Re: Herx or getting worse

[Guest guest]

> I know that this is the $1 million dollar question

yes, it is (one of them)

> Since most of my symptoms happen from 0.5 to 3 hours after eating, I guess the

other way to test whether it is a herx or not is to not take the herbs and see

if I get the same symptoms though I am uncomfortable with this.

If there really is a strong correlation with eating it might be a diet problem

yes. Why not check what happens with a few days on a non-carb etc. diet, but

while keeping the Buhner herbs? Btw, I don't think there is any serious downside

to leaving out the herbs for a few days, especially not if you are just starting

with the protocol.

If the 'herxes' occur a few hours after eating (irrespective of your use of the

herbs) that suggests a diet problem. However, your diverse problems sounds more

like 'herxing' to me. Also, the carbs from wild rice and lentils are not that

bad IMHO ...

> I really hope that the Buhner protocol can work for me because I am

uncomfortable taking ABX due to so many side effects. Perhaps my modified diet

can pull the corner for me.

I didn't have any clear 'herxes' from the Buhner herbs, but I already had a year

of awful herxes on antibiotics before that (and yes, I stopped the AB due to

severe side effects). Assuming the AB killed most of the bugs it is to be

expected that after some time the herxes become milder. Also, the Buhner herbs

don't 'kill' directly, they mostly protect the body.

Using both Buhner herbs and diet changes seems a good idea

[Guest guest]

THanks so much Knot_weed for your response. Your input and perspective was

refreshing to me and it is good to hear from people who have similar stories to

tell.

I guess I still have bartonella symptoms - mainly eye and sinus headaches even

though I have cut out most of the rice/lentils for 3 days now and ate mainly

greens. I am considering going back on ABX if things get worse but I want to

give this Buhner protocol a real shot because I like the philosophy around it.

It is curious to note that you didn't have any herx symptoms and that makes me

think that maybe the herbs aren't working the way they should for me.

I am just curious if anyone with Bartonella has worked through the protocol and

experienced any of these symtoms (pain/soreness behind eyes, testicular itching,

itchy skin,fatigue, eye floaters, arthritis, shooting pains) and how long did it

last for?

I had similar symptoms when I was on Cipro except that the testicular itching

was extreme testicular pain lasting around 2 weeks as well as pain behind my

eyes and the shooting pains like mild bee stings. I know that Bartonella

affected my sinuses before to the point where I would stand on my head in a yoga

pose to get more blood to the brain. Right now, it is so hard to tell what is

going on?

>

>

> > I know that this is the $1 million dollar question

>

> yes, it is (one of them)

>

> > Since most of my symptoms happen from 0.5 to 3 hours after eating, I guess

the other way to test whether it is a herx or not is to not take the herbs and

see if I get the same symptoms though I am uncomfortable with this.

>

> If there really is a strong correlation with eating it might be a diet problem

yes. Why not check what happens with a few days on a non-carb etc. diet, but

while keeping the Buhner herbs? Btw, I don't think there is any serious downside

to leaving out the herbs for a few days, especially not if you are just starting

with the protocol.

>

> If the 'herxes' occur a few hours after eating (irrespective of your use of

the herbs) that suggests a diet problem. However, your diverse problems sounds

more like 'herxing' to me. Also, the carbs from wild rice and lentils are not

that bad IMHO ...

>

> > I really hope that the Buhner protocol can work for me because I am

uncomfortable taking ABX due to so many side effects. Perhaps my modified diet

can pull the corner for me.

>

> I didn't have any clear 'herxes' from the Buhner herbs, but I already had a

year of awful herxes on antibiotics before that (and yes, I stopped the AB due

to severe side effects). Assuming the AB killed most of the bugs it is to be

expected that after some time the herxes become milder. Also, the Buhner herbs

don't 'kill' directly, they mostly protect the body.

