Guest guest Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Knotweed...You are a VERY cynical guy....not a good technique for healing!! EVERYBODY in community knows about Doug MacLean & what he accomplished as THE pioneer & he has been symptom free for 20 years!! That my dear sir is science! J [ ] Re: coiling > > Read about Doug MacLean............He is pioneer & had made amazing recovery with hundres of others...Plenty of science as he took no meds.... This is not science at all; I think that is one of the problems with all the discussions about IDSA, ILADS etc on internet. Most people have no idea what science is and the craziest ideas are thrown around as 'hard science', e.g. because it was published in the Townsend Newsletter. Many people claim on the forums that they were 'cured' with some strange therapy while there was no proof at all that they had Lyme (Borrelia infection) in the first place. Science means fully documented, independently verified, peer-reviewed research that others can duplicate. It means using a control group etc. Not some personal experience that something 'works'. I'm sure many people will recover from 'Lyme' on a daily dose of orange juice; it doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 As I understand it, the FDA pretty much has to approve medical studies before they can be done in the US. Fat chance that will happen any time soon with coiling or any of the other alternative therapies. If someone did stick out their neck to do it scientifically, it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. And you would have to find a population of people to test who all had the same thing. From whe I've read, there are no two people with lyme who have exactly the same infections/coinfections/etc. That all seems to make it pretty impossible to get scientifically validated data. Manufacturers of machines can make no claims about how well they are working or even what they are for without crossing a very fine line with the FDA, so it is a necessity that all results are anecdotal. I wish it could be some other way and we could get valid scientific data, but don't see it happening any time soon. Carol    ________________________________ From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...> Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 2:01:45 PM Subject: [ ] Re: coiling  > > Read about Doug MacLean............He is pioneer & had made amazing recovery with hundres of others...Plenty of science as he took no meds.... This is not science at all; I think that is one of the problems with all the discussions about IDSA, ILADS etc on internet. Most people have no idea what science is and the craziest ideas are thrown around as 'hard science', e.g. because it was published in the Townsend Newsletter. Many people claim on the forums that they were 'cured' with some strange therapy while there was no proof at all that they had Lyme (Borrelia infection) in the first place. Science means fully documented, independently verified, peer-reviewed research that others can duplicate. It means using a control group etc. Not some personal experience that something 'works'. I'm sure many people will recover from 'Lyme' on a daily dose of orange juice; it doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Not only that, but I wonder where we would be if all the knowledge and discovery of the last century or so were held to the same standard? I agree with Knotweed that it would be great if all theories and protocols could be run through the same gauntlet. But then I think about all the " old wives tales " and all the other anecdotes that have withstood the test of time. How about all that knowledge?It's a slippery slope, and especially now, with all the pharmaceutical stakeholders, the insurance companies, etc. We are at the mercy of the almighty dollar without grassroots support.The best answer is, if you are in a financial position to try some of these untested systems and protocols without harming yourself, go for it. From: Carol <aftonlight@...> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: coiling Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 3:18 PM  As I understand it, the FDA pretty much has to approve medical studies before they can be done in the US. Fat chance that will happen any time soon with coiling or any of the other alternative therapies. If someone did stick out their neck to do it scientifically, it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. And you would have to find a population of people to test who all had the same thing. From whe I've read, there are no two people with lyme who have exactly the same infections/coinfections/etc. That all seems to make it pretty impossible to get scientifically validated data. Manufacturers of machines can make no claims about how well they are working or even what they are for without crossing a very fine line with the FDA, so it is a necessity that all results are anecdotal. I wish it could be some other way and we could get valid scientific data, but don't see it happening any time soon. Carol    ________________________________ From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...> Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 2:01:45 PM Subject: [ ] Re: coiling  > > Read about Doug MacLean............He is pioneer & had made amazing recovery with hundres of others...Plenty of science as he took no meds.... This is not science at all; I think that is one of the problems with all the discussions about IDSA, ILADS etc on internet. Most people have no idea what science is and the craziest ideas are thrown around as 'hard science', e.g. because it was published in the Townsend Newsletter. Many people claim on the forums that they were 'cured' with some strange therapy while there was no proof at all that they had Lyme (Borrelia infection) in the first place. Science means fully documented, independently verified, peer-reviewed research that others can duplicate. It means using a control group etc. Not some personal experience that something 'works'. I'm sure many people will recover from 'Lyme' on a daily dose of orange juice; it doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 Understood......... Maybe something will happen as a result of grants with top LLMD's. Jay [ ] Re: coiling > > As I understand it, the FDA pretty much has to approve medical studies before they can be done in the US. Fat chance that will happen any time soon with coiling or any of the other alternative therapies. If someone did stick out their neck to do it scientifically, it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. And you would have to find a population of people to test who all had the same thing. From whe I've read, there are no two people with lyme who have exactly the same infections/coinfections/etc. That all seems to make it pretty impossible to get scientifically validated data. Manufacturers of machines can make no claims about how well they are working or even what they are for without crossing a very fine line with the FDA, so it is a necessity that all results are anecdotal. I wish it could be some other way and we could get valid scientific data, but don't see it happening any time soon. good points, but this applies to almost every 'alternative' or new therapy for Lyme and most similar (auto-immune like) diseases. Outside the US, research restrictions are often less severe. Some alternative therapies do have solid scientific backing, e.g. for most Buhner herbs there is many years of literature about using these herbs for similar diseases (e.g. ayurvedic medicine), and a possible biochemical mechanism of action is available. Even though these herbs cannot be patented, you