Re: OT: some current research efforts

[Guest guest]

Well, the idea of the genetics work I think is to see if they can interrupt the

genetics eventually. Dr Donta in Boston is one of the researchers involved with

that work.

Also, researchers are hard at work now trying to decipher what is causing the

chronic fatigue syndrome. I think they've switched their thinking from a mouse

virus back to a human retrovirus theory.

On the patient front, Stanford is coming in soon with a research project that

will help doctors recognize the various Lyme clinical symptom clusters.

On the tick front, they're experimenting with ways to interrupt the efficacy of

tick saliva - you know, it does a lot, like anesthetize us, evade our immune

system, etc, so they're looking for ways to mess with the ticks' abilities.

They're also experimenting with high-pressure plant compound sprays (Alaskan

cedar nootkatone and carvacrol) to kill ticks on the ground. Results so far: 42

days!

[ ] Re: cowden 70% effective

>

> So it involves a paradigm shift in thinking for the medical field, and we

unfortunately happen to be ahead of them at this point, altho I don't see why

they couldn't be following the medical research that's going on now with all the

bugs to see how they work and could be treated - that's very scientific ongoing

work. when you say it suggests we don't understand the disease, well, no one

does exactly - they're still finding out how all the bugs work, their various

strains, etc. They've just gotten the complete DNA for 13 Lyme strains, I think.

Yes, I think we need a paradigm shift here. I don't think LD research will get

much further with just Borrelia genetics or biochemistry (just like knowing your

own genetic code will tell you very little about your personal health). IMHO

Borrelia genetics is just one part of the big puzzle.

Maybe quorum sensing is going to bring new concepts of disease and treatment,

but for now it is a new universe where we now very little.

But it's interesting for me to see that some of the Buhner herbs seem to rely on

quorum sensing for their medical benefit.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Well, the idea of the genetics work I think is to see if they can interrupt

the genetics eventually. Dr Donta in Boston is one of the researchers involved

with that work.

>

> Also, researchers are hard at work now trying to decipher what is causing the

chronic fatigue syndrome. I think they've switched their thinking from a mouse

virus back to a human retrovirus theory.

eventually they should be able to find hard links between certain genetic traits

in parasites and disease; but IMHO this is unlikely to happen because quite

often the basic genetic code turns out to be pretty indefinite, with the

environment playing a major role for the outcome.

One interesting subject is that some Bb strains seem to be much more virulent,

persistent or ABX-resistant than others. If they can pin this down, it could

help with diagnosis and treatment. Ben Luft has made remarks about this several

times and suggests that there are Bb strains that cause EM but only

self-limiting disease (e.g. you don't need treatment), while other strains

produce no EM but cause persistent infection anyway.

Another subject is the Bb prophage that I wrote about in my article.

Theoretically it is easy to use this to kill all the Borrelia in your body, you

only have to activate it with Flagyl or a similar chemical. Reality is often a

bit more complicated though ...

It's mostly a slow grind, and with all the IDSA opposition to good research it

will probably take years before we see benefit for patients.

Btw, what happened to the neurotoxin gene that Donta wrote about long abo,

Bbtox1? Haven't heard about it since in the scientific press.

> On the tick front, they're experimenting with ways to interrupt the efficacy

of tick saliva - you know, it does a lot, like anesthetize us, evade our immune

system, etc, so they're looking for ways to mess with the ticks' abilities.

Yes, there is a group in my country working on an anti-tick vaccine based on

such research. This is more promising that anti-Borrelia vaccines (way too much

problems with that). It could be used to cause the tick to drop off quickly

after attachment; this has been used with cattle for a long time already,

probably not for humans because until now it was not very effective (like 70-80%

decline in infections).

> They're also experimenting with high-pressure plant compound sprays (Alaskan

cedar nootkatone and carvacrol) to kill ticks on the ground. Results so far: 42

days!

our government is going to start a new trial into killing ticks with the

American 4-poster devices, and some other ways. I don't see much promise there,

it is practically impossible 9and expensive) to kill all the ticks. Other

research shows that even if you kill 95% of the ticks the lyme infection rates

do not go down dramatically. It is a complex problem

[Guest guest]

isn't dr. donta in the camp that does not believe in chronic lyme? would

this bias effect the research?

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:54 AM, knot_weed <tek0nik@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Well, the idea of the genetics work I think is to see if they can

> interrupt the genetics eventually. Dr Donta in Boston is one of the

> researchers involved with that work.

> >

> > Also, researchers are hard at work now trying to decipher what is causing

> the chronic fatigue syndrome. I think they've switched their thinking from a

> mouse virus back to a human retrovirus theory.

>

> eventually they should be able to find hard links between certain genetic

> traits in parasites and disease; but IMHO this is unlikely to happen because

> quite often the basic genetic code turns out to be pretty indefinite, with

> the environment playing a major role for the outcome.

>

> One interesting subject is that some Bb strains seem to be much more

> virulent, persistent or ABX-resistant than others. If they can pin this

> down, it could help with diagnosis and treatment. Ben Luft has made remarks

> about this several times and suggests that there are Bb strains that cause

> EM but only self-limiting disease (e.g. you don't need treatment), while

> other strains produce no EM but cause persistent infection anyway.

>

> Another subject is the Bb prophage that I wrote about in my article.

