Herxing

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My husband has been fighting Lyme for a year (he got it 6 years

ago). He had to be decensitized to IV Rocephin due to allergic

reaction and the allergist gave him Singulair, Zyrtec, Pepcid,

Benadryl and Tylenol everyday. On IV Rocephin, he had the most

severe Herxing ever. He had fever and aches all over along with

heart issues. However, unlike other times, he was able to get out of

it with antihistmines and tylenol round the clock (as recommended

dosage).

Don't give up!

peace,

CKW

>

> Hi

> Is there a way to minimize herxing...an herb to take? detoxing? My

daughter is trying to get through 5 days a week of school. Because

she got so sick from 3 days of Biaxin, the doctor suggested Cumanda

and Samento. (spelling??)We are waiting for fry labs to come back for

babesia and bartonella and treatment will change if the tests come

back positive. I already suggested the organic coffee enema. She has

been sick since an operation in January....I suspect whatever was in

her body was dormant. Thanks!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re the IgeneX test, did they say you were positive? Can you let us know the

positive band numbers? Alternatively, you could go to _www.lymenet.org_

(http://www.lymenet.org) , click on Flash Discussion and then on Medical

Questions.

At the top there is a thread about the meaning of the bands, called Dr C's

Western blot explanation. - Robin

In a message dated 2/27/2009 2:24:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

lcmueller2000@... writes:

An introduction to myself and some questions. I am not CDC +, my

igenix showed some positives but not that many. However, I'm going to

try to follow the Buhner Protocol (I'm not waiting 8 months for my LLMD

apt to start treatment).

I don't have the typical symptoms. I was on antibiotics for a month,

quit due to candida (tried everything to get rid of), Tried Cowden

protocol for a month (quit due to the alcohol base of the products

irritating my IC).

I never felt better or worse, which makes me wonder if I even have Lyme.

My questions are (I have two important things coming up in the next 7

months and trying to plan when to start):

- How soon does the average herx start after beginning the protocol?

- How long does herxing last?

- Does the herxing improve after time and after how long?

Thanks!

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[Guest guest]

Herx started from day one for me.   What I've learned so far is that the

severity of Herx reaction depends alot on the state of one's liver since that's

the primary organ responsible for removing the toxins which cause the Herx

reaction.  I would make sure I had the liver and blood cleaning herbs in place

first to lessen the Herx reaction.   milk thistle (standardized), smilax, etc   

I've also read that coffee enemas, which I don't think is in the book will help

with the Herx reaction.  I haven't tried coffee enema yet but plan to soon.  

 

Also, in my case, reducing the amount of fat in the diet also helped alot with

Herx.  Since I can't eat wheat and dairy I was eating alot of almonds and nuts. 

When I cut back on the nuts I noticed a big difference in the Herx.

 

Best,

Roxanne

[Guest guest]

My Igenix test results were

IGM

34 IND

39 ++

41 IND

66 +

IGG

41 IND

58 ++

This test was taken in 2/06. I started feeling sick in 03/04 and

really sick in 08/04. I've always been told it's CFS.

Since I don't herx on treatments that I've tried for a month (cowden

and antibiotics), I question if it is lyme.

>

> Re the IgeneX test, did they say you were positive? Can you let us

know the

> positive band numbers? Alternatively, you could go to

_www.lymenet.org_

> (http://www.lymenet.org) , click on Flash Discussion and then on

Medical Questions.

> At the top there is a thread about the meaning of the bands,

called Dr C's

> Western blot explanation. - Robin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi - thx for posting your bands - here's the meaning of the bands:

34 - ospB - meaning outer surface protein, specific to Lyme

39 - the most specific antibody reaction to Lyme

41 - the flagella tail for borrelia bacteria in general

both 58 and 66 - heat shock proteins specific to Lyme

On the Dr C site I mentioned in the earlier email, many top Lyme doctors

think people are positive if they have one of the double-starred bands - ie,

really specific for Lyme. By that definition, you have band 39 and that is the

most specific band for Lyme.

Treating doctors go by clinical more than anything - if people are

presenting with symptoms, they get treated. Here's another site to look at

symptoms:

_www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDsymptoms.pdf_

(http://www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDsymptoms.pdf)

CFS can be a Lyme presentation.

In your case, I'd say you have a positive test. I'd say the main thing at

this point would be to get to a Lyme-treating doctor if you're not seeing one

yet and discuss treatment. You can find one if you go to _www.lymenet.org_

(http://www.lymenet.org) and post in the SeekingADoctor section. You can also

read on lymenet as there are patients there 24/7 discussing everything under

the sun related to Lyme, and you can post your questions there too. Hope this

helps! - Robin

In a message dated 2/28/2009 5:08:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

lcmueller2000@... writes:

My Igenix test results were

IGM

34 IND

39 ++

41 IND

66 +

IGG

41 IND

58 ++

This test was taken in 2/06. I started feeling sick in 03/04 and

really sick in 08/04. I've always been told it's CFS.