can find over a thousand articles on PubMed about health effects or biochemical actions of the basic Buhner herbs. All of that is missing with coiling IMHO. This doesn't mean the Buhner protocol is 'proven', as other issues that you mentioned remain (mostly statistical problems in evaluating different patients). What surprises me about coiling is that it seems quite specific to the US. In Europe we have 'bioresonance' which is performed by an alternative practitioner and seems a bit related. And sometimes someone mentioned the Hulda zapper, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 Knotweed, I'm sure you are correct re: $$'s......... Dr. Rife was the toast of the Manhattan MD establishment until penicillin, FDA etc...and then Doug rediscovered in late 80's after 2 years of IV ABX's...... I do listen to him as he has NEVER tried to capitalize monetarily on his success..... In my own experience, my condition in terms of muscles,fatigue has not improved at all...but my digestion has improved dramatically...I, after 3 huge surgeries in 70's for Crohns (???) have made huge strides...can tolerate 8 ounces of Colloidal Silver om empty stomach which is astonishing... So machines have done something. Jay [ ] Re: coiling > > Understood......... > Maybe something will happen as a result of grants with top LLMD's. yes, I would like to see some investigations as well. I don't believe coiling can selectively kill Borrelia, but maybe it does something that helps the body to get stronger, improve immune reaction, help detox or something like that. Another thing that could help is the recent surge in 'open source' scientific publishing. Such articles are peer-reviewed, but no longer published in controlled publications that are often dominated by Big Pharma (like the NEJM where all papers are censored by Klempner and his friends). This gives more room for new, fresh research. I don't think it is really about money. There is sometimes very good research from scientists in foreign countries who work with very little budgets, and who pay more attention to patients than to multimillion dollar diagnostics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 On that note, I will be going to Las Vegas June 23, 24, 25th the try out the MedSonix that was suggested a few weeks ago on this forum. It had already been suggested personally by two other people in the past but I stored it away as a " when I have the money " . Well it's worked out I am able to go & I will get 3-4 treatments. I'll post here about my experience either from Vegas or when I return. My currents symptoms are: Hangover feeling (malaise) Weak muscles (sore off & on) Joints increasingly stiff & painful Stiff neck which leads to constant headaches Fatigue I am on Bicillin IM injections, Biaxin, Lauricidin, & supportive supplements. Not on Buhner Protocol. -Sonya Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed [ ] Re: coiling  > > Read about Doug MacLean............He is pioneer & had made amazing recovery with hundres of others...Plenty of science as he took no meds.... This is not science at all; I think that is one of the problems with all the discussions about IDSA, ILADS etc on internet. Most people have no idea what science is and the craziest ideas are thrown around as 'hard science', e.g. because it was published in the Townsend Newsletter. Many people claim on the forums that they were 'cured' with some strange therapy while there was no proof at all that they had Lyme (Borrelia infection) in the first place. Science means fully documented, independently verified, peer-reviewed research that others can duplicate. It means using a control group etc. Not some personal experience that something 'works'. I'm sure many people will recover from 'Lyme' on a daily dose of orange juice; it doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 That being said....when the former President of ILADS has a grant to officially study...that is clearly progress....... [ ] Re: coiling > > Read about Doug MacLean............He is pioneer & had made amazing recovery with hundres of others...Plenty of science as he took no meds.... This is not science at all; I think that is one of the problems with all the discussions about IDSA, ILADS etc on internet. Most people have no idea what science is and the craziest ideas are thrown around as 'hard science', e.g. because it was published in the Townsend Newsletter. Many people claim on the forums that they were 'cured' with some strange therapy while there was no proof at all that they had Lyme (Borrelia infection) in the first place. Science means fully documented, independently verified, peer-reviewed research that others can duplicate. It means using a control group etc. Not some personal experience that something 'works'. I'm sure many people will recover from 'Lyme' on a daily dose of orange juice; it doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 Looking forward to hearing about your experience! From: Sonya Putnam <sonyafly@...> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: coiling Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 11:12 AM  On that note, I will be going to Las Vegas June 23, 24, 25th the try out the MedSonix that was suggested a few weeks ago on this forum.  As I understand it, the FDA pretty much has to approve medical studies before they can be done in the US. Fat chance that will happen any time soon with coiling or any of the other alternative therapies. If someone did stick out their neck to do it scientifically, it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. And you would have to find a population of people to test who all had the same thing. From whe I've read, there are no two people with lyme who have exactly the same infections/coinfections/etc. That all seems to make it pretty impossible to get scientifically validated data. Manufacturers of machines can make no claims about how well they are working or even what they are for without crossing a very fine line with the FDA, so it is a necessity that all results are anecdotal. I wish it could be some other way and we could get valid scientific data, but don't see it happening any time soon. Carol    ________________________________ From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...> Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 2:01:45 PM Subject: [ ] Re: coiling  > > Read about Doug MacLean............He is pioneer & had made amazing recovery with hundres of others...Plenty of science as he took no meds.... This is not science at all; I think that is one of the problems with all the discussions about IDSA, ILADS etc on internet. Most people have no idea what science is and the craziest ideas are thrown around as 'hard science', e.g. because it was published in the Townsend Newsletter. Many people claim on the forums that they were 'cured' with some strange therapy while there was no proof at all that they had Lyme (Borrelia infection) in the first place. Science means fully documented, independently verified, peer-reviewed research that others can duplicate. It means using a control group etc. Not some personal experience that something 'works'. I'm sure many people will recover from 'Lyme' on a daily dose of orange juice; it doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Knotweed....Maclean is solid........He has helped cure hundreds......Call him up for references.......If somebody is sick with Lyme (bloodwork), then coils & becomes functional....that is a documented recovery...Case Closed...... J [ ] Re: coiling > > Just because something isn't published in a scientific study, or just > because it isn't tested an exact way does not mean it isn't effective. I fully agree