MRI

[Guest guest]

Hi Mitch!

I know that developmental pediatricians Dr. Agin or Dr. Laveman, who

are both Medical Consultants to CHERAB, will probably answer some of

your questions in their emails here, and either can address the

differences between neurologists and developmental pediatricians.

But about the MRI question, in the April issue of CHILD magazine,

there is an article called " Brain Mapping, The New Frontier In

Children's Medicine " The descriptive paragraph is " Dramatic

advancements in brain-scanning techniques are uncovering fascinating

findings about ADHD, autism, and normal brain development-information

that will affect how children are diagnosed, treated, and insured in

the future " By Sophia Cariati

In the article they mention other " neurodevelopmental disorders " too,

but they don't mention apraxia. They do say that they are able to

prove there is a " clinical " way to now " test " for ADHD, which up till

now was debated as a " real problem " or a " label placed on healthy

rambunctious children " " But brain-imaging studies are finally

providing proof that ADHD has a biological origin. " And then they go

into findings for other neurodevelopmental disorders too. But just

like ProEFA, the article says " It'll probably be five to ten years

before we can use MRI to diagnose " (and who knows how long before

they will know how to use the information to treat?!)

For those near to, or connected with the National Institute of Mental

Health (NIMH) please let them know they can explore apraxia too! The

article goes into brain changes they are finding in these other

conditions, and since they are looking anyway-I mean, why not!!

Also, Dr. Agin just told me about another test that is even more

accurate than MRIs which I'm sure she can share with all of us.

And Mitch by the way, speaking of Dr. Agin, since you are in NJ, you

will have no problem in finding knowledgeable and respected

neurodevelopmental pediatricians in the NY, NJ area. Dr. Agin and

Dr. Laveman are two right off the top, (of this email) and I know

there are many more. You can meet some at our next meeting on May

7th at Children's Specialized Hospital in Mountainside NJ and Dr.

Joan Sheppard from Columbia is the speaker (more information at our

site at http://www.apraxia.cc )

As far as the rest of the country or world...OK, I'll tell you this,

there is a new specialty that a couple of hundred qualified

developmental pediatricians from the US were just tested for in

Florida, and guess what, lots of questions about speech and language

development, and, you ready for this...

TWO WHOLE QUESTIONS ABOUT VERBAL APRAXIA!!! Yeah!! So for the

pediatricians who still don't know about verbal apraxia-they will

probably find out sooner or later-in the meantime, stick to the

sooner ones. (so yes -find another dev ped)

Funny update on Tanner (yes of course he's on ProEFA) he said to my

mother in law after a full day at the Crayola Factory, and lots of

other running around when she was saying she's getting to old and

where do these kids get the energy from? " Brama, how old are you

Brama? Four? " (to which my mother in law said she would be happy to

be forty four!)

Best,

[Guest guest]

From: " Grace Creatura Lee " <ggratz@...>

Date: Sat Apr 14, 2001 6:06am

Subject: Re: [ ] MRI

HI Mitch, My Daughter 2.5 has suspected oral buccal and verbal apraxia. She also

has some fine and

gross motor delay. She is in speech and occupational therapy. We are also

scheduled for an MRI and a

developmental ped appointment. I also am curious as to what the purpose of the

MRI is. Our

appointment is May 24, so I will keep you posted.

GRACE

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I am interested in this topic as well.. my son Tyler,

2.6 dx'ed with verbal/oral apraxia, dsi, and mild

hypotonia goes in for his MRI tomorrow, the 17th of

April. I am curious as to know what are some things

that can or could show up and what exactly they are

looking for on the MRI. Thanks, any help is

appreciated! Would love to hear from one of the Dr's

on here concerning this.

Have a great week!

