Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Jodi: I believe that prolotherapy was instrumental in fixing my knee. A few things to remember though: 1) Despite being diagnosed with CP, I don't think I ever had it. I don't think my patellar cartilage was damaged at all. 2) Prolotherapy by itself cannot repair damaged cartilage, although my doc (who does prolo) also injects growth hormone into the knee capsule to stimulate cartilage growth on the patella. The pioneer in this area is Dr. Dunn in Florida. http://www.iagh.com 3) Apparently not all docs who provide prolotherapy are as talented as the doc I was lucky enough to stumble upon. Primarily, you need to find a doc who can figure out what weak structures you have so they can be strengthened. 4) Prolotherapy can be helpful if you have weak or damaged ligaments and tendons. It is not, by any means, a cure for all your ills. HTH, Doug > Has anybody tried this for CP?? Any success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Which tendons/ligaments did you have prolo'd? How were they causing your knee pain? Ann Re: Prolotherapy? Jodi: I believe that prolotherapy was instrumental in fixing my knee. A few things to remember though: 1) Despite being diagnosed with CP, I don't think I ever had it. I don't think my patellar cartilage was damaged at all. 2) Prolotherapy by itself cannot repair damaged cartilage, although my doc (who does prolo) also injects growth hormone into the knee capsule to stimulate cartilage growth on the patella. The pioneer in this area is Dr. Dunn in Florida. http://www.iagh.com 3) Apparently not all docs who provide prolotherapy are as talented as the doc I was lucky enough to stumble upon. Primarily, you need to find a doc who can figure out what weak structures you have so they can be strengthened. 4) Prolotherapy can be helpful if you have weak or damaged ligaments and tendons. It is not, by any means, a cure for all your ills. HTH, Doug > Has anybody tried this for CP?? Any success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Hi Ann: My knee was lax, or loose -- there was some " give " if you pushed the knee left or right with the leg out straight and the foot held still. This was most likely the result of my leg-length discrepancy, which, in turn, was the result of my hips being out of alignment. After the hips were aligned and my legs were back to equal length, my doc injected the following structures with a proliferant (prolotherapy solution): 1) The attachment of the VMO to the patella (which was where most of my pain was) 2) The medial and lateral collateral ligaments (LCL & MCL) 3) The patellar tendon (it is really a ligament) 4) The lateral coronary ligament 5) The attachment of the iliotibial band to the knee/tibia 6) The attachment of the pes anserinus to the knee I went back 6 or 7 times (I forget exactly) for additional rounds of injections. Each time he injected all or most of those structures, except for the last 2 or 3 sessions where he just did the VMO and the lateral coronary ligament, because I still had some pain in those areas. Basically the goal was to " tighten up " the entire joint. This was accomplished and my pain never returned. I also noticed a decrease in crepitus (cracking in the joint) and my knee no longer " popped " when I twisted it in a certain way, which used to happen all the time before the prolo. We (Dr. Cohen, (the PT who works w/ Cohen) and I) think that the VMO attachment was the primary source of my pain, not the patellar cartilage as I was told by two other docs. By tightening up the supporting structures of the knee and repairing the damaged tendon, my pain went away. According to Dr. Cohen, he can fix most of the bad knees out there (even the ones with damaged cartilage) by correcting anatomical problems (like my hips), tightening certain structures, increasing flexibility in others, removing trigger points and improving the overall biomechanics of the knee. After my experiences with him, I certainly wouldn't bet against him. Apologies if I sound like a Dr. Cohen advertisement, but I was really impressed by him. HTH, Doug dougfromct2002@... > > > Has anybody tried this for CP?? Any success? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Well, I am most impressed. Wish I was somewhere near your Dr. Cohen!! Sounds like he knows how the knee works. I suspect my Q angle is exaggerated (me being a woman and all, and, despite my last post, I think I do overpronate). I wonder if I DO have one leg longer than the other, too, since I've gotten so many different opinions. Seems like they could just X-ray both legs side by side but the last doc who told me that one leg was longer said that they got a more accurate reading by essentially water-witching for the high points of the pelvis and eyeballing, from an above angle no less, whether they were in a horizontal line. Where are you? I probably asked you this before, but I'm on so many lists ... Ann Re: Prolotherapy? Hi Ann: My knee was lax, or loose -- there was some " give " if you pushed the knee left or right