I am going off Lyme abx

[Guest guest]

Dear fellow Lyme Friends,

In October 1999 I was diagnosed with ALS. Since ALS is an always fatal

disease, I set about to fight the disease with hope against hope. While

cruising the internet, I found that several of the ALS patients had tested

positive for Lyme disease and were taking the Lyme abx protocol. I decided

that I had nothing to lose by being tested for Lyme, which I did at my own

expense.

In July of 2000, I tested positive for Lyme suing the LUAT test much to my

surprize. I also tested positive again two months later. I live in Arizona

and had no Lyme symptoms other than I had ALS...no rashes, no joint pain,

etc. I also had equivocol positive tests for Erlichia and Babesia. Of

course I was weak with the ALS. I met with a very good LLMD and went on

what I consider a well thought Lyme abx, which included Flagl, Amoxil,

Mephron, and Zithromax, the latter two for the Erlichia and Babesia.

After 31/2 months of taking the abx, my body continues to get weaker. I

have finally concluded, that despite testing positive for Lyme, that I don't

have anything that the abx can effectively kill. I never had a herx

reaction that I could determine. No one knows for sure what causes ALS, so

I felt I had nothing to lose by trying the abx.

I have since learned that most, if not all, ALS patients will test positive

for Lyme disease on one or more of the Lyme tests. Why....I don't know. I

think the Lyme tests are triggered by the ALS condition. ALS patients are

sluffing off nerve tissue as well as muscle tissue, which maybe cause a

false positive reading. Lyme patients should be aware that there may be

other conditions, including virual infections and certainly ALS, that can

result in false Lyme positive tests. If you have been taking abx for more

than a year and have seen no improvements in your symptoms, you may want to

consider that you don't have a Lyme infection.

I expecially want to thank Cheryl, Marta, and others for all their help thru

this discusion group.

Harry

[Guest guest]

Harry,

Thanks for your post.

I think it is very important for all of us to be aware of cases like yours.

Just like we should not MISS Lyme when we have it we should not SEE Lyme

everywhere (when it's not there).

I'm sorry the abx didn't improve you, and I truly hope that something will

be found for ALS in the very near future.

Nelly (in France)

[ ] I am going off Lyme abx

> Dear fellow Lyme Friends,

>

> In October 1999 I was diagnosed with ALS. Since ALS is an always fatal

> disease, I set about to fight the disease with hope against hope. While

> cruising the internet, I found that several of the ALS patients had tested

> positive for Lyme disease and were taking the Lyme abx protocol. I

decided

> that I had nothing to lose by being tested for Lyme, which I did at my own

> expense.

>

> In July of 2000, I tested positive for Lyme suing the LUAT test much to my

> surprize. I also tested positive again two months later. I live in

Arizona

> and had no Lyme symptoms other than I had ALS...no rashes, no joint pain,

> etc. I also had equivocol positive tests for Erlichia and Babesia. Of

> course I was weak with the ALS. I met with a very good LLMD and went on

> what I consider a well thought Lyme abx, which included Flagl, Amoxil,

> Mephron, and Zithromax, the latter two for the Erlichia and Babesia.

>

> After 31/2 months of taking the abx, my body continues to get weaker. I

> have finally concluded, that despite testing positive for Lyme, that I

don't

> have anything that the abx can effectively kill. I never had a herx

> reaction that I could determine. No one knows for sure what causes ALS,

so

> I felt I had nothing to lose by trying the abx.

>

> I have since learned that most, if not all, ALS patients will test

positive

> for Lyme disease on one or more of the Lyme tests. Why....I don't know.

I

> think the Lyme tests are triggered by the ALS condition. ALS patients are

> sluffing off nerve tissue as well as muscle tissue, which maybe cause a

> false positive reading. Lyme patients should be aware that there may be

> other conditions, including virual infections and certainly ALS, that can

> result in false Lyme positive tests. If you have been taking abx for more

> than a year and have seen no improvements in your symptoms, you may want

to

> consider that you don't have a Lyme infection.

