Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 > > I went to see about 5 of top MD's & was always upset by the low % in waiting rooms that were making progress back in 2003 area.Not judging them, but just mentioning. I think ILADS docs are doing their best, but ABX are not THE cure. I'm not so happy with the strong pro-ABX stance of ILADS; their treatment is unproven just like the official IDSA treatments are unproven. And in addition longterm ABX use is controversial, not because of the risk (IMHO that is relatively low compared to potential benefit) but mostly because of political issues like the 'competition' with use in dairy farming. I'm guessing that ABX work only against a certain subgroup of Borrelia species, or maybe only in certain individuals. For many it is more like treating symptoms: the number of spirochetes will decline strongly on ABX, but when you stop they are back in some weeks or months at most. > That's why so many folks try CS, Coiling etc. I understand that many patients try other treatments because they cannot get treatment (because of negative tests, lack of insurance) or have insufficient result with ABX. But IMHO some of these alternative treatments don't make any sense against a spirochete, even if they may have some value for the patient (e.g. as with Salt/C or MSM in removing certain gut parasites). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Knotweed, My only point was that many contributors speak of NE LLMD's with a semi god-like reverence & I was just stating my own knowledge. They are all trying along with making a living, but their recommendations especially ABX only go so far......One of MD's did get a grant to do a big study on rife...I do believe if a company like JNJ studied rife for real, we'd all be in much better shape....... Jazzman [ ] Re: Donta etc...... > > I went to see about 5 of top MD's & was always upset by the low % in waiting rooms that were making progress back in 2003 area.Not judging them, but just mentioning. I think ILADS docs are doing their best, but ABX are not THE cure. I'm not so happy with the strong pro-ABX stance of ILADS; their treatment is unproven just like the official IDSA treatments are unproven. And in addition longterm ABX use is controversial, not because of the risk (IMHO that is relatively low compared to potential benefit) but mostly because of political issues like the 'competition' with use in dairy farming. I'm guessing that ABX work only against a certain subgroup of Borrelia species, or maybe only in certain individuals. For many it is more like treating symptoms: the number of spirochetes will decline strongly on ABX, but when you stop they are back in some weeks or months at most. > That's why so many folks try CS, Coiling etc. I understand that many patients try other treatments because they cannot get treatment (because of negative tests, lack of insurance) or have insufficient result with ABX. But IMHO some of these alternative treatments don't make any sense against a spirochete, even if they may have some value for the patient (e.g. as with Salt/C or MSM in removing certain gut parasites). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 My friend in Mass saw Dr. Donta and did his abx protocol but relapsed every time she stopped. She tried homeopathics with no luck. So now she is on Cowden protocol (3 months into it) and says she feels much better. deb > > > > > > Hi - my name is , and I live in Southern NJ. > > > > > > I am a huge fan of Buhner and have owned many > > > of his books (in addition to the Healing Lyme book) for > > > a few years now. > > > > > > I just started the specific protocol for Bartonella outlined in the book, after having gone thru a full year of convention medical treatment, which consisted of 12 months of antibiotics (8 mo's of which > > > was via IV). > > > > > > This treatment was stopped only when tests turned negative - and then a period of no treatment ensued for roughly 6 months (although symptoms had hardly improved). > > > > > > However - just about 3 weeks ago I tested positive again via an Igenix Bartonella-FISH test (which is only a newly available test, but is stated to be a direct detection of the rod shaped organisms via a blood smear, but is non specific in term of which of 4 types of Bartonella species I could have). > > > > > > Needless to say - after 10 montsh of antibiotic treatment - the new positive test was rather devastating news to receive, but at the same time now does give me something to re-focus treatment on to deal with all of these symptoms. > > > > > > Additionally - I have blood currently being cultured at the Intracellular Pathogens Research Lab - NC State University; College > > > of Veterinary Medicine, which should yield results in early December. > > > > > > Since