Kari Belle

Founder: Southern California Apraxia Association

See us at: http://www.SouthernCaliApraxia.homestead.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

hi all! just wanted to state that i too was told the exact same thing, that

usually an MRI won't show up anything for a child with apraxic issues and he

did not feel the need or have the desire to do one, he also told me there was

much research in this area supporting his statement....

thanks,

Ann Clancy

CHERUB of Southern Mississippi

> I've been reading much information being posted about MRI's. I took my

son

> to a Pediatric Neurologist and he said there was no need to do an MRI. He

> claims that nothing shows up for children with Apraxia and in most cases

> nothing for children with Autism either. Can someone tell me if their

child

> has had an MRI and had something show up as a concern or possible

> contributor to the apraxia?

>

[Guest guest]

I am the mom of a 3.4 year old with a dx of pdd-nos and while the MRI

was a hard test to get through (not he MRI but the sedation), I did

find it useful to rule out as well as identify abnormalities. Some

things that can been seen in the mri are physiological reasons why

there is a delay in speech such as tumors or cysts in various regions

of the brain. The MRI can also evidence the myelination pattern for

the child; if there is a delayed myelination or demyelination that

can also account for delayed or absent speech.

I would agree that often times nothing is found which makes it hard

to justify the test; the converse of this arguement is of course what

if the child DID have a tumor or other abnormality that was missed?

For me, " ruling out " is just as important as " finding something " as

it gives the clinican an opporunity to determine the most appropriate

course of treatment for the child. (My son had an MRI at 18 months

and a repeat at 24 months).

ann

>

> I've been reading much information being posted about MRI's. I

took my son

> to a Pediatric Neurologist and he said there was no need to do an

MRI. He

> claims that nothing shows up for children with Apraxia and in most

cases

> nothing for children with Autism either. Can someone tell me if

their child

> has had an MRI and had something show up as a concern or possible

> contributor to the apraxia?

>

> Pam from Kansas City, MO

> Mother of Corey - 3yr 4mth-Verbal Apraxia

[Guest guest]

I am replying to ktattoli2000 re: mri. My son is now 3 yrs 8 mos old and has

severe apraxia. His mri was last week. it is important to have it done to

rule any other disorders out. a defect in the temporal lobe of the brain is

linked to speech impairments.

I cry everyday re Tyler my son. I cant beleive this is happening. I

introduce him as apraxia now!

I hope he will start talking. It is good to catch it early. Take all the

therapy you can get.

Spiner350@...

[Guest guest]

Since there has been talk about MRIs and brain scans, thought you would all

enjoy reading the following. There may be links between neurologically based

disorders like apraxia/dyslexia/ADHD so perhaps what they " discover " in one, can

be " discovered " in another?

-

[Guest guest]

Hi!

Just a quick note. It is probably not good for your son's self esteem to see

you cry every day, and to be introduced as " apraxia now " .

Remember, it is a hard road you all are traveling, but there are lots of

successes out there! Good Luck.

[Guest guest]

" Any feelings on MRI's or autism.... "

You sound like you are reasonably confused!

MRIs tell if things are working ok in the auditory dept. of the body, I believe,

and yes, it should be done if only to rule out several possible problems. My 3

yr. old twins had it done and it was hardest on me, not them. We also had " BAER "

tests done, and blood work drawn - all at the same time. The kids need to be

in a decent hospital set up, not an outpatient set up like an adult's. They need

to be sedated, with a liquid calmer-downer prior to the needle in the arm

sedation. The MRI is scary to adults, so I wouldn't bother trying to do it

otherwise. These tests, and urine analysis, all help to determine what you want

to know, which is: what is the problem.

I also felt that " more is better " regarding their preK schooling so a MINIMUM of

that " 4 days " of school, and as long a day as possible (mine go 9 a.m. to 2:00

and 2:30 p.m.). This is not torture, they are playing and socializing. The

speech I insisted on was:

My mild speech delay son in district's special education class gets: 5 sessions

in a week, 2 small groups for 30 mins.; 2 individual sessions for 30 mins.; and

1 large group with non disabled peers for role modeling for 30 to 45 mins.

He is doing very well.

