fish oil

[Guest guest]

Hi All, I guess that the abstract at the bottom of the below quashes that

argument. The fish eaten whole was even better than the oil in fighting

prostate cancer it seems. Moreover, it is the metastatic cancer that kills

you. That is some risk reduction for > 3 fish servings/week. Almost half

the risk for metastatic cancer. It is impressive. Multivariate adjusted and

a prospective study it was also.

Cheers, Al.

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:13:48 -0600

From: jwwright <jwwright@...>

excess beta-carotene and prostate cancer.

----- Original Message ----- " Tim Tyler " <tim@...>

Subject: [CR] Fish oil

> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:12:29 -0800, nqb8nspr8shn@... wrote:

>

> >I had to give up EPA/DHA fishoil supplements due to MR's rather

> >convincing Albatross... I still eat salmon once a week though...

>

> Reading that I can't see any condemnation of fish oil. Also, someone

> else was claiming DHA to be undesirable here recently.

>

> Anyone want to offer whatever dirt they have on fish oil? It looks

> to me like many of the benefits of the fish - without much mercury risk.

>

> I can see lots of Vitamin A might not be entirely desirable - anyone know

> what other potential problems there are?

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2003 Jan;12(1):64-7

A prospective study of intake of fish and marine fatty acids and prostate

cancer.

Augustsson K, Michaud DS, Rimm EB, Leitzmann MF, Stampfer MJ, Willett WC,

Giovannucci E.

Experimental studies suggest that marine fatty acids have an antitumor effect on

prostate tumor

cells. The aim of this study was to investigate whether high consumption of fish

and marine fatty

acids reduces the risk of prostate cancer in humans. We followed 47882 men

participating in the

Health Professionals Follow-up Study. Dietary intake was assessed in 1986, 1990,

and 1994,

using a validated food frequency questionnaire. During 12 years of follow-up,

2482 cases of

prostate cancer were diagnosed, of which 617 were diagnosed as advanced prostate

cancer

including 278 metastatic prostate cancers. Eating fish more than three times per

week was

associated with a reduced risk of prostate cancer, and the strongest association

was for

metastatic cancer (multivariate relative risk, 0.56; 95% confidence interval,

0.37-0.86, compared

with infrequent consumption, i.e., less than twice per month). Intake of marine

fatty acids from

food showed a similar but weaker association. Each additional daily intake of

0.5 g of marine

fatty acid from food was associated with a 24% decreased risk of metastatic

cancer. We found

that men with high consumption of fish had a lower risk of prostate cancer,

especially for

metastatic cancer. Marine fatty acids may account for part of the effect, but

other factors in fish

may also play a role.

PMID: 12540506 [PubMed - in process]

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Based on JW's earlier post which contained numerous studies on the

issue, fish oil is excellent in many respects, but, like almost

anything else, you do not want too much of it:

A) Because of the possibility of peroxidation of your mitochrondial

membranes (so tells us), and

Because, like any other oil, fish oil contains lots of calories.

Some people think one can benefit by reducing caloric intake ; ^ )))

So, perhaps best to eat some fish daily, and forget the supplements?

And logic suggests that ALA is a dumb way to get your DHA and EPA

because you have to eat a ton of it to get the amount of DHA etc.

that you want by conversion. Somewhere I read that only 5% of ALA

gets converted. If that is accurate then the rest just ends up as

empty calories.

Rodney.

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Now you tell me. What do I do with all this FO? {Well there is the

neighbors cat, but she's already crazy (dodging rocks)(ha).}

> But why would we think certain pufa's are so much more perox than

others, like ALA? and then epa/dha made from it? I recall MR saying

that excess of n-3 gets used for energy - why not FO?

>

> Regards.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Dowling

>

> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:09 AM

> Subject: RE: [ ] Fish Oil (was: Fat Guru Udo

Erasmus' take on ALA, etc.and Prostate CA)

>

>

> So you are not concerned about increasing the peroxidation of

your inner

> mitochondrial membranes?