beginning the Buhner protocol roughly 3 weeks ago I am really happy to report that certain nagging symptoms have improved - specifically chronic IBS wich has plagued me for the past 5 years. > > > I am working my way up dosage and am roughly at 1/2 dose - with the whole-herb Knotweed, Red Root, and Boneset. - I have never used these herbs before this. > > > > > > It is not entirely clear that I obtained the infection from > > > a tick - but I suspect so. > > > > > > However - if the above is not enough on it's own - about 10 days ago I found a fully engorged male Lonestar Tick embedded near my ankle. This tick is currently being analyzed - and we are awaiting results (upon finding this I immediately proceeded with the " early bite " protocol from the Buhner text) and as a preventative am now also taking 150mg of Doryx 2x/day. > > > > > > My interest in joining the forum here has to do with that I would be especially appreciate input if anyone has dealt with chronic or relapsing Bartonella with any success ??? - and also if there are additional herbs that have been helpful beyond the core protocol in the book. > > > > > > I suspect I will probably be maintaining the protocol, and also resuming with a new anti-biotic (which my LLMD is researching for me) for the Bartonella, the current Doryx is simply for preventative reasons for this recent Lonestar tick bite, considering that I am already immuno-suppressed, and can't afford to be taking any risks. > > > I am freankly terrified at the prospects of Bartonella infecting my heart vavles if I were to become even more ill with any new TBI's. > > > > > > Thanks much for reading all of this - and I hope I can add some positive things, become an asset to what appears to be a really wonderful forum here. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I agree with knotweed that long-term abx use is likely doing harm to the global population by creating more antibiotic resistant bugs (not just the spirochetes but all organisms due to their ability to pass genetic material through conjugation, etc.). The only reason I support the abx effort is because I believe patients should have choices. I believe alternative therapies that can reduce the burden on the immune system by attacking other pathogens such as candida, viruses, protozoa/parasites, etc. which can help the body handle the heavy load. In doing so, there is certainly relief from many symptoms. Also, nutritional supplements and detox provide further improvement by bringing the body more into balance. deb > > > > > I went to see about 5 of top MD's & was always upset by the low % in waiting rooms that were making progress back in 2003 area.Not judging them, but just mentioning. > > I think ILADS docs are doing their best, but ABX are not THE cure. I'm not so happy with the strong pro-ABX stance of ILADS; their treatment is unproven just like the official IDSA treatments are unproven. And in addition longterm ABX use is controversial, not because of the risk (IMHO that is relatively low compared to potential benefit) but mostly because of political issues like the 'competition' with use in dairy farming. > > I'm guessing that ABX work only against a certain subgroup of Borrelia species, or maybe only in certain individuals. For many it is more like treating symptoms: the number of spirochetes will decline strongly on ABX, but when you stop they are back in some weeks or months at most. > > > That's why so many folks try CS, Coiling etc. > > I understand that many patients try other treatments because they cannot get treatment (because of negative tests, lack of insurance) or have insufficient result with ABX. But IMHO some of these alternative treatments don't make any sense against a spirochete, even if they may have some value for the patient (e.g. as with Salt/C or MSM in removing certain gut parasites). > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Deb, My point! Quite a few of " coilers " were on Donta......... Full Cowden? Jazzman [ ] Re: Donta etc...... My friend in Mass saw Dr. Donta and did his abx protocol but relapsed every time she stopped. She tried homeopathics with no luck. So now she is on Cowden protocol (3 months into it) and says she feels much better. deb > > > > > > Hi - my name is , and I live in Southern NJ. > > > > > > I am a huge fan of Buhner and have owned many > > > of his books (in addition to the Healing Lyme book) for > > > a few years now. > > > > > > I just started the specific protocol for Bartonella outlined in the book, after having gone thru a full year of convention medical treatment, which consisted of 12 months of antibiotics (8 mo's of which > > > was via IV). > > > > > > This treatment was stopped only when tests turned negative - and then a period of no treatment ensued for