My moderate speech delay son gets the max his private school gives: 2 individual

sessions a week for 30 mins. However, they are just starting to have the speech

therapists in the classroom, rather than pulling the child out. This way the

speech therapist can coach the tutors and teacher, and stay on top of the

progress. He is having slow but sure progress.

For the in-district, sp. ed. program I had to insist and make 3 IEP meetings at

2 to 3 hrs. long each to get this much speech in the IEP. So, do not think it

will be handed to you!

Hope this helps.

mom of twins w/PDD/autism

[Guest guest]

Hi, !

Thanks so much for responding. I curious what results you got from the MRI

and the blood work. I've been told that typically the results are

inconclusive. I'm afraid to go through all the tests if they aren't worth

it. will be in a children's hospital setting with the liquid

sedation. (I've already been through the sedation experience as had a

skin graft operation when he was 11 months old.) We also are going to redo

his IEP from April and talk about more school time. I don't think our

district offers extended days for preschool, but I want to fight mainly for

more speech. is a very social child and does his best to get across

what he wants or needs. He has a great imagination and plays well with his

siblings, although I'm concerned about his recent aggressiveness toward his

9 month old sister.

Also, what are the differences in your sons speech delays? The difference

between mild and moderate and are they in different school settings because

of these differences or because it was what you chose.

Sorry about all the questions. But as always, Knowledge is Power!!

Kristi, mom to 3.5 with?????

On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 02:30:37 -0400,

wrote:

> " Any feelings on MRI's or autism.... "

>

> You sound like you are reasonably confused!

> MRIs tell if things are working ok in the auditory dept. of the body, I

believe, and yes, it should be done if only to rule out several possible

problems. My 3 yr. old twins had it done and it was hardest on me, not them.

We also had " BAER " tests done, and blood work drawn - all at the same

time. The kids need to be in a decent hospital set up, not an outpatient set

up like an adult's. They need to be sedated, with a liquid calmer-downer

prior to the needle in the arm sedation. The MRI is scary to adults, so I

wouldn't bother trying to do it otherwise. These tests, and urine analysis,

all help to determine what you want to know, which is: what is the problem.

> I also felt that " more is better " regarding their preK schooling so a

MINIMUM of that " 4 days " of school, and as long a day as possible (mine go 9

a.m. to 2:00 and 2:30 p.m.). This is not torture, they are playing and

socializing. The speech I insisted on was:

> My mild speech delay son in district's special education class gets: 5

sessions in a week, 2 small groups for 30 mins.; 2 individual sessions for

30 mins.; and 1 large group with non disabled peers for role modeling for 30

to 45 mins.

> He is doing very well.

> My moderate speech delay son gets the max his private school gives: 2

individual sessions a week for 30 mins. However, they are just starting to

have the speech therapists in the classroom, rather than pulling the child

out. This way the speech therapist can coach the tutors and teacher, and

stay on top of the progress. He is having slow but sure progress.

> For the in-district, sp. ed. program I had to insist and make 3 IEP

meetings at 2 to 3 hrs. long each to get this much speech in the IEP. So, do

not think it will be handed to you!

> Hope this helps.

>

> mom of twins w/PDD/autism

[Guest guest]

Kristi

I think you sent this to the wrong person?

Jena

-----Original Message-----

>Hi, !

>

>Thanks so much for responding. I curious what results you got from the MRI

>and the blood work. I've been told that typically the results are

>inconclusive. I'm afraid to go through all the tests if they aren't worth

>it. will be in a children's hospital setting with the liquid

>sedation. (I've already been through the sedation experience as had a

>skin graft operation when he was 11 months old.) We also are going to redo

>his IEP from April and talk about more school time. I don't think our

>district offers extended days for preschool, but I want to fight mainly for

>more speech. is a very social child and does his best to get across

>what he wants or needs. He has a great imagination and plays well with his

>siblings, although I'm concerned about his recent aggressiveness toward his

>9 month old sister.