Since I don't herx on treatments that I've tried for a month (cowden

and antibiotics)and antibiotics)<WBR>, I qu

>

> Re the IgeneX test, did they say you were positive? Can you let us

know the

> positive band numbers? Alternatively, you could go to

_www.lymenet._www.

> (_http://www.lymenet.htt_ (http://www.lymenet.org/) ) , click on Flash

Discussion and then on

Medical Questions.

> At the top there is a thread about the meaning of the bands,

called Dr C's

> Western blot explanation. - Robin

>

>

>

**************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get s

updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone.

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[Guest guest]

I guess my issue is that I question if I have lyme since I didn't

herx when I tried antibiotics for a month, or on Cowden's protol for

a month. I felt the same. It seems like everyone else feels sick

quickly.

Also, I'm worried since my Interstitial Cystitis couldn't handle

samento in liquid form, I wonder if it will be able to handle the

brand in pill form suggested by Buhner.

>

> Hi - thx for posting your bands - here's the meaning of the bands:

>

> 34 - ospB - meaning outer surface protein, specific to Lyme

> 39 - the most specific antibody reaction to Lyme

> 41 - the flagella tail for borrelia bacteria in general

> both 58 and 66 - heat shock proteins specific to Lyme

>

> On the Dr C site I mentioned in the earlier email, many top Lyme

doctors

> think people are positive if they have one of the double-starred

bands - ie,

> really specific for Lyme. By that definition, you have band 39 and

that is the

> most specific band for Lyme.

>

> Treating doctors go by clinical more than anything - if people are

> presenting with symptoms, they get treated. Here's another site to

look at symptoms:

> _www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDsymptoms.pdf_

> (http://www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDsymptoms.pdf)

>

> CFS can be a Lyme presentation.

>

> In your case, I'd say you have a positive test. I'd say the main

thing at

> this point would be to get to a Lyme-treating doctor if you're not

seeing one

> yet and discuss treatment. You can find one if you go to

_www.lymenet.org_

> (http://www.lymenet.org) and post in the SeekingADoctor section.

You can also

> read on lymenet as there are patients there 24/7 discussing

everything under

> the sun related to Lyme, and you can post your questions there

too. Hope this

> helps! - Robin

[Guest guest]

Hi - It's also possible the abx dose you took wasn't a high enough dose. if

you want, you could raise the herx reaction question on lymenet and see what

people say - there are a couple hundred lyme patients who read it everyday and

can give you a general response.

_www.lymenet.org/flashdiscussion/medicalquestions_

(http://www.lymenet.org/flashdiscussion/medicalquestions) . - Robin

In a message dated 3/1/2009 5:52:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

lcmueller2000@... writes:

I guess my issue is that I question if I have lyme since I didn't

herx when I tried antibiotics for a month, or on Cowden's protol for

a month. I felt the same. It seems like everyone else feels sick

quickly.

Also, I'm worried since my Interstitial Cystitis couldn't handle

samento in liquid form, I wonder if it will be able to handle the

brand in pill form suggested by Buhner.

>

> Hi - thx for posting your bands - here's the meaning of the bands:

>

> 34 - ospB - meaning outer surface protein, specific to Lyme

> 39 - the most specific antibody reaction to Lyme

> 41 - the flagella tail for borrelia bacteria in general

> both 58 and 66 - heat shock proteins specific to Lyme

>

> On the Dr C site I mentioned in the earlier email, many top Lyme

doctors

> think people are positive if they have one of the double-starred

bands - ie,

> really specific for Lyme. By that definition, you have band 39 and

that is the

> most specific band for Lyme.

>

> Treating doctors go by clinical more than anything - if people are

> presenting with symptoms, they get treated. Here's another site to

look at symptoms:

> _www.lymeinfo. _www.lymein _www.lymei _www.lym

> (_http://www.lymeinfohttp://www.lyhttp://www.htt_

(http://www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDsymptoms.pdf) )

>

> CFS can be a Lyme presentation.

>

> In your case, I'd say you have a positive test. I'd say the main

thing at

> this point would be to get to a Lyme-treating doctor if you're not

seeing one

> yet and discuss treatment. You can find one if you go to

_www.lymenet._www.

> (_http://www.lymenet.htt_ (http://www.lymenet.org/) ) and post in the

SeekingADoctor section.

You can also

> read on lymenet as there are patients there 24/7 discussing

everything under

> the sun related to Lyme, and you can post your questions there

too. Hope this

> helps! - Robin

**************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a

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[Guest guest]

I don't think this gives a definite answer to the question if you have

lyme. Maybe the herxing depends on your spirochete load, your immune

system or other factors (we don't know for sure what 'herxing' is).

