Herxing

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Herxing is the die off of the bacteria and our bodies feel bad as the toxins

create an allergic reaction during this time.

I was given this info from a nurse that has had lyme disease most of her

life. She suggested that I go to the drug store and buy Benadryl which is over

the counter now at 23mg and take that when herxing is bad. Sometimes, the

addition of zanax added to this gets us thru it. She was so very very right.

It helps me even during the light herxing.

Hope this helps. We all know Benadryl is for an allergic reaction and it

will work for us.

Hugs

Bev

[Guest guest]

I am new to this group, and Lyme, and have just been " listening " for a while

and trying to get my bearings. My daughter, Kate, who is seventeen, has

recently been diagnosed after five or more years of symptoms - the worst

being a headache 24/7 for over four of those years.

Now that the conversation has turned to Herxing, I need to jump in. Kate is

starting her third week of Doxycycline (only 50mg. 2x) and is so miserable

that she can barely stand it. MAJOR flare-up in about every inch of her

body. The doctor has her on Soma, a muscle relaxant, and Ibuprofen round

the clock, but they are either doing very little, or she's even worse

without them - we don't dare find out. Kate is a trooper and does not want

to quit, but listening to you all, I am getting worried that this may be TOO

intense

..

Thanks for any insights.

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

I'm sorry to hear your daughter has lyme. Do you have a good LLMD for her??

Is she on much needed supplements and probiotics, etc??

I was bitten at age 13, and my worst symptom has always been severe migraine

headaches, esp. during my menstrual cycle. Stress/excitement really wear me

down quickly. Now, I find working at avoiding the things that cause them and

eating right helps a great deal.

Fiorcet is the only drug that could ever stop my headaches. And like with a

herx, when you first feel it coming on, you HAVE to address a headache

immediately! If I don't take medicine and rest quietly right away, my

headache will get out of control very quickly.

I'm new to lyme treatment also. When I initially started treatment 100mg

Doxy 2X dly, I had to back down as it caused me to herx constantly. So I

went to 75mg 2x dly and worked my way up to the desired amt. of 400mg per

day.

My LLMD believes that there is nothing to be gained from trying to fight

through a herx. He has in fact had patients try to fight herxes and end up

much sicker than they were before the herx. He suggests that you stop abx

for 2-3 days, and let your system filter out some of the cooties. Then go

back on the abx.

I usually feel really great just before a herx. Then when the herx is

coming on, my nose starts to run, constantly. I become noticeably emotional.

(Which also contributes to migraines) Then I feel feverish and break into

sweats regularly. My muscles ache and my limbs are weak.Major fatigue sets

in. I have severe problems in my CNS from environmental stimuli, so I don't

even consider going anyplace to avoid further symptoms.

Sometimes one leg or arm doesn't work right. My left side of my face will

often sag. I will be especially forgetful, dizzy and slow. My skin burns and

I wake up in the middle of the night with body pain. All of this will hit me

within 24 hrs. That's when I stop taking the abx for usually 2 days.

Like many others, I can't handle the pain of a herx. I have to stop my meds

at that point OR FREAK OUT!! During herxes its real important to drink a lot

of water and rest too.

Best wishes with your daughter's treatment!

Carol Kerr

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am new to the list too. My name is and have

been on treatment for Lyme for a little over a year.

I have also experienced this type of reaction. In

doctor Burrascano's protocol he mentions that Questran

may help to clear the toxins responsible for this

reaction. I tried generic Questran (sweetened with

sugar)and could not tolerate it, then I tried

Prevalite (with aspartame instead of sugar) and it

really relieves some of the pains. In other occasions

adding a new antibiotic seems to help. In one

occasion I had to stop the antibiotic (Rocephin IV)

and was started on Claforan which did not gave me such

a strong reaction. Also, the Jemsek Clinic protocol

(end of page 4) gave some advice about this, even

though I have not tried it myself.

--- Carol Fitzgerald <cf@...> wrote:

> I am new to this group, and Lyme, and have just been

> " listening " for a while

> and trying to get my bearings. My daughter, Kate,

> who is seventeen, has

> recently been diagnosed after five or more years of

> symptoms - the worst

> being a headache 24/7 for over four of those years.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Had Lyme since 1974. First saw LLMD 5-14-03. Guess I've been in treatment

for nearly 3 mos. now.