>Also, what are the differences in your sons speech delays? The difference

>between mild and moderate and are they in different school settings because

>of these differences or because it was what you chose.

>Sorry about all the questions. But as always, Knowledge is Power!!

>

>Kristi, mom to 3.5 with?????

>> " Any feelings on MRI's or autism.... "

>>

>> You sound like you are reasonably confused!

>> MRIs tell if things are working ok in the auditory dept. of the body, I

>believe, and yes, it should be done if only to rule out several possible

>problems. My 3 yr. old twins had it done and it was hardest on me, not

them.

>We also had " BAER " tests done, and blood work drawn - all at the same

>time. The kids need to be in a decent hospital set up, not an outpatient

set

>up like an adult's. They need to be sedated, with a liquid calmer-downer

>prior to the needle in the arm sedation. The MRI is scary to adults, so I

>wouldn't bother trying to do it otherwise. These tests, and urine analysis,

>all help to determine what you want to know, which is: what is the problem.

>> I also felt that " more is better " regarding their preK schooling so a

>MINIMUM of that " 4 days " of school, and as long a day as possible (mine go

9

>a.m. to 2:00 and 2:30 p.m.). This is not torture, they are playing and

>socializing. The speech I insisted on was:

>> My mild speech delay son in district's special education class gets: 5

>sessions in a week, 2 small groups for 30 mins.; 2 individual sessions for

>30 mins.; and 1 large group with non disabled peers for role modeling for

30

>to 45 mins.

>> He is doing very well.

>> My moderate speech delay son gets the max his private school gives: 2

>individual sessions a week for 30 mins. However, they are just starting to

>have the speech therapists in the classroom, rather than pulling the child

>out. This way the speech therapist can coach the tutors and teacher, and

>stay on top of the progress. He is having slow but sure progress.

>> For the in-district, sp. ed. program I had to insist and make 3 IEP

>meetings at 2 to 3 hrs. long each to get this much speech in the IEP. So,

do

>not think it will be handed to you!

>> Hope this helps.

>>

>> mom of twins w/PDD/autism

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat, If you aren't comfortable having Spencer sedated for and MRI talk to

the doctor about it. Impress on the doctor how Spencer reacted the last time

he was sedated. He is very young. Is it urgent that he have the MRI at this

time? Most of the time they turn out normal. You know best as his Mother

how Spencer reacted and I would go with my gut feeling. Just my opinion.

Grammy Patty

[Guest guest]

My daughter had a MRI done at Teneck Radiology in Teneck, NJ which was

recommended by our ped. neuro from NY. I was a basket case before and during

it. But really they were great. They gave her intervenously whose name I

will probably mess up (neubotol?). They only gave her 1/4 of the dose bec.

she fell right to sleep (her nap time) and she woke up within 45 minutes

wonderfully. We may have the sedated ABR-what did they use for the sedation?

Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Pat,

Maybe finding out what they used previously would be a good idea. Then tell

them not to use that. Bekah has usually had Chloral hydate

judi

> I haven't posted in a while but I have been reading. My son, Spencer,

> (25 months) is going to have a MRI Nov 11th. I took him to see a ped.

> neroligest and he scheduled to test. I know they will have to sedate

> him. Does anyone know of something they can use that won't have

> Spencer going crazy when he starts to wake up. Spencer had a sedated

> ABR and he was almost uncontrolable when he was coming out of it.All

> the nurse said was little kids always do this. I can't beleive that.

> Any info would be very helpful.

>

> Thanks

>

> Pat (Spencer's Mom)

[Guest guest]

Pat,

They use chloryl hydrate for my Tami too with no

ill side effects.

DEb

--- john dawson <johnjudi@...> wrote:

> Pat,

> Maybe finding out what they used previously would be

> a good idea. Then tell

> them not to use that. Bekah has usually had Chloral

> hydate

> judi

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

I can't believe that, either. My son had an MRI done a year and a half ago.

