Re: Nosodes- Biogetica/Buhner etc. confused.

October 4, 2007

Are you taking cleansers? When killing candida, borrelia and friends,

you may have floating metals around making lots of neuro and other

symptoms... My opinion.

did you start on the protocols slowly?

Did you take Zhang + Buhner in combo without ramping?

Hope you'll find what's causing these bad reactions.

Selma

>

> Has anyone tried the nosode therapy on the biogetica site? The

> reference is compelling. I tried Zhang for 8 months and Buhner in

> combo with zhang cat's claw for 2 1/2 months ( cat's claw 2.5 mo,

> reservatrol 1.5 mo, andrographis 2 weeks, similax 5 weeks) when all

> heck broke loose with powerful and new nervous system issues

(thought

> i had MS but saw MS specialist and with MRI was told I don't have

MS).

> I'm still suffering with the major neuro symptoms 2.5 months later

> from flare that have not resolved.(brain fog, nervous system jittery

> feel nauseaus, muscles jerking/twitching, eyes hurt, spacial sense

all

> off , foot drag etc. Currently on 2nd candida cleanse/gluten free

> diet/candida herbs when amish herbalist told me that was my

problem.

> Optic neuritis though is not a candida symptom as far as I can

tell.

> This is all so discouraging. ABX looks really scary and I wonder

> about long term effects on my organs and i'm yet to find someone in

> remission/recovered from abx. What do you all think of nosodes? Did

> anyone have a dramatic worsening of symptoms that lasted for several

> months on buhner's protocol and then went onto improve? I thought a

> " herx " only lasted for maybe a couple of weeks? Trying to determine

if

> all the herbs made me worse or what. I do believe a week in

beach/sun

> somehow set it off. Optic neuritis also emerged in summer/july 2006

> same months. So something going on with the sunlight/heat. I test

> negative for auto-immune and positive western blot from IGENX 9 2

bands.

>

> http://www.biogetica.com/lyme-disease.html

>

October 4, 2007

Selma-

BTW my first name is Selma too!

I started zhang protocol in December 2006- Artemesia (3 months),

circp, allicin(garlic), plus AI (auto immune zhang for my optic

neuropathy per advice of dr. zhang via email). April 2006 switched to

zhang HH (for lyme- strong chinese herb),continued circp and allicin

and AI. Meanwhile takinglots of supplements:turmeric, eye formula

(bilberry, lutein etc), mushroom nerve complex by new chapter, ALA, B

complex, fish oil, magnesium,coq10. In May added while on zhang cat's

claw whole plant tincuture slowly to 4 dropper fulls /day. June added

reserveratrol slowly and sarsaprilla, July added andrographis. Also

was taking Chlorella, As summer progessed more lightehead until major

nervous explosion in july 2nd week. Stopped buhner /zhang since i was

concerned about autoimmune and wondering if it was making things

worse. So i was taking cleansers of chlorelle an sarsaprilla. I had

new symptoms and explosion of nervous system that was so scary and

nothing like I ever experienced. I am still recovering 2 1/2 months

later. Weak legs are getting stronger, balance is getting better, stil

lightheaded but better, coordination getting better.. but not wher eI

was prior to july. Before then I thought I only had an eye problem

with lightheaded/cognitive issues and muscle pain. Now I feel like

something is deep in my nervous system,, i'm shaky etc, legs are weak.

I am discouraged by all the herbs i was taking thining it was making

me better.. was wondering if you could have a herx that last 2 months

are longer.. if herbs are working? I'm not on buhner/zhang right now.

Continuing other supplements: chlorlla, turmeric, eye supplent, b

vitamins , cod liver oil, flax oil etc.. plus gluten free/dairy free

whole foods diet. Doing candida cleanse per famous herbalist "

Wickey " . Also my dr. started me on a drug Low Dose Naltrexone (very

low dose/toxicity for possible autoimmune . considering these nosodes

from Biogetica... 3 months money back guaranee. I have studied herbs

for 9 years since first diagnosed with what I thougt was Fibromyalgia,

but I feel like the herbs are letting me down and discouraged by that.