I had severe herxes when I started AB. Later during the AB treatments

and when I used Buhner herbs the next year, there were little or no

herx reactions while the bugs were still present. I still have Lyme

after over a year AB + 1 year Buhner (confirmed Bb infection, IgG + IgM

positive Western Blot, before and after the treatments ...).

> I guess my issue is that I question if I have lyme since I didn't

> herx when I tried antibiotics for a month, or on Cowden's protol for

> a month. I felt the same. It seems like everyone else feels sick

> quickly.

[Guest guest]

,

I started IV therapy last week and my doc put me on a pretty heavy dose of Doxy.

I have a history of reacting to doxy and about 10 minutes into my first infusion

I began to experience similar reactions. My nurse said this was an allergic

reaction and that this also made sense to her because I am highly allergic to

Sulfa drugs and doxy is a relative. I would venture to say that an immediate

harsh reaction that is so severe as to cause anaphalactic type response is more

than a herx and pretty early on to be a herx. My doc switched me to Rocephin and

I have now taken 4 doses with a bad initial reaction, but I was also going

through Oxycontin withdrawal (I'm an idiot...I thought that would be a good time

to stop taking Oxycontin for pain...cold turkey....because I was concerned about

addiction...well, addiction confirmed).

Anyway, my point here is that there could be so many factors involved in your

reaction, but I would say if it were my own health, body and doctor, I would not

continue on a medication that gives me that type of reaction. I am also a

Stay-at-home-mom to 3 small children and they need me to be functioning on some

level. I have decided that the slow-and-steady approach is what I will need to

take for my lifestyle. If you think that was a herx and you can handle having

that reaction, then I would say move forward with the treatment. I personally

would be scared to, though.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Lissa

>

> Hello to all,

>

> I read every day, but it's been a long time since I've written.

>

> Here's my problem/question.

>

> I've had Lyme since August of 1996. I've been on so many different

> orals; even 27 days on Claforan. I've herxed on all of them, and they

> weren't short herxes - sometimes weeks of herxing.

>

> But, because of an abnormal MRI and some special kind of EEG, my

> doctor told me that I had to go on IV Rocephin so that I could get

> help with the brain problems.

>

> The first 4 doses produced intense herxing, including fever, chills and

> the usual flu-like body aches and fatigue. I stopped after the 4th does

> because I came down with the Swine Flu. I went back on the Rocephin

> last Sunday and had another horrible herx. However, this time it caused

> severe coughing with less than a normal inhale. Within a few hours, my

> oxygen level began dropping and stayed around 83 all night, going up to

> the higher 80's by morning. Over the next few days, my oxygen level

> gradually went back to 97. I have not done another infusion of the

> Rocephin since last Sunday.

>

> Breathing was a little difficult, but not labored, despite the low oxygen

> level. Oh, and I vomited 3 times that night -have never done that on

> any other abx.

>

> My doctor said that all of this was a herx. I'm concerned that the low

> oxygen level & the severe coughing were an allergic reaction. I even

> called the nurse who inserted the picc line and she said that my

> inhaling and coughing and low oxygen levels sounded like I had been

> experiencing bronchospasms.

>

> So, my question is - has anyone experienced this kind of herxing on

> Rocephin, or any abx? And, why would my oxygen level drop so

> dangerously low. Does a hard herx like I had affect the broncho and

> lungs? And if so, why?

>

> Thanks for any info you can provide.

>

> Be happy, be well.

> Patty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is the kind of question your LLMD should handle, Pat.

The only data point I have on this issue is remember Mandy in " Under

Our Skin, " who damn near died of her herx. She ended up in the ER

(more than once, I think) with symptoms that sound a lot like yours.

Sara

On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:55 AM, McDermott wrote:

> Thanks for your input, Lissa. I'm sorry that you've been through

> such a difficult time too - and cold-turkey Oxy sure didn't help

> anything.

>

> I agree that it was more of an allergic reaction - now I just need

> to convince my doctor.

>

> I'll ask everyone else, one more time, is there any " herx " reason

> that would so severely impact my bronchial airways causing such

> coughing and extremely low oxygen saturation levels? Maybe I'm

> missing something about the Bb having infected my bronchial airways.

> If there's no Lyme reason why this should happen, I'm just going to

> have to persuade my doctor that this was, in fact, an allergic

> reaction.

>

> Thanks again, Lissa, for you help.

>

> Be happy; be well!

> Patty

>

[Guest guest]

Could it be possible that some herxing is due to normal bacteria being killed by

the antibiotic and releasing toxins? Who would know anything about this?