> > such

> > > as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to

> silicone

> > (smooth

> > > or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a

> woman to

> > > anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These

> situations have

> > > indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It

> cannot be

> > > pleasant!

> > >

> > > Most sincerely,

> > > Martha Murdock, Director

> > > National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> > > Dallas TX Headquarters

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@m...>

> > > egroups < egroups>

> > > Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > >

> > >

> > > >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the

> body is

> > > >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants

> but the

> > > study

> > > >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be

> done. With

> > > >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when

> researchers

> > looked

> > > >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors

> however such

> > as

> > > >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the

> equation. If a

> > > women

> > > >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

> > sensitivity

> > > >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone

> senisvity

> > > >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

> > > >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline

> is she

> > was

> > > >intent on having implants. Kolb.

> > > >----- Original Message -----

> > > >From: Patty <faussettdp@m...>

> > > >< egroups>

> > > >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

> > > >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>

> > > >> > Dr. Kolb,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and

> that was

> > > >> about

> > > >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

> > replacing

> > > >> them

> > > >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

> > > >>

> > > >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured

> implants

> > > >would

> > > >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now

> symptomatic?

> > > >>

> > > >> thanks!

> > > >> Patty

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

[Guest guest]

OR.....perhaps others feel the same way Dr. Kolb, as I too am under the

impression that, " patient " or not, you appear to be " airing " a " Pro "

view as regards Saline implants, and also are suggesting that women

should be implanted with the " smooth shell " Saline implants.....so if

Eileen is confused, then perhaps others and myself are also....as I

thought the exact same thing. The door does not swing both ways Dr.

Kolb, either you think implants have great risks, and have not been

proven safe, or you don't. If you do not have a " pro " view, then why

would you, of all people, advocate and continue to implant women?

The last time I checked, choosing a failed medical device, such as an

implant contained in a silicone envelope was not healthy for women.

Sue

On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:36:49 -0400, Dr. Kolb wrote:

>Dear Eileen: I suggest you pay attention to the questions prior to writing

>emails. I became ill when my silicone implants leaked at 8 years. The

>question I was responding to had to do with complications of saline

>implants, not silicone implants. I am very unbiased Eileen as I understand

>both viewpoints as a surgeon and as a patient. I am not using this forum to

>air a pro viewpoint. I am answering specific questions. Again, please read

>the emails so you do not become confused. Perhaps you should simple not open

>my comments so you do not become offended by what I write. Kolb.

>----- Original Message -----

>From: Eileen <sosalines@...>

>< egroups>

>Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 12:44 AM

>Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

>> Dr Kolb,

>>

>> How can you claim to have a low complication rate when you yourself

>> claim to have been sickened by breast implants? Obviously you did

>> not do your own surgery so I guess you don't have to count that in

>> your surgical statistics, but shouldn't you consider your own illness

>> before using this support forum to air your " pro " viewpoint?

>>

>> While I'm sure your medical expertise is valued here by those who ask

>> questions, I would take it with a grain of salt since you do earn

>> part of your income by implanting women. You are not unbiased.

>>

>> And yes, I have recommended you to women seeking explantation.

>>

>> Eileen

>>

>>

>> > Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant

>> surgery for

>> > over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would

>> not be

>> > explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that

>> in most

>> > cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of

>> silicone. I

>> > believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers.

>> Remember that

>> > every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

>> extraction,

>> > so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the

>> placement of

>> > foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and

>> minimize the

>> > risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

>> > reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to

>> surgery

>> > just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy

>> before they

>> > die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I

>> try to

>> > identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them

>> prior to

>> > explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat

>> infections

>> > before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

>> > anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the

>> instruments

>> > were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her

>> implants

>> > removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

>> > sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence

>> of

>> > autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the

>> ultimate

>> > choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

>> > immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological

>> disease.

>> > Kolb M.D.

>> > ----- Original Message -----

>> > From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@P...>

>> > < egroups>

>> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

>> > Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> >

>> >

>> > > Dear Dr. Kolb,

>> > >

>> > > Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA

>> Hearings the

>> > > first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

>> possibility

>> > of

>> > > re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you

>> and highly

>> > > respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a

>> woman,

>> > such

>> > > as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to

>> silicone

>> > (smooth

>> > > or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a

>> woman to

>> > > anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These

>> situations have

>> > > indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It

>> cannot be

>> > > pleasant!