>

> I expecially want to thank Cheryl, Marta, and others for all their help

thru

> this discusion group.

> Harry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

>

>

> Easy Reference:

> Send a blank email message to:

>

> -Unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list

> -Digestegroups - Switch your subscription to a digest format

> -Normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normal

>

> Please send messages not related to Lyme disease (this includes humor and

information about other diseases) to -Offtopicegroups

>

> Archives can be accessed at lyme-aid

>

> Please visit the sister site at

> http://clubs./clubs/lymeaid

> This is the primary chat site for .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Harry-

I cannot find your original post but let me give you some advice....

I am involved right now with 2 people in my town, both misdiagnosed with ALS.

One is a 71 yr old woman that has been left for dead at T-giving with " no

hope " in a nursing home. I had her tested for lyme by a LLMD and she is

improving. This diagnosis is now being reversed as " not ALS it seems but we

don't know what " . Antibiotics is the key.

You feel like there is no hope, no recovery??? WRONG!!!! I can help you but

if you could write me privately.

" I have finally concluded, that despite testing positive

for Lyme, that I don't have anything that the abx can

effectively kill ...

WRONG!!!!! WRONG!!!! Please write me!!!

sue in nj

Ssadlermas@...

[Guest guest]

Harry wrote:

In October 1999 I was diagnosed with ALS. Since ALS is

an always fatal disease, I set about to fight the disease

with hope against hope. While cruising the internet, I

found that several of the ALS patients had tested positive

for Lyme disease and were taking the Lyme abx protocol.

I decided that I had nothing to lose by being tested for

Lyme, which I did at my own expense.

In July of 2000, I tested positive for Lyme suing the LUAT

test much to my surprize. I also tested positive again

two months later ...

I have finally concluded, that despite testing positive

for Lyme, that I don't have anything that the abx can

effectively kill ...

Hi Harry,

If " testing positive for Lyme " refers to the results of a

Western Blot or ELISA, you have been seriously misled.

A person with Lyme will have a 50 - 50 chance of testing

positive on these tests, not 100% See

http://www.centurytel.net/tjs11/bug/blot1.htm

Because of the thousands of species of parasites that inhabit

our bodies, ascribing a particular immunoglobin band to one

particular parasite species such as Lyme is ludicrous.

Do not give up hope. Have you considered being tested for

human herpes virus 6? Anti-virals may work for you.

Jack

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/00 10:26:46 AM, rod@... writes:

<< What about Lyme specific bands? >>

What about them???

sue in nj

[Guest guest]

> If " testing positive for Lyme " refers to the results of a

> Western Blot or ELISA, you have been seriously misled.

> A person with Lyme will have a 50 - 50 chance of testing

> positive on these tests, not 100% See

> http://www.centurytel.net/tjs11/bug/blot1.htm

>

> Because of the thousands of species of parasites that inhabit

> our bodies, ascribing a particular immunoglobin band to one

> particular parasite species such as Lyme is ludicrous.

What about Lyme specific bands?

[Guest guest]

Jack wrote:

Because of the thousands of species of parasites that inhabit

our bodies, ascribing a particular immunoglobin band to one

particular parasite species such as Lyme is ludicrous.

Pepi wrote:

What about Lyme specific bands?

Hi Pepi,

Do such bands exist? Just because there is a strong IgG

band when a person has been clinically diagnosed with Lyme

does not mean that this band is a reaction to the Lyme

spirochete. If you know of some data (on the web) which

conslusively shows that Lyme " causes " a specific band, and

that no other organism can cause this band, please refer me

to the data.

After 7 months of heavy antibiotics, I have benefitted

remarkably. I never made any connection between Lyme and

the condition which disappeared (and maybe there isn't

any -- I try not to be misled by thinking " post hoc ergo

propter hoc. " ) But I also always try to play the odds.

