Guest guest Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 > > I see that for Japanese Knotweed decoction he suggests 28g rams which is much higher than the encapsulated dosage. Is this because the decoction is less efficient at extracting benificent elements. > > I'm curious what dosage those of you using decotions are using. Do any of you drink the sludge as well? > I have very little experience with decoctions, except for catsclaw (bad taste IMHO, I guess a bit like chewing on cigar boxes for a long time; and it strongly stains the teeth). With decoctions not all components in the herb are used, especially if you discard all the sludge. Some (bio-)chemicals will never dissolve in water, no matter how long you simmer them. That's why sometimes alcohol extractions or oil preparations are used. For some components, most of it will remain in the sludge. For others, probably a part will disappear (react chemically) when simmering for a long time. So, you are 'discarding' part of the herbs AND you are also taking a different porportion of the components compared to using pills. In general yes, you will need more herbs. I guess the best suggestion is to start with s dosage and 'listen to your body' for (side-) effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 > For some components, most of it will remain in the sludge. For others, probably a part will disappear (react chemically) when simmering for a long time. So, you are 'discarding' part of the herbs AND you are also taking a different porportion of the components compared to using pills. In general yes, you will need more herbs. I guess the best suggestion is to start with s dosage and 'listen to your body' for (side-) effects. > Thanks Knotweed. I instinctively came to the same conclusion. However what encouraged me to proceed with decoction approach was that the native preparation in the jungle is to boil the cats claw. Andrographis is also traditionally prepared as a tea in India. And then actually gives a formula for Knotwed decoction. I find it far preferable to drink the stuff than swallow 60+ capsules a day. Naturally if I'm not getting the right dosage this way it won't work. I did herx for a few days, so it was doing something. The other benefit is that I haven't noticed any of side effects that I see mentioned and I find for me at least the drink to be quite tolerable. Its even a little bit refreshing on a hot day even if it is bitter. I wish I could test the tea and see how much of the herb is making it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 > > the native preparation in the jungle is to boil the cats claw. yes I know; I got some of the original stuff (vine chunks) from the South American jungle before I started on the protocol. You have to simmer small chunks for 30 minutes or so; the decoction has a strong brown/red color. Takes a lot of work (and preparation time), the chunks are very tough ... > I find it far preferable to drink the stuff than swallow 60+ capsules a day. Naturally if I'm not getting the right dosage this way it won't work. yes, that was my major problem with the protocol too. I have difficult swallowing more than a few gelatin pills. There were some other good suggestions on the forum, like making your own combo pills (not capsules) from herb bulk powder, or mixing it with certain foods to make it more attractive. > I wish I could test the tea and see how much of the herb is making it. even if you could, the percentage that makes it into the tea would probably vary strongly between individual components of the herb. On the other side, I don't think all of the herb components are extracted in your stomach/gut either, when taking gelatin capsules or pills. I don't think 'herxing'(whatever it is) is a reliable indicator. People seem to herx less on the Buhner protocol than on ABX, and some (including me) don't have any obvious herx reactions (maybe because the bacterial load already went down after using one year of ABX). The only serious potential side effect seems to be the rare allergic reaction to andrographis; the other side effects don't seem an issue to me, if you get gut problems you will stop automaticallly ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Hi, I am about to start the protocol using decoctions with my two teenagers. I bought the cut and sift Andrographis, Knotweed, Eleuthero and Cat's Claw. I want to make the first decoction tomorrow and wonder where to start. We are all allergic to corn and soy and have glutamate issues so capsules are out (veggie capsules contain corn and gelatin capsules contain free glutamates and both may be made using cornstarch). I tasted a tiny piece of the Andrographis today and it is quite bitter but I also ordered some dried stevia leaves. I intend to boil them along with the Andrographis to make it taste better. Would you suggest starting with the Andrographis or Knotweed? We all suffer mainly with fatigue and environmental and food allergies so we would like to work on those issues first, if possible. I have read the book but there isn't much information about making decoctions from the cut and sift herbs. Is there a guide available somewhere? I noticed you used the powders, has anyone tried the cut and sift herbs? > > > For some components, most of it will remain in the sludge. For others, probably a part will disappear (react chemically) when simmering for a long time. So, you are 'discarding' part of the herbs AND you are also taking a different porportion of the components compared to using pills. In general yes, you will need more herbs. I guess the best suggestion is to start with s dosage and 'listen to your body' for (side-) effects. > > > > Thanks Knotweed. I instinctively came to the same conclusion. However what encouraged me to proceed with decoction approach was that the native preparation in the jungle is to boil the cats claw. Andrographis is also traditionally prepared as a tea in India. And then actually gives a formula for Knotwed decoction. > > I find it far preferable to drink the stuff than swallow 60+ capsules a day. Naturally if I'm not getting the right dosage this way it won't work. I did herx for a few days, so it was doing something. The other benefit is that I haven't noticed any of side effects that I see mentioned and I find for me at least the drink to be quite tolerable. Its even a little bit refreshing on a hot day even if it is bitter. > > I wish I could test the tea and see how much of the herb is making it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 > I tasted a tiny piece of the Andrographis today and it is quite bitter but I also ordered some dried stevia leaves. I intend to boil them along with the Andrographis to make it taste better. Would you suggest starting with the Andrographis or Knotweed? I suggest starting with the knotweed, according to it is the most important herb and andrographis is lower on the list now. Andrographis has by far the strongest taste; I'm using the pills and found I can take them with coffee, that masks the extremely bitter taste. Maybe also with strong chocolate milk. If you take just the pill (or decoction) it is very unpleasant taste. > We all suffer mainly with fatigue and environmental and food allergies so we would like to work on those issues first, if possible. I have read the book but there isn't much information about making decoctions from the cut and sift herbs. Definitely read the book first, before starting the protocol. Buhner prefers the whole herb, but if you want to use decoctions he has some instructions for most herbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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