I'm 45 years old right now and love to hike , garden and be active..

so this has been really scary especially have leading an wheat free.

organic/free range diet and exercise /herbs for 9 years now.

>

> Are you taking cleansers? When killing candida, borrelia and friends,

> you may have floating metals around making lots of neuro and other

> symptoms... My opinion.

>

> did you start on the protocols slowly?

>

> Did you take Zhang + Buhner in combo without ramping?

>

> Hope you'll find what's causing these bad reactions.

>

> Selma

>

October 4, 2007

Hi homonym!!

I don't know what to say. It seems you were taking lots of killers

when the collapse happened. Man, you can stand 4 dropperful samento??

I don't know how much you were taking of everything, but it sounds

for me waaaay too fast and too much. If I had fibro and autoimmune

suspicions, I don't know, I would do things much gentler and slower.

But that's me!!

Turmeric itself kills, garlic/ allicin kills, HH I " m not sure, but it

seems it kills, then mushrooms make your body stronger to kill, ALA

(I wouldn't take this without having done metal detox for quite a

while as it can move metals to the brain), most Buhner's herbs kill

(directly or indirectly, even sarsaparilla kills),... well, for me it

LOOKS like you did excess of killing and possibly, only chlorella was

not doing the job of cleansing??

Just a guess. When I was killing a lot I was on many cleansers many

times a day to have a livable day. Otherwise, I was in hell.

A herx can kill. Just know it by heart. Many people with lyme have

got problems with toxin load after starting killing.

Have you seen the article I copy-pasted about strong herxes? It can

kill and it does kill sometimes, if you dont' clean properly.

Zhang should be knowledgeable about that, I suppose. Were you seeing

the man?

It could be that herbs were not abandoning you, but that they did

exactly the opposite, they killed a lot for you, but your body was

not able to eliminate (no one is able to eliminate ilimited amounts

of toxins). We need help there too.

I'm not sure if what I say is valid for you, but that's what

it 'seems' to me.

I haven't seen milk thistle in your list. I hope you are taking it or

any other liver support.

Hope others will tell what they think.

I do hope you didn't get permanent damage. That's the danger when

killing too much. I think every one of us have already passed through

that.

How much chlorella are you taking a day?

I hope you'll get back where you were before!

Another of my proverbs: a toxic body cannot heal. It cannot cleanse,

it cannot kill, no matter what you take to kill, it won't kill.

We're almost the same age too (I'm 41).

Hang on!

Selma

> I started zhang protocol in December 2006- Artemesia (3 months),

> circp, allicin(garlic), plus AI (auto immune zhang for my optic

> neuropathy per advice of dr. zhang via email). April 2006 switched

to

> zhang HH (for lyme- strong chinese herb),continued circp and allicin

> and AI. Meanwhile takinglots of supplements:turmeric, eye formula

> (bilberry, lutein etc), mushroom nerve complex by new chapter, ALA,

B

> complex, fish oil, magnesium,coq10. In May added while on zhang

cat's

> claw whole plant tincuture slowly to 4 dropper fulls /day. June

added

> reserveratrol slowly and sarsaprilla, July added andrographis. Also

> was taking Chlorella, As summer progessed more lightehead until

major

> nervous explosion in july 2nd week. Stopped buhner /zhang since i

was

> concerned about autoimmune and wondering if it was making things

> worse. So i was taking cleansers of chlorelle an sarsaprilla. I had

> new symptoms and explosion of nervous system that was so scary and

> nothing like I ever experienced. I am still recovering 2 1/2 months

> later. Weak legs are getting stronger, balance is getting better,

stil

> lightheaded but better, coordination getting better.. but not wher

eI

> was prior to july. Before then I thought I only had an eye problem

> with lightheaded/cognitive issues and muscle pain. Now I feel like

> something is deep in my nervous system,, i'm shaky etc, legs are

weak.

> I am discouraged by all the herbs i was taking thining it was making

> me better.. was wondering if you could have a herx that last 2

months

> are longer.. if herbs are working? I'm not on buhner/zhang right

now.

