Re: Herbs that contain all of Buhners Protocol in One pill

[Guest guest]

>

> I just spoke with Tim from Green Dragon Botanicals. He said he has been

working with B and developed a pill that contains the following herbs;

500mg of Jap Knotweed ( the root ), 500mg of Cats Claw, 430mg of Andrograph,

150mg or Sarasparilla(sp?) and 150mg of Dandelion. You need to take 3 pills a

day to get the total amount, working up to 12 pills a day The cost is $55 for

a bottle of 300 plus pills. Im wondering if anyone out there has tried his

protocol?

I was discussed just a week ago or so. The info suggests that the pills are

nearly 2 grams each, that is huge!! My guess is that it is about as effective as

separate pills, and certainly more convenient - but at a cost. It is 5-10x more

expensive than using bulk herbs that you encapsulated yourself. Compared to the

standard ready-made pills is seems an attractive option.

[Guest guest]

I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year ago. I

am planning to come off them

in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my dosage. I

am completely satisfied with the results.

I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

everyone!

On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you actually

> feel

> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

> like to

> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while taking

> this

> supplement.

>

> Anita Pelligra

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow , that is so wonderful. I don't think I've heard of anyone who has

felt 100% better after battling chronic lyme. How long did you have it? Was

the Buhner protocol the only treatment you followed?

Thanks,

Judy

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Manno wrote:

> I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year ago. I

> am planning to come off them

> in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my dosage. I

> am completely satisfied with the results.

> I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

> everyone!

>

> On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

>

>> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you actually

>> feel

>> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

>> like to

>> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while taking

>> this

>> supplement.

>>

>> Anita Pelligra

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I had it for 3 years. I tried antibiotics 2 x without success. I am

on doxycycline for the last 2 months of my Buhner protocol, but I

started feeling better after 6 months on the Buhner protocol. I did

not have neurological Lyme, however, so it varies from case to case.

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Judy Blake wrote:

> Wow , that is so wonderful. I don't think I've heard of

> anyone who has felt 100% better after battling chronic lyme. How

> long did you have it? Was the Buhner protocol the only treatment

> you followed?

>

> Thanks,

> Judy

>

> On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Manno wrote:

>

> > I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year ago. I

> > am planning to come off them

> > in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my dosage. I

> > am completely satisfied with the results.

> > I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

> > everyone!

> >

> > On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

> >

> >> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you actually

> >> feel

> >> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

> >> like to

> >> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while taking

> >> this

> >> supplement.

> >>

> >> Anita Pelligra

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

I don't have neurological lyme either. I have a range of constantly shifting

symptoms but the one that has been constant and severe is fatigue (I spent most

of 3 years in bed and am still quite limited). I've heard that fatigue is the

last to go. Did you have that? It took 2 years to diagnose the lyme, then I

took just cat's claw which helped at first but then I slid all the way back

after a few months so I went on antibiotics for 2.5 years. Now I am rifing and

starting the Buhner protocol. I am hopeful but this is such a hard road to

travel as everyone on this site knows.

judy

On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Manno wrote:

> I had it for 3 years. I tried antibiotics 2 x without success. I am

> on doxycycline for the last 2 months of my Buhner protocol, but I

> started feeling better after 6 months on the Buhner protocol. I did

> not have neurological Lyme, however, so it varies from case to case.

>

>

> On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Judy Blake wrote:

>

>> Wow , that is so wonderful. I don't think I've heard of

>> anyone who has felt 100% better after battling chronic lyme. How

>> long did you have it? Was the Buhner protocol the only treatment

>> you followed?

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Judy

>>

>> On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Manno wrote:

>>

>>> I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year ago. I

>>> am planning to come off them

>>> in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my dosage. I

>>> am completely satisfied with the results.

>>> I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

>>> everyone!

>>>

>>> On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

>>>

>>>> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you actually

>>>> feel

>>>> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

>>>> like to

>>>> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while taking

>>>> this

>>>> supplement.

>>>>

>>>> Anita Pelligra

>>>>

>>>>

[Guest guest]

Judy,

There are plenty of folks who have done Buhner for months with no results at

all....The ALS type of Lyme is tricky..........