Been jerked around all my life by MD's who meant well, but weren't equipped

to diagnose TBD's (tick born diseases). Now I suffer.

Just don't want others to suffer needlessly, so I spread the word!! What

you don't know may hurt you down the road!

Boy, sounds like her headaches are really bad. I'm so sorry to hear that.

Must be so hard on you to watch her suffer too. Bless your heart.

Glad you're gonna call your doc tomorrow. Sounds like she could use a little

break. Thankfully those strong reactions mean the cooties are dying!!! YEA!!

There will be better days down the road. Best wishes to both of you. Keep

us posted.

Carol Kerr

[Guest guest]

Carol

Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Whew! How many years have you

been in treatment?

My daughter's headache only responds to I.V. Toradol and Reglan combined,

which we do only when she gets to the point she can no longer tolerate it.

Then she gets a break for anywhere from a few hours to a week or so. She

has gotten relief through hypno-therapy for short periods, as well.

We have what I believe is a good LLMD. He is using antibiotics and

supplements, including Dr. Zhang's. I believe Kate has had lyme for a long

time, thus the strong reaction.

After hearing from you and others. I believe I will call the Dr. tomorrow

and see about taking a 2-3 day respite from the Doxycycline.

Thanks for your support!

Carol Fitzgerald

P.S.

We've got the water thing down - she thinks she's about to float away!

[Guest guest]

Bev,

Thanks so much for the Benadryl suggestion. I'm going to go and get some

this evening. We'll let you know if it helps!

Sincerely, Carol Fitzgerald

[Guest guest]

Try the prescription drug Actos. It helps with the herxing by reducing tumor

neucrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha), which contributes to the pain, and

intensity of symptoms. It's normally used for treating blood sugar problems,

but as an off label use it also acts on TNF-alpha. Dr. Shoemaker out in

land prescribes it because it has such a powerful effect on herxing. I

used it while herxing, and it made a huge difference. The difference was so

incredible that it even altered my brain wave activity. My bioneurofeedback

therapist said that I had my best brain wave activity ever while on Actos. I

don't have problems with elevated blood sugar, so it wasn't because of blood

sugar changes.

lindaj@...

RE: [ ] Herxing

> I am new to this group, and Lyme, and have just been " listening " for a

while

> and trying to get my bearings. My daughter, Kate, who is seventeen, has

> recently been diagnosed after five or more years of symptoms - the worst

> being a headache 24/7 for over four of those years.

>

>

>

> Now that the conversation has turned to Herxing, I need to jump in. Kate

is

> starting her third week of Doxycycline (only 50mg. 2x) and is so miserable

> that she can barely stand it. MAJOR flare-up in about every inch of her

> body. The doctor has her on Soma, a muscle relaxant, and Ibuprofen round

> the clock, but they are either doing very little, or she's even worse

> without them - we don't dare find out. Kate is a trooper and does not

want

> to quit, but listening to you all, I am getting worried that this may be

TOO

> intense

>

> .

>

> Thanks for any insights.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

'it has been proposed that most of the herx is in fact due to dehydration.'

Hi Doris. This is the first I have heard of this. Could you tell me the

reference where you learned of this? I am very interested. Thank you very much.

Re: [ ] Herxing

----- Original Message -----

From: Carol Fitzgerald

Now that the conversation has turned to Herxing, I need to jump in. Kate is

starting her third week of Doxycycline (only 50mg. 2x) and is so miserable

that she can barely stand it.

[Guest guest]

Personally I don't believe there is much benefit in killing yourself by taking

high doses at the beginning. I started at 100mg a day for a long time, then

200mg every other day, etc. working my way up. That way the herx wasn't

unbearable most of the time. (If someone is newly ill, then hitting them with a

lot at once might be better, but then they probably won't herx as much either.

But if she has been sick 5 years, what does it matter if it takes 3 or 6 months

at this point compared to being miserable all the time.) Anyway, if it is 50mg

2x a day, cut back to 50mg a day for a while.