> Theoretically it is easy to use this to kill all the Borrelia in your body,

> you only have to activate it with Flagyl or a similar chemical. Reality is

> often a bit more complicated though ...

>

> It's mostly a slow grind, and with all the IDSA opposition to good research

> it will probably take years before we see benefit for patients.

>

> Btw, what happened to the neurotoxin gene that Donta wrote about long abo,

> Bbtox1? Haven't heard about it since in the scientific press.

>

>

> > On the tick front, they're experimenting with ways to interrupt the

> efficacy of tick saliva - you know, it does a lot, like anesthetize us,

> evade our immune system, etc, so they're looking for ways to mess with the

> ticks' abilities.

>

> Yes, there is a group in my country working on an anti-tick vaccine based

> on such research. This is more promising that anti-Borrelia vaccines (way

> too much problems with that). It could be used to cause the tick to drop off

> quickly after attachment; this has been used with cattle for a long time

> already, probably not for humans because until now it was not very effective

> (like 70-80% decline in infections).

>

>

> > They're also experimenting with high-pressure plant compound sprays

> (Alaskan cedar nootkatone and carvacrol) to kill ticks on the ground.

> Results so far: 42 days!

>

> our government is going to start a new trial into killing ticks with the

> American 4-poster devices, and some other ways. I don't see much promise

> there, it is practically impossible 9and expensive) to kill all the ticks.

> Other research shows that even if you kill 95% of the ticks the lyme

> infection rates do not go down dramatically. It is a complex problem

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> isn't dr. donta in the camp that does not believe in chronic lyme? would

> this bias effect the research?

Donta definitely believes in chronic Lyme, has treated many chronic Lyme

patients and has written several good articles about it.

[Guest guest]

Don't mean to butt-in, however:

You can hear (and watch) Dr. Sam Donta (from recent - here, bottom right of

webpage) - from what I know he is a wonderful guy, really one of the best:

SEE:

Diagnostics and Diagnosis Part 2

4:40 pm Panel: Challenges for Clinicians in Diagnosis and Management of Chronic

Illness Manifestations: Knowledge Gaps

http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/iom/101011/#

I believe (from a friend who was treated by him) that Dr. Donta is in the " add

Plaquenil " camp, on the premise that this helps anti-biotic penetration into

certain bodily tissue. - I also think (but could be wrong on both of these

items)that he may be " semi-retired " .

He is however, one of the very-few LLMD's who actually is an INFECTIOUS DISEASE

Dr. - where many others are Rheumatologists, and other things.

Years ago - Dr. Donta was one of the 2 Dr's on the original IDSA Lyme-Treatment

Guildelines Panel(along with Dr. Ben Luft) who held out and weren't so eager to

dismiss persistant/chronic Lyme - and then he stuck to his princibples and was

" some-how-or-another " forced to step down, before the original guidelines were

finalized.

-

> >

> > isn't dr. donta in the camp that does not believe in chronic lyme? would

> > this bias effect the research?

>

> Donta definitely believes in chronic Lyme, has treated many chronic Lyme

patients and has written several good articles about it.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Diagnostics and Diagnosis Part 2

> 4:40 pm Panel: Challenges for Clinicians in Diagnosis and Management of

Chronic Illness Manifestations: Knowledge Gaps

>

> http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/iom/101011/#

thanks, interesting link! I'm going to check them out

there are several other interesting speakers.

do you know the status of this 'Institute of Medicine'?

how does it fit in between the CDC, IDSA bastions like Yale etc., when it comes

to Lyme? I'm interested because of the situation in my country ...

> I believe (from a friend who was treated by him) that Dr. Donta is in the " add

Plaquenil " camp, on the premise that this helps anti-biotic penetration into

certain bodily tissue. - I also think (but could be wrong on both of these

items)that he may be " semi-retired " .

both correct AFAIK.

for Plaquenil it is interesting to note that this is used with several other

'auto-immune diseases', without any obvious explanation why it works. And of

course it is an anti-malaria drug ... sounds very much like an antimicrobial

drug

> Years ago - Dr. Donta was one of the 2 Dr's on the original IDSA

Lyme-Treatment Guildelines Panel(along with Dr. Ben Luft) who held out and

weren't so eager to dismiss persistant/chronic Lyme - and then he stuck to his

princibples and was " some-how-or-another " forced to step down, before the

original guidelines were finalized.

Yes, that was really sad. Ben Luft is one of my favorites currently, he does

excellent research (but he is very cautious when it comes to the political

issues involving lyme). I think there are more dissenters though. Alan Barbour

has repeatedly stated something to the tune that there are two variations of

lyme: the one that the IDSA calls LD and that is relatively rare, easy to detect

and cure, and the other one that is far more common and is difficult to detect

and cure. By definition the IDSA only cares about the rare, 'easy' variety.

I think many of the US researchers don't speak out because they are afraid of

their position. Barbour is a (micro?)biologist and AFAIK director of a large

bioweapons facility now. He has written many good articles about Borrelia, he

should know (like Burgdorfer etc.).

Current IDSA doctrine comes from a few totally clueless MD's who know nothing

about science and very little about microbiology, biochemistry etc. I hope that

one day we will get rid of these idiots who want to keep us in the Dark Ages

with their witchhunts