Re: OT: Ticks carrying bart

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but a friend of mine took bio/chem classes in college,

they studied LD, she said lots of bugs can carry co-infections, but the

only bug that carries Lyme is the deer tick, but it can carry

co-infections along w/LD. You can be bit by a deer tick, a flea, a horse

fly, a mosquito, etc. if they fed on something that had a co-infection,

they can feed on you and transfer it. The Lyme disease bacteria is

specific for the deer tick. I'm sure as time goes by and these bugs are

feeding on all different hosts and adapting to different climates, the

bacteria's can turn into new bacteria's, etc. You can be bit by a deer

tick and catch a co-infection like Bart., but not catch Lyme because it

wasn't carrying it at the time.

Regular mainstream dr's don't even believe in late stage Lyme, they feel

that once you've been given the initial abx it kills the bacteria and

you're cured, if they don't believe in LSD, why would they believe in

co-infections.

I have LD and several co-infections, and they did the standard CDC tests

and said I didn't have LD, when I was tested at Igenex, I had 3 bands for

Lyme and several co-infections showing up. The CDC sets the standards,

and they don't want mass hysteria in the country, or in the healthcare

system, so they create these unrealistic tests/stat's and people don't get

well.

From:

" knot_weed " <tek0nik@...>

To:

Date:

08/19/2010 09:08 AM

Subject:

[ ] Re: Being Alone

Sent by:

>

> I am also pretty sure that I have Bartonella. I tried to sell

> that to an infectious disease doctor but she actually laughed. " Ticks

> do not carry Bartonella! " she cried. When I got home I googled; Ticks

> - Bartonella - CDC and sure enough they said that ticks DO CARRY

> Bartonella.

Ticks carry Bartonella, but some scientists/medics doubt that you can get

Bart from a tick byte. Apparently that has never been proven, although

there is lots of indirect evidence that it happens (e.g. from lymies with

coinfections). In my country (Netherlands) many docs also claim that you

can't get Bart from a tick byte.

Any U.S. tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail was not intended or

written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of

avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or

applicable state or local tax law provisions.

________________________________________________________________________

The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and

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at this e-mail address by forwarding this message to no-more-mail@.... If

you do so, the sender of this message will be notified promptly. Our principal

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[Guest guest]

Good morning everyone. I got bit in 1992 (had bull's eye rash) cleaning out a

trailer that the family used when we went camping in Northern California. I was

treated for SIX months of abx. Had an emergency hysterectomy (1994) and it

reawakened and activated my Lyme. From 1994 to 5/2010 all the doctors I saw said

it was Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia always even when I mentioned being bit.

Last month I found out I had Late stage Lyme. I'm angry at what I have lost in

my life, my career, my marriage, my home. I lived alone for a few years until I

felt like I was slowly dying. I have been through first abx treatment and

nothing. Now doing a CD57 to see the numbers there. What I wanted to say is I

got bit not by an adult tick but a Nymph and that tick was not on a deer,

because he was too small for a deer or the deer to big, but that tick and others

in that trailer were on Deer Mice!!! You just never know.

As for being alone, I have three grown kids in their late 20's and parents, what

little friends remain - but none believe me that I'm sick. " You are too pretty

to be sick " WHAT!?? " You don't look sick at all " . You can have people around

you and still feel all alone and lonely. I'm taking it one day at a time.

Just my two cents worth... Gotta get ready, another doctor appt. the Lyme or

co-infections is trying to take my hearing away... So I'm fighting that too.

Sorry for going off and venting. I hope that if any of you need someone to talk

to... Let me know and I'll give you my number and support. I know how lonely

this illness really is.

((Hugs))

Jeannie

Have a good day!

[ ] Re: Being Alone

Sent by:

>

> I am also pretty sure that I have Bartonella. I tried to sell

> that to an infectious disease doctor but she actually laughed. " Ticks

> do not carry Bartonella! " she cried. When I got home I googled; Ticks

> - Bartonella - CDC and sure enough they said that ticks DO CARRY

> Bartonella.

Ticks carry Bartonella, but some scientists/medics doubt that you can get

Bart from a tick byte. Apparently that has never been proven, although

there is lots of indirect evidence that it happens (e.g. from lymies with

coinfections). In my country (Netherlands) many docs also claim that you

can't get Bart from a tick byte.

Any U.S. tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail was not intended or

written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of

avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or

applicable state or local tax law provisions.