with the leg out straight and the foot held still. This was most likely the result of my leg-length discrepancy, which, in turn, was the result of my hips being out of alignment. After the hips were aligned and my legs were back to equal length, my doc injected the following structures with a proliferant (prolotherapy solution): 1) The attachment of the VMO to the patella (which was where most of my pain was) 2) The medial and lateral collateral ligaments (LCL & MCL) 3) The patellar tendon (it is really a ligament) 4) The lateral coronary ligament 5) The attachment of the iliotibial band to the knee/tibia 6) The attachment of the pes anserinus to the knee I went back 6 or 7 times (I forget exactly) for additional rounds of injections. Each time he injected all or most of those structures, except for the last 2 or 3 sessions where he just did the VMO and the lateral coronary ligament, because I still had some pain in those areas. Basically the goal was to " tighten up " the entire joint. This was accomplished and my pain never returned. I also noticed a decrease in crepitus (cracking in the joint) and my knee no longer " popped " when I twisted it in a certain way, which used to happen all the time before the prolo. We (Dr. Cohen, (the PT who works w/ Cohen) and I) think that the VMO attachment was the primary source of my pain, not the patellar cartilage as I was told by two other docs. By tightening up the supporting structures of the knee and repairing the damaged tendon, my pain went away. According to Dr. Cohen, he can fix most of the bad knees out there (even the ones with damaged cartilage) by correcting anatomical problems (like my hips), tightening certain structures, increasing flexibility in others, removing trigger points and improving the overall biomechanics of the knee. After my experiences with him, I certainly wouldn't bet against him. Apologies if I sound like a Dr. Cohen advertisement, but I was really impressed by him. HTH, Doug dougfromct2002@... > > > Has anybody tried this for CP?? Any success? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Ann: To check my legs, Dr. Cohen did this: - I laid flat on my back on his table - I bent my legs and put my feet down flat on the table - I lifted my pelvis off the table and then lowered it down - I extended my legs out straight - Dr. Cohen held my feet together and could see that the left was about a half-inch longer then the right To verify, I stood up and he put his fingers on the hip bones on my lower back, right below the beltline. You should be able to feel your own, while standing, about 2 inches to either side of the spine. I then lifted one foot at a time, alternating left and right, shifting my weight from one foot to the other. You can really feel your hip bones shift. (the PT) by feeling my bones during this shifting, was able to tell immediately and conclusively that the left side of my hips were rotated forward, and the right side backward, creating the leg-length discrepancy. She fixed it in about 5 mintues with a chiropractic-type adjustment and gave me some exercises to do every day to ensure that the hips don't fall back out of alignment. That night when I went home, when I got into bed and put my feet together (I wasn't even thinking about my hips, feet or legs), the bones on the inside of my feet smacked into each other, which they hadn't done for years. Pretty cool, eh? Anyway, it has been over a year and I'm still doing well. Hope you can find someone who can really figure out your various biomechanical / anatomical issues. There's got to be somebody near you who can give you a definitive diagnosis. Don't get discouraged! - Doug P.S. - I live in Connecticut, work in New York City. > Well, I am most impressed. Wish I was somewhere near your Dr. Cohen!! Sounds like he knows how the knee works. I suspect my Q angle is exaggerated (me being a woman and all, and, despite my last post, I think I do overpronate). I wonder if I DO have one leg longer than the other, too, since I've gotten so many different opinions. Seems like they could just X-ray both legs side by side but the last doc who told me that one leg was longer said that they got a more accurate reading by essentially water-witching for the high points of the pelvis and eyeballing, from an above angle no less, whether they were in a horizontal line. > > Where are you? I probably asked you this before, but I'm on so many lists ... > > Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 so can prolo help if you don't have any tendon or ligament problems, just laterally tracking kneecaps causing the CP?? > > Well, I am most impressed. Wish I was somewhere near your Dr. > Cohen!! Sounds like he knows how the knee works. I suspect my Q > angle is exaggerated (me being a woman and all, and, despite my last > post, I think I do overpronate). I wonder if I DO have one leg > longer than the other, too, since I've gotten so many different > opinions. Seems like they could just X-ray both legs side by side > but the last doc who told me that one leg was longer said