Re: Does Artemisinin cause herxing?

[Guest guest]

Yes, I've read others reporting big herxing with artemisin, so go slowly

with it.- Robin

In a message dated 6/15/2008 3:07:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

bye.byebb@... writes:

Hi everyone. Does Artemisinin cause herxing like Mepron with the

appropriate antibiotic does?

Thanks!

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

[Guest guest]

Thanks Robin.

I took 500 mg for the time Buhner recommended and have been taking 300

mg daily since. I have been taking it for about three weeks now, and I

think I am herxing. When I was on Mepron, I also herxed in the third

week of treatment.

[Guest guest]

I had a very strong herx with artemisin. It was a CNS tyle herx like

I had with minocycline. I am not convinced it was babesia it was

getting, either. Sal

>

> Yes, I've read others reporting big herxing with artemisin, so go

slowly

> with it.- Robin

>

>

> In a message dated 6/15/2008 3:07:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> bye.byebb@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Hi everyone. Does Artemisinin cause herxing like Mepron with the

> appropriate antibiotic does?

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

> fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?

ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I took Artemisinin a couple years ago, and felt almost nothing with it, but I

probably didn't have Babesia. & nbsp; I then tried Aretmisia annua whole herb and

did feel more with that.

& nbsp;

Jim.

###

From: sfrobink@... & lt;sfrobink@... & gt;

Subject: Re: [ ] Does Artemisinin cause herxing?

Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 11:20 PM

Yes, I've read others reporting big herxing with artemisin, so go slowly

with it.- Robin

In a message dated 6/15/2008 3:07:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

bye.byebb (DOT) com writes:

Hi everyone. Does Artemisinin cause herxing like Mepron with the

appropriate antibiotic does?

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Robin. I started with Buhner's recommended dose of 500 mg daily

for five days. I have been taking 300 mg daily for over two weeks.

When I took Mepron, I usually herxed every three weeks or so.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sal. What herx symptoms did you have? Do you think it was

also targeting Lyme?

How long did you take it?

>

> I had a very strong herx with artemisin. It was a CNS tyle herx

like

> I had with minocycline. I am not convinced it was babesia it was

> getting, either. Sal

>

[Guest guest]

May I ask if you had an immediate herx within the first 48-72 hours? or just the

three week cycle?

Thanks

[ ] Re: Does Artemisinin cause herxing?

Thanks Robin. I started with Buhner's recommended dose of 500 mg daily

for five days. I have been taking 300 mg daily for over two weeks.

When I took Mepron, I usually herxed every three weeks or so.

[Guest guest]

It was almost immediate... within a day or two. I crashed afterwards

and had to stop all meds at the time. Had to call my mother to come

help me. It was a CNS event... emotional basketcase... shakes and

tremors... I had a similar exeperience on minocycline with shakes and

tremors and had to make my husband postphone a fishing trips with

that one. This was pre disagnosis with the minocycline. The art was

at the end of my babesia txt.. which I stopped without consent of my

doctor. Have a new doc and a Fry since that did not show babesia, so

I am not sure it was actually getting babesia at the time. Could have

been..??? I stopped in within a week I think. I know it was hitting

something and want to go back to it at some point... I think. I do

wonder if it was a reaction to the art and not a herx. That's how

strong it was. HTH Sal

> >

> > I had a very strong herx with artemisin. It was a CNS tyle herx

> like

> > I had with minocycline. I am not convinced it was babesia it was

> > getting, either. Sal

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Sal, that is quite a reaction. It is very scary when things are

so intense. It can be so hard to tell if a reaction is a herx or a

reaction to the med. Since the tests are not 100%, I guess time will

tell if you have Babesiosis or not. I hope you don't!

I hope you like your new doctor

>

> It was almost immediate... within a day or two. I crashed

afterwards

> and had to stop all meds at the time. Had to call my mother to come

> help me. It was a CNS event... emotional basketcase... shakes and

> tremors... I had a similar exeperience on minocycline with shakes

and

> tremors and had to make my husband postphone a fishing trips with

> that one. This was pre disagnosis with the minocycline. The art was

> at the end of my babesia txt.. which I stopped without consent of

my

> doctor. Have a new doc and a Fry since that did not show babesia,

so

> I am not sure it was actually getting babesia at the time. Could

have

> been..??? I stopped in within a week I think. I know it was hitting

> something and want to go back to it at some point... I think. I do

> wonder if it was a reaction to the art and not a herx. That's how

> strong it was. HTH Sal

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jim. Do you think it was affecting Lyme?