Re: [ ] Herbs that contain all of Buhners Protocol in One

pill

Wow , that is so wonderful. I don't think I've heard of anyone who has

felt 100% better after battling chronic lyme. How long did you have it? Was the

Buhner protocol the only treatment you followed?

Thanks,

Judy

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Manno wrote:

> I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year ago. I

> am planning to come off them

> in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my dosage. I

> am completely satisfied with the results.

> I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

> everyone!

>

> On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

>

>> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you actually

>> feel

>> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

>> like to

>> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while taking

>> this

>> supplement.

>>

>> Anita Pelligra

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

>

> Judy,

>

> There are plenty of folks who have done Buhner for months with no results at

all....

agree, but I think this is similar to results with antibiotics treatment. And

judging from the latest research (e.g. from the group of Ben Luft) it is more or

less what one would expect. First of all, everyone is different, e.g. many

Lymies probably have compromised immune systems and other problems. But the

Borrelia's are 'different' too.

Apparently the course and severity of Lyme disease depends on the Borrelia

strain that you get infected with, and the presence of multiple strains or

coinfections. Most of the Bb strains don't cause fullblown disseminated Lyme

disease, they are self-limiting: maybe they cause an EM (sme do, some don't),

but after that the problems with disappear whatever the treatment.

Just a small subgroup (which you can't identify with current serologic testing,

but possibly with advanced PCR technology) cause severe disease, and maybe those

are impossible to eradicate - for our immune system, and maybe also using

antibiotics or herbs. Maybe it is not just the Bb strain, but the combination of

the genetic makeup of the Bb and your own body (the match in genetic markers is

important for immune evasion etc.).

This issue makes statistical research on large groups of Lyme patients useless,

and it is totally ignored by the IDSA papers and guidelines. I think this is why

there is no solid proof that antibiotics work: for most of the early Lyme cases,

the disease will stop whatever the treatment (so ABX have no value, you might as

well take a daily glass of orange juice). For a small percentage the disease

will progress, and probably just a percentage of those will respond strongly to

antibiotics or herbs.

this is even more of an issue with treatments that take several years, because

there is no way to judge what caused improvement (if there is any). Most

diseases will gradually change over the years, whatever you do.

Some ABX (e.g. doxy) have an obvious but temporary effect on the patient by

suppressing symptoms (e.g. because most ABX have anti-inflammatory properties,

or alter brain chemistry), but they don't eradicate the Borrelia. The same may

apply to herbs: they change the environment in the body to make it less

hospitable to Bb, but if you have an aggressive strain that has already

established itself in the tissues/cells that probably is not sufficient to get

rid of it.

With the current lack of knowledge (or suppression of knowledge ...) there is no

other option than trying several approaches and hope that one of them will work.

I think that in this sad situation, it makes sense to concentrate on limiting

the damage of the disease and helping the body heal, as Buhner tries with his

protocol; even if you can't eradicate the bugs.

[Guest guest]

Coiling seems to make scientific sense........

[ ] Re: Herbs that contain all of Buhners Protocol in One

pill

>

> Judy,

>

> There are plenty of folks who have done Buhner for months with no results at

all....

agree, but I think this is similar to results with antibiotics treatment. And

judging from the latest research (e.g. from the group of Ben Luft) it is more or

less what one would expect. First of all, everyone is different, e.g. many

Lymies probably have compromised immune systems and other problems. But the

Borrelia's are 'different' too.

Apparently the course and severity of Lyme disease depends on the Borrelia

strain that you get infected with, and the presence of multiple strains or

coinfections. Most of the Bb strains don't cause fullblown disseminated Lyme

disease, they are self-limiting: maybe they cause an EM (sme do, some don't),

but after that the problems with disappear whatever the treatment.

Just a small subgroup (which you can't identify with current serologic testing,

but possibly with advanced PCR technology) cause severe disease, and maybe those

are impossible to eradicate - for our immune system, and maybe also using

antibiotics or herbs. Maybe it is not just the Bb strain, but the combination of

the genetic makeup of the Bb and your own body (the match in genetic markers is

important for immune evasion etc.).