>

>

> >From: " loganruns73 " <loganruns73@y...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: [ ] Fish Oil (was: Fat Guru Udo Erasmus'

take on ALA,

> >etc.and Prostate CA)

> >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:54:41 -0000

> >

> >This fish oil is the most concentrated available (84%):

> >

> >http://store./iherb/twinepa.html

> >

> >I had a problem assimilating 3 pills of this fish oil (it was

passing

> >out undigested), so I tried Krill Oil which is allegedly more

bio-

> >available but the small dose (2 pills per day the first month, 1

per

> >day thereafter for equivalent fish oil benefits [PMID:

12777162]) and

> >the lack of comparison studies to normal, high-dose fish oil

left me

> >uncertain of acquiring the specific health benefits from DHA.

So I

> >compromised by taking:

> >

> >http://store./iherb/dha2.html

> >

> >...which allows 4 tiny pills to get the 1 gram of DHA necessary

for

> >its benefits, along with EPA. DHA seems to have more health

efficacy

> >than EPA, so I feel it is more a priority than EPA, especially

for

> >protecting the brain, etc..

> >

> >This supplement is also interesting in terms of allegedly better

bio-

> >availability, but it virtually lacks EPA:

> >

> >http://store./iherb/dha.html

> >

> >The whole assimilation issue of fish oil really bugs me. It

seems

> >like most of it goes to waste, which is why such high-doses are

> >needed in studies.

> >

> >Logan

[Guest guest]

Good idea. I'm always in favor of eating the food instead of expressed oils

whenever possible. Consider how these oils are derived -- heat, chemical

extraction, exposure to light, plasticizers in at least some packages, etc.

And then there's the actual damage inflicted during some forms of

preparation (frying). I'm with Satchel Paige on this one-- " Avoid fried

meats which angry up the blood. " He probably would have included fish if he

thought about it. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Satchel_Paige

For the more serious minded, here's a scholarly paper that seems to cover

much of the omega-3 waterfront:

Kris-Etherton PM, WS, Appel LJ;

" Fish consumption, fish oil, omega-3 fatty acids, and cardiovascular

disease "

Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2003 Feb 1;23(2):e20-30. Review. No abstract

available. Erratum in: Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2003 Feb 1;23(2):e31..

PMID: 12588785

The full text itself is available at:

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/23/2/e20#TBL2

Of course, for those who want to worry about something --anything -- there

is the issue of mercury.

From the Horse's mouth:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/304_fish.html

On the same topic, here are some other interesting pieces or articles,

valuable for general info on omega 3. They mention or deal more fully with

the mercury issue.http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/106/21/2747.pdf

http://www.cce.cornell.edu/food/fdharchives/111202/AHAfish.html

http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/med/mercury.htm

Me? I stick with sardines. They're cheap, add a nice touch to the huge daily

salad I prepare. They are low on the food chain, so they probably are not

yet tainted by our wanton pollution.

-----Original Message-----

From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...]

Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:59 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Fish Oil

Hi folks:

Based on JW's earlier post which contained numerous studies on the

issue, fish oil is excellent in many respects, but, like almost

anything else, you do not want too much of it:

A) Because of the possibility of peroxidation of your mitochrondial

membranes (so tells us), and

Because, like any other oil, fish oil contains lots of calories.

Some people think one can benefit by reducing caloric intake ; ^ )))

So, perhaps best to eat some fish daily, and forget the supplements?

And logic suggests that ALA is a dumb way to get your DHA and EPA

because you have to eat a ton of it to get the amount of DHA etc.

that you want by conversion. Somewhere I read that only 5% of ALA

gets converted. If that is accurate then the rest just ends up as

empty calories.

Rodney.

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Now you tell me. What do I do with all this FO? {Well there is the

neighbors cat, but she's already crazy (dodging rocks)(ha).}

> But why would we think certain pufa's are so much more perox than

others, like ALA? and then epa/dha made from it? I recall MR saying

that excess of n-3 gets used for energy - why not FO?

>

> Regards.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Dowling

>

> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:09 AM

> Subject: RE: [ ] Fish Oil (was: Fat Guru Udo

Erasmus' take on ALA, etc.and Prostate CA)

>

>

> So you are not concerned about increasing the peroxidation of

your inner

> mitochondrial membranes?