>> > >

>> > > Most sincerely,

>> > > Martha Murdock, Director

>> > > National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

>> > > Dallas TX Headquarters

>> > >

>> > > -----Original Message-----

>> > > From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@m...>

>> > > egroups < egroups>

>> > > Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

>> > > Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the

>> body is

>> > > >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants

>> but the

>> > > study

>> > > >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be

>> done. With

>> > > >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when

>> researchers

>> > looked

>> > > >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors

>> however such

>> > as

>> > > >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the

>> equation. If a

>> > > women

>> > > >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

>> > sensitivity

>> > > >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone

>> senisvity

>> > > >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

>> > > >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline

>> is she

>> > was

>> > > >intent on having implants. Kolb.

>> > > >----- Original Message -----

>> > > >From: Patty <faussettdp@m...>

>> > > >< egroups>

>> > > >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

>> > > >Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >>

>> > > >> > Dr. Kolb,

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and

>> that was

>> > > >> about

>> > > >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

>> > replacing

>> > > >> them

>> > > >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

>> > > >>

>> > > >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured

>> implants

>> > > >would

>> > > >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now

>> symptomatic?

>> > > >>

>> > > >> thanks!

>> > > >> Patty

>> > > >>

>> > > >>

>> > > >>

>> > > >>

>> > > >>

>> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Martha: It is usually not difficult to get insurance coverage for TRAM

flap breast reconstruction for mastectomy patients. I have even gotton

coverage for TRAM flap breast reconstruction after explantation if a

deformity was present due to the explantation. This is usually only in

patients with indemnity insurance. I have also been able on many occasions

to get insurance coverage for saline explantation provided that local chest

wall symptoms are present. We have been fortuanate that so many insurance

companies still cover explantation in view of the recent press claiming that

silicone implants do not cause systemic disease. Kolb.

----- Original Message -----

From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 11:43 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

> Dear Dr. Kolb,

>

> Thank you for your response. Now, I would like to ask if you have had any

> experience in getting insurance companies to pay for any forms of tram

flap

> or microvascular surgery for mastectomy women ?

>

> Most sincerely,

> Martha Murdock

> NSIF

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

> egroups < egroups>

> Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 10:20 PM

> Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

> >Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant surgery

> for

> >over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would not be

> >explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that in most

> >cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of silicone.

I

> >believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers. Remember

> that

> >every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

extraction,

> >so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the placement

of

> >foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and minimize the

> >risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

> >reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to

surgery

> >just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy before they

> >die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I try

to

> >identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them prior

to

> >explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat infections

> >before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

> >anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the instruments

> >were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her

> implants

> >removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

> >sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence of

> >autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the

ultimate

> >choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

> >immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological

disease.

> > Kolb M.D.

> >----- Original Message -----

> >From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@...>

> >< egroups>

> >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

> >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> >

> >

> >> Dear Dr. Kolb,

> >>

> >> Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA Hearings

the

> >> first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

possibility

> >of

> >> re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you and

> highly

> >> respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a woman,

> >such

> >> as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to silicone

> >(smooth

> >> or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a woman

to

> >> anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These situations

> have

> >> indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It cannot be

> >> pleasant!

> >>

> >> Most sincerely,

> >> Martha Murdock, Director

> >> National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> >> Dallas TX Headquarters

> >>

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

> >> egroups < egroups>

> >> Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

> >> Subject: Re: Question to this group

> >>

> >>

> >> >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the body

is

> >> >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants but the

> >> study

> >> >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be done.

With

> >> >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when researchers

> >looked

> >> >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors however

such

> >as

> >> >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the equation. If a

> >> women

> >> >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

> >sensitivity

> >> >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone

senisvity

> >> >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

> >> >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline is she

> >was

> >> >intent on having implants. Kolb.

> >> >----- Original Message -----

> >> >From: Patty <faussettdp@...>

> >> >< egroups>

> >> >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

> >> >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >> > Dr. Kolb,

> >> >> >

> >> >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that

> was

> >> >> about

> >> >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

> >replacing

> >> >> them

> >> >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

> >> >>

> >> >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured

implants

> >> >would

> >> >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now symptomatic?