>

> Using both Buhner herbs and diet changes seems a good idea

>

[Guest guest]

>It is curious to note that you didn't have any herx symptoms and that makes me

think that maybe the herbs aren't working the way they should for me.

as mentioned, it might be because I already had severe herxes during my 1 year

of ABX (before starting Buhner). Assuming that the herx is caused by release of

toxic substances from dead bacteria, or the reaction of our immune system etc.

to this, that would make some sense as the ABX could have reduced the bacterial

load.

> I am just curious if anyone with Bartonella has worked through the protocol

and experienced any of these symtoms (pain/soreness behind eyes, testicular

itching, itchy skin,fatigue, eye floaters, arthritis, shooting pains) and how

long did it last for?

I had all of these (plus a lot of other ones) during most of the AB use. Some of

them have cleared up after using Buhner herbs for a year, some like floaters,

eye problems and skin problems are still present. My fatigue seems worse now

than before / during the ABX. I think most of it can be caused by Bb, I don't

think I have Bartonella (but not sure).

> Right now, it is so hard to tell what is going on?

yes, hard to tell. I get the impression that the type of pain / symptoms also

depends on the type of ABX you are using. I got different problems when

switching to different AB protocol and have heard the same from others. And of

course some symptoms change over time (also when NOT treating the disease) which

make it very hard to tell what is cause and effect.

[Guest guest]

I was hoping you all could address this issue again. Seems like my systems are

still cyclical - a couple of weeks of feeling not so bad; then the crash of the

next weeks of feeling exhausted - this time with a headached that started last

Wednesday morning - so a week on and off.

Had a bad root canal - pulled; bad amalgams - replaced; been doing CEs and

taking 1 tsp of glutathione every morning; epsom salt baths; sigh.

Making fresh juice, taking handfuls of supplements, blah, blah, blah - any

suggestions? It's getting to be a bit too much today.

W

> >It is curious to note that you didn't have any herx symptoms and that makes

me think that maybe the herbs aren't working the way they should for me.

>

> as mentioned, it might be because I already had severe herxes during my 1 year

of ABX (before starting Buhner). Assuming that the herx is caused by release of

toxic substances from dead bacteria, or the reaction of our immune system etc.

to this, that would make some sense as the ABX could have reduced the bacterial

load.

>

> > I am just curious if anyone with Bartonella has worked through the protocol

and experienced any of these symtoms (pain/soreness behind eyes, testicular

itching, itchy skin,fatigue, eye floaters, arthritis, shooting pains) and how

long did it last for?

>

> I had all of these (plus a lot of other ones) during most of the AB use. Some

of them have cleared up after using Buhner herbs for a year, some like floaters,

eye problems and skin problems are still present. My fatigue seems worse now

than before / during the ABX. I think most of it can be caused by Bb, I don't

think I have Bartonella (but not sure).

>

> > Right now, it is so hard to tell what is going on?

>

> yes, hard to tell. I get the impression that the type of pain / symptoms also

depends on the type of ABX you are using. I got different problems when

switching to different AB protocol and have heard the same from others. And of

course some symptoms change over time (also when NOT treating the disease) which

make it very hard to tell what is cause and effect.

>

[Guest guest]

,

Have you been tested for heavy metals? The removal of the root canal and

amalgams can help, but it can also hurt by releasing metals into the body to be

redistributed throughout. (Hope you found a dentist who knew this and did it

properly.) Heavy metals chelation has its fans and its foes. I personally take

chlorella and other binders (diatomaceous earth, clay, apple pectin, charcoal,

etc.) at night before bed since they can absorb your supplements if taken too

closely together - I think the rule is to wait 2 hours between. Note: Some

people do not tolerate chlorella well.

deb

> > >It is curious to note that you didn't have any herx symptoms and that makes

me think that maybe the herbs aren't working the way they should for me.

> >

> > as mentioned, it might be because I already had severe herxes during my 1

year of ABX (before starting Buhner). Assuming that the herx is caused by

release of toxic substances from dead bacteria, or the reaction of our immune

system etc. to this, that would make some sense as the ABX could have reduced

the bacterial load.

