Guest guest Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 If you are open to it, your husband might try using colloidal silver (CS) in his nasal passages. Just clean out a nasal spray bottle, rinse with distilled water, and add CS. Some people have good results from this. > > > > > > i have read that in a scientific experiment they put one Bb infected > > mouse > > > with an non infected mouse and after a certain amount of time the other > > one > > > showed infection. they both were female! > > > > mice can transmit Borrelia through their urine, so this does not require > > blood contact. Probably the urine has to make contact with the eye or other > > mucous areas, because Borrelia cannot survice on the skin or penetrate it. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 According the Texas Public Health web site and I quote that bacteria can be transmitted by ticks and fleas and possibly other insects. I called and spoke to head epitimologist (spelled wrong) and he told me that in 1990's they tested fleas from 10 counties in Texas and found the bacteria in the gut of the fleas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 did he only say that the fleas had the bacteria in their gut or did he also say they could be transmitted, as there are diseases that an animal can have that will not transmit to humans. i guess my question is did he say yes, fleas can transmit the bacteria or only that they found the bacteria in the fleas? On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Tessa McCall <mccall1709@...>wrote: > > > According the Texas Public Health web site and I quote that bacteria can be > transmitted by ticks and fleas and possibly other insects. I called and > spoke to head epitimologist (spelled wrong) and he told me that in 1990's > they tested fleas from 10 counties in Texas and found the bacteria in the > gut of the fleas. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 People have reported getting Lyme disease from sand fleas. Re: [ ] Re: Bb transmission etc. did he only say that the fleas had the bacteria in their gut or did he also say they could be transmitted, as there are diseases that an animal can have that will not transmit to humans. i guess my question is did he say yes, fleas can transmit the bacteria or only that they found the bacteria in the fleas? On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Tessa McCall <mccall1709@...>wrote: > > > According the Texas Public Health web site and I quote that bacteria can be > transmitted by ticks and fleas and possibly other insects. I called and > spoke to head epitimologist (spelled wrong) and he told me that in 1990's > they tested fleas from 10 counties in Texas and found the bacteria in the > gut of the fleas. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 > > wrote all of this to say that i believe that he got lyme from me thru my > nasal spray because up until that point he was normal and healthy. what are > your thoughts on that? theoretically possible maybe, but highly unlikely IMHO. I don't know much about real medical issues, but I have heard of this problem a few times before (don't know the cause though). It could be Lyme or another infection, but I don't think it is typical for LD. The upper part of the nose is in pretty close contact with the brain, if you have serious damage there, the brain can be infected (not just from Borrelia but from all kinds of bugs). And this would cause some of the problems that we know from neurolyme. Bb can be passed through direct contact with body fluids. Although it is theoretically possible if you both touch the inside of the nose with the nasal spray, it seems very unlikely to me. You are more likely to pass Borrelia through sex (even if you use a condom etc.). Borrelia is quickly killed by normal oxygen levels like in air, so it will not survive on a bottle, a door knob etc. like many other microbes. Even with intimate contact, transmission is probably rare because some of the steps in normal tick infection are missing. Many tick factors are important for helping the Bb get into the blood stream and survive there. This also explains why Bb infection from blood transfusion seems to be rare, despite the fact that much of the blood is infected with Bb. Like with transmission through sex, if transmission rates were significant it would be obvious by now. Organ transplant is another issue, probably far more dangerous. still, it is always good to be cautious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 > > read that the tick needs to be attached 36 hours before it can pass the bacteria? yes, generally speaking this seems to be true for the deer tick carrying Borrelia burgdorferi ss (the most common US version). This info comes from experiments on Bb transmission to mice or cattle; only when the ticks have been feeding for about 36 hours the transmission risk becomes significant. However, for the B. garinii that is more prevalent in Europe, transmission in such experiments starts within about 24 hours. Some research suggests transmission times also depend on the tick stage (e.g. adult or nymph) and possibly other factors like time of the year. The tick/Borrelia system needs to