> >> >>

> >> >> thanks!

> >> >> Patty

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Kolb,

Thank you again for your response to my questions re insurance coverage. I

continue to get more & more calls from mastectomy patients whose insurance

refuses to pay for anything other than implants for reconstruction.

I get many of these calls because I have been a Certified Employee Benefit

Consultant for nearly 20 years, with a background in actuarial science,

individual & group underwriting, and contract analyst. One of the most

recent contacts I had from a new mastectomy patient could never get her

insurance carrier to agree to pay for microvascular reconstructive surgery,

as she was not a candidate for any form of tram flap surgery. The real

mystery of this particular one is that her husband is a powerful attorney

informed on ERISA Law & Health Insurance Law.

I've only been researching this particular problem for a couple of weeks

now, however, I have yet to find a major insurance carrier or reinsurer that

agrees to pay for these forms of reconstructive breast surgery.

Thanks again for your help,

Martha Murdock

-----Original Message-----

From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

egroups < egroups>

Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 11:50 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

>Dear Martha: It is usually not difficult to get insurance coverage for

TRAM

>flap breast reconstruction for mastectomy patients. I have even gotton

>coverage for TRAM flap breast reconstruction after explantation if a

>deformity was present due to the explantation. This is usually only in

>patients with indemnity insurance. I have also been able on many occasions

>to get insurance coverage for saline explantation provided that local chest

>wall symptoms are present. We have been fortuanate that so many insurance

>companies still cover explantation in view of the recent press claiming

that

>silicone implants do not cause systemic disease. Kolb.

>----- Original Message -----

>From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@...>

>< egroups>

>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 11:43 PM

>Subject: Re: Question to this group

>

>

>> Dear Dr. Kolb,

>>

>> Thank you for your response. Now, I would like to ask if you have had

any

>> experience in getting insurance companies to pay for any forms of tram

>flap

>> or microvascular surgery for mastectomy women ?

>>

>> Most sincerely,

>> Martha Murdock

>> NSIF

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

>> egroups < egroups>

>> Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 10:20 PM

>> Subject: Re: Question to this group

>>

>>

>> >Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant surgery

>> for

>> >over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would not be

>> >explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe that in

most

>> >cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of silicone.

>I

>> >believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers. Remember

>> that

>> >every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

>extraction,

>> >so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the placement

>of

>> >foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and minimize

the

>> >risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

>> >reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior to

>surgery

>> >just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy before

they

>> >die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk because I try

>to

>> >identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat them prior

>to

>> >explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat infections

>> >before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic shock or

>> >anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the

instruments

>> >were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have her

>> implants

>> >removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get silicone

>> >sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have evidence of

>> >autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but the

>ultimate

>> >choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be reimplanted

>> >immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe neurological

>disease.

>> > Kolb M.D.

>> >----- Original Message -----

>> >From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@...>

>> >< egroups>

>> >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

>> >Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> >

>> >

>> >> Dear Dr. Kolb,

>> >>

>> >> Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA Hearings

>the

>> >> first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

>possibility

>> >of

>> >> re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend you and

>> highly

>> >> respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if a woman,

>> >such

>> >> as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to silicone

>> >(smooth

>> >> or textured shell), how could you consider possibly subjecting a woman

>to

>> >> anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These situations

>> have

>> >> indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It cannot

be

>> >> pleasant!

>> >>

>> >> Most sincerely,

>> >> Martha Murdock, Director

>> >> National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

>> >> Dallas TX Headquarters

>> >>

>> >> -----Original Message-----

>> >> From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@...>

>> >> egroups < egroups>

>> >> Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

>> >> Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into the body

>is

>> >> >probably less with smooth implants than with textured implants but

the

>> >> study

>> >> >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be done.

>With

>> >> >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when researchers

>> >looked

>> >> >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors however

>such

>> >as

>> >> >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the equation. If

a

>> >> women

>> >> >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a silcone

>> >sensitivity

>> >> >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the silicone

>senisvity

>> >> >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then if no

>> >> >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth saline is

she

>> >was

>> >> >intent on having implants. Kolb.