________________________________________________________________________

The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and

protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to

the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,

distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by

replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

Notice required by law: This e-mail may constitute an advertisement or

solicitation under U.S. law, if its primary purpose is to advertise or promote a

commercial product or service. You may choose not to receive advertising and

promotional messages from Ernst & Young LLP (except for Ernst & Young Online and

the ey.com website, which track e-mail preferences through a separate process)

at this e-mail address by forwarding this message to no-more-mail@.... If

you do so, the sender of this message will be notified promptly. Our principal

postal address is 5 Times Square, New York, NY 10036. Thank you. Ernst & Young

LLP

[Guest guest]

>

> I could be wrong, but a friend of mine took bio/chem classes in college,

> they studied LD, she said lots of bugs can carry co-infections, but the

> only bug that carries Lyme is the deer tick, but it can carry

> co-infections along w/LD. You can be bit by a deer tick, a flea, a horse

> fly, a mosquito, etc. if they fed on something that had a co-infection,

> they can feed on you and transfer it. The Lyme disease bacteria is

> specific for the deer tick.

no, that's definitely NOT correct. The LD bacteria (Borrelia burgdorferi sl) is

carried by many different tick species (e.g. bird ticks) and other arthropods.

In some areas as much as 25% of mosquitos carry Bb.

where the confusion probably comes from is the question if you can be infected.

e.g. most scientists believe that Bb infection from a mosquito is not possible,

except in the unlikely event that you squash the critter in the bite wound, and

accidentally infect the small wound with some Bb's that it was carrying.

I'm sure there are a lot of things that we don't know, e.g. can you be infected

by the small 'cocoid bodies' from Bb (they look like spores, and are almost

invisible even with a good microscope, and probably invisible to all serologic

tests).

There also are many unknow species from Bb and other spirochetes (e.g. in a

recent study over 90% of the spirochetes found in mosquitos were from unknown

species).

> I'm sure as time goes by and these bugs are

> feeding on all different hosts and adapting to different climates, the

> bacteria's can turn into new bacteria's, etc.

yes, they are evolving fast due to climate change etc., but a major factor seems

to be adapting to different hosts - this is why Bb spreads very fast. There is

some link between Bb (sub)species and arthropod hosts, but it is not very

strict.

> I have LD and several co-infections, and they did the standard CDC tests

> and said I didn't have LD, when I was tested at Igenex, I had 3 bands for

> Lyme and several co-infections showing up.

For sure the CDC criteria are totally unsuitable for medical diagnostics. They

were designed for monitoring spread of the disease, and in this case something

can be said for having an extremely specific test (make sure that you don't

include other diseases) that maybe misses 90% of cases.

[Guest guest]

Of course, when we know we are being bitten by a mosquito, what is the normal

reaction? We slap it. Usual result? Squashed mosquito. Seems pretty likely to me

that the bite wound is vulnerable to whatever the mosquito is carrying at that

point.

Steve C.

________________________________

From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...>

Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 9:04:26 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]OT: Ticks carrying bart

>

> I could be wrong, but a friend of mine took bio/chem classes in college,

> they studied LD, she said lots of bugs can carry co-infections, but the

> only bug that carries Lyme is the deer tick, but it can carry

> co-infections along w/LD. You can be bit by a deer tick, a flea, a horse

> fly, a mosquito, etc. if they fed on something that had a co-infection,

> they can feed on you and transfer it. The Lyme disease bacteria is

> specific for the deer tick.

no, that's definitely NOT correct. The LD bacteria (Borrelia burgdorferi sl) is

carried by many different tick species (e.g. bird ticks) and other arthropods.

In some areas as much as 25% of mosquitos carry Bb.

where the confusion probably comes from is the question if you can be infected.

e.g. most scientists believe that Bb infection from a mosquito is not possible,

except in the unlikely event that you squash the critter in the bite wound, and

accidentally infect the small wound with some Bb's that it was carrying.

I'm sure there are a lot of things that we don't know, e.g. can you be infected

by the small 'cocoid bodies' from Bb (they look like spores, and are almost

invisible even with a good microscope, and probably invisible to all serologic

tests).

There also are many unknow species from Bb and other spirochetes (e.g. in a

recent study over 90% of the spirochetes found in mosquitos were from unknown

species).

> I'm sure as time goes by and these bugs are

> feeding on all different hosts and adapting to different climates, the

> bacteria's can turn into new bacteria's, etc.

yes, they are evolving fast due to climate change etc., but a major factor seems

to be adapting to different hosts - this is why Bb spreads very fast. There is

some link between Bb (sub)species and arthropod hosts, but it is not very

strict.

> I have LD and several co-infections, and they did the standard CDC tests

> and said I didn't have LD, when I was tested at Igenex, I had 3 bands for

> Lyme and several co-infections showing up.

For sure the CDC criteria are totally unsuitable for medical diagnostics. They

were designed for monitoring spread of the disease, and in this case something

can be said for having an extremely specific test (make sure that you don't

include other diseases) that maybe misses 90% of cases.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the clarification, I thought LD wasn't specific to the deer

tick, but this is what they are teaching in bio/chem. classes, go figure!