with that, and if you read the scientific papers you will see that 'science' is not convinced at all about a lot of these new drugs (e.g. for 'auto-immune' or cancer treatment). Some of the medical research is flawed exactly because there is no real independent peer review. But there is still a major difference with rifing and some other alternative therapies: usually (e.g. for antibiotics, or certain herbs) there is a proposed mechanism of action that can be tested. This takes time, and sometimes products are rushed to market under financial pressure. But ultimately science tends to clean up its act, and sometimes whole groups of drugs get out of favor because there is too little benefit, or too much side effects. That even applies to drugs that make the pharma companies billions of dollars. > You said: > > As I said, for every crazy therapy there are people who have recovered > > (and most of them problably didn't have Lyme to start with ...) > > so, do you think the crazy therapy helped them recover from another illness? sometimes maybe, e.g. with treatments like MMS or Salt/C I don't believe they can kill Borrelia in the tissues. But it can probably lower the amount of parasites in the gut (and sometimes, maybe in the blood), thus lowering the load on the immune system so people FEEL better. So yes, maybe it helps but, I don't think it 'cures'. People recover on crazy treatments because most people tend to recover from most illnesses (even severe ones), whatever the treatment, if you wait long enough. This is a fact that is often disregarded on the Lyme forums (and sometimes by the medical community as well). This is why we have double-blind placebo tests in medicine. Some people would call this 'cure by faith' (suggesting that any therapy is right as long as you fully believe it will work) but that is a complicated discussion. > > If I had waited for lots of good scientific studies before I did some of > the treatments that have helped me, I would be dead. Yes that is a problem - but as I said: you cannot try every treatment out there. I'm not saying science is the best way to choose the best treatments; that's just my personal opinion, based on historical success rate of scientific procedures. If anyone can give a solid explanation of how Rife cures Lyme disease (assuming Lyme = Borrelia infection, if you don't agree with that discussion is meaningless ...), I'm interested as a scientist and as a patient. But I have seen nothing that is even remotely convincing up to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Hi, I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the iGenix western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely made headway but the change was less and less, even though my antibiotics were changed every few months. I was also having a harder and harder time dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing because of the many people with lyme I know and know about who have gotten real results with it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, tested positive on a standard test, was put on antibiotics, then IV antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 years before turning to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 years on rife therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's claw (which I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I have definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is any real science involved or not. What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we all find our way! judy On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife have not tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not a native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if they can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an unequivocally positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with EM for early cases, depends a bit on the MD). > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have more incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at least in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users have no positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) have tried alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or some other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are not sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb (not Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, including one similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often travels together with Bb. > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are often also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA has not approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative therapy? > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all these devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use by allopathic docs though) ? > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency range and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How do they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? Why is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany (and maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have to listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or maybe it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was recorded from live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, working in a bunker deep underground in the Black Forest, where the most horrible Bb's are sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that ended up at Plum Island after WWII i guess). Sigh ... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Judy, BRAVO!! Jay Re: [ ] Re: coiling > Hi, > I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the iGenix > western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely made > headway but the change was less and less, even though my antibiotics were > changed every few months. I was also having a harder and harder time > dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing because of the many > people with lyme I know and know about who have gotten real results with > it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, tested positive on a standard > test, was put on antibiotics, then IV antibiotics and fought for her > health back for 16 years before turning to rife...she is now functioning > like normal after 1.5 years on rife therapy) I never had clear herx's on > antibiotics or cat's claw (which I took for over 6 months before turning > to abx), but boy do I have definite ones with the rifing. In between my > herx's I glimpse a few days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a > believer whether there is any real science involved or > not. > > What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all > just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we all > find our way! > > judy > > > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. >> >> no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. >> >> > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife have not >> > tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose >> > not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day >> > courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it >> > took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. >> >> I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not a >> native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if they >> can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an unequivocally >> positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with EM for early >> cases, depends a bit on the