ABX

[Guest guest]

By the way Nelly; I am very glad to read that you are having success with the

abx. You have my sincerest hopes and wishes that your improvement continues.

Again I apologize that I made a joke that offended you and some others. I

think a little humor wont hurt here though. If we have to walk on eggshells;

if a little joke gets everyone's bowels in an uproar; thats just ridiculous.

Read the email again; its a harmless joke; I meant in no way to degrade

monkeys. -

> Maybe I worry too much; maybe I'm just wierd; but

> with the risks involved I don't see how anyone with an I.Q greater than a

> monkey's could take this treatment route. --

,

Could you keep your totally unreasoned remarks to yourself, PLEASE!

I am getting a wee bit irritated here at a few highly emotional people who

present themselves as bearers of the Truth, and who are very pushy about

forcing their opinions onto others, 's remark is totally uncalled for,

and I for one DO object to having my I.Q attacked by someone I don't know

and on very flimsy evidence.

We used to be real seekers on this list and trying different approaches

without insulting one another.

I have been ill for a very long time, I was bitten by ticks (on several

occasions), I DID have an EM rash (albeit small, hence the length in dx), I

am quasi certain I have late neuro Lyme and Chronic Rickettsia, AND

antibiotics have already saved my life several times. Yet I wouldn't DREAM

of insulting anybody who would prefer to choose another mode of tx.

It is a VERY COMPLEX subject, and I just wish people would just refrain from

saying anything that comes into their minds on this forum, without any real

understanding of the question. I spend a very large part of every day

reading up on the subject, and I know that very little is straight forwrd

about Lyme.

For anyone who might be interested: both my husband and myself have improved

DRAMATICALLY after 2 weeks of Tinidazole (a cousin of metronidazole), and I

am staying on for the time being. I have some very good reasons to do so,

monkey's brain reasons, of course!

I would hate to have to leave this list, but I am seriously thinking of

leaving if all this continues.

Nelly

[Guest guest]

In Europe do the same ticks transmit lyme as those in the US -- are Euro ticks

the same species sub groups as US ticks?

Steve

[Guest guest]

Janet, I think it means treatment with antibiotics? If Sherm's doctor knew

that the trigger was definitely from the pneumonia he mentioned...and the

antibiotic was started early enough, it seems that it would have helped the

infection. Some say that the cycle goes on even if all the bacteria has been

eliminated from the body. In other words, our immune system has set up a

chain reaction which the bacteria triggered, the bacteria may very well be

gone, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the immune system knows that it

is gone...and it still goes on operating in high gear....attacking our own

bodies (joints, ligaments, muscles, skin, eyes, intestines, etc.

At least, this is how I read it. Anybody else have a theory?

Best regards, Connie (granny) from Indian Rocks Beach, Fl and Asheville, NC

PS...so we won't get confused with the two Connie's from NC...I'll sign my

name with just (Granny) Or you all can take a vote...and give me a new name

like " Perfect Abs " or " Got Milk " or " No Wrinkles " HaHa Some of you can

appreciate those names! One of the waiters on the cruise ship called me " Big

MaMa " and the other " MamaMia " Didn't know quite how to take that, but they

seemed to do it affectionately and I gladly went along with them. I think

we've already started calling Father Dave..... " Old as Dirt. " To me, he still

looks like a young man. Now, don't get carried away with a name....like " Old

F*** or something like that! We have to keep this group honorable. Ray, nice

to have you back with the group again...See, I told you you couldn't stay

away from us...you need us and we need you. Finally got to see you and your

fine family after these many years. I hear doctors in Va are on strike. Any

that you know on strike? Many Doctors here in Florida are retiring early and

giving up medicine for good. They say they aren't allowed to practice

medicine the way they were taught in school and they can't afford the

malpractice insurance. Their fees have been cut the lowest in 20 years, but

the rental/equipment/overhead/insurance has gone up and up. The Gov't and HMO

and other insurance companies limit what the doctor orders. Gov't and HMOs

are the ones now that are practicing medicine....and without a license! So it

looks like doctor's are so fed up after so many years of this...that they are

just going to give them the ball. I suppose we will be the ones who get hit

with the ball. Huh? Maybe we can go to Canada or Cuba for our medical care? I

hear they take good care of their peoples health concerns at a reasonable

price. Well, sorry to be rambling...probably should have deleted out most of

this letter. Best wishes, Granny

[Guest guest]