I really tried to avoid all pain relievers because most of them aren't great for

your immune system and I think we need all the help there we can get. Sometimes

benadryl (antihistamine) would help. I read this on a page about herxing, that

sometimes it is an allergic response, and indeed sometimes I would get a stuffed

up nose and cough. You might give that a try too. Finally, make sure she

drinks tons and tons of water. Many many headaches are caused by dehydration,

and it has been proposed that most of the herx is in fact due to dehydration. I

thought this absurd when I first heard it, because I felt I drank a lot as it

was. But drinking even more did make a difference.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Carol Fitzgerald

Now that the conversation has turned to Herxing, I need to jump in. Kate is

starting her third week of Doxycycline (only 50mg. 2x) and is so miserable

that she can barely stand it.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, . I have a call in to the doctor and will ask him about

Actos. Will let you know what he says!

Sincerely, Carol

[Guest guest]

Doris -

Thank you so much for your input and support. We are trying the Benadryl

today.

Kate is drinking eight, eight ounce glasses of water a day. I don't know

how much more I can get down her! How much do you drink?

Carol

[Guest guest]

Something I learned to use for allergic reactions and have found to help

sometimes with herxes is Alka Seltzer Gold. Not all pharmacies carry it. I

believe this is the original of all the Alka Seltzers.

Bluesky

[Guest guest]

Hi

No, it wasn't a scientific article or anything. Somebody on one of the groups I

am on made a strong case for it and I told him he was crazy. He had some

scientific rationale but it was nothing published or proven. I still do not

believe 100% of herxing is from dehydration, but I did find that it improves if

I drink a lot. I have also found in general that 95% of headaches I and other

people get are from dehydration. My family, friends, everyone I know that ever

gets a headache, I make them drink a big glass of water and ask if their

headache went away, and they almost always are surprised to say yes. I'm sure

this phenomena can be found in the literature, but maybe not specifically

related to herx.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Hall

'it has been proposed that most of the herx is in fact due to dehydration.'

Hi Doris. This is the first I have heard of this. Could you tell me the

reference where you learned of this? I am very interested. Thank you very much.

[Guest guest]

I probably drink twice that most days. It is hard at first; basically I carry

one of those big slurpee type cups with a straw everywhere I go and sip on it.

I also find that if I add a tiny bit of gatorade to the water it goes down much

quicker. Sometimes I drink so much my stomach feels uncomfortably sloshy and

full; particular when I go in a hot tub / sauna where I am sweating. In that

case I know I have to drink a ton of water or I will get a headache. But just

sipping a little all the time is not uncomfortable.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

Kate is drinking eight, eight ounce glasses of water a day. I don't know

how much more I can get down her! How much do you drink?

[Guest guest]

Thank you Doris very much. Also, apple juice has more of something than gatorade

has, sorry, I forget the something. MAybe it is oh, I just can't remember. My

hubby looked it up for me. I'll try to post it sometime.

Re: [ ] Herxing

I probably drink twice that most days. It is hard at first; basically I carry

one of those big slurpee type cups with a straw everywhere I go and sip on it.

I also find that if I add a tiny bit of gatorade to the water it goes down much

quicker. Sometimes I drink so much my stomach feels uncomfortably sloshy and

full; particular when I go in a hot tub / sauna where I am sweating. In that

case I know I have to drink a ton of water or I will get a headache. But just

sipping a little all the time is not uncomfortable.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

Kate is drinking eight, eight ounce glasses of water a day. I don't know

how much more I can get down her! How much do you drink?

[Guest guest]

I agree as to dehydration causing headaches. Even when I was working I

would get involved in a project and before I knew it my head hurt and I

would guzzle liquid (was drinking diet coke then) and it would go away.

I do not promote diet coke, I do water now, I actually had headaches

caused by getting off the diet coke but then that was many years ago.

Hugs, Michele

-----Original Message-----

From: Doris Brown Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:21 PM

No, it wasn't a scientific article or anything. Somebody on one of the

groups I am on made a strong case for it and I told him he was crazy.

He had some scientific rationale but it was nothing published or proven.

