Re:Salt/C protocol along with Buhner herbs

[Guest guest]

Dave,

I have tried the salt and C protocol in my most desperately ill times, but I

also believe it is bad for you. It was a radical 1960s protocol to cure

severe illness, it is very rough on your body, reminds me kind of chemo

therapy.

The salt kills a lot. I did end up with an electrolyte imbalance. I still

take a lot of the vitamin C, antioxidants are less harmfull then salt in my

opinion. I am also (like some) on a partial Buhner protocol, combined with

traditional western doctors care. So far so good, I am slowly improving a

little.

Dagmar

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[Guest guest]

I have over 17 yrs tried separate and combined meds, have added homeopathy (

years ago before they had nosodes or any thing near for Lyme) and TCM then did

just those separately. I have done single and combos...but not yet started

Buhner--awaiting my mail. all with varying results. I was in remission twice for

a few yrs. Last 7-8 Ive been on the wrong edge of a cliff struggling to not slip

anymore farther downhill.

BUT I am a bit unusual--I have other conditions (see below), I was infected

during pregnancy when the immune system is altered, I was misdx for months as

post partum depression...I was hit faster than expected neuro and cardiac wise (

genetic wekaness perhaps?? bad luck??)...so frankly Im not surprised my journey

with this has been less than stellar.

IMHO its so variable and individual that you cant really say whats better.  Ive

seen many BAD cases get over it quite easliy with " just " 1-2 antibiotics and

then Ive seen my own 17 yr old try every darn concoction in single and multiple

protocols and fail them all...so far. And Ive seen cases of quick diagnosis,

relatively omild symptoms--maybe a few joint aches and a bit of fatigue ( boy

what Id give to just have those)..but be unable to really get well anyway no

matter what they tried.Go figure

I see Jims point of trying to be faithful to a protocol to see if it works and

to not " muck up " what Buhner has devised but for many of us its not so

simple...and taking a multi pronged approach is what works best. Even Buhner in

his book mentions that many should stay on abx while doing his protocol, some

purists would wrinkle their noses at this.

as for Salt/C...I can say that I have never and would NEVER try it for the

following reasons:

I am a severe dysautonomia patient and as such my specialists have all

contraindicated it for me. PLUS the recent research has proven that mucking with

osmotic balance and intra/intercellular volumes is dangerous. Indeed even the

old chestnut of recommending most dysauto people to increase salt and fluid

intakes is now being changed to simply increasing fluids especially water., Some

studies are finding that higher salt concentrations in the gut will work AGAINST

any fluid increases and actually cause a DECREASE in the blood volume we need to

stop fainting. The fact that some now on salt/C and having dysautonomia arent

being made worse is a function of the old " helps some hurts some " thing.

The human body is amazing and will try to counteract almost anything to return

to homeostasis and I dont think having an already ravaged by infection body work

so hard to fix whats disrupted by such a high salt and C concentration is

good...again my opinion after years of teaching pre-med and nursing physiology.

I may eventually be proved wrong...but its all I have for now. Plus how many are

actually doing full protocol and for how long?? I havent seen any data of

confrimation.

I have adrenergic surges of severe hypertension which is made worse by small

increases in salt so its very risky for me to increase it to the levels of the

protocol--as it is for ANYONE with salt sensitive hypertension. I cant take meds

so I am " uncontrolled " ...when not in episode my BP is ok ( 120-130/75-85) so to

take meds all the time will drop it too low!!

my kidneys and blood vessels are at risk as well. I have EDS/JHS a connective

tissue disorder ( genetic) that predisposed me to the worse dysauto, hence back

to the above.and this also means my organs are more fragile and I wouldnt risk

it. Plus Lyme affects the Conn Tissues adding to the issues.

EVERY darn study done thats mentioned by supporters of Salt/C refers to huge

amts of Vit C INTRAVENOUSLY. But I dont recall supporters saying this. Indeed

many have been almost CURED by 3-5 days of IV vit c at 8-10 grams per admin/

once - twice per day. you can NEVER get blood levels that high no matter how

hard you try by INGESTING it. period...the body wont/cant allow it..btw I will

try to find someone to give ME IV vit C this summer!! unsure how much dosage

theyll allow tho'...Im " medically fragile " and practitioners tend to be

very cautious with me.

The studies about the salt?? well there are as many showing NO effect...and

until and unless we see studies showing BOTH negative and positive about this

protocol I will remain skeptical and suggest that others do as well. Im NOT

saying it wont work or is too dangerous to try...Im saying that there is a

curtain covering too much of the info to make me feel comfortable and the old "

if there is nothing to hide...then why hide anything " keeps reverberating in my

head. Im a data based traditonalist/scientist. Im willing to experiment but get

a bit testy when data are skewed or even hidden.