This issue makes statistical research on large groups of Lyme patients useless,

and it is totally ignored by the IDSA papers and guidelines. I think this is why

there is no solid proof that antibiotics work: for most of the early Lyme cases,

the disease will stop whatever the treatment (so ABX have no value, you might as

well take a daily glass of orange juice). For a small percentage the disease

will progress, and probably just a percentage of those will respond strongly to

antibiotics or herbs.

this is even more of an issue with treatments that take several years, because

there is no way to judge what caused improvement (if there is any). Most

diseases will gradually change over the years, whatever you do.

Some ABX (e.g. doxy) have an obvious but temporary effect on the patient by

suppressing symptoms (e.g. because most ABX have anti-inflammatory properties,

or alter brain chemistry), but they don't eradicate the Borrelia. The same may

apply to herbs: they change the environment in the body to make it less

hospitable to Bb, but if you have an aggressive strain that has already

established itself in the tissues/cells that probably is not sufficient to get

rid of it.

With the current lack of knowledge (or suppression of knowledge ...) there is no

other option than trying several approaches and hope that one of them will work.

I think that in this sad situation, it makes sense to concentrate on limiting

the damage of the disease and helping the body heal, as Buhner tries with his

protocol; even if you can't eradicate the bugs.

[Guest guest]

Knotweed,

Have you heard of any benefits from glyconutrients like Ambrotose? USANA

vitamins/supplements, Dr. 's Collagen?

Jay

[ ] Re: Herbs that contain all of Buhners Protocol in One

pill

>

> I just spoke with Tim from Green Dragon Botanicals. He said he has been

working with B and developed a pill that contains the following herbs;

500mg of Jap Knotweed ( the root ), 500mg of Cats Claw, 430mg of Andrograph,

150mg or Sarasparilla(sp?) and 150mg of Dandelion. You need to take 3 pills a

day to get the total amount, working up to 12 pills a day The cost is $55 for a

bottle of 300 plus pills. Im wondering if anyone out there has tried his

protocol?

I was discussed just a week ago or so. The info suggests that the pills are

nearly 2 grams each, that is huge!! My guess is that it is about as effective as

separate pills, and certainly more convenient - but at a cost. It is 5-10x more

expensive than using bulk herbs that you encapsulated yourself. Compared to the

standard ready-made pills is seems an attractive option.

[Guest guest]

Yes, fatigue was the last to go. I am having to rehabilitate myself

with constant and increased exercise which at first feels like hell,

but then has improved. I was lucky to find out about the Buhner

protocol immediately after I tested positive for Lyme (I went for a

year undiagnosed, having tested negative the first time and despite

having taken antibiotics at the first suspicion of Lyme and then

again when I tested positive -- both doses failed). Just stay with

it. I was going to go off them after 8 months but I wasn't symptom

free so kept going for a whole year. Thanks, ANgela

On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Judy Blake wrote:

> I don't have neurological lyme either. I have a range of constantly

> shifting symptoms but the one that has been constant and severe is

> fatigue (I spent most of 3 years in bed and am still quite

> limited). I've heard that fatigue is the last to go. Did you have

> that? It took 2 years to diagnose the lyme, then I took just cat's

> claw which helped at first but then I slid all the way back after a

> few months so I went on antibiotics for 2.5 years. Now I am rifing

> and starting the Buhner protocol. I am hopeful but this is such a

> hard road to travel as everyone on this site knows.

> judy

>

> On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Manno wrote:

>

> > I had it for 3 years. I tried antibiotics 2 x without success. I am

> > on doxycycline for the last 2 months of my Buhner protocol, but I

> > started feeling better after 6 months on the Buhner protocol. I did

> > not have neurological Lyme, however, so it varies from case to case.

> >

> >

> > On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Judy Blake wrote:

> >

> >> Wow , that is so wonderful. I don't think I've heard of

> >> anyone who has felt 100% better after battling chronic lyme. How

> >> long did you have it? Was the Buhner protocol the only treatment

> >> you followed?

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Judy

> >>

> >> On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Manno wrote:

> >>

> >>> I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year

> ago. I

> >>> am planning to come off them

> >>> in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my

> dosage. I

> >>> am completely satisfied with the results.