>

> I took Artemisinin a couple years ago, and felt almost nothing with

it, but I probably didn't have Babesia. & nbsp; I then tried Aretmisia

annua whole herb and did feel more with that.

> & nbsp;

> Jim.

[Guest guest]

Hi . When I was on Mepron and Zithromax, I herxed on the third

day and every three weeks or so. I had a severe case of Babesiosis

and felt pretty bad the entire time I was treating it.

When I started Artemisinin, I did not herx right away. I noticed

small improvements such as it took the edge off of the horrible

nausea I was having.

Are you taking it now?

>

> May I ask if you had an immediate herx within the first 48-72

hours? or just the three week cycle?

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding, I just took 100Mg and waited, two days later a mack truck

hit me. I've learned to be causious on new drugs, never know how you will react.

Always the dilema, are you herxing or are allergic to the med, hard to tell

sometimes as you may know.

Your response sounds more like the cycle I would have predicted. How were you

confirmed with Babs?

[ ] Re: Does Artemisinin cause herxing?

Hi . When I was on Mepron and Zithromax, I herxed on the third

day and every three weeks or so. I had a severe case of Babesiosis

and felt pretty bad the entire time I was treating it.

When I started Artemisinin, I did not herx right away. I noticed

small improvements such as it took the edge off of the horrible

nausea I was having.

Are you taking it now?

>

> May I ask if you had an immediate herx within the first 48-72

hours? or just the three week cycle?

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

What were your reactions like? Thank you... Sal

> >

> > May I ask if you had an immediate herx within the first 48-72

> hours? or just the three week cycle?

> > Thanks

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you.:-) I was IgG positive for BMicroti and WA-1. I was in the

4th monht of txt with Mepron, Biaxin then Zith, and Doxy when

Artemisinin was added. I'm not sure it was a babesia herx because I

stopped txt within days of taking the Art and just had a Fry that

showed no babesia... although that is only a small snapshot. It was

not what I thought a babesia herx would feel like, but I could be

very wrong. I'm wondering if a Babesia herx can involve the CNS with

extreme emotional lability. Sal

> >

> > It was almost immediate... within a day or two. I crashed

> afterwards

> > and had to stop all meds at the time. Had to call my mother to

come

> > help me. It was a CNS event... emotional basketcase... shakes and

> > tremors... I had a similar exeperience on minocycline with shakes

> and

> > tremors and had to make my husband postphone a fishing trips with

> > that one. This was pre disagnosis with the minocycline. The art

was

> > at the end of my babesia txt.. which I stopped without consent of

> my

> > doctor. Have a new doc and a Fry since that did not show babesia,

> so

> > I am not sure it was actually getting babesia at the time. Could

> have

> > been..??? I stopped in within a week I think. I know it was

hitting

> > something and want to go back to it at some point... I think. I do

> > wonder if it was a reaction to the art and not a herx. That's how

> > strong it was. HTH Sal

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sal. I had severe heart palpitations, chest pain, sweating/chills,

shortness of breath, extreme nausea, muscle weakness, stiff neck,

wooziness, and horrible headaches. Sometimes I would be so cold I

would wear layers of clothes and sit on my porch in the summer.

I also had anemia, low hematocrit, and low hemoglobin. I ended up in

the ER during one herx. I had a very high fever and shaking chills

that were so extreme my teeth were chattering non-stop.

I found out a few weeks ago that the Babesiosis and Ehrlichiosis are

back. I currently do not have a doctor. I am having several symptoms

and am concerned it will get worse. I started the Artemisinin a few

weeks ago. It is taking the edge off, but I don't know if it will be

strong enough to eradicate it. My symptoms have intensified this

week, so I am hoping it is a herx.

How are you doing?

> > >

> > > May I ask if you had an immediate herx within the first 48-72

> > hours? or just the three week cycle?

> > > Thanks

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Sal. I had severe heart palpitations, chest pain,

sweating/chills,

> shortness of breath, extreme nausea, muscle weakness, stiff neck,

> wooziness, and horrible headaches. Sometimes I would be so cold I

> would wear layers of clothes and sit on my porch in the summer.

