Lyme and mercury

[Guest guest]

I don't recall the technical details. I'll need to look it up, but don't

have time right now.

The main thing is that many people feel better when they remove both the

Lyme and the mercury, and my understanding is that this list is about

people's experiences. The guidelines suggest that we not take any of it as

definite medical advice.

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of knot_weed

Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 4:42 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Lyme and Metals and biofilms

>

> The technical term is that the spirochetes sequester mercury. (I prefer

the

> word " cling " because it is clearer.) It is not simply that both are a

heavy

> burden on the immune system.

hmm ... I have never seen any scientific proof of that.

why would Borrelia sequester mercury??

[Guest guest]

>

> Knot_weed, I just found the time to Google this topic and immediately got

> multiple hits.

yes, I have read a few of those papers. But with 'scientific' I mean within the

official scientific literature, like you can find on PubMed and other academic

sources. I don't mean people writing stories or marketing materials that sound

like science. Really, there is nothing in the official literature regarding

Borrelia and mercury. That doesn't proof that there is no relation, but it makes

it very unlikely.

> If, as Rosner suggests, the Lyme spirochetes

> grab onto mercury that is circulating in the body, that mercury weakens our

> immunity and makes us more susceptible to continued Lyme infection.

I agree such a 'strategy' could have evolved to damage the immune system of the

host. But if Bb actively sequesters mercury it would likely kill itself, as

mercury is more or less toxic for almost every organism.

> My own bad experience with DMSA chelation was that it actually increased the

> circulation of mercury throughout my body, which increased my joint and

> muscle pain to the point that I could not walk any distance. Apparently it

> did the spirochetes residing in my joints a big favor by reducing my

> immunity to them. Since using both a natural chelator and the herbs

> recommended by Buhner for chronic Lyme disease, I have regained my mobility.

yes, that could be. I don't doubt that DMSA and other chelation agents increase

circulation of mercury (and many other toxins). I just don't think it is

directly related to Borrelia.

[Guest guest]

Hiya - there was an interesting article about the link between biofilms and

autism and heavy metals which is quite interesting: (The 1st paragraph was added

by me ie wasn't in the article!)

Biolfilm is often talked about in Lyme disease. This is a mass including all 3

forms of the borrelia bacteria (for a view of Biolfim go to :

)

This article discusses biolfilm in autism but also refers to Lyme and MS:

Dissolve Biofilms With Fibrinolytic Enzymes:

A Novel Approach to Chronic Infection in Autism Spectrum Disorders

An Interview with Peta Cohen, M.S., R.D., founder of Total Life Center in

Northern New Jersey. Cohen specializes in treating children with autism using a

biomedical / nutritional model. Cohen received her Masters in Clinical Nutrition

from New York University and has been a Defeat Autism Now! practitioner for the

past ten years.

Focus: You have evolved a highly successful strategy to treating chronic

bacterial infections and biofilms that involves some new insights and relies in

part on fibrinolytic enzymes like nattokinase and lumbrokinase. I understand you

are working with autism experts like Anjum Usman, M.D. and functional medicine

pioneers to get the word out on your new insights.

Cohen: I do a tremendous amount of testing and assessing the children through

urine and fecal analysis. What got me so interested in nattokinase and

lumbrokinase was the concept of what a biofilm infection actually is. If you do

a medline search on biofilms and platelet aggregation, fibrinogen, and fibrin,

boom, it's there right in your face. Bacteria build biofilms by first

aggregating together, and then rapidly weaving this protective web or matrix

around them. They build a polymeric matrix. It's a sticky, gluey, mucus-y goop

and it's got fibrin in it to give it an intact structure. The bacteria recruit

fibrinogen to create fibrin as part of that matrix. At that point they can shed

their outer membrane, which has the proteins that serve as antigens and as a

target of the missile of the immune system. They're very protected. They're very

crafty in creating a way to survive and procreate and hide from the immune

system.

Focus: Why are they protected, and how does that impact our health?

Cohen: They're protected because they've built this matrix but are still alive,

still fermenting and metabolizing and leaching toxins into the bloodstream,

although they may have a reduced metabolism compared to active, acute infection.

Because of the biofilm they can no longer be reached by an anti-infectious agent

or even the immune system. And because of the biofilm you may not find evidence

of the infection in the fecal matter when you do stool cultures. For years, I

knew from organic acid testing, from the short-chain fatty acids and metabolites

the children were excreting, that they carried these infections. Yet when I did

a stool culture I did not find the bugs.

Focus: When you began to work at dissolving the biofilms, did you find the bugs?

Cohen: Oh yes! But I found something else that was just as fascinating,

something nobody was thinking about. Think about what that biofilm might really

be made of. The biofilm matrix has a horizontal and a vertical weave. It's

standard knowledge that biofilm bacteria sequester calcium, magnesium and iron

to help build that matrix. Minerals give the biofilm integrity—as if you're

building a wall. You don't only want bricks, you want cement. To address this,

first you use fibrinolytics to help dissolve the fibrin, then you use EDTA to

chelate out the minerals. And guess what? We started getting huge dumps of toxic

metal. Now why is that? I think the answer points to something so huge, whether

we're dealing with autism or lyme disease or multiple sclerosis or lupus or even

cancer.