MD). >> >> Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have more >> incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at least >> in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users have no >> positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) have tried >> alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient >> results. >> >> >> > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or some >> > other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own >> > experience. >> >> I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are not >> sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb (not >> Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, including one >> similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often travels together >> with Bb. >> And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are >> often also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. >> >> >> > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA has >> > not approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they >> > are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by >> > recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. >> >> but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative >> therapy? >> And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all these >> devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use by >> allopathic docs though) ? >> >> > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency range >> > and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select >> > specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the >> > ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session >> > time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on >> > the dougplus group. >> >> one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How do >> they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? Why >> is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? >> >> It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany (and >> maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have to >> listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or maybe >> it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was recorded from >> live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, working in a bunker >> deep underground in the Black Forest, where the most horrible Bb's are >> sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that ended up at Plum Island >> after WWII i guess). Sigh ... >> >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Deb57, I have coil...which cannot scan etc.....What do u have? Jay [ ] Re: coiling Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife have not tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. I also know many people who tested positive and are using rife as a tool in their protocol. ly I have seen vast improvement in symptoms. I personally believe that my Lyme symptoms are much better but I also believe that the reduction in borrelia has allowed a co-infection, possibly bartonella, to take over and cause different symptoms. Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or some other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA has not approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. There is a relatively new FDA approved machine by a company called Medsonix that is selling sessions to treat people with Lyme and ailments with similar symptoms. I believe it actually uses low frequency sound waves. There's one in Florida and one in Vegas and a number of people are checking it out. I personally haven't since these are nowhere near me. The betterhealthguy (web site) has done a review of it - he didn't use it long enough to be able to notice much difference; however other people have been claiming some relief of symptoms. I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency range and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. deb > > > > For Lyme now, nobody's got the answer. They even don't know for sure why we are so sick. They don't know for sure the pathogen mechanism, some speaks about auto-immune disease, an other speak about neuro-toxins, some say that the Borrelia is not so aggressive. > > agree > > > So, the conclusion is that science will produce answers in decades, > > final answers will take a long time yes, but there are already some partial answers. Getting the answers starts with asking the right questions, that is where we are now. I don't think any of the 'alternative' therapies hold the answers either. > > > > Now, for coiling, it's just important that it is working, now I will let the science tells me why in few years, but I won't wait for the science to find an explanation. > > I understand people want the solution now; I'm with you there. But is it a fact that rife cures Lyme?? > > There were some detailed Lyme patient polls in my country last year that asked whether or not patients had confirmed LD (with blood test or EM), how long they were ill, what treatments they tried, if they felt the treatment offered any advantage for their condition etc. I have read about similar studies from other countries although I haven't seen the details from those. > > In my country, the people who use 'rifing' or bio-resonance are usually those who haven't had positive Bb blood tests (without a positive test, they will not receive ABX treatments so are probably more likely to visit alternative practitioners). So we often don't know if these people have Lyme. Most of the longterm Lymies here DO have positive Bb blood tests, usually of course after starting with several negative 's. > > On the forums some people are raving about bio-resonance etc., but in the poll there was hardly anyone who was positive about the outcome, many people reported trying it without any improvement. Just for the record, about 50% of those who used antibiotics reported no or very little improvement; that agrees with what I hear in personal contacts. > > In the few years that I checked the Dutch forums daily, I was always surprised with the few bio-resonance supporters who kept claiming they were fully cured, while regularly coming back to the forums and reporting all kinds of general problems (sometimes matching clinical Lyme diagnosis). I know bio-resonance is not rife (rife itself is very unusual here, so difficult to say anything about patient experiences), and of course Europe is not the US. I would like to see such patient reports from other countries. > > If rifing cures Lyme, why haven't the ILADS docs switched to rifing instead of ABX with all its side effects? Are they too much hooked on the antibiotics trade? At least most of them are pretty good at listening to the patient ... > > > > ps. Please find below some references. Some are very close to coiling, really. Amazing. > > I know about influence of electro magnetic fields on certain life processes, and I'm sure there are things science does not know about yet (e.g. the recent finds regarding entanglement in biological systems). > > But I don't see any direct relevance of this to rifing as a medical treatment. Especially not in the sense that I can't see how it could penetrate in the tissues and selectively kill bugs there. The fact that most of the manufacturers / users keep suggesting other frequencies, waveforms, procedures makes it also questionable, from a scientific point of view. > > Again, that doesn't mean that it can't work but I just don't see any compelling evidence that it does. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I'm with you Judy - thanks for chiming in. I use Cat's claw, wormwood and a coil - 432 and 395. Take glutathione and would stuff green M & Ms up my nose if I thought I would feel better. Last week had a rootcanaled tooth pulled, took amoxicillin and had the worse reaction to die-off. Like you said, we do what it takes to get our health back. Other than that reaction and the everlasting fatigue, I work 8 hrs/day, have a garden and a pretty decent life. It is possible if you're willing to endure the ups and downs of living with Lyme and Co. Today is a good day. Re: [ ] Re: coiling Hi, I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the iGenix western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely made headway but the change was less and less, even though my antibiotics were changed every few months. I was also having a harder and harder time dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing because of the many people with lyme I know and know about who have gotten real results with it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, tested positive on a standard test, was put on antibiotics, then IV antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 years before turning to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 years on rife therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's claw (which I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I have definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is any real science inv! olved or not. What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we all find our way! judy On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife have not tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not a native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if they can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an unequivocally positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with EM for early cases, depends a bit on the MD). > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have more incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at least in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users have no positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) have tried alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or some other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are not sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb (not Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, including one similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often travels together with Bb. > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are often also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA has not approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative therapy? > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all these devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use by allopathic docs though) ? > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency range and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How do they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? Why is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany (and maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have to listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or maybe it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was recorded from live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, working in a bunker deep underground in the Black Forest, where the most horrible Bb's are sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that ended up at Plum Island after WWII i guess). Sigh ... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 , I'm glad you are having a good day. We have to take note of every moment so we don't miss the good ones! Thanks for the m & m comment. I laughed out loud (always a gift) and I so agree with you! It's crazy but we are all our own guinea pigs on the quest for freedom from lyme. judy On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:43 PM, wrote: > I'm with you Judy - thanks for chiming in. I use Cat's claw, wormwood and a > coil - 432 and 395. Take glutathione and would stuff green M & Ms up my nose > if I thought I would feel better. > > Last week had a rootcanaled tooth pulled, took amoxicillin and had the worse > reaction to die-off. Like you said, we do what it takes to get our health > back. Other than that reaction and the everlasting fatigue, I work 8 > hrs/day, have a garden and a pretty decent life. It is possible if you're > willing to endure the ups and downs of living with Lyme and Co. Today is a > good day. > > > > Re: [ ] Re: coiling > > Hi, > I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the iGenix > western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely made headway > but the change was less and less, even though my antibiotics were changed > every few months. I was also having a harder and harder time dealing with > candida so I stopped and turned to rifing because of the many people with > lyme I know and know about who have gotten real results with it. (one > friend saw the tick, got a rash, tested positive on a standard test, was put > on antibiotics, then IV antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 > years before turning to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 > years on rife therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's > claw (which I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I > have definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few > days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is > any real science inv! > olved or not. > > What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all just > want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we all find our > way! > > judy > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife have not > tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose not to > do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day courses of > them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it took 2 years to get > my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not a > native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if they can > get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an unequivocally > positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with EM for early cases, > depends a bit on the MD). > > > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have more > incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at least in > the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users have no positive > Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) have tried > alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or some > other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are not > sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb (not > Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, including one > similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often travels together with > Bb. > > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are often > also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA has not > approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they are > already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by recommending > them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative > therapy? > > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all these > devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use by > allopathic docs though) ? > > > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency range > and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select specific > frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the ranges, randomly > generating the frequencies so you adjust your session time longer as you > adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How do > they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? Why is > there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany (and > maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have to > listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or maybe it > is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was recorded from live > Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, working in a bunker deep > underground in the Black Forest, where the most horrible Bb's are sometimes > supposed to orginate (the ones that ended up at Plum Island after WWII i > guess). Sigh ... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Judy, I would do it if I thought it would help, but generally I receive more benefit if I put those green things in my mouth. With all the concoctions I mix, pills I take, foods I restrict, there are those days when I realize: Life is short so eat dessert first.... becomes more than just a slogan. So I do. With no guilt. Most important. IMHO anyway. May everyday be a good day! Re: [ ] Re: coiling > > Hi, > I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the > iGenix western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely > made headway but the change was less and less, even though my > antibiotics were changed every few months. I was also having a harder > and harder time dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing > because of the many people with lyme I know and know about who have > gotten real results with it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, > tested positive on a standard test, was put on antibiotics, then IV > antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 years before turning > to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 years on rife > therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's claw (which > I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I have > definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few > days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is any real science inv! > olved or not. > > What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all > just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we > all find our way! > > judy > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife > > > have not > tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose > not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day > courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it > took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not > > a > native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if > they can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an > unequivocally positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with > EM for early cases, depends a bit on the MD). > > > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have > > more > incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at > least in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users > have no positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) > have tried alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or > > > some > other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are > > not > sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb > (not Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, > including one similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often > travels together with Bb. > > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are > > often > also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA > > > has not > approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they > are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by > recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative > therapy? > > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all > > these > devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use > by allopathic docs though) ? > > > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency > > > range > and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select > specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the > ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session > time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How > > do > they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? > Why is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany > > (and > maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have > to listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or > maybe it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was > recorded from live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, > working in a bunker deep underground in the Black Forest, where the > most horrible Bb's are sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that > ended up at Plum Island after WWII i guess). Sigh ... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 where can i get the rife machine please emailoff list thanks...Leanne From: wilson33@... Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:55:19 -0700 Subject: RE: [ ] Re: coiling Judy, I would do it if I thought it would help, but generally I receive more benefit if I put those green things in my mouth. With all the concoctions I mix, pills I take, foods I restrict, there are those days when I realize: Life is short so eat dessert first.... becomes more than just a slogan. So I do. With no guilt. Most important. IMHO anyway. May everyday be a good day! Re: [ ] Re: coiling > > Hi, > I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the > iGenix western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely > made headway but the change was less and less, even though my > antibiotics were changed every few months. I was also having a harder > and harder time dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing > because of the many people with lyme I know and know about who have > gotten real results with it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, > tested positive on a standard test, was put on antibiotics, then IV > antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 years before turning > to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 years on rife > therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's claw (which > I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I have > definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few > days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is any real science inv! > olved or not. > > What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all > just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we > all find our way! > > judy > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife > > > have not > tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose > not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day > courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it > took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not > > a > native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if > they can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an > unequivocally positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with > EM for early cases, depends a bit on the MD). > > > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have > > more > incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at > least in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users > have no positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) > have