roughly 6 months (although symptoms had hardly improved). > > > > > > However - just about 3 weeks ago I tested positive again via an Igenix Bartonella-FISH test (which is only a newly available test, but is stated to be a direct detection of the rod shaped organisms via a blood smear, but is non specific in term of which of 4 types of Bartonella species I could have). > > > > > > Needless to say - after 10 montsh of antibiotic treatment - the new positive test was rather devastating news to receive, but at the same time now does give me something to re-focus treatment on to deal with all of these symptoms. > > > > > > Additionally - I have blood currently being cultured at the Intracellular Pathogens Research Lab - NC State University; College > > > of Veterinary Medicine, which should yield results in early December. > > > > > > Since beginning the Buhner protocol roughly 3 weeks ago I am really happy to report that certain nagging symptoms have improved - specifically chronic IBS wich has plagued me for the past 5 years. > > > I am working my way up dosage and am roughly at 1/2 dose - with the whole-herb Knotweed, Red Root, and Boneset. - I have never used these herbs before this. > > > > > > It is not entirely clear that I obtained the infection from > > > a tick - but I suspect so. > > > > > > However - if the above is not enough on it's own - about 10 days ago I found a fully engorged male Lonestar Tick embedded near my ankle. This tick is currently being analyzed - and we are awaiting results (upon finding this I immediately proceeded with the " early bite " protocol from the Buhner text) and as a preventative am now also taking 150mg of Doryx 2x/day. > > > > > > My interest in joining the forum here has to do with that I would be especially appreciate input if anyone has dealt with chronic or relapsing Bartonella with any success ??? - and also if there are additional herbs that have been helpful beyond the core protocol in the book. > > > > > > I suspect I will probably be maintaining the protocol, and also resuming with a new anti-biotic (which my LLMD is researching for me) for the Bartonella, the current Doryx is simply for preventative reasons for this recent Lonestar tick bite, considering that I am already immuno-suppressed, and can't afford to be taking any risks. > > > I am freankly terrified at the prospects of Bartonella infecting my heart vavles if I were to become even more ill with any new TBI's. > > > > > > Thanks much for reading all of this - and I hope I can add some positive things, become an asset to what appears to be a really wonderful forum here. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I just finished reading the book " Accidental Cure " by Dr. Simon Yu which was just published this year. Some very good insights; he believes in the concept of a compromised terrain allowing pathogens to flourish. He states that five factors contribute to this: heavy metal toxicity dental problems (amalgams, root canals, cavitations) parasites (worms in particular) food allergies poor diet/nutrition I'm not sure that I agree with the terrain theory (kind of the same argument as whether the chicken or the egg came first) but the above five areas certainly merit investigation. Dr. Yu also comments on rife (referencing Royal Rife's original design) as being a credible therapy although he doesn't believe that most " rife " machines out there today are effective. I can't agree with such a blanket statement as there are so many machines and I'm sure he has not researched most of them. I personally have seen significant improvement of symptoms using a couple different models. I know many people who claim significant benefit from the Doug coil which I have never tried. deb > > > > > I went to see about 5 of top MD's & was always upset by the low % in waiting rooms that were making progress back in 2003 area.Not judging them, but just mentioning. > > I think ILADS docs are doing their best, but ABX are not THE cure. I'm not so happy with the strong pro-ABX stance of ILADS; their treatment is unproven just like the official IDSA treatments are unproven. And in addition longterm ABX use is controversial, not because of the risk (IMHO that is relatively low compared to potential benefit) but mostly because of political issues like the 'competition' with use in dairy farming. > > I'm guessing that ABX work only against a certain subgroup of Borrelia species, or maybe only in certain individuals. For many it is more like treating symptoms: the number of spirochetes will decline strongly on ABX, but when you stop they are back in some weeks or months at most. > > > That's why so many folks try CS, Coiling etc. > > I understand that many patients try other treatments because they cannot get treatment (because of negative