>

>

> >From: " loganruns73 " <loganruns73@y...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: [ ] Fish Oil (was: Fat Guru Udo Erasmus'

take on ALA,

> >etc.and Prostate CA)

> >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:54:41 -0000

> >

> >This fish oil is the most concentrated available (84%):

> >

> >http://store./iherb/twinepa.html

> >

> >I had a problem assimilating 3 pills of this fish oil (it was

passing

> >out undigested), so I tried Krill Oil which is allegedly more

bio-

> >available but the small dose (2 pills per day the first month, 1

per

> >day thereafter for equivalent fish oil benefits [PMID:

12777162]) and

> >the lack of comparison studies to normal, high-dose fish oil

left me

> >uncertain of acquiring the specific health benefits from DHA.

So I

> >compromised by taking:

> >

> >http://store./iherb/dha2.html

> >

> >...which allows 4 tiny pills to get the 1 gram of DHA necessary

for

> >its benefits, along with EPA. DHA seems to have more health

efficacy

> >than EPA, so I feel it is more a priority than EPA, especially

for

> >protecting the brain, etc..

> >

> >This supplement is also interesting in terms of allegedly better

bio-

> >availability, but it virtually lacks EPA:

> >

> >http://store./iherb/dha.html

> >

> >The whole assimilation issue of fish oil really bugs me. It

seems

> >like most of it goes to waste, which is why such high-doses are

> >needed in studies.

> >

> >Logan

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney,

The reason I would prefer FO to fish is that fish contains at least, some ARA, tyramines, and whatever those things are that effect gout, and some mercury. The other thing is I believe is that canned fish has very little epa/dha because I can't see how it survives the canning process. Another thing is the fatty acids we want are in the skin. Cooking alters the PUFAs, so I deduce I need to eat fish skin raw. (give the fish to the cat).

However, my 80yo bro is getting along nicely considering his CHF/irregular heartbeat on 2-3 oz per day of poached fresh salmon (probably farmed) PLUS 7 medications.

Admittedly the fish may have more benefits than the fatty acids.

I'm only using FO as a test to see the effect on BP. 4 grams is not that many calories. But getting 4 grams of EPA (per article) to effect BP would be like 22 grams - 200 kcals - I think not. I don't even believe voodoo that much.

If 4 caps can't alter BP, I suspect it's not an eicosanoid thing. I think mine's a gout thing anyway.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:58 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Fish Oil

Hi folks:Based on JW's earlier post which contained numerous studies on the issue, fish oil is excellent in many respects, but, like almost anything else, you do not want too much of it:A) Because of the possibility of peroxidation of your mitochrondial membranes (so tells us), andB) Because, like any other oil, fish oil contains lots of calories. Some people think one can benefit by reducing caloric intake ; ^ )))So, perhaps best to eat some fish daily, and forget the supplements?And logic suggests that ALA is a dumb way to get your DHA and EPA because you have to eat a ton of it to get the amount of DHA etc. that you want by conversion. Somewhere I read that only 5% of ALA gets converted. If that is accurate then the rest just ends up as empty calories. Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Can you eat salmon?

I eat salmon and canned sardines to get my omega 3's

and good fish oil.

---

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

yes, and she does eat it some. She loves tuna but we

avoid too much because of the mercury. Thank you!

--- denise milfort <mllebondgirl007@...> wrote:

> Can you eat salmon?

> I eat salmon and canned sardines to get my omega 3's

> and good fish oil.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Salmon has the omega 3 fatty acids not tuna.

So she should eat more salmon.

I'll eat it everyday for 3 days before a shoot or any

other job and it does wonders for my skin.

Also for omega 3 fatty acids I like hemp seeds.

Nutiva has great organic hemp seeds.

Here's a link

http://nutiva.com/

They taste great in just about anything.

Best of luck!

--- Hurt By_meds <hurt_by_meds@...> wrote:

> yes, and she does eat it some. She loves tuna but

> we

> avoid too much because of the mercury. Thank you!