> >

> > > I am just curious if anyone with Bartonella has worked through the

protocol and experienced any of these symtoms (pain/soreness behind eyes,

testicular itching, itchy skin,fatigue, eye floaters, arthritis, shooting pains)

and how long did it last for?

> >

> > I had all of these (plus a lot of other ones) during most of the AB use.

Some of them have cleared up after using Buhner herbs for a year, some like

floaters, eye problems and skin problems are still present. My fatigue seems

worse now than before / during the ABX. I think most of it can be caused by Bb,

I don't think I have Bartonella (but not sure).

> >

> > > Right now, it is so hard to tell what is going on?

> >

> > yes, hard to tell. I get the impression that the type of pain / symptoms

also depends on the type of ABX you are using. I got different problems when

switching to different AB protocol and have heard the same from others. And of

course some symptoms change over time (also when NOT treating the disease) which

make it very hard to tell what is cause and effect.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Deb, Yes, the doc knew what he was doing (mask and chorella with heavy

glutathione) Was tested for ?? which came up high in paraben type problems -

candles and make-up mostly - can't tell you how many hand creams I gave

away. Good ones too!

Can a tooth pulled release toxins? I took a tsp of glut a day, sometimes

twice, and even wore a patch for awhile. Do you have heavy metal problem? Is

that why you take all that at night? Do you remember what test it was?

Thanks for responding,

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Deb57

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 6:08 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Herx or getting worse

,

Have you been tested for heavy metals? The removal of the root canal and

amalgams can help, but it can also hurt by releasing metals into the body to

be redistributed throughout. (Hope you found a dentist who knew this and did

it properly.) Heavy metals chelation has its fans and its foes. I personally

take chlorella and other binders (diatomaceous earth, clay, apple pectin,

charcoal, etc.) at night before bed since they can absorb your supplements

if taken too closely together - I think the rule is to wait 2 hours between.

Note: Some people do not tolerate chlorella well.

deb

[Guest guest]

,

It's possible the tooth could release toxins. Why was it pulled?

I had a provoked heavy metals urine test last fall, ordered by my LLMD. This

required swallowing chelators to measure the metals pulled from the tissues. My

mercury was off the chart. I do eat a lot of fish so that's probably where the

extra came from but my body was not getting rid of it (bugs holding onto it?).

Anyway, the LLMD said he wanted me to do chelation therapy at some point

although I am not rushing into it because it has its risks. Cilantro is

supposed to help pull metals from tissues but it does not bind them tightly so

you need chlorella as the binder. Other binders such as those I mentioned

previously help bind other toxins.

deb

>

> Deb, Yes, the doc knew what he was doing (mask and chorella with heavy

> glutathione) Was tested for ?? which came up high in paraben type problems -

> candles and make-up mostly - can't tell you how many hand creams I gave

> away. Good ones too!

>

> Can a tooth pulled release toxins? I took a tsp of glut a day, sometimes

> twice, and even wore a patch for awhile. Do you have heavy metal problem? Is

> that why you take all that at night? Do you remember what test it was?

>

> Thanks for responding,

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Deb57

> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 6:08 AM

>

> Subject: [ ] Re: Herx or getting worse

>

>

>

>

> ,

>

> Have you been tested for heavy metals? The removal of the root canal and

> amalgams can help, but it can also hurt by releasing metals into the body to

> be redistributed throughout. (Hope you found a dentist who knew this and did

> it properly.) Heavy metals chelation has its fans and its foes. I personally

> take chlorella and other binders (diatomaceous earth, clay, apple pectin,

> charcoal, etc.) at night before bed since they can absorb your supplements

> if taken too closely together - I think the rule is to wait 2 hours between.

> Note: Some people do not tolerate chlorella well.

>

> deb

>

>

>

>

>