tests, lack of insurance) or have insufficient result with ABX. But IMHO some of these alternative treatments don't make any sense against a spirochete, even if they may have some value for the patient (e.g. as with Salt/C or MSM in removing certain gut parasites). > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 > One of MD's did get a grant to do a big study on rife...I do believe if a company like JNJ studied rife for real, we'd all be in much better shape....... I don't think that requires a lot of money at all. Some of the most interesting research regarding Lyme was done by 'amateurs' without any budget. I have seen the videos supposedly prove that rifing kills spirochetes under the microscope, total garbage. It should be quite easy to demonstrate this effect if it really occurs, and even checking the result in humans shouldn't be that difficult. The problem with rifing is that it is undefined technology, there are an unlimited amount of settings/options etc. that will cause supporters to dismiss any demonstration where it does NOT work, because they used the wrong device, frequency, duration, waveform etc. You can't scientifically test a treatment that is undefined. Extensively following confirmed LD patients who are treated with rifing (and no other treatment) would require a significant amount of money, and an unlimited amount if you wish to test just a few of the variations that people think should be used. But such studies are useless IMHO (just like most of the current ABX studies are useless). I don't think they will prove or disprove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 > > I just finished reading the book " Accidental Cure " by Dr. Simon Yu which was just published this year. Some very good insights; he believes in the concept of a compromised terrain allowing pathogens to flourish. He states that five factors contribute to this: > > heavy metal toxicity > dental problems (amalgams, root canals, cavitations) > parasites (worms in particular) > food allergies > poor diet/nutrition > > I'm not sure that I agree with the terrain theory (kind of the same argument as whether the chicken or the egg came first) but the above five areas certainly merit investigation. I think this agrees with the TCM view on illness. I think he is right in the sense that LD requires both a compromised terrain AND the trigger (Borrelia). I would add organic chemicals (like pesticides, dioxins, phtalates etc. etc. - at least as important as heavy metals) and radiation (from cellphone towers, Wifi, electricity grid maybe, nuclear power maybe) as a potentially important factors. As an example check last weeks study from Wageningen university: http://inhabitat.com/is-wi-fi-making-trees-sick/ There are also interesting studies that suggest cell phone radiation destroys the blood-brain-barrier etc. and damages the immune system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 condensed Cowden. > > > > > > > > Hi - my name is , and I live in Southern NJ. > > > > > > > > I am a huge fan of Buhner and have owned many > > > > of his books (in addition to the Healing Lyme book) for > > > > a few years now. > > > > > > > > I just started the specific protocol for Bartonella outlined in the book, after having gone thru a full year of convention medical treatment, which consisted of 12 months of antibiotics (8 mo's of which > > > > was via IV). > > > > > > > > This treatment was stopped only when tests turned negative - and then a period of no treatment ensued for roughly 6 months (although symptoms had hardly improved). > > > > > > > > However - just about 3 weeks ago I tested positive again via an Igenix Bartonella-FISH test (which is only a newly available test, but is stated to be a direct detection of the rod shaped organisms via a blood smear, but is non specific in term of which of 4 types of Bartonella species I could have). > > > > > > > > Needless to say - after 10 montsh of antibiotic treatment - the new positive test was rather devastating news to receive, but at the same time now does give me something to re-focus treatment on to deal with all of these symptoms. > > > > > > > > Additionally - I have blood currently being cultured at the Intracellular Pathogens Research Lab - NC State University; College > > > > of Veterinary Medicine, which should yield results in early December. > > > > > > > > Since beginning the Buhner protocol roughly 3 weeks ago I am really happy to report that certain nagging symptoms have improved - specifically chronic IBS wich has plagued me for the past 5 years. > > > > I am working my way up dosage and am roughly at 1/2 dose - with the whole-herb Knotweed, Red Root, and Boneset. - I have never used these herbs before this. > > > > > > > > It is not entirely clear that I obtained the infection