Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 if you have bart and ehrilchia ( as I did ) herbs will not do a thing if that is very progresed it took me 6 month of ABX to get read of ehrlichia ...but bart and neurolyme--need abx You need to know which band you have.if you have band 30 for lyme..that is typically neuro! y093666 <y093666@...> wrote: - I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative thank god) or abx. > > > > - > > Hi - > > > > I'd like to keep your email since you are in the same region of the > > country , had similar issues and you are having success. Is your email > > ponyrubs@? > > > > I've not got to he point of abx yet. Trying a couple of last > > alternative things (Biogetica)before abx. But I wondered, given the > > lack of LLMDs in NH (my PCP is wiling to prescribe abx.. but lacks the > > knowledge), if you could outline the dosage your LLMD used for doxy > > and amoxicillin? I was thinking about those two as well since they > > seem the least toxic. Did you have the stomach problems with Doxy that > > some complain of? Did you have severe herx's ( i work full time from > > home and tring ot continue to do so) Also , how did you determine to > > come off of ABX and switch to buhner. Are you using Buhner's core > > protocol as outline in book? ( iwas on buhner in addition to zhang > > when my I had huge explosion of CNS issues in July that I am still > > recovering from). Do you know of any other LLMD's in NH/MA you would > > trust/recommend? I think some of the dr's on the immunesupport.com > > recommended site for FMS/CFS are also willing to treat lyme. A friend > > of mine is working with a naturopath in maine on abx treatment-so far > > using really heavy hitting/abx and antivirals combined with zhang. 11 > > months and she says she still has a long way to go. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Have you ever thought it MIGHT be because you are taking BOTH? I would take one or the other, not both. I had trouble too, when I added other things into Buhner's protocol. Jim. ### y093666 <y093666@...> wrote: - I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative thank god) or abx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Who recommended the chlorella? If you are mercury toxic, and especially if you have amalgam fillings, chlorella could have caused your symptoms. It seems innocent enough, being a natural substance. But it will stir up mercury and can lead to redistribution which can make you a whole lot sicker. Did you ask Buhner about mixing the protocols? You may have had some unfortunate herb interactions. I hope you are doing better now. D. " y093666 " <y093666@...> wrote: > > - > I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of > garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia > treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you > switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that > while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune > herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem > until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx > reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then > andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I > notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. > foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered > more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come > and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell > broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles > jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point > of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the > buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I > think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was > diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. > Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer > and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the > zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could > have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if > it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang > himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative > thank god) or abx. > > > > > > > > > - > > > Hi - > > > > > > I'd like to keep your email since you are in the same region of the > > > country , had similar issues and you are having success. Is your email > > > ponyrubs@? > > > > > > I've not got to he point of abx yet. Trying a couple of last > > > alternative things (Biogetica)before abx. But I wondered, given the > > > lack of LLMDs in NH (my PCP is wiling to prescribe abx.. but lacks the > > > knowledge), if you could outline the dosage your LLMD used for doxy > > > and amoxicillin? I was thinking about those two as well since they > > > seem the least toxic. Did you have the stomach problems with Doxy that > > > some complain of? Did you have severe herx's ( i work full time from > > > home and tring ot continue to do so) Also , how did you determine to > > > come off of ABX and switch to buhner. Are you using Buhner's core > > > protocol as outline in book? ( iwas on buhner in addition to zhang > > > when my I had huge explosion of CNS issues in July that I am still > > > recovering from). Do you know of any other LLMD's in NH/MA you would > > > trust/recommend? I think some of the dr's on the immunesupport.com > > > recommended site for FMS/CFS are also willing to treat lyme. A friend > > > of mine is working with a naturopath in maine on abx treatment-so far > > > using really heavy hitting/abx and antivirals combined with zhang. 11 > > > months and she says she still has a long way to go. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I did consult with Dr. Zhang who said it was ok to combine both protocols. It could have been the combination , which is why I stopped both protocols to let my body come back. Although, I did have the muscle twitching, jerking, and light headed/weak legs feeling last fall (once after MRI with gadolinium.. i thought i was having gadolinium reaction...) I recovered quickly last fall and then later had the weak in knees/sick feeling in November. At that time I was on neither buhner or zhang. So it makes me think it is not connected to herbs and more to the summer heat /week i spent at beach leading up to the explosion of CNS. I don't know .. it sure is confusing. > - > I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of > garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia > treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you > switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that > while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune > herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem > until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx > reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then > andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I > notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. > foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered > more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come > and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell > broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles > jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point > of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the > buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I > think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was > diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. > Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer > and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the > zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could > have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if > it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang > himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative > thank god) or abx. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I must respectfully disagree. My daughter and I both have Bart. And we have only been using the herbs since The beginning of June and we have improved a lot. We have also used salt/c and just started the MMS. But most of our improvement has come from the CP of herbs, although, I do believe the MMS has been wonderful. -- Re: [ ] Re: I Feel Wonderful!!! if you have bart and ehrilchia ( as I did ) herbs will not do a thing if that is very progresed it took me 6 month of ABX to get read of ehrlichia ...but bart and neurolyme--need abx You need to know which band you have.if you have band 30 for lyme..that is typically neuro! y093666 <y093666@...> wrote: - I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative thank god) or abx. > > > > - > > Hi - > > > > I'd like to keep your email since you are in the same region of the > > country , had similar issues and you are having success. Is your email > > ponyrubs@? > > > > I've not got to he point of abx yet. Trying a couple of last > > alternative things (Biogetica)before abx. But I wondered, given the > > lack of LLMDs in NH (my PCP is wiling to prescribe abx.. but lacks the > > knowledge), if you could outline the dosage your LLMD used for doxy > > and amoxicillin? I was thinking about those two as well since they > > seem the least toxic. Did you have the stomach problems with Doxy that > > some complain of? Did you have severe herx's ( i work full time from > > home and tring ot continue to do so) Also , how did you determine to > > come off of ABX and switch to buhner. Are you using Buhner's core > > protocol as outline in book? ( iwas on buhner in addition to zhang > > when my I had huge explosion of CNS issues in July that I am still > > recovering from). Do you know of any other LLMD's in NH/MA you would > > trust/recommend? I think some of the dr's on the immunesupport.com > > recommended site for FMS/CFS are also willing to treat lyme. A friend > > of mine is working with a naturopath in maine on abx treatment-so far > > using really heavy hitting/abx and antivirals combined with zhang. 11 > > months and she says she still has a long way to go. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Dear Vjolica, You stated, regarding the Western Blot test for Lyme, " You need to know which band you have.if you have band 30 for lyme..that is typically neuro! " I'd like to know exactly where you got this data, please. Best, Cass A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 You might check with Buhner also, just in case, he knows of one of the herbs not compatible with the others. This whole thing is a bit confusing. Just when you start feeling good, you take a downturn for a few days, then it seems better again. At least that is my experience. Jim. ### y093666 <y093666@...> wrote: I did consult with Dr. Zhang who said it was ok to combine both protocols. It could have been the combination , which is why I stopped both protocols to let my body come back. Although, I did have the muscle twitching, jerking, and light headed/weak legs feeling last fall (once after MRI with gadolinium.. i thought i was having gadolinium reaction...) I recovered quickly last fall and then later had the weak in knees/sick feeling in November. At that time I was on neither buhner or zhang. So it makes me think it is not connected to herbs and more to the summer heat /week i spent at beach leading up to the explosion of CNS. I don't know .. it sure is confusing. > - > I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of > garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia > treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you > switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that > while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune > herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem > until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx > reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then > andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I > notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. > foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered > more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come > and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell > broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles > jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point > of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the > buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I > think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was > diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. > Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer > and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the > zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could > have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if > it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang > himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative > thank god) or abx. > --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Thanks VJ- I did test positive on IGG IGENEX test for lyme. Two lyme bands positive (31 and 41), the others were IND(23-25, 34,39). Band 30 did test positive, but that is not listed as a lyme band on IGENEX report? Is that right? So you do feel like abx is making a big difference for you? How long have you been on abx thus far? > > > > > > - > > > Hi - > > > > > > I'd like to keep your email since you are in the same region of the > > > country , had similar issues and you are having success. Is your email > > > ponyrubs@? > > > > > > I've not got to he point of abx yet. Trying a couple of last > > > alternative things (Biogetica)before abx. But I wondered, given the > > > lack of LLMDs in NH (my PCP is wiling to prescribe abx.. but lacks the > > > knowledge), if you could outline the dosage your LLMD used for doxy > > > and amoxicillin? I was thinking about those two as well since they > > > seem the least toxic. Did you have the stomach problems with Doxy that > > > some complain of? Did you have severe herx's ( i work full time from > > > home and tring ot continue to do so) Also , how did you determine to > > > come off of ABX and switch to buhner. Are you using Buhner's core > > > protocol as outline in book? ( iwas on buhner in addition to zhang > > > when my I had huge explosion of CNS issues in July that I am still > > > recovering from). Do you know of any other LLMD's in NH/MA you would > > > trust/recommend? I think some of the dr's on the immunesupport.com > > > recommended site for FMS/CFS are also willing to treat lyme. A friend > > > of mine is working with a naturopath in maine on abx treatment-so far > > > using really heavy hitting/abx and antivirals combined with zhang. 11 > > > months and she says she still has a long way to go. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Hi Vj, YOur email is rejected when I email vjbardhi at dot com. Is it something other than ? I don't use for my regular email id due to all the message board messages that get loaded daily. > > > > > > Hi, VJ, > > > > > > That's great! Have you seen Dr. Luby? I went to one of his Monday > > > night information thingies, and I was impressed with him. > > > > > > I've had Lyme since, at least, 1988 - diagnosed two years ago. At my > > > worst, I was in horrible pain, was stopping at green lights and kinda > > > checking out, ending up places I had no memory of driving to, and no > > > idea where I was or which way was home, having panic attacks, aural > > > hallucinations, horrible mood swings, anger, constant sweats, electric > > > shock sensations, loss of balance and coordination, exhaustion, > > > insomnia... > > > > > > I suspect Bartonella co-infection, but never did test for it. > > > > > > I'll continue the herbs for at least 18 months - probably will take a > > > low dose forever. That and my hot tub. > > > > > > Today, the chelation is kicking my ass just a bit. I still feel good, > > > but I have a, um, productive cough, and hoarseness, and a bit of > > > muscle weakness. The hot tub nearly wiped me out. Otherwise good, > > > though. I was able to do some demolition this afternoon - took > > > down some fencing and my chicken run with a sledge. Plus shop vac'd > > > water from the basement and carried gallons and gallons of water up > > > the stairs. I'm wiped! I'm staying up for my next dose of DMSA, then > > > crashing. > > > > > > D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Due to the complexities of various pathogens and toxins and different diets, etc., I thinks its best to agree that everyone can be correct. Herbs may work better for some, abx for others, and both abx and herbs and diets for others. I think we need to each try things to see what works and to keep sharing what has worked for us, so we can learn from other. Heidi N ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 I can help with a list of NH LLMDs if you'd like. e-mail me at eyebob@... I rarely check my e-mail or this board. BT y093666 <y093666@...> wrote: - I started zhang in December 2006 ( after a couple of months of garlic/oregano oil etc on my own). I started with the babesia treatment which included zhang artmesia the first 3 months.. than you switch out that for HH (some chinese herb that kills lyme) after that while you take the other stuff (allicin, cirulcation herbs, autoimmune herbs if you have eye symptoms/AI stuff). I didn't have a problem until summer. I started Buhner cat's claw in May (had a herx reaction).. then added reserveratrol/sarsarpillain June and then andrographis/chlorella on July 1. I also continued the zhang. I notices at the summer progressed start i june more neuro symptoms.. foot drag occasionally when I walked, eyes hurt more, eyes watered more, lightheaded all the time (previously the lightheaded would come and go). Then in july. .thumb twitching.. more lightheaded..all hell broke loose mid july when I lost balance, depth perception, muscles jerking, muscle twitching, insominia. intense brain fog to the point of nausea. I don't think it was zhang.. so it was either the buhner/too much for my body or the fact that it was summer which I think could point to autoimmune. My optic neuritis/neuropathy was diagnosed the previous July which points to the summer connection. Previous to that with my FMS diagnosis, my good time was the summer and I loved the heat! Long story short, I don't think it was the zhang stuff. I was disappointed that after 8 months on zhang I could have the worst set of symptoms I've ever had. I would have thought if it was working, it would have been sooner in the cycle. Even zhang himself said to stop his herbs and get consultation for MS(negative thank god) or abx. > > > > - > > Hi - > > > > I'd like to keep your email since you are in the same region of the > > country , had similar issues and you are having success. Is your email > > ponyrubs@? > > > > I've not got to he point of abx yet. Trying a couple of last > > alternative things (Biogetica)before abx. But I wondered, given the > > lack of LLMDs in NH (my PCP is wiling to prescribe abx.. but lacks the > > knowledge), if you could outline the dosage your LLMD used for doxy > > and amoxicillin? I was thinking about those two as well since they > > seem the least toxic. Did you have the stomach problems with Doxy that > > some complain of? Did you have severe herx's ( i work full time from > > home and tring ot continue to do so) Also , how did you determine to > > come off of ABX and switch to buhner. Are you using Buhner's core > > protocol as outline in book? ( iwas on buhner in addition to zhang > > when my I had huge explosion of CNS issues in July that I am still > > recovering from). Do you know of any other LLMD's in NH/MA you would > > trust/recommend? I think some of the dr's on the immunesupport.com > > recommended site for FMS/CFS are also willing to treat lyme. A friend > > of mine is working with a naturopath in maine on abx treatment-so far > > using really heavy hitting/abx and antivirals combined with zhang. 11 > > months and she says she still has a long way to go. > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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