tried alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or > > > some > other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are > > not > sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb > (not Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, > including one similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often > travels together with Bb. > > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are > > often > also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA > > > has not > approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they > are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by > recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative > therapy? > > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all > > these > devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use > by allopathic docs though) ? > > > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency > > > range > and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select > specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the > ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session > time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How > > do > they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? > Why is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany > > (and > maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have > to listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or > maybe it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was > recorded from live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, > working in a bunker deep underground in the Black Forest, where the > most horrible Bb's are sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that > ended up at Plum Island after WWII i guess). Sigh ... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 I have the dp-100 as well. About to add the dp-300  Steel h 508.520.6905 c 508.922.0519 The harder you work the luckier you get!  ________________________________ From: Deb57 <ds@...> Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 8:41:28 AM Subject: [ ] Re: coiling  I have a DP100 and a DP300 from Meissner Research. The Meissner web site does not provide any specific info or make any claims about their machines. You can read about them or ask questions of the group DougPlus. deb > > > > > > For Lyme now, nobody's got the answer. They even don't know for sure why we are so sick. They don't know for sure the pathogen mechanism, some speaks about auto-immune disease, an other speak about neuro-toxins, some say that the Borrelia is not so aggressive. > > > > agree > > > > > So, the conclusion is that science will produce answers in decades, > > > > final answers will take a long time yes, but there are already some partial answers. Getting the answers starts with asking the right questions, that is where we are now. I don't think any of the 'alternative' therapies hold the answers either. > > > > > > > Now, for coiling, it's just important that it is working, now I will let the science tells me why in few years, but I won't wait for the science to find an explanation. > > > > I understand people want the solution now; I'm with you there. But is it a fact that rife cures Lyme?? > > > > There were some detailed Lyme patient polls in my country last year that asked whether or not patients had confirmed LD (with blood test or EM), how long they were ill, what treatments they tried, if they felt the treatment offered any advantage for their condition etc. I have read about similar studies from other countries although I haven't seen the details from those. > > > > In my country, the people who use 'rifing' or bio-resonance are usually those who haven't had positive Bb blood tests (without a positive test, they will not receive ABX treatments so are probably more likely to visit alternative practitioners). So we often don't know if these people have Lyme. Most of the longterm Lymies here DO have positive Bb blood tests, usually of course after starting with several negative 's. > > > > On the forums some people are raving about bio-resonance etc., but in the poll there was hardly anyone who was positive about the outcome, many people reported trying it without any improvement. Just for the record, about 50% of those who used antibiotics reported no or very little improvement; that agrees with what I hear in personal contacts. > > > > In the few years that I checked the Dutch forums daily, I was always surprised with the few bio-resonance supporters who kept claiming they were fully cured, while regularly coming back to the forums and reporting all kinds of general problems (sometimes matching clinical Lyme diagnosis). I know bio-resonance is not rife (rife itself is very unusual here, so difficult to say anything about patient experiences), and of course Europe is not the US. I would like to see such patient reports from other countries. > > > > If rifing cures Lyme, why haven't the ILADS docs switched to rifing instead of ABX with all its side effects? Are they too much hooked on the antibiotics trade? At least most of them are pretty good at listening to the patient ... > > > > > > > ps. Please find below some references. Some are very close to coiling, really. Amazing. > > > > I know about influence of electro magnetic fields on certain life processes, and I'm sure there are things science does not know about yet (e.g. the recent finds regarding entanglement in biological systems). > > > > But I don't see any direct relevance of this to rifing as a medical treatment. Especially not in the sense that I can't see how it could penetrate in the tissues and selectively kill bugs there. The fact that most of the manufacturers / users keep suggesting other frequencies, waveforms, procedures makes it also questionable, from a scientific point of view. > > > > Again, that doesn't mean that it can't work but I just don't see any compelling evidence that it does. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 coilmachinesforless... Stolar.......... Jay Re: [ ] Re: coiling > > Hi, > I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the > iGenix western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely > made headway but the change was less and less, even though my > antibiotics were changed every few months. I was also having a harder > and harder time dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing > because of the many people with lyme I know and know about who have > gotten real results with it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, > tested positive on a standard test, was put on antibiotics, then IV > antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 years before turning > to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 years on rife > therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's claw (which > I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I have > definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few > days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is any real science inv! > olved or not. > > What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all > just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we > all find our way! > > judy > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife > > > have not > tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose > not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day > courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it > took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not > > a > native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if > they