Sherm,

I believe your right that high titers aren't normal too. Lower tighters

present does show that your body had prior exposure to the bacteria. That is

why most MD's won't give the H-Pylori test for stomach problems, if the

person had been positive on a prior occasion. However, if you look at the

Sanford Guide of Antimicrobial therapy there are definite antibiotics that

work better than other depending on how the bacteria is classified, like in

your case for mycoplasma. Classifications such as gram negative or gram

positive, anerobe etc... I have read Dr. Mirkins thoughts on antibiotics and

arthritis and a few other things of his on the web. Although antibiotics may

help some people and I tried the 3 month course of Minocin, if it was a virus

or something other than a bacteria susceptible to the tetracycline class, it

might be of no use. Recently a 3 month study of Zithromax, a macrolide,

showed no benefit and this was published in a reputable journal with an

adequate sample size in the study. The thought of why the tetracyclines might

work is that they are like mini dmards or may interfere with some inflamation

in the tissues kind of like really mild TNF blockers, but again most of this

is just theory that I have read about at various medical web sites.

Like alot of people in this group have stated, for many of us the problem is

a hyper immune system that cause an autoimmune type effect. By continued

scientific pursuit of being able to turn off certain things within the cells

but leaving others, I truly believe that in the not to distant future they

will be able to turn off or block things responsible for the over reaction.

The TNF's surely seem like a step in that direction as does research being

done for other autoimmune diseases.

Here's to hoping of great medical advances in 2003,

Dave in NC

[Guest guest]

Yes abx means antibiotics. My Dr works on the theory that Reiter's

and Chronic Prostatitis are due to infection. Whether he thinks the

infection is active or not I don't know.

I do know that I have had high titers for Mycoplasma Pneumonia for 12

years, that's as far back as I was tested for it. I know I had M

pneumonia pneumonia in 1990. I suspect the MP was the cause of my

chronic bronchitis going back to pre-school yrs.

I see Dr Gabe Mirkin in Kensington Md. He checked the MP when I

started with him and they were high. He explained that the test

couldn't distinguish between current or past infection. He

recommended treating with abx to see what happens.

The abx treatment improved me dramatically. But after several yrs of

abx the side effects got to be too bad. I discontinued the abx in mid

7/02. By the end of 8/02 I was in the ER with a severe Eye

inflammation. I was treated by local Dr's with prednisone and my

local Rheumy now has me on Indocin. I need to get back to Dr Mirkin

but I've been too sick to drive that far. Hopefully I can get to

Mirkin in the near future.

I have been on many meds, but for me nothing worked as well as abx.

Tequin was the best of the abx.

I haven't got a clue if Reiter's is triggered by the infection, or if

it's really an active infection that the abx controls but doesn't

kill. If someone could answer this question the result could be a

four letter word; CURE.

Sherm

[Guest guest]

What Connie said is what my Docs have been saying all along. The residual

that is left behind, scaring, etc., is now what the body thinks is still the

bacteria, so it just keeps on fighting the fight. The meds to suppress them

from fighting the fight leaves us open to pick up other infections. Well,

what a hamster wheel we are on. It's life, and we are all in it together,

smile:) EFD

[Guest guest]

It is good to hear that you have been fine while on abx.

Thanks for the info

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree with knotweed that long-term abx use is likely doing harm to the

global population by creating more antibiotic resistant bugs (not just the

spirochetes but all organisms due to their ability to pass genetic material

through conjugation, etc.). The only reason I support the abx effort is because

I believe patients should have choices.

actually I think in many countries the medical use of ABX is not the main

problem, the agricultural use is. In Netherlands the use of ABX for dairy

farming is 5-10 times higher than for humans, and most of these ABX flow

untreated into the environment (while for humans at least a part is cleared by

wastewater treatment). So agri use is even more damaging than the 5-10x factor

suggests. I guess the US situation is not much better.

> I believe alternative therapies that can reduce the burden on the immune

system by attacking other pathogens such as candida, viruses,

protozoa/parasites, etc. which can help the body handle the heavy load.

Yes; in that sense I agree that even Salt/C, MSM etc. might have some value. But

they won't fight Borrelia itself. I agree supplements, detox, restoring the

damage can be very important (and this is lacking in allopathic medicine).