Focus: Why were the kids dumping toxic metals when you began to degrade the

biofilms?

Cohen: Well, think about it. These are all positively charged cations, that's

why EDTA is able to chelate them well. Mercury, and copper, and other heavy

metals are also positively charged. Why would the bug preferentially insert

calcium or magnesium? It could use any positively charged metal. This has been

the most fascinating part of my year-long work on biofilms. As we degraded this

biofilm matrix and liberated these bugs, not only did the organic acid levels

get higher—one child bounced into the 400's—but the kids started to dump metals

into the bowel. I felt like I'd exposed these little terrorists in a cell.

Focus: So the metals and the bugs are both in the gut?

Cohen: Right. At an Autism One Conference in Chicago last May, one researcher

presented his proton analysis of brain tissue, attempting to verify the presence

of mercury in the brains of autistic children, and he couldn't find it. Yet he

still found evidence of activation of the microglia (a type of glial cell that

acts as the first and main form of active immune defense in the central nervous

system) as a consequence of toxic metals. So where are these metals? I'm

suggesting they are in the biofilm, along with the bugs, in the gut. If the

biofilm wasn't using toxic metals, along with common minerals, to build the

biofilm, then why all of a sudden do I get these huge dumps of metals on stool

tests?

Focus: What exactly is your therapy and what sequence do you use?

Cohen: I start with enzymes like nattokinase and lumbrokinase, as well as other

mucolytic enzymes, to get the best, broad fibrinolytic effect. Dr. Usman feels

nattokinase is particularly good at degrading strep biofilms and I think that

strep is a very big player in these childrens' health. I will run strep titers

and they will be extraordinarily high. And these children—and certainly some

adults as well—will manifest strep as a comorbid infection that has significant

implications for neurological function. They will have very OCD type tendencies,

and sometimes almost psychotic outbursts. There isn't a precise, sudden onset

with obvious symptoms.

Focus: How much do you recommend?

Cohen: Remember, these patients are very young; some are just a few years old.

So I will recommend half a capsule of each, two times a day. That would be a 50

milligram capsule of nattokinase, and a 20 milligram capsule of lumbrokinase.

First do the enzymes along with EDTA, then thirty minutes later, add in an

arsenal of antimicrobials. I use formulations containing berberine, artemisinin,

citrus seed extract, black walnut hulls, artemisia herb, echinacea, goldenseal,

gentian, tea tree oil, fumitory, gentian, galbanum oil, oregano oil, neem, and

pharmaceuticals as well when necessary, such as Vancomycin, Diflucan,

Gentamycin. I use a different one every day. Then an hour later you come in with

the binders to help mop up the debris. I use chitosan, citrus pectin, a special

bicarbonate formula, organic germanium, chlorella and others. I also use

buffering agents, such as buffered vitamin C, since when the body is destroying

bacteria it becomes acidic.

Minerals must be assessed, and repleted when necessary. I test bloodwork and

" pees and poos " (urine and stool) every two months to monitor the process.

Focus: Enzymes, EDTA, antimicrobials, binders, and buffering agents. What are

the clinical results?

Cohen: They're fantastic. It's like the missing piece. I had one little autistic

boy who lives in the city who is loaded with viruses and infections and is now

almost fully recovered. His mother used to complain about the terribly high

levels of copper in his bloodstream and that his hair was like a copper

mattress. We measured the hair but there was a marginal amount of copper in it.

He was not eliminating. As we got into the thick of the biofilms his copper blew

out of his body in his stool, for months and months. He'd been loaded with

copper. I've had other children struggling for ages to get mercury out, and out

it came.

Focus: It sounds like this approach would work for any chronic illness in which

chronic infection plays a role.

Cohen: Yes, I think biofilms are a huge missing piece in Lupus, Lyme Disease,

Multiple Sclerosis and any autoimmune-type chronic infection. You have to ask,

what compels the immune system to maintain this state of dysfunction? Ask

yourself, how could an organism perceived by the immune system as foreign

survive its presence? Either something has corrupted the immune system, or the

organism has transformed itself in a way that the immune system can't find it.

That's what the biofilm does. I believe it's one of the biggest medical issues

we're dealing with today.

http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/Mar-2009-Focus-Newsletter-Biofilms-and-Fibri\

nolytic-Enzymes-sp-90.html

> >

> > Knot_weed, I just found the time to Google this topic and immediately got

> > multiple hits.

>

> yes, I have read a few of those papers. But with 'scientific' I mean within

the official scientific literature, like you can find on PubMed and other

academic sources. I don't mean people writing stories or marketing materials

that sound like science. Really, there is nothing in the official literature

regarding Borrelia and mercury. That doesn't proof that there is no relation,

but it makes it very unlikely.

>

>

> > If, as Rosner suggests, the Lyme spirochetes

> > grab onto mercury that is circulating in the body, that mercury weakens our

> > immunity and makes us more susceptible to continued Lyme infection.

>

> I agree such a 'strategy' could have evolved to damage the immune system of

the host. But if Bb actively sequesters mercury it would likely kill itself, as

mercury is more or less toxic for almost every organism.

>

>

> > My own bad experience with DMSA chelation was that it actually increased the

> > circulation of mercury throughout my body, which increased my joint and

> > muscle pain to the point that I could not walk any distance. Apparently it

> > did the spirochetes residing in my joints a big favor by reducing my

> > immunity to them. Since using both a natural chelator and the herbs

> > recommended by Buhner for chronic Lyme disease, I have regained my mobility.

>

> yes, that could be. I don't doubt that DMSA and other chelation agents

increase circulation of mercury (and many other toxins). I just don't think it

is directly related to Borrelia.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Madeleine - there's an interesting article about biofilms and autism (and

they mention Lyme also). In there is a bit about biolfims sequestering mercury.

(I tried to link this earlier today but it hasn't come up so apologise if I'm

repeating myself)!! The original link I gave is old so this one should work OK:

Dissolve Biofilms With Fibrinolytic Enzymes

http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/dissolve-biofilms-with-fibrinolyt\

ic-enzymes-autism-support

>

>

>

> Knot_weed, I just found the time to Google this topic and immediately got

> multiple hits. More than one of them indicates that the explanation of how

> Lyme sequesters mercury is given in Rosner's book, The 10 Top

> Treatments for Lyme Disease. Rosner wrote, " as part of its life cycle and

> survival mechanism, the Lyme Disease organism itself accumulates and

> sequesters mercury. Many researchers have observed that some infective

> organisms, once established inside the human body, store or use mercury to

> create a living environment, a niche within the body, inside which the

> body's defenses are compromised and weakened due to the presence of this

> heavy metal. Because mercury is an immunosuppressant, it is feasible that

> the Lyme Disease spirochete sequesters mercury in the body as a tool for

> continued survival in the host environment. The spirochete would do this by

> grabbing onto minuscule amounts of mercury circulating in the body due to

> regular (small) daily mercury exposure. After time, the Lyme Disease

> organisms would store up more than just a minuscule amount. Significantly

> increased body burden of mercury would result. "

>

>

>

> The question of " why " suggests a certain intelligent intentionality on the

> part of spirochetes. I am not sure I would give them that much credit.

> However, Buhner in his book did write, " Borrelia spirochetes have a

> tremendous and very sophisticated ability to sense the makeup of the

> environment they live within. " If, as Rosner suggests, the Lyme spirochetes

> grab onto mercury that is circulating in the body, that mercury weakens our

> immunity and makes us more susceptible to continued Lyme infection.

>

>

>

> My own bad experience with DMSA chelation was that it actually increased the

> circulation of mercury throughout my body, which increased my joint and

> muscle pain to the point that I could not walk any distance. Apparently it

> did the spirochetes residing in my joints a big favor by reducing my

> immunity to them. Since using both a natural chelator and the herbs

> recommended by Buhner for chronic Lyme disease, I have regained my mobility.

>

>

>

> Madeleine

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of knot_weed

> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 4:42 AM

>

> Subject: [ ] Re: Lyme and Metals and biofilms

>

> hmm ... I have never seen any scientific proof of that.

> why would Borrelia sequester mercury??

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is natural chelator that you used?

Jay

[ ] Re: Lyme and Metals and biofilms

>

> hmm ... I have never seen any scientific proof of that.

> why would Borrelia sequester mercury??

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jay - I use serrapeptase (protelytic enzyme), followed by sublingual

glutathione and EDTA (roughly about the same time on an empty stomach to help

with metals). I then take cholorella am and pm to try and help bind the

toxins..

>

> What is natural chelator that you used?

> Jay

> [ ] Re: Lyme and mercury

>

>

>

> Hi Madeleine - there's an interesting article about biofilms and autism (and

they mention Lyme also). In there is a bit about biolfims sequestering mercury.

(I tried to link this earlier today but it hasn't come up so apologise if I'm

repeating myself)!! The original link I gave is old so this one should work OK:

>

> Dissolve Biofilms With Fibrinolytic Enzymes

>

http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/dissolve-biofilms-with-fibrinolyt\

ic-enzymes-autism-support

>

[Guest guest]

bio mat helps safe sauna detox 4 8 12 hr w/ neg ion ask 4 website + code

On Sun Jun 20th, 2010 9:53 AM PDT jennyodea wrote:

>Hi Jay - I use serrapeptase (protelytic enzyme), followed by sublingual

glutathione and EDTA (roughly about the same time on an empty stomach to help

with metals). I then take cholorella am and pm to try and help bind the

toxins..

>

>

>>

>> What is natural chelator that you used?

>> Jay

>> [ ] Re: Lyme and mercury

>>

>>

>>

>> Hi Madeleine - there's an interesting article about biofilms and autism (and

they mention Lyme also). In there is a bit about biolfims sequestering mercury.

(I tried to link this earlier today but it hasn't come up so apologise if I'm

repeating myself)!! The original link I gave is old so this one should work OK:

>>

>> Dissolve Biofilms With Fibrinolytic Enzymes

>>

http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/dissolve-biofilms-with-fibrinolyt\

ic-enzymes-autism-support

>>

>