>

> I also had anemia, low hematocrit, and low hemoglobin. I ended up

in

> the ER during one herx. I had a very high fever and shaking chills

> that were so extreme my teeth were chattering non-stop.>>

*********

I've not had the sweats or nausea or bad headaches. I'm beginning to

wonder if my worst symptoms are bartonella/myco and not babesia.

While on babesia meds, I did not feel that much better. Felt better

when I got off them. Had IgG IgM testing and was positive for B

Microti and WA-1. Used a heating pad constantly to stay warm. Chill

and palps, muscle fatigue, shortness of breath, tremors, anxiety, bad

neck stiffness and pain, brain fog... main symptoms. No anemia et al.

Shakes bad with artemisinin and minocycline. I am also wondering if

it was truly the art and not the zith I had been switch to (form

Biaxin) that caused me to crash with an extreme emotional reaction

and tremors. That could be consistant with bartonella/myco...

(talking my stuff). When I knew something was really wrong with me

over 4 years ago, I had a shaking chills attack, which might have

been the babesia? I have no idea anymore what is what.

****************

>

> I found out a few weeks ago that the Babesiosis and Ehrlichiosis

are

> back. I currently do not have a doctor. I am having several

symptoms

> and am concerned it will get worse. I started the Artemisinin a

few

> weeks ago. It is taking the edge off, but I don't know if it will

be

> strong enough to eradicate it. My symptoms have intensified this

> week, so I am hoping it is a herx.

************

I'm sorry. Hopefully with a little time, the art will be helpful.

***************

>

> How are you doing?

***************

My Fry smear did not show babesia. That's after 4 plus months with

Mepron and either Biaxin or zith with doxy at times and art for a

week when I crashed. I had also just switched a week of so before

that to zith. I have been off of antimicrobials except garlic for

maybe two-three months... I dont keep up. I ramped up salt C to 8

grams, so not sure I just had a herx or flare or getting worse or

salt c does not agree with my dysautonomia. Muscle tremors, stiff

neck, hypersomnia, fatigue, anxiety my main symptoms with flu like

joint and muscle pain at times.

I'm taking out some supplements to see what happens and have Burnher

herbs here to work in.

Sal

[Guest guest]

I would NOT count on that as being a HERX.  Probably could be the bug.  I don't

think Artemisinin by itself is all that potent.  You definitely need much more. 

Are you taking Red Root tincture and Sarsaparilla and Milk THistle?  These

should stop any herx.  And how about Acidophilus?  Yogurt?

 

When I have a lot of pain or other symptoms I do NOT think it is a herx at all.

Rarely! When " I " have pain, it is a bug kicking up, usually.

Have it checked out if YOU are in doubt.

Jim.

###

From: denalihike <creekhopper@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Does Artemisinin cause herxing?

Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 12:38 PM

>

> Hi Sal. I had severe heart palpitations, chest pain,

sweating/chills,

> shortness of breath, extreme nausea, muscle weakness, stiff neck,

> wooziness, and horrible headaches. Sometimes I would be so cold I

> would wear layers of clothes and sit on my porch in the summer.

>

> I also had anemia, low hematocrit, and low hemoglobin. I ended up

in

> the ER during one herx. I had a very high fever and shaking chills

> that were so extreme my teeth were chattering non-stop.>>

*********

I've not had the sweats or nausea or bad headaches. I'm beginning to

wonder if my worst symptoms are bartonella/myco and not babesia.

While on babesia meds, I did not feel that much better. Felt better

when I got off them. Had IgG IgM testing and was positive for B

Microti and WA-1. Used a heating pad constantly to stay warm. Chill

and palps, muscle fatigue, shortness of breath, tremors, anxiety, bad

neck stiffness and pain, brain fog... main symptoms. No anemia et al.

Shakes bad with artemisinin and minocycline. I am also wondering if

it was truly the art and not the zith I had been switch to (form

Biaxin) that caused me to crash with an extreme emotional reaction

and tremors. That could be consistant with bartonella/myco. ..

(talking my stuff). When I knew something was really wrong with me

over 4 years ago, I had a shaking chills attack, which might have

been the babesia? I have no idea anymore what is what.

************ ****

>

> I found out a few weeks ago that the Babesiosis and Ehrlichiosis

are

> back. I currently do not have a doctor. I am having several

symptoms

> and am concerned it will get worse. I started the Artemisinin a

few

> weeks ago. It is taking the edge off, but I don't know if it will

be

> strong enough to eradicate it. My symptoms have intensified this

> week, so I am hoping it is a herx.

************

I'm sorry. Hopefully with a little time, the art will be helpful.

************ ***

>

> How are you doing?

************ ***

My Fry smear did not show babesia. That's after 4 plus months with

Mepron and either Biaxin or zith with doxy at times and art for a

week when I crashed. I had also just switched a week of so before

that to zith. I have been off of antimicrobials except garlic for

maybe two-three months... I dont keep up. I ramped up salt C to 8

grams, so not sure I just had a herx or flare or getting worse or

salt c does not agree with my dysautonomia. Muscle tremors, stiff

neck, hypersomnia, fatigue, anxiety my main symptoms with flu like

joint and muscle pain at times.

I'm taking out some supplements to see what happens and have Burnher

herbs here to work in.

Sal

[Guest guest]

This was in the past, Jim. I am now thinking it is possible it was

the zith that I started taking maybe a week or two before the art. I

was not on Buhner's protocol at the time. I am not on it yet. Right

now I am trying to heal my digestive tract from candida. Honestly, I

am wondering where a herx begins and ends esp if one is not taking

herbs to keep the system clean. Even if one is not bug killing with

substances. Who is to say that my aches and pains are not herxes even

when not taking herbs or abx ot that they are the bugs acting up?

Couldnt an immune system kick in every now and then to kill a load

and release toxins? I've had several herx type feelings while on beta

glucan and garlic and coconut oil... am I herxing or are the bugs

acting up? I don't know. Does anyone? Sal

> >

> > Hi Sal. I had severe heart palpitations, chest pain,

> sweating/chills,

> > shortness of breath, extreme nausea, muscle weakness, stiff neck,

> > wooziness, and horrible headaches. Sometimes I would be so cold I

> > would wear layers of clothes and sit on my porch in the summer.

> >

> > I also had anemia, low hematocrit, and low hemoglobin. I ended up

> in

> > the ER during one herx. I had a very high fever and shaking

chills

> > that were so extreme my teeth were chattering non-stop.>>

>

> *********

> I've not had the sweats or nausea or bad headaches. I'm beginning

to

> wonder if my worst symptoms are bartonella/myco and not babesia.

> While on babesia meds, I did not feel that much better. Felt better

> when I got off them. Had IgG IgM testing and was positive for B

> Microti and WA-1. Used a heating pad constantly to stay warm. Chill

> and palps, muscle fatigue, shortness of breath, tremors, anxiety,

bad

> neck stiffness and pain, brain fog... main symptoms. No anemia et

al.

> Shakes bad with artemisinin and minocycline. I am also wondering if

> it was truly the art and not the zith I had been switch to (form

> Biaxin) that caused me to crash with an extreme emotional reaction

> and tremors. That could be consistant with bartonella/myco. ..

> (talking my stuff). When I knew something was really wrong with me

> over 4 years ago, I had a shaking chills attack, which might have

> been the babesia? I have no idea anymore what is what.

> ************ ****

> >

> > I found out a few weeks ago that the Babesiosis and Ehrlichiosis

> are

> > back. I currently do not have a doctor. I am having several

> symptoms

> > and am concerned it will get worse. I started the Artemisinin a

> few

> > weeks ago. It is taking the edge off, but I don't know if it will

> be

> > strong enough to eradicate it. My symptoms have intensified this

> > week, so I am hoping it is a herx.

>

> ************

> I'm sorry. Hopefully with a little time, the art will be helpful.

>

> ************ ***

> >

> > How are you doing?

> ************ ***

> My Fry smear did not show babesia. That's after 4 plus months with

> Mepron and either Biaxin or zith with doxy at times and art for a

> week when I crashed. I had also just switched a week of so before

> that to zith. I have been off of antimicrobials except garlic for

> maybe two-three months... I dont keep up. I ramped up salt C to 8

> grams, so not sure I just had a herx or flare or getting worse or

> salt c does not agree with my dysautonomia. Muscle tremors, stiff

> neck, hypersomnia, fatigue, anxiety my main symptoms with flu like

> joint and muscle pain at times.

