Re: astragalus and Cat's Claw Autoimmune exacerbation

[Guest guest]

That is helpful information on how Astragalus works. I've found that even the

Cat's Claw exacerbated my autoimmune condition (at just 500 mg/3 times day). I

had written to Buhner and he suggested taking only the Knotweed and

after some time adding only 1 capsule of Cat's Claw per week (which I have not

tried yet). I'm finding it difficult to balance needing to enhance the immune

system to fight Lyme with keeping the immune system in check not to aggravate

autoimmune conditions.

>

> They can identify large numbers of tissues in the host and prefer tissue sites

like joints, brain, eyes, collagenous sites. They live deeper in tissues than

other types of bacteria. There is an imbalance in Th1 and Th2. Th (T-helper)

cells have two types. Th1 are IL-2, TNFb. Interferon Gamma. Th2 are IL-4, etc.

In initial infection, a powerful Th1 response is initiated. Balancing Th1 and

Th2 response leads to better response in treatment. Most late stage chronic

conditions tend to be Th2 dominant. Lyme is Th1. This is why Astragalus is not

good in late stage Lyme. It is very good for acute Lyme as it powerfully

activates Th1. In chronic Lyme, this exacerbates autoimmune conditions and you

do not want more Th1.

>

> just ran across this paragraph in the presentation file. might explain the

reaction to astragalus.

> jaen

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am wondering what autoimmune condition you have. I have vitiligo. When I took

cat's claw several years ago, it spread quickly. Now, after sseveral years of

treatment, I'm taking a small amount of cat's claw and not noticing any

spreading of the depigmentation. Granted, its a small amount of cat's claw

within a mix of herbs, but perhaps our systems get straightened out some with

treatment so the cat's claw does not cause the autoimmune stimulation???? We

can hope anyway! lol! jo

> >

> > They can identify large numbers of tissues in the host and prefer tissue

sites like joints, brain, eyes, collagenous sites. They live deeper in tissues

than other types of bacteria. There is an imbalance in Th1 and Th2. Th

(T-helper) cells have two types. Th1 are IL-2, TNFb. Interferon Gamma. Th2 are

IL-4, etc. In initial infection, a powerful Th1 response is initiated. Balancing

Th1 and Th2 response leads to better response in treatment. Most late stage

chronic conditions tend to be Th2 dominant. Lyme is Th1. This is why Astragalus

is not good in late stage Lyme. It is very good for acute Lyme as it powerfully

activates Th1. In chronic Lyme, this exacerbates autoimmune conditions and you

do not want more Th1.

> >

> > just ran across this paragraph in the presentation file. might explain the

reaction to astragalus.

> > jaen

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I have Myasthenia Gravis (mild, but still there) and Alopecia Areata (autoimmune

hair loss where the body attacks the hair follicles causing a bald circle). I

noticed that the bald spot got worse with the Cat's Claw. However, one doctor

said that he thought the hair loss was actually a Lyme rash, which doesn't make

sense based on timing, but does make sense in that my hair regrowth happened in

a perfect bulls-eye pattern. So, with my relatively indeterminate Igenex test

and these other diagnoses, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what disease I really

have (or all of them!).

I would like to take the Cat's Claw again, along with the rest of the protocol,

to see if I really start feeling better.

> > >

> > > They can identify large numbers of tissues in the host and prefer tissue

sites like joints, brain, eyes, collagenous sites. They live deeper in tissues

than other types of bacteria. There is an imbalance in Th1 and Th2. Th

(T-helper) cells have two types. Th1 are IL-2, TNFb. Interferon Gamma. Th2 are

IL-4, etc. In initial infection, a powerful Th1 response is initiated. Balancing

Th1 and Th2 response leads to better response in treatment. Most late stage

chronic conditions tend to be Th2 dominant. Lyme is Th1. This is why Astragalus

is not good in late stage Lyme. It is very good for acute Lyme as it powerfully

activates Th1. In chronic Lyme, this exacerbates autoimmune conditions and you

do not want more Th1.

> > >

> > > just ran across this paragraph in the presentation file. might explain

the reaction to astragalus.

> > > jaen

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

What kind of " autoimmune-related conditions " are you experiencing?

I've heard that Astragalus is contraindicated for chronic Lyme, so I don't take

it.

>

> That is helpful information on how Astragalus works. I've found that even the

Cat's Claw exacerbated my autoimmune condition (at just 500 mg/3 times day). I

had written to Buhner and he suggested taking only the Knotweed and

after some time adding only 1 capsule of Cat's Claw per week (which I have not

tried yet). I'm finding it difficult to balance needing to enhance the immune

system to fight Lyme with keeping the immune system in check not to aggravate

autoimmune conditions.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> So, with my relatively indeterminate Igenex test and these other diagnoses,

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what disease I really have (or all of them!).

good question. I think that many auto-immune diseases are a combination of a

stressed immune system (from toxins, bad bood, radiation, whatever) and a

trigger that causes the system to collapse or go berserk. The trigger will often

be a viral or bacterial infection.

Maybe the symptoms that develops depends on the trigger, or the place (tissue)

where the trigger strikes. Borrelia has many similarities with our own body

antigens, if only because it keeps changing them in order to evade the immune

system. Because of that it is likely that it can trigger disease in many

tissues. We already know that there is some association between the Borrelia

subspecies and the kind of symptoms (e.g. arthritic, neuro or skin problems).

I think someone with Lyme (Borrelia infection) could have symptoms of many

different auto-immune diseases, at the same time or in a certain progression.

[Guest guest]

Yes, astragalus is contraindicated in late stage lyme, as per Buhner. jo

> >

> > That is helpful information on how Astragalus works. I've found that even

the Cat's Claw exacerbated my autoimmune condition (at just 500 mg/3 times day).

I had written to Buhner and he suggested taking only the Knotweed and

after some time adding only 1 capsule of Cat's Claw per week (which I have not

tried yet). I'm finding it difficult to balance needing to enhance the immune

system to fight Lyme with keeping the immune system in check not to aggravate

autoimmune conditions.

> >

>