I still consider myself asymptomatic, and I'm certainly not

sick (I swam a mile in 61 minutes yesterday). Examination

reveals that I have certain neurological conditions, e.g.

a weak grip, that are consistent with Lyme. However, my

diagnosis is primarily based on the direct tests for the

presence of the Lyme spirochete done at the Lab and

the Bowen Lab.

My results from Igenex were borderline; and, if that were

all the information I had, I would not conclude that I had Lyme.

So, my opinion is that tests for antibodies are about as useful

as weighing a postage stamp on a truck scales. There's nothing

like personal experience to influence one's opinions.

Of the 6 members of my family who tested positive with the

direct fluorescent antibody test for the Lyme spirochete, only

2 have obvious symptoms. They were very sick, and have been

restored to full functionality with continuing antibiotics.

My next move is to have a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test

done on myself for the presence of Lyme DNA. I will have a

fluorescent antibody test done at the same time to see if

there has been a change in the Lyme concentration in my blood

-- this could influence the PCR results since that test also

uses blood, not a tissue biopsy.

I have no idea how many asymptomatic Lyme carriers are

walking around, and this makes the ish correlation

(reported on this list} between Lyme disease and cancer

very scary. A friend of mine was diagnosed with Lyme 10

years ago (bull's eye rash) and given 3 weeks of antibiotics.

Since that time, he has been operated on for prostate cancer;

and his wife also has cancer.

The Lyme spirochete may be just one of many parasites that

are subtly inflicting severe chronic damage on us. It seems

to me that those who gain financially by controlling medical

costs would be acting in everyone's interest if they promoted

research into the microbial origin of chronic disease.

Jack

[Guest guest]

>

> What about Lyme specific bands?

>

> Hi Pepi,

>

> Do such bands exist? Just because there is a strong IgG

> band when a person has been clinically diagnosed with Lyme

> does not mean that this band is a reaction to the Lyme

> spirochete. If you know of some data (on the web) which

> conslusively shows that Lyme " causes " a specific band, and

> that no other organism can cause this band, please refer me

> to the data.

Jack, I would assume that you could either call or email IGENEX and they

would supply you with some info on bands. The CDC does recognize certain

bands to be Bb specific, waybe their site would have this info? Or possibly

check Arts site. Later on when I start my searching I will try and make it

a point to find this info for you. As of now I use my Lyme Books so I dont

have any sites with that info. Take care, Pepi

[Guest guest]

in my opinion the luat is one of the best test available now if it is done

the rite way .....but dr. harris from igenex admitted it is only 65% accurate

and we need a 95% accurate test...he did this while speaking at the symposuim

in gburg that lovette organized...

Reid

[Guest guest]

>

> Because of the thousands of species of parasites that inhabit

> our bodies, ascribing a particular immunoglobin band to one

> particular parasite species such as Lyme is ludicrous.

Ahhhhh I think I have figured this out, at least I think I have *-)

Humans have 5 types of Immunoglobulins, IgA, IgD, IdE,IgG and IgM. These

all combat different types of foreign invaders. If IgM shows up it is

generally a newer infection, as the levels peak at about 4 weeks then

decline. If IgG shows up it is considered an older infection. Now during a

Western Blot both IgG and IgM are tested. They take the blood sample and use

a detergent to pull out the Bb and break it into small pieces. It is then

placed on a gelatin-like strip and given a small electrical charge, causing

the Bb to seperate by weight. The resulting strip looks like the rungs on a

ladder or bands. Each band is then assigned a number with some of them being

Lyme Specific.

Sooooo its not immunoglobulins being thought of as Lyme specific, but

the bands of the Bb that are carried in the immunoglobulins. Follow? LOL

Hope you do cause I'm lost *-)

[Guest guest]

> OK, I'll bite: What's Bb?

The scientific name of the Lyme bacterium, Borrelia Burgdorferi-Bb

Sorry about that, its just easier to type

[Guest guest]

Pepi wrote:

Now during a Western Blot both IgG and IgM are tested. They

take the blood sample and use a detergent to pull out the

Bb and break it into small pieces.