> Continuing other supplements: chlorlla, turmeric, eye supplent, b

> vitamins , cod liver oil, flax oil etc.. plus gluten free/dairy free

> whole foods diet. Doing candida cleanse per famous

herbalist "

> Wickey " . Also my dr. started me on a drug Low Dose Naltrexone (very

> low dose/toxicity for possible autoimmune . considering these

nosodes

> from Biogetica... 3 months money back guaranee. I have studied

herbs

> for 9 years since first diagnosed with what I thougt was

Fibromyalgia,

> but I feel like the herbs are letting me down and discouraged by

that.

> I'm 45 years old right now and love to hike , garden and be active..

> so this has been really scary especially have leading an wheat free.

> organic/free range diet and exercise /herbs for 9 years now.

>

October 5, 2007

I am afraid is bartonella and neuro lyme.I am afraid you need to try the ABX.I

did the same thing did tons of herbs( even they saved my life ) ,homepathic

formula ,rife ,detox ,IV blood irradiation --but got worst on neuro

....problems...

Did muscle testing with my MD and came up bartonella ...very strong _muschle

twitching was horrible..my face and body beyong twitching....-tooth infections

-10 root canals removed ....had to start ABX.. At the same time ,herbs , detox,

cleansing , clorella , cilantro , homepathic formula ( several ) supportof

Kidney ,lymph ,liver , IRT and ton of other things.

My tremors stoped ,my muscle twitching is less here and than ..my spine pain

is gone( I was herxing on ABX and it took 3 months for the spine shoulder ,brain

sweellling to slow down .I insisted on BARTONELLA first and that was

true...still have not treated BABS yet .NOW , I am working ..my brain sweelling

got better ..but I guess Bart had a big place on it.I did see my Dr again today

...Bartonella is still there and still treating...When nervous system has been

atacked that you have bartonella there...that makes the neuro even worst.My

exsperience I tried to avoid ABX but I guess my body needed them badly to get it

in controll as all the herbs and homepathic formula could not help at the late

stage I was .It is hard to beet bart with herbs..even though I am using Knotweed

,Stephania ..and all ` herbs with ABX rifing , IRT ( but stopped IV

blood irradiation -but that was VERY helpful too but $$$$$) adjustments weekly

at the chiropractic`s office .

So you need to try everything before gets deep in your nervous system and does

more damage just so you can controll it until you feel that something works for

you at the level of the infection you are.

DETOXING IS MAJOR .

My two cents .Every body is diferent !

Hope you get better

selmanaka <hardynaka@...> wrote:

Are you taking cleansers? When killing candida, borrelia and friends,

you may have floating metals around making lots of neuro and other

symptoms... My opinion.

did you start on the protocols slowly?

Did you take Zhang + Buhner in combo without ramping?

Hope you'll find what's causing these bad reactions.

Selma

October 6, 2007

Hi VJ, I agree with you that bartonella is not enough considered by lyme

sufferers, despite

the fact that in some areas, it seems that there are more ticks carrying bart

than borrelia!!

It may be that borrelia will be considered a coinfection in the future, while

bart would be

the first infection !!!

All 2 infected bites I got had bart. My daughter got infected last year, and

bart was there

too. I suspect bart is a very common co-infection that causes bad inflamation

symptoms

(specially in the brain). Many think it's an easy coinfection to treat (because

cats seem to

carry it and few take it seriously). It's an extremely stubborn pathogen and it

does cause

many symptoms and I believe the bart from cat and bart from tick are different

diseases.

Hope you're doing a bit better. I also totally agree that detox is essential,

probably even

more important than killing in the middle/ late phases of treatment (when one is

not

anymore fearing for one's own life anymore). In the first phases, killing is as

important as

detox, but in later phases, if we're thinking to get lyme to remission, I feel

the only way

out is concentrating on detox too!!

Selma

>

> I am afraid is bartonella and neuro lyme.I am afraid you need to try the ABX.I

did the

same thing did tons of herbs( even they saved my life ) ,homepathic

formula ,rife ,detox ,IV blood irradiation --but got worst on neuro

....problems...