that they > got a more accurate reading by essentially water-witching for the > high points of the pelvis and eyeballing, from an above angle no > less, whether they were in a horizontal line. > > > > Where are you? I probably asked you this before, but I'm on so > many lists ... > > > > Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 J: It all depends on why your patella is tracking laterally. If you look at the anatomy of the knee: http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus345.html you'll see that the patella is almost entirely surrounded, and held in place, by ligaments and tendons. In my opinion, it follows that loose ligaments and tendons could very well contribute to, or cause, poor patellar tracking. If this is the case, obviously prolotherapy could help. If your muscles are weak, then prolo will not directly help that. However, muscles with weak attachments can become weaker themselves, as a result of the development of trigger points, or knots, in the muscles. Repairing the weak tendons may help make strengthening the muscles easier. One more thing, if your patella is tracking poorly, odds are good you have some related, or semi-related, ligament and tendon problems too. As always, I'm not a doctor or anything even close, and this is all just me speculating. And my apologies if I sound like an advertisement for prolotherapy (I do this quite often!), but I believe it is a very valuable, and under-appreciated, method of treating and curing chronic joint pain. HTH, Doug dougfromct2002@... > so can prolo help if you don't have any tendon or ligament problems, > just laterally tracking kneecaps causing the CP?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes, I had prolotherapy on my hand. It did swell up after injection. It did not help me but I gave it a try. I don't think you need to worry. Actually I remember my hand throbbing afterwards and they gave me something for pain. ----- Original Message ----- From: snowdrift52003 Rheumatoid Arthritis Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: Prolotherapy? Hello,My mom has decided to see an M.D. who runs an "alternative care" clinic. He treats arthritis with something called prolotherapy, which consists of injections of an irritant in the joint area that cause the immune system to respond and supposedly heal the area. I e-mailed the doctor and asked if that was such a good idea for people with autoimmune disorders (my mom has RA) and he responded that he only does them when a person is not in an active flare. I'm concerned! Anyone know much about this? Sierra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 The main thing I'm concerned about is her wasting time and money on treatments that don't make sense for the illness she has. She has never seen a rheumy. S. > > Yes, I had prolotherapy on my hand. It did swell up after injection. It did not help me but I gave it a try. I don't think you need to worry. Actually I remember my hand throbbing afterwards and they gave me something for pain. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: snowdrift52003 > Rheumatoid Arthritis > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 7:46 PM > Subject: Prolotherapy? > > > Hello, > My mom has decided to see an M.D. who runs an " alternative care " > clinic. He treats arthritis with something called prolotherapy, which > consists of injections of an irritant in the joint area that cause the > immune system to respond and supposedly heal the area. I e-mailed the > doctor and asked if that was such a good idea for people with > autoimmune disorders (my mom has RA) and he responded that he only does > them when a person is not in an active flare. I'm concerned! Anyone > know much about this? > > Sierra > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 http://www.prolotherapy.com/ Looks okay Sierra. Goodluck. If you need more information on this, www.google.com. Deborah On 2/8/06, snowdrift52003 <snowdrift52003@...> wrote: Hello,My mom has decided to see an M.D. who runs an " alternative care " clinic. He treats arthritis with something called prolotherapy, which consists of injections of an irritant in the joint area that cause theimmune system to respond and supposedly heal the area. I e-mailed thedoctor and asked if that was such a good idea for people withautoimmune disorders (my mom has RA) and he responded that he only does them when a person is not in an active flare. I'm concerned! Anyoneknow much about this?Sierra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 What did you have done? And it worked? I was thinking maybe if I had the medial tissues shrunk or made stronger, it would keep my kneecap from being pulled laterally. Does this sound like a prolotherapy kinda thing? Thanks. Ann Re: Prolotherapy? Nina: Great post. Thanks for the info. Ann: I think you were referring to me... Ask away! - Doug > > > Who is it here who's so sold on prolo? I'd like to > > ask you some questions about it. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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