PLUS again not to ruffle feathers but I havent seen or heard of many CURES and

to have to stay on something long term so against human biochemistry leaves me

uneasy...if it were that easy and that much of a miracle cure wouldnt we ALL be

seeing Drs who have Lyme doing it?? If I have to be on something long term Id

rather it be gentler like herbs....and something in line with our normal

physiology.

be well

Finette

[“Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is

right.†- Ezre Taft Benson]

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[Guest guest]

Hey Finette,

you must be feeling better, you're writing very clearly (great info, you

must have been a good teacher!) like your old self. Hang in there!

FinRussak@... wrote:

>

>

> I have over 17 yrs tried separate and combined meds, have added

> homeopathy ( years ago before they had nosodes or any thing near for

> Lyme) and TCM then did just those separately. I have done single and

> combos...but not yet started Buhner--awaiting my mail. all with

> varying results. I was in remission twice for a few yrs. Last 7-8 Ive

> been on the wrong edge of a cliff struggling to not slip anymore

> farther dow

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody, I'm also on a TOTAL mix of protocols, but not abx

included.

I do think Buhner's herbs work well for borrelia and

immunomodulation, but not too well for many of the coinfections (I

mean, not enough to kill them all, like bartonella, babesia for

example).

Many of his herbs cannot be taken by small children (ehrlichia

protocol for example), so I can't ONLY take his advice there (as I

have a small child). But as I said, for borrelia, it's wonderful,

even though it's still missing cyst busters.

And his cleansing herbs don't include metal cleansers. It's getting

to be 'common sense' that most cronic lyme sufferers suffer from

heavy metal intoxication and that's one of the reasons they don't get

well. Even Burrascano is talking about that openly. See

betterhealthguy.com.

So I'm with Buhner for his wonderful herbs for borrelia mainly (a few

for coinfections), with Dr. K for his main cleansing herbs (metal

detox protocol) and with myself for other killers and cyst busters

(own readings and trial/ error, mostly Chinese herbs or bee

products).

Parallel, I treat intensely with homeopathics all the way, I feel

they do help in another 'dimension', different from herbs, and with

the KMT machine (microcurrent).

Buhner doesn't address problems with thyroid either, almost every

lyme sufferer will have problems there sooner or later.

so I do recommend a sort of addition of protocols to fill in gaps

from B protocol, as lyme is a crazily complex disease!

Selma

[Guest guest]

Thank you Selma

great post. (Makayla'smom)

On 7/18/07, selmanaka <hardynaka@...> wrote:

>

> Hi everybody, I'm also on a TOTAL mix of protocols, but not abx

> included.

>

> I do think Buhner's herbs work well for borrelia and

> immunomodulation, but not too well for many of the coinfections (I

> mean, not enough to kill them all, like bartonella, babesia for

> example).

>

> Many of his herbs cannot be taken by small children (ehrlichia

> protocol for example), so I can't ONLY take his advice there (as I

> have a small child). But as I said, for borrelia, it's wonderful,

> even though it's still missing cyst busters.

>

> And his cleansing herbs don't include metal cleansers. It's getting

> to be 'common sense' that most cronic lyme sufferers suffer from

> heavy metal intoxication and that's one of the reasons they don't get

> well. Even Burrascano is talking about that openly. See

> betterhealthguy.com.

>

> So I'm with Buhner for his wonderful herbs for borrelia mainly (a few

> for coinfections), with Dr. K for his main cleansing herbs (metal

> detox protocol) and with myself for other killers and cyst busters

> (own readings and trial/ error, mostly Chinese herbs or bee

> products).

>

> Parallel, I treat intensely with homeopathics all the way, I feel

> they do help in another 'dimension', different from herbs, and with

> the KMT machine (microcurrent).

>

> Buhner doesn't address problems with thyroid either, almost every

> lyme sufferer will have problems there sooner or later.

>

> so I do recommend a sort of addition of protocols to fill in gaps

> from B protocol, as lyme is a crazily complex disease!

>

> Selma

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dagmar, the salt/c was the worst thing I ever tried in my life, and

injured my kidneys/body. Just curious--you say it was a radical 1960's

cure. I've wondered where it came from. I'd like to know more. Thanks.

Also I agree w/ Finette...don't hide anything. There are various

protocols with varying degrees of risk and success, but having an open

discussion of both is so important, and salt/c is not open.

Anyway I'd be interested in knowing more of the history behind it.

Thanks...and if anyone has tried crytoplepis yet, I'd be curious to

hear about that too.