Hi Pepi,

OK, I'll bite: What's Bb?

Jack

[Guest guest]

Pepi wrote:

Now during a Western Blot both IgG and IgM are tested. They

take the blood sample and use a detergent to pull out the

Bb and break it into small pieces.

Jack wrote:

OK, I'll bite: What's Bb?

Pepi wrote:

The scientific name of the Lyme bacterium, Borrelia Burgdorferi-Bb

Jack writes:

I thought that was what you meant, but I wanted to make sure before

commenting.

I've read that a fully grown Bb is about 30 microns long. It can be

stained and seen among red blood cells or embedded in neurons.

I'm very curious how Bb is extracted from a blood sample with a

detergent during the course of a Western Blot. Anyway, suppose

this is accomplished. The Bb spirochete can now be stained and seen

using a light microscope. WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE CONCERNED ABOUT

IMMUNOGLOBINS OR BANDS WHEN Bb FROM A BLOOD SAMPLE CAN BE DIRECTLY

OBSERVED? A direct identification of a Bb spirochete from the

blood sample is far superior to observing antibodies supposedly

evoked by the Bb.

Pepi wrote:

It is then placed on a gelatin-like strip and given

a small electrical charge, causing the Bb to seperate by weight.

Jack writes:

Staining the Bb and looking at it under a microscope would seem

to be a better approach. What is the Bb " separating " from

in the above step of the procedure?

Pepi wrote:

The resulting strip looks like the rungs on a ladder or

bands. Each band is then assigned a number with some of them

being Lyme Specific.

Sooooo its not immunoglobulins being thought of as Lyme

specific, but the bands of the Bb that are carried in

the immunoglobulins. Follow? LOL Hope you do cause I'm

lost *-)

Hi Pepi,

I have a feeling that the antibodies, not the Bb, are being

separated by weight. In fact, I get the impression that there

was no test for the presence of Bb in the blood sample other

than looking for bands of immunoglobin which were supposedly caused

by the Bb.

If this is the case, the Lyme spirochete is ASSUMED

to be present, and then certain bands are ASSUMED to be caused

by the presence of the Bb.

Without directly detemining the presence of Bb in blood

samples (staining, microscopy) and THEN determing the presence

of certain bands, there is no certainty that ANY bands observed

with a Western Blot are caused by Bb.

Has ny such calibration been done?

And we have not even begun to address the question

of whether or not these same bands could be caused by

some other microbe.

Given these circumstances, It would not be surprising

if a person who has been clinically diagnosed as having

Lyme would have a 50 - 50 chance of scoring positive on a

Western Blot test. Since the choice is either

" yes " (heads) or " no " (tails), the probabiltiy of a call being

correct is 50 - 50.

Why bother with the expense of a Western Blot test? Just

flip a coin. The flipper (and the lab) would be right half the time.

Jack

[Guest guest]

Well, taking a rather large sample of blood and then pulling only the Bb

out by detergent and then processing as in a Western Blot it alot easier

than staining the entire blood sample and hoping to find the Bb. Take a

dogs heartworm test, this is how they are found, by either a smear or stain

and they are easy to see as they are large and very common in the blood.

However Bb is not common in blood and is so very much smaller, it would be

tantamount to viewing the Mona one pixel at a time. They do test for

Bb in biopsies with a stain, but a blood sample it would be so very time

consuming.

As for the bands, there are Lyme specific ones, the CDC even recognizes

this. Pepi

[Guest guest]

Hi Harry!

Don't know how long you've been sick all together, but 31/2 months may not be

long enough to see results if this is LD and/ or babesia and

ehrlichia. With Mepron there can be a 3-6 week delay in its peak effect. What is

there to lose by going a little longer?

I am sorry for your troubles, and agree with your ideas about cross-reactivity

etc. Have you had any antiviral therapy? Your statement that we

do not know what causes Lou Gehrig's is accurate. I am not trying to engender

false hope, only to encourage you if your heart can hear this.