>> >> >----- Original Message -----

>> >> >From: Patty <faussettdp@...>

>> >> >< egroups>

>> >> >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

>> >> >Subject: Re: Question to this group

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >>

>> >> >> > Dr. Kolb,

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered, and that

>> was

>> >> >> about

>> >> >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better off

>> >replacing

>> >> >> them

>> >> >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had textured

>implants

>> >> >would

>> >> >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now

symptomatic?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> thanks!

>> >> >> Patty

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

[Guest guest]

I am not a bit confused, Dr. Kolb. (I would be happy to find your

posts and quote them for you.. I believe one of them is below). You

stated that you have saline implants. (I had previously read that

you were an explantee, but if you have saline replacements, you are

not explanted. You still have silicone in your body). If you felt

salines were dangerous, you would not likely have them. You also

stated that you provided the commentary for the " pro " part of

the " point/counterpoint " sidebar for the Glamour magazine saline

implant article.

This IS a forum for women who have been sickened by saline implants,

and for those who may be considering them.

I became ill from saline implants only. I never had silicone gel in

my body. Nearly half the women in my support group can say the same

thing.

You are NOT unbiased if you derive a portion of your income from

implanting women. Please do not insult me or the women of this group

by stating that you are unbiased.

If women are being helped by healing tips they receive from you here,

I am all for it. However, I would urge them very strongly to seek

the advice of a physician who will examine them and run tests as well.

But I do not feel you should, as a doctor who derives income from

implanting women, air your pro-saline-implant viewpoints on this

particular forum. My opinion, but also that of others who have

written to me about this.

I will still recommend you as an explanting surgeon, because one

women who received your name from me and was explanted by you wrote

back to me and is very happy with the results. I don't have a

problem with you, only the conflict of interest that results when you

express pro-implant views to a group of women who are sick from

them. I am sure you would not want to appear to be advertising.

Eileen Swanson

Survivors of Salines

www.homestead.com/sosalines/sos.html

> > > Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant

> > surgery for

> > > over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would

> > not be

> > > explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe

that

> > in most

> > > cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of

> > silicone. I

> > > believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers.

> > Remember that

> > > every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

> > extraction,

> > > so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the

> > placement of

> > > foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and

> > minimize the

> > > risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

> > > reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior

to

> > surgery

> > > just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy

> > before they

> > > die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk

because I

> > try to

> > > identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat

them

> > prior to

> > > explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat

> > infections

> > > before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic

shock or

> > > anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the

> > instruments

> > > were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have

her

> > implants

> > > removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get

silicone

> > > sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have

evidence

> > of

> > > autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but

the

> > ultimate

> > > choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be

reimplanted

> > > immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe

neurological

> > disease.

> > > Kolb M.D.

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@P...>

> > > < egroups>

> > > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

> > > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Dr. Kolb,

> > > >

> > > > Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA

> > Hearings the

> > > > first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

> > possibility

> > > of

> > > > re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend

you

> > and highly

> > > > respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if

a

> > woman,

> > > such

> > > > as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to

> > silicone

> > > (smooth

> > > > or textured shell), how could you consider possibly

subjecting a

> > woman to

> > > > anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These

> > situations have

> > > > indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It

> > cannot be

> > > > pleasant!

> > > >

> > > > Most sincerely,

> > > > Martha Murdock, Director

> > > > National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> > > > Dallas TX Headquarters

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@m...>

> > > > egroups < egroups>

> > > > Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into

the

> > body is

> > > > >probably less with smooth implants than with textured

implants

> > but the

> > > > study

> > > > >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be

> > done. With

> > > > >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when

> > researchers

> > > looked

> > > > >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors

> > however such

> > > as

> > > > >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the

> > equation. If a

> > > > women

> > > > >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a

silcone

> > > sensitivity

> > > > >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the

silicone

> > senisvity

> > > > >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then

if no

> > > > >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth

saline

> > is she

> > > was

> > > > >intent on having implants. Kolb.

> > > > >----- Original Message -----

> > > > >From: Patty <faussettdp@m...>

> > > > >< egroups>

> > > > >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

> > > > >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>

> > > > >> > Dr. Kolb,

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered,

and

> > that was

> > > > >> about

> > > > >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better

off

> > > replacing

> > > > >> them

> > > > >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had

textured

> > implants

> > > > >would

> > > > >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now

> > symptomatic?