I felt that other ticks, could carry it, I think since it was first

discovered in Lyme, CT (which I live nearby) where it was dubbed Lyme

Disease, I think LD has been around for a very, very long time, it just

took the medical field a long time to admit it and log it into the medical

journals.

From:

" knot_weed " <tek0nik@...>

To:

Date:

08/19/2010 12:05 PM

Subject:

Re: [ ]OT: Ticks carrying bart

Sent by:

>

> I could be wrong, but a friend of mine took bio/chem classes in college,

> they studied LD, she said lots of bugs can carry co-infections, but the

> only bug that carries Lyme is the deer tick, but it can carry

> co-infections along w/LD. You can be bit by a deer tick, a flea, a horse

> fly, a mosquito, etc. if they fed on something that had a co-infection,

> they can feed on you and transfer it. The Lyme disease bacteria is

> specific for the deer tick.

no, that's definitely NOT correct. The LD bacteria (Borrelia burgdorferi

sl) is carried by many different tick species (e.g. bird ticks) and other

arthropods. In some areas as much as 25% of mosquitos carry Bb.

where the confusion probably comes from is the question if you can be

infected. e.g. most scientists believe that Bb infection from a mosquito

is not possible, except in the unlikely event that you squash the critter

in the bite wound, and accidentally infect the small wound with some Bb's

that it was carrying.

I'm sure there are a lot of things that we don't know, e.g. can you be

infected by the small 'cocoid bodies' from Bb (they look like spores, and

are almost invisible even with a good microscope, and probably invisible

to all serologic tests).

There also are many unknow species from Bb and other spirochetes (e.g. in

a recent study over 90% of the spirochetes found in mosquitos were from

unknown species).

> I'm sure as time goes by and these bugs are

> feeding on all different hosts and adapting to different climates, the

> bacteria's can turn into new bacteria's, etc.

yes, they are evolving fast due to climate change etc., but a major factor

seems to be adapting to different hosts - this is why Bb spreads very

fast. There is some link between Bb (sub)species and arthropod hosts, but

it is not very strict.

> I have LD and several co-infections, and they did the standard CDC tests

> and said I didn't have LD, when I was tested at Igenex, I had 3 bands

for

> Lyme and several co-infections showing up.

For sure the CDC criteria are totally unsuitable for medical diagnostics.

They were designed for monitoring spread of the disease, and in this case

something can be said for having an extremely specific test (make sure

that you don't include other diseases) that maybe misses 90% of cases.

Any U.S. tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail was not intended or

written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of

avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or

applicable state or local tax law provisions.

________________________________________________________________________

The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and

protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to

the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,

distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by

replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

Notice required by law: This e-mail may constitute an advertisement or

solicitation under U.S. law, if its primary purpose is to advertise or promote a

commercial product or service. You may choose not to receive advertising and

promotional messages from Ernst & Young LLP (except for Ernst & Young Online and

the ey.com website, which track e-mail preferences through a separate process)

at this e-mail address by forwarding this message to no-more-mail@.... If

you do so, the sender of this message will be notified promptly. Our principal

postal address is 5 Times Square, New York, NY 10036. Thank you. Ernst & Young

LLP

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennie,

Wow Jennie,

Just let it out. You have good reason to be angry and I feel for you. However,

you are not alone and this is the perfect place to vent, I think. I hope it is

allowed. I haven't been as sick or suffered as long as you, but I know how you

feel. I went from dr to dr. for 18 months and was told it was in my head. I

finally got so sick that I could barely walk. I knew there was something

seriously wrong with me. I was checked by all the specialists, because every

single system in my body was involved (endocrine, neurological, eyes, joints,

neck pain, heart, liver, kidneys). I have 3 sons and only one believed that I

was sick and kept on helping me and trying to find out what was wrong. I was

also told: " Oh, but you look really good, may-be a little tired, though " . I

live alone too, now and a few months ago I thought I was dying, my body was

dying. I have one supportive son, very few friends as I am new to this area

(Blacksburg) and I haven't been able to go out much to meet people because of

this horrible disease. I am at the beginning of my fight too. I started 3 weeks

ago and it is scary, but I am not giving up. Maud

On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Jeannie wrote:

> Good morning everyone. I got bit in 1992 (had bull's eye rash) cleaning out a

trailer that the family used when we went camping in Northern California. I was

treated for SIX months of abx. Had an emergency hysterectomy (1994) and it

reawakened and activated my Lyme. From 1994 to 5/2010 all the doctors I saw said

it was Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia always even when I mentioned being bit.