> >>> I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

> >>> everyone!

> >>>

> >>> On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you

> actually

> >>>> feel

> >>>> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

> >>>> like to

> >>>> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while

> taking

> >>>> this

> >>>> supplement.

> >>>>

> >>>> Anita Pelligra

> >>>>

> >>>>

[Guest guest]

>

> Knotweed,

>

> Have you heard of any benefits from glyconutrients like Ambrotose? USANA

vitamins/supplements, Dr. 's Collagen?

no, but I don't believe in supporting connective tissue / collagen by eating

collagen or similar stuff. It just doesn't work that way (same goes for almost

all of the cosmetic products with such claims).

I think vitamins in general may help if something is really wrong, like people

with some kind of absorption disease. But usually the body should be able to

handle things even if you have a pretty bad diet. People in third world

countries survive for years on dirty water and some rice; if you believe the

vitamin producers they should have been dead within days...

[Guest guest]

My daughter also took 2 years to diagnose and has neuro lyme and also had a

lost of other symptoms including pain and fatigue. She started the Buhner

protocol (although not the one pill version) in mid-March and is doing much

better, with some days better than others, but far better, independent and

happy that she was!. She is also taking supplements for liver, adrenals and

thyroid support in addition to enzymes and probiotics. Detoxing, including

10 glasses of good water with trace minerals a day and epsom bath salts, is

a must for her to tolerate the protocol. She eliminated refined sugar from

her diet, including and is basically on a plant-based diet, using more and

more a raw diet (juicing and blending fruits, veggies and legumes). It is

amazing the difference that the diet is making on her progress, and more and

more she craves for raw veggies and nuts. Changing the diet It is a tough

choice, but it is worth it to rebuilt a strong immunological system critical

to take care of the remaining bacterial load and healing. I find the book "

Insights into Lyme Disease Treatments " by connie Strasheim very useful and

informative (includes views of 13 LLMDs, some of them using abx some not,

with several references to the herbs used in the Buhner protocol, and even

those using mostly abx most stress the importance of detoxing with herbal

treatments and dieting).

Sending positive healing energies to all. Dida

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Judy Blake <judyb77@...> wrote:

>

>

> I don't have neurological lyme either. I have a range of constantly

> shifting symptoms but the one that has been constant and severe is fatigue

> (I spent most of 3 years in bed and am still quite limited). I've heard that

> fatigue is the last to go. Did you have that? It took 2 years to diagnose

> the lyme, then I took just cat's claw which helped at first but then I slid

> all the way back after a few months so I went on antibiotics for 2.5 years.

> Now I am rifing and starting the Buhner protocol. I am hopeful but this is

> such a hard road to travel as everyone on this site knows.

> judy

>

>

> On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Manno wrote:

>

> > I had it for 3 years. I tried antibiotics 2 x without success. I am

> > on doxycycline for the last 2 months of my Buhner protocol, but I

> > started feeling better after 6 months on the Buhner protocol. I did

> > not have neurological Lyme, however, so it varies from case to case.

> >

> >

> > On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Judy Blake wrote:

> >

> >> Wow , that is so wonderful. I don't think I've heard of

> >> anyone who has felt 100% better after battling chronic lyme. How

> >> long did you have it? Was the Buhner protocol the only treatment

> >> you followed?

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Judy

> >>

> >> On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Manno wrote:

> >>

> >>> I am feeling 100% better since the day I started them 1 year ago. I

> >>> am planning to come off them

> >>> in the next week or so and have been slowly decreasing my dosage. I

> >>> am completely satisfied with the results.

> >>> I was getting the pills from Tim in Vermont. Good luck to

> >>> everyone!

> >>>

> >>> On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Anita Pelligra wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Can you tell me if you symptoms have diminished and if you actually

> >>>> feel

> >>>> better on it rather than just being able to tolerate it? I would

> >>>> like to

> >>>> hear that someone has had some significant improvement while taking

> >>>> this

> >>>> supplement.

> >>>>

> >>>> Anita Pelligra

> >>>>

> >>>>