> > > > >>

> > > > >> thanks!

> > > > >> Patty

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

[Guest guest]

I've been sitting back just watching this debate between Dr. Kolb and

others. I also don't understand why she would keep the implants but that is

her option to keep them. I knew that this was going to happen if people

continue to ask questions about why she keeps them in and keeps implanting

women. She's one of the few doctors that will help us and volunteer her time

online to answer question when we need help. I don't think this should be an

issue of why people do certain things. We are all here to help each other

and listen to each other, not to debate issues. It's good to have someone

like her around.

Thanks to Patty, Eileen, Dr. Kolb and all the others that I've spoke with

for helping me. I'm not close to a full recovery from those stupid bags that

I had in my chest but I feel I will get there someday.

[Guest guest]

Eileen: Please reread the questions that I was answering in the post that

you chose to attack me on. Your comments are the first that I have ever had

to deal with in over three years of communicating with women with problems

with implants. Martha asked her questions in an appropriate manner and I

answered them and she thanked me for responding in the next post. This is

the type of correspondance that I am used to. Please contact Ilena Rose and

asked her how I have helped many women who have nowhere else to turn. One

such women who was homeless from her silicone disease is now living in my

house until she can recovery enough to hold down a full time job. You are

confused in how you interpreted my answers and I do not appreciated being

verbally attacked. You know very little about me, my practice, or my

motives but before you judge me, you would be wise to gather information

from other support group leaders. You misintrepreted my post about the

Glamour magazine article in that they had designated me as the pro in the

pro versus con on the article but after an hour the reporter wondered why

they had done so. Again you should carefully reread the post to see how

your bias against me has influenced your perception. This is why I say you

are confused. Ask Patty why I got saline implants. She may be able to

explain to you why I have been given the role in this issue. I believe she

understands and hopefully can explain it to you. Directing you anger at me

is not likely to serve you . I will no longer be available to help with the

issues on this forum as your anger and prejudice are more important than

finding the solution to the adjuvant disease caused by implants which is

what I have been guided to research so that people such as are on this forum

may be helped. Kolb.

----- Original Message -----

From: Eileen <sosalines@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:47 PM

Subject: Re: Question to this group

> I am not a bit confused, Dr. Kolb. (I would be happy to find your

> posts and quote them for you.. I believe one of them is below). You

> stated that you have saline implants. (I had previously read that

> you were an explantee, but if you have saline replacements, you are

> not explanted. You still have silicone in your body). If you felt

> salines were dangerous, you would not likely have them. You also

> stated that you provided the commentary for the " pro " part of

> the " point/counterpoint " sidebar for the Glamour magazine saline

> implant article.

>

> This IS a forum for women who have been sickened by saline implants,

> and for those who may be considering them.

>

> I became ill from saline implants only. I never had silicone gel in

> my body. Nearly half the women in my support group can say the same

> thing.

>

> You are NOT unbiased if you derive a portion of your income from

> implanting women. Please do not insult me or the women of this group

> by stating that you are unbiased.

>

> If women are being helped by healing tips they receive from you here,

> I am all for it. However, I would urge them very strongly to seek

> the advice of a physician who will examine them and run tests as well.

>

> But I do not feel you should, as a doctor who derives income from

> implanting women, air your pro-saline-implant viewpoints on this

> particular forum. My opinion, but also that of others who have

> written to me about this.

>

> I will still recommend you as an explanting surgeon, because one

> women who received your name from me and was explanted by you wrote

> back to me and is very happy with the results. I don't have a

> problem with you, only the conflict of interest that results when you

> express pro-implant views to a group of women who are sick from

> them. I am sure you would not want to appear to be advertising.

>

> Eileen Swanson

> Survivors of Salines

> www.homestead.com/sosalines/sos.html

>

>

>

> > > > Dear Martha: I have saline implants and have been doing implant

> > > surgery for

> > > > over 18 years so I am well aware of the risks. Many women would

> > > not be

> > > > explanted if we did not put in saline implants and I believe

> that

> > > in most

> > > > cases the risk of smooth saline is much less than the risk of

> > > silicone. I

> > > > believe I give a complete informed consent about the dangers.