With you in the spirit.

Bea

Harry Gould wrote:

> Dear fellow Lyme Friends,

>

> In October 1999 I was diagnosed with ALS. Since ALS is an always fatal

> disease, I set about to fight the disease with hope against hope. While

> cruising the internet, I found that several of the ALS patients had tested

> positive for Lyme disease and were taking the Lyme abx protocol. I decided

> that I had nothing to lose by being tested for Lyme, which I did at my own

> expense.

>

> In July of 2000, I tested positive for Lyme suing the LUAT test much to my

> surprize. I also tested positive again two months later. I live in Arizona

> and had no Lyme symptoms other than I had ALS...no rashes, no joint pain,

> etc. I also had equivocol positive tests for Erlichia and Babesia. Of

> course I was weak with the ALS. I met with a very good LLMD and went on

> what I consider a well thought Lyme abx, which included Flagl, Amoxil,

> Mephron, and Zithromax, the latter two for the Erlichia and Babesia.

>

> After 31/2 months of taking the abx, my body continues to get weaker. I

> have finally concluded, that despite testing positive for Lyme, that I don't

> have anything that the abx can effectively kill. I never had a herx

> reaction that I could determine. No one knows for sure what causes ALS, so

> I felt I had nothing to lose by trying the abx.

>

> I have since learned that most, if not all, ALS patients will test positive

> for Lyme disease on one or more of the Lyme tests. Why....I don't know. I

> think the Lyme tests are triggered by the ALS condition. ALS patients are

> sluffing off nerve tissue as well as muscle tissue, which maybe cause a

> false positive reading. Lyme patients should be aware that there may be

> other conditions, including virual infections and certainly ALS, that can

> result in false Lyme positive tests. If you have been taking abx for more

> than a year and have seen no improvements in your symptoms, you may want to

> consider that you don't have a Lyme infection.

>

> I expecially want to thank Cheryl, Marta, and others for all their help thru

> this discusion group.

> Harry

>

>

> HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

>

> Easy Reference:

> Send a blank email message to:

>

> -Unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list

> -Digestegroups - Switch your subscription to a digest format

> -Normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normal

>

> Please send messages not related to Lyme disease (this includes humor and

information about other diseases) to -Offtopicegroups

>

> Archives can be accessed at lyme-aid

>

> Please visit the sister site at

> http://clubs./clubs/lymeaid

> This is the primary chat site for .

[Guest guest]

-

Please write me privately, I have some wonderful, loving lymies that live

where you are that I am sure can help. Also, I would like to pass on info

about treatment. People here have done the bee therapy, not much help. I also

have 2 teenagers with lyme (out of 6 kids and many of my neighbors have kids

w/ lyme. Two boys a few houses down were so bad w/ lyme they were having

seizures and missed over a yr of school. They are now doing great. I will

share.

sue in nj

[Guest guest]

good luck harry and god bless you i lerk in the back reading here and there

you have broke my heart i have been on lyme antibiotic therapy for 2 1/2

years i am not better i am going to try for another type of care as soon as

i decided to go off the therapy i saw a program on the tv i want to try

honey bee venom my childen have lyme also a mother out to save her kids i

will do anything for my babies who are now teen and are now getting the

joint pain... what ta great mom i am to give my kids this horrifying disease

with little help out there....but... i will not give up..no way..no

how...there is something that will save my kids...the good LORD knows i will

find it too.good luck and GOD BLESS YOU HArry..

cindy in mi

>From: " Harry Gould " <hjgould@...>

>Reply- egroups

>< egroups>

>Subject: [ ] I am going off Lyme abx

>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:19:10 -0700

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Please tell me what your 2 neighbors took and for how long. My grandson has

Lyme and his grades have dropped drasticly. Thank you.

Rita B

atthelake@...