I still do not believe 100% of herxing is from dehydration, but I did

find that it improves if I drink a lot. I have also found in general

that 95% of headaches I and other people get are from dehydration. My

family, friends, everyone I know that ever gets a headache, I make them

drink a big glass of water and ask if their headache went away, and they

almost always are surprised to say yes. I'm sure this phenomena can be

found in the literature, but maybe not specifically related to herx.

[Guest guest]

My problem with drinking enough water and avoiding drinking a lot at

once is that I am spending a lot of time in bed sleeping, like all but

3-4 hours a day but whenever I get up to take meds I eat some thing and

drink as much as possible. Water is the best, I have yet to find any

sport drink that does not have sugar in it and that is a big no-no for

me right now.

Hugs, Michele

-----Original Message-----

From: Doris Brown Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:24 PM

I probably drink twice that most days. It is hard at first; basically I

carry one of those big slurpee type cups with a straw everywhere I go

and sip on it. I also find that if I add a tiny bit of gatorade to the

water it goes down much quicker. Sometimes I drink so much my stomach

feels uncomfortably sloshy and full; particular when I go in a hot tub /

sauna where I am sweating. In that case I know I have to drink a ton of

water or I will get a headache. But just sipping a little all the time

is not uncomfortable.

[Guest guest]

bb-

When I was first on biaxin and plaquinel and I had a terrible herx

reaction that lasted for a good three months. Talk about being in

severe pain. I could barely move. Insomnia. Everything. Of course I

have mercury toxicity on top of this all and was doing chelating as

well. My skin burned, prickled. It eased up a little. Not much

though. The thing that lessened was migrianes and headaches.

Not being on meds though I'm still in pain. My fingers are numb. My

skin still hurts. My muscles are tender. My joints hurt. My pelvic

area hurts. The pain in joints and muscles travels of course. One

day it hurts more in my ankles, left leg and shoulders. The next day

its my chest and shoulders and left ankle. Heck it's hard to know

where it will be affected. I have headaches and migraines galore. I

still have fevers and night sweats. I'm on 800mg of Topamax a day

for the migraines. So anyway, the reaction on the doxy was not

herxing. It was a side effect of the med. I tested positive for

babiosis along with th lyme. Anyway, I'm hoping that the biaxin and

plaquinel will hold me over until I see the new doc.

The herx is just awful to go through, bb. But it is part of the

whole lyme stuff. It's because the spirochetes are being 'bombed'

and the toxins from the spirochets are being released into the body.

They have to be flushed out so drinking loads of water does help.

Keeping away from sugar helps too because sugar in the body doesn't

do the immune system any good. I know people don't like to drink

water, but it is the best thing to drink. I can't remember where I

read it but it said something like an ounce of water per your body

weight a day is the best ratio.

I'm just glad we have this group and the support of each other.

People who don't have lyme do not understand what it is like to deal

with this 24/7.

Ali

> Good Morning,

>

> I was recently put on doxy and mepron along with the biaxin and

plaquinel I was already taking. Talk about herxing!!! It took a

little time to start but did a few days ago. I had insomnia for 2

days (was up about 40 hours before getting a little sleep), every

part of my body hurts from head to toe.

>

> My feet are somtimes my worst problem, with the numbness and

hypersensetivity. I get burning sensations and ghost pains.

>

> bb

[Guest guest]

Good question Kim. I wonder if I am herxing now. I find I have to stay down

and not even talk or I become so extremely exhausted I am not able to function.

And my body will hurt. And I have shortness of breath.

Last week, I was able to get out and about for a few short term walks.

This week, I am hardly able to move and need to just stay calm and make sure

I am getting enough air into my lungs.

My body is so weak, even breathing and swallowing can be a problem if I don't

watch it.

Is that a herx? I don't know. But, I am on bicillin and have been for two

and a half months now.

When I get like this, I think of stopping all meds. But, then I told myself I

would finish out the bicillin. I have 12 more shots to give myself.

It got so bad on the amox and doxy that I did take myself off of it. I was to

weak to even fix myself something to eat that was liquid.

It would be the same with the bicillin only I have in home health care now

that helps prepare meals ahead of time for me so I can just go in the fridge and

take something out without having to prepare anything.

Kate

[Guest guest]

" Herx " is short for Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction. Jarisch & Herxheimer

first noted the reaction when treating syphilis with antibiotics. Lots

of bacteria die off all at once, releasing toxins and making the

patient sicker before starting to improve from treatment.