>

> --- denise milfort <mllebondgirl007@...>

> wrote:

> > Can you eat salmon?

> > I eat salmon and canned sardines to get my omega

> 3's

> > and good fish oil.

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I went to a health food store last week and bought a bottle of-

Norwegian Cod Liver Oil. I've been taking a tablespoon in the morning

and a tablespoon at night(it's not real oily and has a lemon flavoring

added). After only 1 week, I have noticed a difference in my joints in

that they are moving better and my pain HAS decreased.

Anyone else taking liquid fish oil? Any good results?

[Guest guest]

renita-please be careful with the fish oil...my mom was on it and developed

irregular heart rhythm on it....in some people, it can cause

palpitations....sherri

Stay strong and healthy

>From: " Renita " <ramyst66@...>

>Reply-Rheumatoid Arthritis

>Rheumatoid Arthritis

>Subject: fish oil

>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:33:55 -0000

>

>I went to a health food store last week and bought a bottle of-

>Norwegian Cod Liver Oil. I've been taking a tablespoon in the morning

>and a tablespoon at night(it's not real oily and has a lemon flavoring

>added). After only 1 week, I have noticed a difference in my joints in

>that they are moving better and my pain HAS decreased.

> Anyone else taking liquid fish oil? Any good results?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jeff,

I use Cod Liver Oil, 1/2 tsp for the plain liquid (CVS), primarily for DHA.

I've wondered what the tolerance (really) is for Vit A, but recently a study

in Iceland showed some olders were taking a tablespoon, without ill effects.

The ARMD supplement (AREDS) is high in Vit A.

Do you have a rec?

Regards

[ ] Fish Oil

There have been past discussions on which is the best brand and/or

highest quality fish oil.

Consumer Labs just tested over 50 products, ranging from high profile

brands like Nordic Naturals and Omega Brite to generic brands like

Costco, BJs, and CVS.

All products passed the testing and showed that all were fresh and

contained their claimed amounts of EPA and DHA -- key omega-3 fatty

acids . None of the products were found to contain detectable levels of

mercury [over 10 ppb (parts per billion) ]. In addition, none of the

products contained unsafe levels of lead or PCBs. Several of the

products were additionally tested for dioxins, which can be found in

some fish. However, none of these supplements contained unsafe levels of

dioxins. None of the products showed signs of spoilage

Something to think about when recommending (or ingesting) a product.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Hi JW

I dont have any recommendation in general, and as this recent review

showed, it may not be that important which one we pick as they all did

well on the tests. The concern with Cod Liver Oil is the Vit A content,

so that may be a concern in one sense, but may have some benefit in

regard to ARMD.

Personally, I like to target things individually and take just what is

needed (if needed) and not " formulas " .

Regards

Jeff

jwwright wrote:

>

> Thanks Jeff,

> I use Cod Liver Oil, 1/2 tsp for the plain liquid (CVS), primarily for

> DHA.

> I've wondered what the tolerance (really) is for Vit A, but recently a

> study

> in Iceland showed some olders were taking a tablespoon, without ill

> effects.

> The ARMD supplement (AREDS) is high in Vit A.

>

> Do you have a rec?

>

> Regards

>

> [ ] Fish Oil

>

> There have been past discussions on which is the best brand and/or

> highest quality fish oil.

>

> Consumer Labs just tested over 50 products, ranging from high profile

> brands like Nordic Naturals and Omega Brite to generic brands like

> Costco, BJs, and CVS.

>

> All products passed the testing and showed that all were fresh and

> contained their claimed amounts of EPA and DHA -- key omega-3 fatty

> acids . None of the products were found to contain detectable levels of

> mercury [over 10 ppb (parts per billion) ]. In addition, none of the

> products contained unsafe levels of lead or PCBs. Several of the

> products were additionally tested for dioxins, which can be found in

> some fish. However, none of these supplements contained unsafe levels of

> dioxins. None of the products showed signs of spoilage

>

> Something to think about when recommending (or ingesting) a product.

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

>