[Guest guest]

What I have done for my son and my neighbors have done is similar. We all had

the kids on Suprax, 1 pill, 2x/day. There are 4 of us here on my block that

have kids with chronic lyme...... we all own a rife machine too (each

individually) and have had the kids do that too (as well as us). Some of the

kids came up positive with the co-infections, babesiosis--in which some took

Mepron, some did the Artemesia, some Artemesia and Bactrim and of course,

doxy for ehrlichiosis. We all also found out all about " 504 " plan, or some

call it " EIP " in which the kids are classified, nobody has to know about it,

they are not excused for special classes. What it is is that these kids get

special consideration when it comes to school work, extra time on tests, if

not well that day-- 'real lymie', they can be excused from the test,

absenteeism, get extra time, etc. Pat , Pres. of the LDAssoc of NJ

helped me to implement this in my school, which was a real fight. She also

did the in-service that is law. I have a list of alternative remedies that we

did too. Here they are.....

Here are some suggestions that we do to feel better--

1. olive leaf extract- natural antibiotic, anti-viral (wards off colds) and

anti-fungal (yeast). Look for at least " 17-23% pure " .

2. colostrum- super immune builder, made from bovine cows' pre-milk,

excellent also for loosing weight!!!

3. colloidal silver- mixture of silver metal particles in a liquid solution

that supposedly is a natural antibiotic, an immune system booster and a

natural healing property that can relieve pain and suppress the lyme

spirochete.

4. grape seed extract- excellent super anti-oxident, aids in fighting the

free radicals.

5. CoQ10- again an anti-oxident, helps generate energy. Great for heart,

liver and kidney free radical damage.

6. Molybdenum- a trace mineral which aids in ridding the body of yeast and

bacterial die-off from the Herxes.

7. Calcium/magnesium- for bones, and magnesium is to help counteract

twitches, muscle spasms, cramps and general weakness.

8. acidopholius-- A MUST with anybody that is taking antibiotics. The

antibiotics kill ALL the bacteria in the intestinal tract, the acidopholius

puts back the " good " bacteria. If one does not take it, you will suffer with

yeast infections!!!!!

9. B and C vitamins as well as a good multi-vitamin.

10. Purified water is a MUST--at least 8 glasses per day.

11. I personally also find an anti-depressant also helps with pain/mood

swings/anxiety. Kava-kava is a natural for anxiety, but one can take

xanax(Rx) too.

(we do both).

12. Insomnia? we do melatonin from the health food store, or Ambien (Rx),

Tylenol PM.

13. Severe headaches? we take Butalbital (Rx of ferrocet), or Advil, or

oxygen tank.

14. Severe difficulty breathing? we do oxygen from an oxygen tank.

15. the rife machine--I swear by it. Electro-magnetic frequencies zap the

spirochetes.

16. massage therapy, chiropractic, " Aqua bed " --new--it is a hydro-bed that

shoots hot water (104degrees) from underneath you while you are fully

clothed. It does deep tissue massage. IT WORKS!!! I have been herxing like

crazy since doing it!!!!

17. Any exercise whatsoever, even walking. These spirochetes HATE internal

body heat and oxygen.

BEST OF HEALTH TO ALL!!!!

sue in nj

[Guest guest]

Sue- I am intrigued by the Oxygen tank section- can you tell me more about it? Where did you get it? How much did it cost?