get ready for infection and this takes time. However, if the tick has been feeding for a day or so and is rubbed off from deer or cattle, and happens to hit a human after that (to continue its required blood meal), it might transmit Bb very quickly, e.g. within one hour. Another factor is that sometimes the mouth parts are infected with small numbers of Bb at the moment the tick starts to bite. In this case there is a chance that a few Bb get into the bloodstream and cause infection. Unlikely but possible. So generally speaking the 24-48 hours is correct IMHO, but there is no guarantee. We have a fight in my country with our CDC who claims that there is no risk and no need to consult a doctor if the tick is removed within 24 hours. Of course that is wrong information ... > Who knows, but I do know that our son has never reacted to a tick bite like this before and has NEVER had a reaction at the bite site before. I did get the entire tick out too and quickly. : ) A reaction at the bite site and/or a swollen lymph node is a strong warning but it could be anything, that is why I suggested testing (again) before starting ABX. It is not just Borrelia and a few coinfections that can be transmitted. Ticks can also harbour filarial worms, mycoplasma, nasty viruses and some even have chemical toxins of themselves that can cause severe reactions. In Europe we have a Dermacentor tick species that has a biotoxin that will kill adult dogs within a few hours ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 > > did he only say that the fleas had the bacteria in their gut or did he also > say they could be transmitted, as there are diseases that an animal can have > that will not transmit to humans. i guess my question is did he say yes, > fleas can transmit the bacteria or only that they found the bacteria in the > fleas? yes, this is an important distinction. e.g. if you test mosquitos most of them carry spirochetes in the blood, including borrelia (and many other unknown species). But this does not mean they will pass the spirochetes to other hosts, some of these animals are a 'dead end'. from what I remember, Bb transmission is scientifically accepted (well documented) for ticks, mites and biting flies. Certain lice species can spread other Borrelias (relapse fever) but not the Bb species that causes LD, AFAIK. I'm not sure about fleas, I have heard about it before but it must be rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 At the recent ILADS conference, it was reported that as little as 15 minutes tick attachment could transmit Lyme. Obviously, the spirochetes were already in the mouth area, since it normally does take 24-48 hours for them to come up from the midgut. Also, do you know what kind of biotoxin is that that can get dogs that quickly? Never heard of anything like that here in the states. [ ] Re: Bb transmission etc. > > read that the tick needs to be attached 36 hours before it can pass the bacteria? yes, generally speaking this seems to be true for the deer tick carrying Borrelia burgdorferi ss (the most common US version). This info comes from experiments on Bb transmission to mice or cattle; only when the ticks have been feeding for about 36 hours the transmission risk becomes significant. However, for the B. garinii that is more prevalent in Europe, transmission in such experiments starts within about 24 hours. Some research suggests transmission times also depend on the tick stage (e.g. adult or nymph) and possibly other factors like time of the year. The tick/Borrelia system needs to get ready for infection and this takes time. However, if the tick has been feeding for a day or so and is rubbed off from deer or cattle, and happens to hit a human after that (to continue its required blood meal), it might transmit Bb very quickly, e.g. within one hour. Another factor is that sometimes the mouth parts are infected with small numbers of Bb at the moment the tick starts to bite. In this case there is a chance that a few Bb get into the bloodstream and cause infection. Unlikely but possible. So generally speaking the 24-48 hours is correct IMHO, but there is no guarantee. We have a fight in my country with our CDC who claims that there is no risk and no need to consult a doctor if the tick is removed within 24 hours. Of course that is wrong information ... > Who knows, but I do know that our son has never reacted to a tick bite like this before and has NEVER had a reaction at the bite site before. I did get the entire tick out too and quickly. : ) A reaction at the bite site and/or a swollen lymph node is a strong warning but it could be anything, that is why I suggested testing (again) before starting ABX. It is not just Borrelia and a few coinfections that can be transmitted. Ticks can also harbour filarial worms, mycoplasma, nasty viruses and some even have chemical toxins of themselves that can cause severe reactions. In Europe we have a Dermacentor tick species that has a biotoxin that will kill adult dogs within a few hours ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 thanks for your comments On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 2:08 AM, knot_weed <tek0nik@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > wrote all of this to say that i believe that he got lyme from me thru my > > nasal spray because up until that point he was normal and healthy. what > are > > your thoughts on that? > > theoretically possible maybe, but highly unlikely IMHO. > > I don't know much about real medical issues, but I have heard of this > problem a few times before (don't know the cause though). It could be Lyme > or another infection, but I don't think it is typical for LD. The upper part > of the nose is in pretty close contact with the brain, if you have serious > damage there, the brain can be infected (not just from Borrelia but from all > kinds of bugs). And this would cause some of the problems that we know from > neurolyme. > > Bb can be passed through direct contact with body fluids. Although it is > theoretically possible if you both touch the inside of the nose with the > nasal spray, it seems very unlikely to me. You are more likely to pass > Borrelia through sex (even if you use a condom etc.). > > Borrelia is quickly killed by normal oxygen levels like in air, so it will > not survive on a bottle, a door knob etc. like many other microbes. Even > with intimate contact, transmission is probably rare because some of the > steps in normal tick infection are missing. Many tick factors are important > for helping the Bb get into the blood stream and survive there. > > This also explains why Bb infection from blood transfusion seems to be > rare, despite the fact that much of the blood is infected with Bb. Like with > transmission through sex, if transmission rates were significant it would be > obvious by now. Organ transplant is another issue, probably far more > dangerous. > > still, it is always good to be cautious... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Buhner states in Healing Lyme that Bb from deer urine can survive for long periods of time only to be taken in later by other animals. I dont' know if he has changed his mind about this since writing the book, but that was his belief at the time that book came out. jo > > Borrelia is quickly killed by normal oxygen levels like in air, so it will not survive on a bottle, a door knob etc. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 > > > At the recent ILADS conference, it was reported that as little as 15 minutes tick attachment could transmit Lyme. Obviously, the spirochetes were already in the mouth area, since it normally does take 24-48 hours for them to come up from the midgut. yes, this happens. I think the risk is relatively small, but the important lesson is that there really is no 'safe' attachement period. At the same time, removing the tick quickly and in the right way is very important for reducing risk, because the infection risk gets much larger 1-2 days after it starts feeding. > Also, do you know what kind of biotoxin is that that can get dogs that quickly? Never heard of anything like that here in the states. don't know, but I remember these are really large ticks and they usually also carry Babesia canis (version of Babs specific to dogs). These Dermacentor ticks are supposed to come from the south of France, they were probably imported in our country by introduction of wild cattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 > > Buhner states in Healing Lyme that Bb from deer urine can survive for long periods of time only to be taken in later by other animals. I dont' know if he has changed his mind about this since writing the book, but that was his belief at the time that book came out. jo yes, I remember that but I think he says this because he assumes that as a result of Bb infection, the deer spread the infection by 'spraying' the area (Bb causes more frequent urinating and also with most mammals causes them to wander around a bit more than normal). I don't think there is any scientific proof that Bb can survive in urine outside the body, it is an obligate parasite. Would be good to see it checked though, because I agree with Buhner that Bb may be TRYING to spread this way (independent from ticks), and maybe sooner or later if may find a way. Bb would probably have to use spores, special cyst forms or something else that protects it very well from the environment (e.g. oxygen). I'm convinced the Bb spirochete would not survive this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 > > Their are studies now in progress to see if Lyme is transmittted sexually, much like its cousin Syphillis. This information came from my LLD. Jeff This isn't a yes/no issue. Obviously, Borrelia is spread mostly by tick bite and Treponema (syphilis) by sex. These parasites are geared for their own infection routes and host(s). For Treponema and some relapse fever Borrelias man is the only host, while some other Borrelia species like Bb sl have many potential hosts and vectors. It would be surprising is you can NOT get Borrelia through sex; the question is how likely it is. I think it is pretty unlikely judging from all the data we have. If it was it would be statistically obvious from couples where one of the partners has Lyme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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