> Did muscle testing with my MD and came up bartonella ...very strong _muschle

twitching was horrible..my face and body beyong twitching....-tooth infections

-10 root

canals removed ....had to start ABX.. At the same time ,herbs , detox,

cleansing , clorella ,

cilantro , homepathic formula ( several ) supportof Kidney ,lymph ,liver , IRT

and ton of

other things.

>

October 6, 2007

Selma-

I took cat's claw tincture as opposed to Samento which I think is the

TOA free brand? I found cat's claw relaxing and actually made me

sleep better. I did feel like I got some herx in the beginning on

cat's claw (more eye pain/headache). I forgot to mention that all of

the CNS problems started jully 2006 with optic neuritis in right eye

with some loss of vision (dim ,loss of contrast) which is really

scary. That was original queue that I was dealing with more than FMS.

Both eyes have continued to hurt off and on since July 2006 with

lightheaded/spaced out feeling until July 2007 when nervous system

explosion... although I did notice some minor balance /coordinatio

issues. nothing like now. It is strange that I had both major new

symptoms develop in summer/July so it makes me wonder about auto

immune versus Lyme. It's all so confusing. What do you think of the

Biogetica claims and 90 day money back guarantee? Does anyone have any

sucess stories of long term abx use? I am suspicous of that since my

experience with my youngest daughter who had chronic ear infections

around 1 year of old was that abx worked while on , but as soon as you

go off you fall even harder. After the 4th round of abx we switched

to homeopathic/anthrosophic dr. and she got better and stayed better.

Ear infection bouts were less intense and she healed and within 6

months she was totally better and never had ear infection since. Does

anyone know LLMD's success rate with abx? Now trying to decide to

stick with 's advice ( he is amish/no phone I write to him-

right now he is insisting it is all candida infection-on 2nd cleanse

with his herbs now), look at Dr Jernigan herbs, look at abx(very scary

to me), go back to buhner (zhang herbs too expensive already sunk 2500

into that . i was working with an osteopath who uses zhang and

emailing zhang). Wondering about sauna for cleansing.. i used to use

that at YMCS when kids had swim lessons in 8 years ago when I thought

I just had FMS and made me feel better. In a quandry. I don' t know

what to do but I know there is and endless road of options out there

and i won't give up!

>

> Hi homonym!!

>

> I don't know what to say. It seems you were taking lots of killers

> when the collapse happened. Man, you can stand 4 dropperful samento??

>

> I don't know how much you were taking of everything, but it sounds

> for me waaaay too fast and too much. If I had fibro and autoimmune

> suspicions, I don't know, I would do things much gentler and slower.

> But that's me!!

>

> Turmeric itself kills, garlic/ allicin kills, HH I " m not sure, but it

> seems it kills, then mushrooms make your body stronger to kill, ALA

> (I wouldn't take this without having done metal detox for quite a

> while as it can move metals to the brain), most Buhner's herbs kill

> (directly or indirectly, even sarsaparilla kills),... well, for me it

> LOOKS like you did excess of killing and possibly, only chlorella was

> not doing the job of cleansing??

>

> Just a guess. When I was killing a lot I was on many cleansers many

> times a day to have a livable day. Otherwise, I was in hell.

>

> A herx can kill. Just know it by heart. Many people with lyme have

> got problems with toxin load after starting killing.

>

> Have you seen the article I copy-pasted about strong herxes? It can

> kill and it does kill sometimes, if you dont' clean properly.

>

> Zhang should be knowledgeable about that, I suppose. Were you seeing

> the man?

>

> It could be that herbs were not abandoning you, but that they did

> exactly the opposite, they killed a lot for you, but your body was

> not able to eliminate (no one is able to eliminate ilimited amounts

> of toxins). We need help there too.

>

> I'm not sure if what I say is valid for you, but that's what

> it 'seems' to me.

>

> I haven't seen milk thistle in your list. I hope you are taking it or

> any other liver support.

>

> Hope others will tell what they think.

>

> I do hope you didn't get permanent damage. That's the danger when

> killing too much. I think every one of us have already passed through

> that.

>

> How much chlorella are you taking a day?

>

> I hope you'll get back where you were before!

>

> Another of my proverbs: a toxic body cannot heal. It cannot cleanse,

> it cannot kill, no matter what you take to kill, it won't kill.