>

> Dave,

>

> I have tried the salt and C protocol in my most desperately ill

times, but I

> also believe it is bad for you. It was a radical 1960s protocol to

cure

> severe illness, it is very rough on your body, reminds me kind of

chemo therapy.

> The salt kills a lot. I did end up with an electrolyte imbalance.

I still

> take a lot of the vitamin C, antioxidants are less harmfull then

salt in my

> opinion. I am also (like some) on a partial Buhner protocol,

combined with

> traditional western doctors care. So far so good, I am slowly

improving a

> little.

>

> Dagmar

[Guest guest]

--I am very blessed to have a wonderful Dr that thinks highly of Dr

K. He muscle tests me and I use the pendulum for amounts and

what my body needs. We check everything. I am doing Buhner

herbs and others , I am chelating mercury at this time and have

done this on and off for a while. No S & C at this time not to say I

will not go back on it. We are all different and have many things

to work on not just lyme and co.

Adrenals,thyroid,neurotransmitters,parasites,candida,mcs,emf's

on and on. What an adventure this is. Dr K,my Dr and many

others including myself are into mind body spirit emotions

approach. I also do homeopathics,acupuncture, Bach flower

remedys and many different types of energy work . Detox supps

are a must. Coffee-enemas,colonics, I want to do lymph

drainage and massage. I do alot of these techniques on my

own.Do to $ restrictions. I have done quite a few rounds of bee

venom shots.Probably leaving things out as I have done so

many. My Dr works with me and not at me like alot of God Dr's

do. He says he learns so much from his patients and admits

not knowing it all. He is concious,present and caring and willing

to learn. So I use a mix. Healing blessings to all. Joyce - In

, " selmanaka "

<hardynaka@...> wrote:

>

> Hi everybody, I'm also on a TOTAL mix of protocols, but not abx

> included.

>

> I do think Buhner's herbs work well for borrelia and

> immunomodulation, but not too well for many of the

coinfections (I

> mean, not enough to kill them all, like bartonella, babesia for

> example).

>

> Many of his herbs cannot be taken by small children (ehrlichia

> protocol for example), so I can't ONLY take his advice there (as

I

> have a small child). But as I said, for borrelia, it's wonderful,

> even though it's still missing cyst busters.

>

> And his cleansing herbs don't include metal cleansers. It's

getting

> to be 'common sense' that most cronic lyme sufferers suffer

from

> heavy metal intoxication and that's one of the reasons they

don't get

> well. Even Burrascano is talking about that openly. See

> betterhealthguy.com.

>

> So I'm with Buhner for his wonderful herbs for borrelia mainly

(a few

> for coinfections), with Dr. K for his main cleansing herbs (metal

> detox protocol) and with myself for other killers and cyst

busters

> (own readings and trial/ error, mostly Chinese herbs or bee

> products).

>

> Parallel, I treat intensely with homeopathics all the way, I feel

> they do help in another 'dimension', different from herbs, and

with

> the KMT machine (microcurrent).

>

> Buhner doesn't address problems with thyroid either, almost

every

> lyme sufferer will have problems there sooner or later.

>

> so I do recommend a sort of addition of protocols to fill in gaps

> from B protocol, as lyme is a crazily complex disease!

>

> Selma

>

[Guest guest]

Jill; thanks for telling your experience here.

The more I check OUTSIDE the lymestrategies forum, the more I'm convinced about

disinformation there and/or censorship.

Selma

:

>

> Dagmar, the salt/c was the worst thing I ever tried in my life, and

> injured my kidneys/body. Just curious--you say it was a radical 1960's

> cure. I've wondered where it came from. I'd like to know more. Thanks.

> Also I agree w/ Finette...don't hide anything. There are various

> protocols with varying degrees of risk and success, but having an open

> discussion of both is so important, and salt/c is not open.

>

> Anyway I'd be interested in knowing more of the history behind it.

>

> Thanks...and if anyone has tried crytoplepis yet, I'd be curious to

> hear about that too.

>

>

> >

> > Dave,

> >

> > I have tried the salt and C protocol in my most desperately ill

> times, but I

> > also believe it is bad for you. It was a radical 1960s protocol to

> cure

> > severe illness, it is very rough on your body, reminds me kind of

> chemo therapy.

> > The salt kills a lot. I did end up with an electrolyte imbalance.

> I still

> > take a lot of the vitamin C, antioxidants are less harmfull then

> salt in my

> > opinion. I am also (like some) on a partial Buhner protocol,

> combined with

> > traditional western doctors care. So far so good, I am slowly

> improving a

> > little.

> >

> > Dagmar

>