can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an > unequivocally positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with > EM for early cases, depends a bit on the MD). > > > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have > > more > incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at > least in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users > have no positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) > have tried alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or > > > some > other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are > > not > sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb > (not Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, > including one similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often > travels together with Bb. > > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are > > often > also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA > > > has not > approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they > are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by > recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative > therapy? > > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all > > these > devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use > by allopathic docs though) ? > > > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency > > > range > and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select > specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the > ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session > time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How > > do > they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? > Why is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany > > (and > maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have > to listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or > maybe it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was > recorded from live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, > working in a bunker deep underground in the Black Forest, where the > most horrible Bb's are sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that > ended up at Plum Island after WWII i guess). Sigh ... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 http://meissnerresearch.com/index.php so easy to use  Steel h 508.520.6905 c 508.922.0519 The harder you work the luckier you get!  ________________________________ From: Jay A. Rovert <jay12@...> Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 4:34:51 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: coiling  coilmachinesforless... Stolar.......... Jay Re: [ ] Re: coiling > > Hi, > I just want to chime in here. I tested positive for lyme with the > iGenix western blot and took antibiotics for 2.5 years. I definitely > made headway but the change was less and less, even though my > antibiotics were changed every few months. I was also having a harder > and harder time dealing with candida so I stopped and turned to rifing > because of the many people with lyme I know and know about who have > gotten real results with it. (one friend saw the tick, got a rash, > tested positive on a standard test, was put on antibiotics, then IV > antibiotics and fought for her health back for 16 years before turning > to rife...she is now functioning like normal after 1.5 years on rife > therapy) I never had clear herx's on antibiotics or cat's claw (which > I took for over 6 months before turning to abx), but boy do I have > definite ones with the rifing. In between my herx's I glimpse a few > days where I can see definite improvement so I'm a believer whether there is any real science inv! > olved or not. > > What ever works for each individual is the thing to search for. We all > just want to get well and reclaim our lives. Here's wishing that we > all find our way! > > judy > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM, knot_weed wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knotweed, have YOU tried rifing? I assume you are from the U.S. > > > > no I haven't and I'm from Europe. Rifing is nearly non-existent here. > > > > > but I don't know where you get your facts that people who rife > > > have not > tested positive and thus cannot get abx. I tested positive but chose > not to do abx because over my lifetime I haven't tolerated even 10 day > courses of them (for things like strep throat, etc.) and because it > took 2 years to get my diagnosis so I was already in chronic stage. > > > > I think there is some misunderstanding here (maybe my fault, I'm not > > a > native english speaker). I think most people will try ABX first, if > they can get them. In my country, as in the US, that requires an > unequivocally positive serologic test (or sometimes a tick byte with > EM for early cases, depends a bit on the MD). > > > > Those who haven't tested positive will not get ABX and will have > > more > incentive to try alternatives, including rifing. In my country (at > least in the poll) the big majority of the rife/bioresonance users > have no positive Lyme tests. I know many others (that includes myself) > have tried alternatives because they cannot tolerate ABX or had insufficient results. > > > > > > > Some even believe that borrelia is the co-infection and bart or > > > some > other bug is the primary. This makes sense to me from my own experience. > > > > I agree that maybe Bb is not the real cause of the problem, we are > > not > sure. But from all I can see in research, it is mostly linked to Bb > (not Bart). Could be a bacterial virus (Bb carries two of them, > including one similar to retroviruses) or an unknown bug that often > travels together with Bb. > > And yes, coinfections have their part in the puzzle because they are > > often > also immune-supressing, and make the disease more complex. > > > > > > > Regarding why doctors do not suggest rife, it is because the FDA > > > has not > approved these machines. Doctors could lose their licenses (as they > are already doing due to the controversy over long term abx use) by > recommending them or charging for sessions in their practices. > > > > but doesn't the same thing apply to almost every other alternative > therapy? > > And why then is rifing not far more popular in Europe, where all > > these > devices are allowed (more or less, I think they discourage their use > by allopathic docs though) ? > > > > > I use two different types of machines - one has a lower frequency > > > range > and the other has a higher frequency range. One does not select > specific frequencies with either of these - they sweep through the > ranges, randomly generating the frequencies so you adjust your session > time longer as you adjust to the herxes. You can read about these on the dougplus group. > > > > one thing that bugs me is: where do these frequences come from. How > > do > they know that frequcy xxx will kill borrelia, or bart, or whatever? > Why is there so much disagreement about frequencies, waveforms, etc.? > > > > It sounds to me a bit like the Audio-CD's that are sold in Germany > > (and > maybe also in the US?) with sounds that kill borrelia; you just have > to listen to it and you will get well. They claim that the sound (or > maybe it is the reverse of the sound, as with bio-resonance) was > recorded from live Borrelia bacteria by some German scientists, > working in a bunker deep underground in the Black Forest, where the > most horrible Bb's are sometimes supposed to orginate (the ones that > ended up at Plum Island after WWII i guess). Sigh ... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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