>

> Last month I found out I had Late stage Lyme. I'm angry at what I have lost in

my life, my career, my marriage, my home. I lived alone for a few years until I

felt like I was slowly dying. I have been through first abx treatment and

nothing. Now doing a CD57 to see the numbers there. What I wanted to say is I

got bit not by an adult tick but a Nymph and that tick was not on a deer,

because he was too small for a deer or the deer to big, but that tick and others

in that trailer were on Deer Mice!!! You just never know.

>

> As for being alone, I have three grown kids in their late 20's and parents,

what little friends remain - but none believe me that I'm sick. " You are too

pretty to be sick " WHAT!?? " You don't look sick at all " . You can have people

around you and still feel all alone and lonely. I'm taking it one day at a time.

>

> Just my two cents worth... Gotta get ready, another doctor appt. the Lyme or

co-infections is trying to take my hearing away... So I'm fighting that too.

>

> Sorry for going off and venting. I hope that if any of you need someone to

talk to... Let me know and I'll give you my number and support. I know how

lonely this illness really is.

>

> ((Hugs))

> Jeannie

> Have a good day!

>

>

> [ ] Re: Being Alone

> Sent by:

>

>

>

> >

> > I am also pretty sure that I have Bartonella. I tried to sell

> > that to an infectious disease doctor but she actually laughed. " Ticks

> > do not carry Bartonella! " she cried. When I got home I googled; Ticks

> > - Bartonella - CDC and sure enough they said that ticks DO CARRY

> > Bartonella.

>

> Ticks carry Bartonella, but some scientists/medics doubt that you can get

> Bart from a tick byte. Apparently that has never been proven, although

> there is lots of indirect evidence that it happens (e.g. from lymies with

> coinfections). In my country (Netherlands) many docs also claim that you

> can't get Bart from a tick byte.

>

> Any U.S. tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail was not intended or

written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of

avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or

applicable state or local tax law provisions.

> __________________________________________________________

> The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential

and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to

the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,

distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by

replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

>

> Notice required by law: This e-mail may constitute an advertisement or

solicitation under U.S. law, if its primary purpose is to advertise or promote a

commercial product or service. You may choose not to receive advertising and

promotional messages from Ernst & Young LLP (except for Ernst & Young Online and

the ey.com website, which track e-mail preferences through a separate process)

at this e-mail address by forwarding this message to no-more-mail@.... If you

do so, the sender of this message will be notified promptly. Our principal

postal address is 5 Times Square, New York, NY 10036. Thank you. Ernst & Young

LLP

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Maud,

I'm sorry to hear about your struggle with Lyme and I wish you well on your

journey to healing. I'm glad at least one of your sons was and is there for

you.

Good luck Maud,

Jeannie

Have a good day!

> [ ] Re: Being Alone

> Sent by:

>

>

>

> >

> > I am also pretty sure that I have Bartonella. I tried to sell

> > that to an infectious disease doctor but she actually laughed. " Ticks

> > do not carry Bartonella! " she cried. When I got home I googled; Ticks

> > - Bartonella - CDC and sure enough they said that ticks DO CARRY

> > Bartonella.

>

> Ticks carry Bartonella, but some scientists/medics doubt that you can get

> Bart from a tick byte. Apparently that has never been proven, although

> there is lots of indirect evidence that it happens (e.g. from lymies with

> coinfections). In my country (Netherlands) many docs also claim that you

> can't get Bart from a tick byte.

>

> Any U.S. tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail was not intended or

written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of

avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or

applicable state or local tax law provisions.

> __________________________________________________________

> The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential

and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to

the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,

distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by

replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

>

> Notice required by law: This e-mail may constitute an advertisement or

solicitation under U.S. law, if its primary purpose is to advertise or promote a

commercial product or service. You may choose not to receive advertising and

promotional messages from Ernst & Young LLP (except for Ernst & Young Online and

the ey.com website, which track e-mail preferences through a separate process)

at this e-mail address by forwarding this message to no-more-mail@.... If you

do so, the sender of this message will be notified promptly. Our principal

postal address is 5 Times Square, New York, NY 10036. Thank you. Ernst & Young

LLP

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for the clarification, I thought LD wasn't specific to the deer

> tick, but this is what they are teaching in bio/chem. classes, go figure!

>

> I felt that other ticks, could carry it, I think since it was first

> discovered in Lyme, CT (which I live nearby) where it was dubbed Lyme

> Disease, I think LD has been around for a very, very long time, it just

> took the medical field a long time to admit it and log it into the medical

> journals.

yes, there is a lot of ignorance in the medical/scientific community.

Borrelia has been around for a long time, one of the reasons that it is

spreading quickly now is that it is not confined to one arthropod (or mammalian)

host. Their genetics makes them very good at adapting to different environments.

judging from 'background exposure' to Borrelia in some areas, there are probably

other Bb infection routes that are not yet recognized by science.