>

> We're almost the same age too (I'm 41).

>

> Hang on!

>

> Selma

October 6, 2007

I tested negative for bartonella according to IGENX. I only had

bartonella and lyme testing done. I know the testing is not 100%.

Which causees optic neuritis.. lyme , bartonella or babesia? I've read

optic issues are caused by lyme. I think I've read info by dr K

saying it is usually caused by babesia. I took zhang armtemsia so I

would have thought that would have nailed it but still have eye pain.

>

> Hi VJ, I agree with you that bartonella is not enough considered by

lyme sufferers, despite

> the fact that in some areas, it seems that there are more ticks

carrying bart than borrelia!!

> It may be that borrelia will be considered a coinfection in the

future, while bart would be

> the first infection !!!

>

> All 2 infected bites I got had bart. My daughter got infected last

year, and bart was there

> too. I suspect bart is a very common co-infection that causes bad

inflamation symptoms

> (specially in the brain). Many think it's an easy coinfection to

treat (because cats seem to

> carry it and few take it seriously). It's an extremely stubborn

pathogen and it does cause

> many symptoms and I believe the bart from cat and bart from tick are

different diseases.

>

> Hope you're doing a bit better. I also totally agree that detox is

essential, probably even

> more important than killing in the middle/ late phases of treatment

(when one is not

> anymore fearing for one's own life anymore). In the first phases,

killing is as important as

> detox, but in later phases, if we're thinking to get lyme to

remission, I feel the only way

> out is concentrating on detox too!!

>

> Selma

>

October 7, 2007

Hi Selma,

I hope you are doing well! Contributing valuable jewels of wisdom

as always, I see.

I just wanted to agree with you about co-infections.

I think they shouldn't even be called " co-infections " as that seems to

imply they are lesser in importance to Lyme, when in fact, they can be

worse than the Bb infection.

We should never treat them as an afterthought!

Blessings to you,

Connie

www.lymebytes.blogspot.com

>

> Hi VJ, I agree with you that bartonella is not enough considered by

lyme sufferers, despite

> the fact that in some areas, it seems that there are more ticks

carrying bart than borrelia!!

> It may be that borrelia will be considered a coinfection in the

future, while bart would be

> the first infection !!!

>

> All 2 infected bites I got had bart. My daughter got infected last

year, and bart was there

> too. I suspect bart is a very common co-infection that causes bad

inflamation symptoms

> (specially in the brain). Many think it's an easy coinfection to

treat (because cats seem to

> carry it and few take it seriously). It's an extremely stubborn

pathogen and it does cause

> many symptoms and I believe the bart from cat and bart from tick are

different diseases.

>

> Hope you're doing a bit better. I also totally agree that detox is

essential, probably even

> more important than killing in the middle/ late phases of treatment

(when one is not

> anymore fearing for one's own life anymore). In the first phases,

killing is as important as

> detox, but in later phases, if we're thinking to get lyme to

remission, I feel the only way

> out is concentrating on detox too!!

>

> Selma

>

> >

> > I am afraid is bartonella and neuro lyme.I am afraid you need to

try the ABX.I did the

> same thing did tons of herbs( even they saved my life ) ,homepathic

> formula ,rife ,detox ,IV blood irradiation --but got worst on neuro

....problems...

> > Did muscle testing with my MD and came up bartonella ...very

strong _muschle

> twitching was horrible..my face and body beyong twitching....-tooth

infections -10 root

> canals removed ....had to start ABX.. At the same time ,herbs ,

detox, cleansing , clorella ,

> cilantro , homepathic formula ( several ) supportof Kidney ,lymph

,liver , IRT and ton of

> other things.

> >

>

October 7, 2007

Hi:

I am wondering WHY you take Cat's Claw in tincture form? Buhner recommends

it in capsule form.

I never have problems with herxes. BUT I take plenty of red Root tincture,

and also Milk THistle and Sarsaparilla for cleansing. When I was on abx I also

took probiotics. BUt the abx made me feel bad anyway. So I quit them. Only

herbs now.

Jim

###

y093666 <y093666@...> wrote: