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Anyone have medical abstracts that state that the Western Blot can revert to negative with abx treatment? I have a guy that emailed me that is in a pickle, his wife tested + and ins sent her to a specialist ( ahhuhh ) who said that her WB was neg, so she is now neg and Ins wants abx stopped. TYIA, Pepi

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Can someone tell me the difference between Igm and Igg on a Western Blot test

from Igenex?  I tested positive on the Igm for both igenex and CDC criteria but

only tested positive on the Igg igenex criteria...not the igg CDC criteria.

 Just wondering what this means...

Owner

Metro Dogs LLC

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IgM is a sign of a current infection.

IgG is a sign of a  past exposure to or past infection by the organism

michele, i copied this from a website for you..

Begley - Temporary Placement Manager

From: <michelledianecox@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Igg and Igm

Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 7:11 PM

Can someone tell me the difference between Igm and Igg on a Western Blot test

from Igenex?  I tested positive on the Igm for both igenex and CDC criteria but

only tested positive on the Igg igenex criteria...not the igg CDC criteria.

 Just wondering what this means...

Owner

Metro Dogs LLC

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That is good to know...because on my Lyme western blot test I had a lot of igg

and igm bands that showed up and was curious what the difference was.  Thanks!

Owner

Metro Dogs LLC

P/973.417.1380

F/201.435.1487

www.metrodogs.biz

Re: [ ] Igg and Igm

Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 7:11 PM

Can someone tell me the difference between Igm and Igg on a Western Blot test

from Igenex?  I tested positive on the Igm for both igenex and CDC criteria but

only tested positive on the Igg igenex criteria...not the igg CDC criteria.

 Just wondering what this means...

Owner

Metro Dogs LLC

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I believe that this is, in essence, true. But I wonder... if it's that cut and

dry why we don't have a test that can tell us if we WERE infected versus if we

ARE infected.

I never have been able to comprehend (maybe it's Lyme-brain?) why it's so bloody

hard to be able to test for current infection in a treated Lyme patient. I'd

have so many medical issues clearer if I just had that answer!

I'd always understood that one denotes acute infection, the other long term

infection...?

(OR)

>

> From: <michelledianecox@...>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Igg and Igm

>

> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 7:11 PM

>

>

>

> Can someone tell me the difference between Igm and Igg on a Western Blot test

from Igenex?  I tested positive on the Igm for both igenex and CDC criteria but

only tested positive on the Igg igenex criteria...not the igg CDC criteria.

 Just wondering what this means...

>

>

> Owner

> Metro Dogs LLC

>

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There are exceptions to every rule.

" IgM antibodies, when present in high numbers, represent a new active infection

or an existing infection that has become reactivated. "

" To recap, depending on the numbers,

IgM is a sign of a current infection.

IgG is a sign of a current infection, or of a past exposure to or past infection

by the organism. "

http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/wb.html

" Serological testing for Lyme disease usually consists of testing for the IgM

antibody which peaks between three to six weeks after the infection, and may

persist throughout the course of the disease and may remain elevated for years

after clinical remission. The IgG antibody will rise after the initial IgM

peak. "

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:PRWvsuaEBQIJ:www.cambridgebiomedical.com/pdf\

s/TB050%2520Burgdorferi%2520IgG%2520IgM%2520Antibodies%252008-05-07.pdf+Igm+%26+\

Igg+%26+lyme & cd=29 & hl=en & ct=clnk & gl=us

It can get very confusing. Having IgM antibodies does not necessarily mean a

current infection. Likewise IgG can also mean a current infection.

It is not black and white. I have had Lyme disease for 35 years and still have

positive IgM antibodies. I have now chronic arthritic Lyme disease due to being

undiagnosed for so many years. Every joint in my body in affected.

V

>

>

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> From: <michelledianecox@...>

>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Igg and Igm

>

>

>

> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 7:11 PM

>

>

>

> Can someone tell me the difference between Igm and Igg on a Western Blot test

from Igenex?  I tested positive on the Igm for both igenex and CDC criteria but

only tested positive on the Igg igenex criteria...not the igg CDC criteria.

 Just wondering what this means...

>

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> Owner

>

> Metro Dogs LLC

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One word greed.

There is a band that is 100% indicator of Lyme. But due to the IDSA members

having rights in proposed vaccinations that target this band they have

gotten it removed as an indicator. Its sickening.

> [ ] Re: Igg and Igm

>

> I believe that this is, in essence, true. But I wonder... if

> it's that cut and dry why we don't have a test that can tell

> us if we WERE infected versus if we ARE infected.

>

> I never have been able to comprehend (maybe it's Lyme-brain?)

> why it's so bloody hard to be able to test for current

> infection in a treated Lyme patient. I'd have so many medical

> issues clearer if I just had that answer!

>

> I'd always understood that one denotes acute infection, the

> other long term infection...?

>

> (OR)

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I just wanted to post few things about IGg's and IGm's that I learned.

First for the " normal " understanding of these:

Igm antibody's are short-term and appear within a few weeks after being

exposed to some antigen

(bacteria, protein, etc)

After this, the Iggs appear. They have a much longer half-life in the

body and the body will keep

producing them which is how you build immunity. The body usually does not

continue to generate Igm's after the initial infection. Even while you

are still infected.

As I said above, this is the " normal " way the body works. There seems

to be evidence that in long term

lyme infections the Igg bands will disappear completely over time

(years), and Igm's will sometimes be present.

The Igenics lab site has some information on this.

http://www.igenex.com/lymeset2.htm If you google

lyme igm, you can find other references.

dave

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Which band is the 100% indicator of Lyme?

Sent from my iPhone

On 6-May-09, at 10:27 AM, " " <msadams@...> wrote:

>

>

> One word greed.

>

> There is a band that is 100% indicator of Lyme. But due to the IDSA

> members

> having rights in proposed vaccinations that target this band they have

> gotten it removed as an indicator. Its sickening.

>

> > [ ] Re: Igg and Igm

> >

> > I believe that this is, in essence, true. But I wonder... if

> > it's that cut and dry why we don't have a test that can tell

> > us if we WERE infected versus if we ARE infected.

> >

> > I never have been able to comprehend (maybe it's Lyme-brain?)

> > why it's so bloody hard to be able to test for current

> > infection in a treated Lyme patient. I'd have so many medical

> > issues clearer if I just had that answer!

> >

> > I'd always understood that one denotes acute infection, the

> > other long term infection...?

> >

> > (OR)

>

>

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Can you please tell me what band is the 100% indicator of Lyme?

Owner

RE: [ ] Igg and Igm

One word greed.

There is a band that is 100% indicator of Lyme. But due to the IDSA members

having rights in proposed vaccinations that target this band they have

gotten it removed as an indicator. Its sickening.

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From

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/lyme-disease-support-forums/general-support

/154688-any1-have-1-band-pos-wb-then-igenix-more-band-

See the bold section below..

====================================================================

Here is the website for Igenex to help understand what the western blot

means: http://www.igenex.com/lymeopt2.htm

As has been mentioned, 41+ is non-specific for lyme but only testing

positive for that band on most lyme tests does not rule anything in or out.

The following are the bands are described by Igenex as somewhat-specific

Lyme antibodies of importance in the IgG test:

23-25 kDa (Osp C); 31 kDa (Osp A); 34 kDa (Osp ; 39 kDa; 41 kDa; and 83-93

kDa7. ( " kDa " is used for molecular weight designations and " Osp " refers to

outer surface protein of the bacteria.)

For the IgM test, the CDC criteria for a positive result are two of the

following three bands: 23-25 kDa (Osp C); 39 kDa; and/or 41 kDa.8,9 IGeneX

adds the 31 kDa (Osp A), and/or the 34 kDa (Osp which were removed when

there was an effort to create a vaccine for Lyme as these were the proteins

that were used to try to create the vaccine.

Looking at a test of mine from last year, Igenex reported on the following

bands: 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 39, 41, 45, 58, 66, 73, 83 - 93. When

you receive the results, the " important " bands are double starred (I've seen

a lot of these things!) which are the ones I mentioned above.

It's always important to remember, though, that lyme should be a clinical

diagnosis, not just the result of a seropositive test.

Hope this isn't too much information at once.

======================================================

More on testing...

http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano_0905.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/western-blot.txt

> RE: [ ] Igg and Igm

>

> One word greed.

>

>

>

> There is a band that is 100% indicator of Lyme. But due to

> the IDSA members

>

> having rights in proposed vaccinations that target this band

> they have

>

> gotten it removed as an indicator. Its sickening.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> For free up to date information about Lyme disease and the known

> co-infections delivered to your email address see:

> Robynns_Lyme_List/

>

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