OT: interesting article on biofilms

[Guest guest]

http://www.twofrogscenter.com/lyme_infiltrator.html

deb

[Guest guest]

Interesting article. Of course, it led to another question: Do the

spirochetes generate biofilms only when attacked by antibiotics? Does this

mean that people who have not taken the large doses of antibiotics typical

of Lyme treatment, sticking only to herbs, need not be concerned about

biofilms?

Madeleine

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Deb57

Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:09 AM

Subject: [ ] OT: interesting article on biofilms

http://www.twofrogscenter.com/lyme_infiltrator.html

[Guest guest]

>

> http://www.twofrogscenter.com/lyme_infiltrator.html

Lyme relapse is not just because of biofilm; first of all it is because of Bb

persister forms that can exist independent from biofilm formation (e.g. cyst,

CWD form, granules etc.). Most of these persister forms are induced by use of

antibiotics (as some people say: the ABX drive the Bb deeper into the tissues,

or strenghten its defenses).

It is interesting that the Tc herb works against Cystic Fibrosis, but that

doesn't prove anything about it working against Borrelia, which is a totally

different organism. I have not seen any official studies regarding treatment of

Borrelia biofilms (in fact, many scientists still doubt if they exist ...).

My guess is that the Tc works through quorum sensing, as is seems to do the same

(regulating gene expression) as some other QS substances that were tested for

treating bacterial biofilms.

[Guest guest]

>

> Interesting article. Of course, it led to another question: Do the

> spirochetes generate biofilms only when attacked by antibiotics? Does this

> mean that people who have not taken the large doses of antibiotics typical

> of Lyme treatment, sticking only to herbs, need not be concerned about

> biofilms?

no, the spirochetes (like most other bacterial infections) always form biofilms.

But this takes time, if only because they need to be with sufficient numbers,

and they replicate relatively slowly. This may be one of the factors why 'Lyme'

turns into 'chronic Lyme' after about 1/2-2 years.

Probably some ABX will stimulate biofilm formation, just like some types of ABX

stimulate cyst or CWD formation. Those are all protective mechanisms for the

spirochetes. Maybe some herbs also stimulate biofilm formation, but I guess that

is less likely. If you have been ill for a long time before starting the herbs,

I think you still have to assume Bb biofilms are present.

[Guest guest]

There are two forms of biofilms. One is a sticky goo, and the other is

proteins and metals creating electronic circuitry to each other. They

are independent of treatment, seemingly caused more by our food and lack

of ability to metabolize our nutrients correctly and digest our food

correctly, etc. Things that reduce metals, different diets,

proteolyptics and other protease digesting aids, reduce biofilms.

Antiprotozoans also reduce biofilms and seem to have the least amount of

die-off concerns. Some pathogens are capable of creating biofilms,

others connect to those pathogens that are, and others are surrounded by

this gunk floating around in the blood, causing the biofilms. The white

blood cells or the antibiotics are not penetrating these biofilms to get

to the pathogens. Once you have Lyme or another immune suppressing

pathogen, you WILL stockpile other pathogens and toxins. It is

inevitable. Immune suppression keeps you from killing the pathogens you

come into contact with daily and also the ones your body has been

carrying and keeping under control, are now getting out-of-control.

Keep googling key words that I mentioned and you will keep learning

more. I am not really doing anything directly for biofilms, but

probably should because I hear so many improvements from doing such. I

am more of a gentle healer. Biofilm protocols are pretty strong.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

Interesting article. Of course, it led to another question: Do the

spirochetes generate biofilms only when attacked by antibiotics? Does this

mean that people who have not taken the large doses of antibiotics typical

of Lyme treatment, sticking only to herbs, need not be concerned about

biofilms?

Madeleine

[Guest guest]

>

> There are two forms of biofilms. One is a sticky goo, and the other is

> proteins and metals creating electronic circuitry to each other. They

> are independent of treatment, seemingly caused more by our food and lack

> of ability to metabolize our nutrients correctly and digest our food

> correctly, etc.

AFAIK most biofilms have both of these properties: a protective layer and the

circuitry (I think nanowires is a better word, because it is not really

electronic - they can pass signals, genes, energy, building blocks, etc.). Both

of these are created by the bacteria, not by proteins and metals.

[Guest guest]

I agree that bacteria are known for this, but reports are now saying

that there is always a protozoan in the biofilms and that viruses just

recently been publicized at doing the protein filaments or whatever one

wants to call them. I have heard that these electronic

circuitry/nanowires are mostly proteins and arsenic.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

AFAIK most biofilms have both of these properties: a protective layer

and the circuitry (I think nanowires is a better word, because it is not

really electronic - they can pass signals, genes, energy, building

blocks, etc.). Both of these are created by the bacteria, not by

proteins and metals.

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree that bacteria are known for this, but reports are now saying

> that there is always a protozoan in the biofilms and that viruses just

nothing in the scientific literature about that. Biofilms are very diverse, some

probably are just one type of bacteria, others have hundreds of species

(including, probably, protozoa). Viruses are not a normal part of the biofilm

because they act intracellular. If anything, they (bacteriophages) can act to

destroy biofilms.

> recently been publicized at doing the protein filaments or whatever one

> wants to call them. I have heard that these electronic

> circuitry/nanowires are mostly proteins and arsenic.

Mostly proteins: yes probably. But arsenic in biological nanowires? unlikely

IMHO. Have never seen it mentioned in the scientific literature. Arsenic can be

a component in electronic nanowires, as used in the semiconductor industry, but

that's totally unrelated ...