Jessie

>

> Can someone please explain " herxing? " Thanks. Judy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My herx's are strange. I cry easily and am down for a few days, and

then feel my glands swell in my neck. Then I ache, and get really

tired and sleep long hours. In the beginning I herxed for weeks,

and now it's about once a month. I remember wanting to be put on

the rack and stretched...my muscles ached so bad. It is worth it to

hang in there, but I know it can be pure hel*.

cooky

>

> What symptoms do you have for a herx?

>

> I just need to get thru this one. My head is pounding, I have the

> chills, hot and cold, and most of all of my muscles are extremely

tight.

> Last herx lasted for 2 weeks and then I saw 80 percent improvement.

> My dr. almost promises me or thinks I will get back to where I was

if i

> get thru the 2 weeks.

>

> Just venting. People who do not have Lyme or Fibro or " Lyme " as my

dr.

> says (fibro and myofasacial pain dx are a symptom), just don't

> understand.

>

>

> ---

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cooky!

My dr. stretched all of my muscles out and my thighs too. He worked

om my neck and back stretching them out and massaging them with my

shirt on to loosen the " myofascia " . My glands are not swollen it is

my neck mucles.

I had that neck surgery but it is the Fibro. Every dr. has said that

the neck surgery would not cause so many tight knots.

Well-I am not going off these abx until the dr. makes me. I felt

close to 80 percent better and even felt good enough to buy a house,

my muscles were looser, and my tender points less, and I even went

out with friends and could sit without pain. That is why I stsopped

writing on this board, I did not have the symptoms and felt good. I

even had energy to buy a house all due to getting better. I am moved

in.

It took about 1 month of being off of them to start going downwards.

This is crazy. Hope you are doing better.

Take care-

In , " cooky " <brntcooky_2000@...> wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> My herx's are strange. I cry easily and am down for a few days,

and

> then feel my glands swell in my neck. Then I ache, and get really

> tired and sleep long hours. In the beginning I herxed for weeks,

> and now it's about once a month. I remember wanting to be put on

> the rack and stretched...my muscles ached so bad. It is worth it

to

> hang in there, but I know it can be pure hel*.

> cooky

>

>

>

> >

> > What symptoms do you have for a herx?

> >

> > I just need to get thru this one. My head is pounding, I have the

> > chills, hot and cold, and most of all of my muscles are extremely

> tight.

> > Last herx lasted for 2 weeks and then I saw 80 percent

improvement.

> > My dr. almost promises me or thinks I will get back to where I

was

> if i

> > get thru the 2 weeks.

> >

> > Just venting. People who do not have Lyme or Fibro or " Lyme " as

my

> dr.

> > says (fibro and myofasacial pain dx are a symptom), just don't

> > understand.

> >

> >

> > ---

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If it doesn't make her too sleepy I always use Benadryl

In a message dated 6/19/2008 4:57:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mindysrq@... writes:

Hi

Is there a way to minimize herxing...an herb to take? detoxing? My daughter

is trying to get through 5 days a week of school. Because she got so sick

from 3 days of Biaxin, the doctor suggested Cumanda and Samento.

(spelling??)Because she got so sick from 3 days of Biaxin, the doctor suggested

Cumanda and

Samento. (spelling??)<WBR>We are waiting for fry labs to come back for

babesia and barto She has been sick since an operation in January....I suspect

whatever was in her body was dormant. Thanks!Th

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

[Guest guest]

I use BURBUR for detox reactions. It is available at Nutramedix. It appears to

be a natural herb but you can try it and find out for yourself.

From: Mindy Hellman <mindysrq@...>

Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 11:57:12 CDT

Subject: [ ] herxing

Hi

Is there a way to minimize herxing...an herb to take? detoxing? My daughter is

trying to get through 5 days a week of school. Because she got so sick from 3

days of Biaxin, the doctor suggested Cumanda and Samento. (spelling??)We are

waiting for fry labs to come back for babesia and bartonella and treatment will

change if the tests come back positive. I already suggested the organic coffee

enema. She has been sick since an operation in January....I suspect whatever

was in her body was dormant. Thanks!!