> > > Remember that

> > > > every so often a patient dies from surgery as simple as a tooth

> > > extraction,

> > > > so there is risk associated with all surgeries especially the

> > > placement of

> > > > foreign bodies. Our job should be to study this problem and

> > > minimize the

> > > > risks. We do need something to use for breast augmentation and

> > > > reconstruction. We need to identify the patients at risk prior

> to

> > > surgery

> > > > just as we can identify some patients with penicillin allergy

> > > before they

> > > > die of anaphylactic shock. I have a low complication risk

> because I

> > > try to

> > > > identify patients with depressed immune systems and pretreat

> them

> > > prior to

> > > > explant. I also educate women re the need to promptly treat

> > > infections

> > > > before they land on the implants. I have no cases of toxic

> shock or

> > > > anaphylaxsis. My worst complication in 18 years was when the

> > > instruments

> > > > were not sterilized in the military and my OR nurse had to have

> her

> > > implants

> > > > removed due to a mild infection. I encourage women to get

> silicone

> > > > sensitivity tests prior to being reimplanted if they have

> evidence

> > > of

> > > > autoimmune disease. My job is to provide informed consent but

> the

> > > ultimate

> > > > choice is the women's. I do encourage women not to be

> reimplanted

> > > > immediately if they have autoimmune disease or severe

> neurological

> > > disease.

> > > > Kolb M.D.

> > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > From: MARTHA <MAM-NSIF@P...>

> > > > < egroups>

> > > > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:36 AM

> > > > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Dr. Kolb,

> > > > >

> > > > > Knowing what we now know about saline implants (from the FDA

> > > Hearings the

> > > > > first of March, 2000), how can you, or any PS, even suggest a

> > > possibility

> > > > of

> > > > > re-implantation with saline implants? I strongly recommend

> you

> > > and highly

> > > > > respect your opinions regarding breast implants. However, if

> a

> > > woman,

> > > > such

> > > > > as me and others, has developed such a hypersensitivity to

> > > silicone

> > > > (smooth

> > > > > or textured shell), how could you consider possibly

> subjecting a

> > > woman to

> > > > > anaphylactic shock, toxic shock syndrome, or worse? These

> > > situations have

> > > > > indeed happened, and I wonder how do PS's deal with this? It

> > > cannot be

> > > > > pleasant!

> > > > >

> > > > > Most sincerely,

> > > > > Martha Murdock, Director

> > > > > National Silicone/Saline Implant Foundation

> > > > > Dallas TX Headquarters

> > > > >

> > > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > > From: Dr. Kolb <drkolb@m...>

> > > > > egroups < egroups>

> > > > > Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:39 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >Dear Patty: In theory, the amount of silicone released into

> the

> > > body is

> > > > > >probably less with smooth implants than with textured

> implants

> > > but the

> > > > > study

> > > > > >of quantifing the amount of silicone is capsules needs to be

> > > done. With

> > > > > >silcone gel versus saline the ratio is 1000 to one when

> > > researchers

> > > > looked

> > > > > >at the silcone in the capsules. There may be other factors

> > > however such

> > > > as

> > > > > >total body toxic load and HLA type that enter into the

> > > equation. If a

> > > > > women

> > > > > >had textured implants and was sick, I would recommend a

> silcone

> > > > sensitivity

> > > > > >test and if positive would recommend explant. If the

> silicone

> > > senisvity

> > > > > >test was negative I would try the detoxification first then

> if no

> > > > > >improvement, then explant with later reimplant of smooth

> saline

> > > is she

> > > > was

> > > > > >intent on having implants. Kolb.

> > > > > >----- Original Message -----

> > > > > >From: Patty <faussettdp@m...>

> > > > > >< egroups>

> > > > > >Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:14 PM

> > > > > >Subject: Re: Question to this group

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> > Dr. Kolb,

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > I think there was one question that didn't get answered,

> and

> > > that was

> > > > > >> about

> > > > > >> > the smooth shelled saline implants vs. the textured.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Would a person who has smooth shelled implants be better

> off

> > > > replacing

> > > > > >> them

> > > > > >> > with textured if they are symptomatic?

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Sorry, I messed that one up--I meant if someone had

> textured

> > > implants

> > > > > >would

> > > > > >> they be better off with smooth shelled, if they are now

> > > symptomatic?

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> thanks!

> > > > > >> Patty

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>