>

> I'm taking out some supplements to see what happens and have

Burnher

> herbs here to work in.

>

> Sal

>

[Guest guest]

Sal, Since beta glucan stimulates the immune system, and garlic is

a 'bug killer,' they could cause a herx. Of course, the zith could

cause a herx as well.

I usually puzzled as to whether I'm herxing or its the bugs acting

up; sometimes I can tell its a herx when it happens right after I

start something strong, but often I can't tell which it is.

Jim says art is 'not strong' but I find that I feel a lot better on

it so it is doing something good. After only a few days on it, I

start to feel better. We're all unique in what 'bugs' we're fighting

and how our bodies react.

jo

> > >

> > > Hi Sal. I had severe heart palpitations, chest pain,

> > sweating/chills,

> > > shortness of breath, extreme nausea, muscle weakness, stiff

neck,

> > > wooziness, and horrible headaches. Sometimes I would be so cold

I

> > > would wear layers of clothes and sit on my porch in the summer.

> > >

> > > I also had anemia, low hematocrit, and low hemoglobin. I ended

up

> > in

> > > the ER during one herx. I had a very high fever and shaking

> chills

> > > that were so extreme my teeth were chattering non-stop.>>

> >

> > *********

> > I've not had the sweats or nausea or bad headaches. I'm beginning

> to

> > wonder if my worst symptoms are bartonella/myco and not babesia.

> > While on babesia meds, I did not feel that much better. Felt

better

> > when I got off them. Had IgG IgM testing and was positive for B

> > Microti and WA-1. Used a heating pad constantly to stay warm.

Chill

> > and palps, muscle fatigue, shortness of breath, tremors, anxiety,

> bad

> > neck stiffness and pain, brain fog... main symptoms. No anemia et

> al.

> > Shakes bad with artemisinin and minocycline. I am also wondering

if

> > it was truly the art and not the zith I had been switch to (form

> > Biaxin) that caused me to crash with an extreme emotional

reaction

> > and tremors. That could be consistant with bartonella/myco. ..

> > (talking my stuff). When I knew something was really wrong with

me

> > over 4 years ago, I had a shaking chills attack, which might have

> > been the babesia? I have no idea anymore what is what.

> > ************ ****

> > >

> > > I found out a few weeks ago that the Babesiosis and

Ehrlichiosis

> > are

> > > back. I currently do not have a doctor. I am having several

> > symptoms

> > > and am concerned it will get worse. I started the Artemisinin a

> > few

> > > weeks ago. It is taking the edge off, but I don't know if it

will

> > be

> > > strong enough to eradicate it. My symptoms have intensified

this

> > > week, so I am hoping it is a herx.

> >

> > ************

> > I'm sorry. Hopefully with a little time, the art will be helpful.

> >

> > ************ ***

> > >

> > > How are you doing?

> > ************ ***

> > My Fry smear did not show babesia. That's after 4 plus months

with

> > Mepron and either Biaxin or zith with doxy at times and art for a

> > week when I crashed. I had also just switched a week of so before

> > that to zith. I have been off of antimicrobials except garlic for

> > maybe two-three months... I dont keep up. I ramped up salt C to 8

> > grams, so not sure I just had a herx or flare or getting worse or

> > salt c does not agree with my dysautonomia. Muscle tremors, stiff

> > neck, hypersomnia, fatigue, anxiety my main symptoms with flu

like

> > joint and muscle pain at times.

> >

> > I'm taking out some supplements to see what happens and have

> Burnher

> > herbs here to work in.

> >

> > Sal

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was hoping that to be the case. I also wonder with a working immune

system, how many symptoms are actually herx symptoms. I am thinking

the way to tell is if one gets worse or better (or even stays the

same) over time... ?? Sal

>

> Sal, Since beta glucan stimulates the immune system, and garlic is

> a 'bug killer,' they could cause a herx. Of course, the zith could

> cause a herx as well.

>

> I usually puzzled as to whether I'm herxing or its the bugs acting

> up; sometimes I can tell its a herx when it happens right after I

> start something strong, but often I can't tell which it is.

>

> Jim says art is 'not strong' but I find that I feel a lot better on

> it so it is doing something good. After only a few days on it, I

> start to feel better. We're all unique in what 'bugs' we're

fighting

> and how our bodies react.

>

> jo

>

>

>

>