Thanks,

Edina

Re: [ ] I am going off Lyme abx

What I have done for my son and my neighbors have done is similar. We all had the kids on Suprax, 1 pill, 2x/day. There are 4 of us here on my block that have kids with chronic lyme...... we all own a rife machine too (each individually) and have had the kids do that too (as well as us). Some of the kids came up positive with the co-infections, babesiosis--in which some took Mepron, some did the Artemesia, some Artemesia and Bactrim and of course, doxy for ehrlichiosis. We all also found out all about "504" plan, or some call it "EIP" in which the kids are classified, nobody has to know about it, they are not excused for special classes. What it is is that these kids get special consideration when it comes to school work, extra time on tests, if not well that day-- 'real lymie', they can be excused from the test, absenteeism, get extra time, etc. Pat , Pres. of the LDAssoc of NJ helped me to implement this in my school, which was a real fight. She also did the in-service that is law. I have a list of alternative remedies that we did too. Here they are.....Here are some suggestions that we do to feel better--1. olive leaf extract- natural antibiotic, anti-viral (wards off colds) and anti-fungal (yeast). Look for at least "17-23% pure". 2. colostrum- super immune builder, made from bovine cows' pre-milk, excellent also for loosing weight!!! 3. colloidal silver- mixture of silver metal particles in a liquid solution that supposedly is a natural antibiotic, an immune system booster and a natural healing property that can relieve pain and suppress the lyme spirochete. 4. grape seed extract- excellent super anti-oxident, aids in fighting the free radicals.5. CoQ10- again an anti-oxident, helps generate energy. Great for heart, liver and kidney free radical damage. 6. Molybdenum- a trace mineral which aids in ridding the body of yeast and bacterial die-off from the Herxes.7. Calcium/magnesium- for bones, and magnesium is to help counteract twitches, muscle spasms, cramps and general weakness.8. acidopholius-- A MUST with anybody that is taking antibiotics. The antibiotics kill ALL the bacteria in the intestinal tract, the acidopholius puts back the "good" bacteria. If one does not take it, you will suffer with yeast infections!!!!!9. B and C vitamins as well as a good multi-vitamin.10. Purified water is a MUST--at least 8 glasses per day.11. I personally also find an anti-depressant also helps with pain/mood swings/anxiety. Kava-kava is a natural for anxiety, but one can take xanax(Rx) too. (we do both). 12. Insomnia? we do melatonin from the health food store, or Ambien (Rx), Tylenol PM.13. Severe headaches? we take Butalbital (Rx of ferrocet), or Advil, or oxygen tank. 14. Severe difficulty breathing? we do oxygen from an oxygen tank.15. the rife machine--I swear by it. Electro-magnetic frequencies zap the spirochetes.16. massage therapy, chiropractic, "Aqua bed"--new--it is a hydro-bed that shoots hot water (104degrees) from underneath you while you are fully clothed. It does deep tissue massage. IT WORKS!!! I have been herxing like crazy since doing it!!!!17. Any exercise whatsoever, even walking. These spirochetes HATE internal body heat and oxygen.BEST OF HEALTH TO ALL!!!!sue in njHAPPY NEW YEAR!!!Easy Reference:Send a blank email message to: -Unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list -Digestegroups - Switch your subscription to a digest format -Normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normalPlease send messages not related to Lyme disease (this includes humor and information about other diseases) to -OfftopicegroupsArchives can be accessed at lyme-aidPlease visit the sister site athttp://clubs./clubs/lymeaidThis is the primary chat site for .

[Guest guest]

On this note, has anyone heard of black seed extract? My ears hurt terribly

even with antibx, etc. and if anyone knows of where I can get this please let

me know.

Donna

[Guest guest]

I looked in the alternative medicine book and it recommends -

herbs for earaches: oil of mullein, garlic oil, lobelia extract drops into the ear.

I didn't see black seed extract in any of my books.

Edina

Re: [ ] I am going off Lyme abx

On this note, has anyone heard of black seed extract? My ears hurt terribly even with antibx, etc. and if anyone knows of where I can get this please let me know.DonnaHAPPY NEW YEAR!!!Easy Reference:Send a blank email message to: -Unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list -Digestegroups - Switch your subscription to a digest format -Normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normalPlease send messages not related to Lyme disease (this includes humor and information about other diseases) to -OfftopicegroupsArchives can be accessed at lyme-aidPlease visit the sister site athttp://clubs./clubs/lymeaidThis is the primary chat site for .

[Guest guest]

Thanks Edina for your info on blackseed...I'd never heard of it and wondered

if it was mispelled.

Donna