from > > > > a tick - but I suspect so. > > > > > > > > However - if the above is not enough on it's own - about 10 days ago I found a fully engorged male Lonestar Tick embedded near my ankle. This tick is currently being analyzed - and we are awaiting results (upon finding this I immediately proceeded with the " early bite " protocol from the Buhner text) and as a preventative am now also taking 150mg of Doryx 2x/day. > > > > > > > > My interest in joining the forum here has to do with that I would be especially appreciate input if anyone has dealt with chronic or relapsing Bartonella with any success ??? - and also if there are additional herbs that have been helpful beyond the core protocol in the book. > > > > > > > > I suspect I will probably be maintaining the protocol, and also resuming with a new anti-biotic (which my LLMD is researching for me) for the Bartonella, the current Doryx is simply for preventative reasons for this recent Lonestar tick bite, considering that I am already immuno-suppressed, and can't afford to be taking any risks. > > > > I am freankly terrified at the prospects of Bartonella infecting my heart vavles if I were to become even more ill with any new TBI's. > > > > > > > > Thanks much for reading all of this - and I hope I can add some positive things, become an asset to what appears to be a really wonderful forum here. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 thx [ ] Re: Donta etc...... condensed Cowden. > > > > > > > > Hi - my name is , and I live in Southern NJ. > > > > > > > > I am a huge fan of Buhner and have owned many > > > > of his books (in addition to the Healing Lyme book) for > > > > a few years now. > > > > > > > > I just started the specific protocol for Bartonella outlined in the book, after having gone thru a full year of convention medical treatment, which consisted of 12 months of antibiotics (8 mo's of which > > > > was via IV). > > > > > > > > This treatment was stopped only when tests turned negative - and then a period of no treatment ensued for roughly 6 months (although symptoms had hardly improved). > > > > > > > > However - just about 3 weeks ago I tested positive again via an Igenix Bartonella-FISH test (which is only a newly available test, but is stated to be a direct detection of the rod shaped organisms via a blood smear, but is non specific in term of which of 4 types of Bartonella species I could have). > > > > > > > > Needless to say - after 10 montsh of antibiotic treatment - the new positive test was rather devastating news to receive, but at the same time now does give me something to re-focus treatment on to deal with all of these symptoms. > > > > > > > > Additionally - I have blood currently being cultured at the Intracellular Pathogens Research Lab - NC State University; College > > > > of Veterinary Medicine, which should yield results in early December. > > > > > > > > Since beginning the Buhner protocol roughly 3 weeks ago I am really happy to report that certain nagging symptoms have improved - specifically chronic IBS wich has plagued me for the past 5 years. > > > > I am working my way up dosage and am roughly at 1/2 dose - with the whole-herb Knotweed, Red Root, and Boneset. - I have never used these herbs before this. > > > > > > > > It is not entirely clear that I obtained the infection from > > > > a tick - but I suspect so. > > > > > > > > However - if the above is not enough on it's own - about 10 days ago I found a fully engorged male Lonestar Tick embedded near my ankle. This tick is currently being analyzed - and we are awaiting results (upon finding this I immediately proceeded with the " early bite " protocol from the Buhner text) and as a preventative am now also taking 150mg of Doryx 2x/day. > > > > > > > > My interest in joining the forum here has to do with that I would be especially appreciate input if anyone has dealt with chronic or relapsing Bartonella with any success ??? - and also if there are additional herbs that have been helpful beyond the core protocol in the book. > > > > > > > > I suspect I will probably be maintaining the protocol, and also resuming with a new anti-biotic (which my LLMD is researching for me) for the Bartonella, the current Doryx is simply for preventative reasons for this recent Lonestar tick bite, considering that I am already immuno-suppressed, and can't afford to be taking any risks. > > > > I am freankly terrified at the prospects of Bartonella infecting my heart vavles if I were to become even more ill with any new TBI's. > > > > > > > > Thanks much for reading all of this - and I hope I can add some positive things, become an asset to what appears to be a really wonderful forum here. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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