They first put a cream on his hands so that he wouldn't feel the IV's going

in - he felt them, let me tell you. Due to his hypotonia, they had to put

him to sleep. He cried the whole time before he passed out. It was

horrible. But afterwards, he came out of it just fine. His test came back

normal, too. Good luck to you and Spencer! I hope that everything turns

out alright.

~~

> I haven't posted in a while but I have been reading. My son, Spencer,

> (25 months) is going to have a MRI Nov 11th. I took him to see a ped.

> neroligest and he scheduled to test. I know they will have to sedate

> him. Does anyone know of something they can use that won't have

> Spencer going crazy when he starts to wake up. Spencer had a sedated

> ABR and he was almost uncontrolable when he was coming out of it.All

> the nurse said was little kids always do this. I can't beleive that.

> Any info would be very helpful.

>

> Thanks

>

> Pat (Spencer's Mom)

[Guest guest]

Hello:

I would like to know what was used to sedate Spencer for the ABR.

Typically, chloral hydrate is used for most of these procedures - it

is a

benign sleep-inducing medicine, and certainly he could have woken

disoriented. You may wish to go to a center that specializes in

pediatric

conscious sedation procedures, where a different kind of medication

can be

used, under the auspices of an anaesthesiologist.

Good luck,

Larry Laveman, MD

Consultant, CHERAB

>From: jpetroline@...

>Date: Sat Oct 27, 2001 6:09 pm

>Subject: MRI

>

>

>I haven't posted in a while but I have been reading. My son, Spencer,

>(25 months) is going to have a MRI Nov 11th. I took him to see a ped.

>neroligest and he scheduled to test. I know they will have to sedate

>him. Does anyone know of something they can use that won't have

>Spencer going crazy when he starts to wake up. Spencer had a sedated

>ABR and he was almost uncontrolable when he was coming out of it.All

>the nurse said was little kids always do this. I can't beleive that.

>Any info would be very helpful.

[Guest guest]

When my daughter had her MRI, they gave her the chloral hydrate to

drink. It was her nap time, and she had no problem falling

asleep. She slept forever afterward. I think the MRI was scheduled

for 2, and we were there until she woke up around 6. She was fine

when she woke up.

Suzi

> Hi Pat,

>

> I can't believe that, either. My son had an MRI done a year and a

half ago.

> They first put a cream on his hands so that he wouldn't feel the

IV's going

> in - he felt them, let me tell you. Due to his hypotonia, they

had to put

> him to sleep. He cried the whole time before he passed out. It

was

> horrible. But afterwards, he came out of it just fine. His test

came back

> normal, too. Good luck to you and Spencer! I hope that

everything turns

> out alright.

>

> ~~

>

>

>

> > I haven't posted in a while but I have been reading. My son,

Spencer,

> > (25 months) is going to have a MRI Nov 11th. I took him to see a

ped.

> > neroligest and he scheduled to test. I know they will have to

sedate

> > him. Does anyone know of something they can use that won't have

> > Spencer going crazy when he starts to wake up. Spencer had a

sedated

> > ABR and he was almost uncontrolable when he was coming out of

it.All

> > the nurse said was little kids always do this. I can't beleive

that.

> > Any info would be very helpful.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Pat (Spencer's Mom)

[Guest guest]

no, i jerk and spasm alot. but seems i did it before prednisone. kathy in il

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm sorry to hear about the results of you MRI. As far as the " muscle

jerks " I do get that at times, as well. Particularly when I am dozing off,

but I've had it at other times, too. I don't normally take prednisone, so

that wouldn't be a factor for me.

Hugs,

Carol in FL

[ ] MRI

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know that I just got the results of my MRI. It is

worse than I expected. There is a herniated disc at L3-L4 and a bulging

disc

at L4-L5. So it off to see the neuro. I'm waiting for them to call with

the

app't. Luckily it is the same neuro group that helped my dad and I know

that

they did a good job. Also the herniation is pinching the sciatic nerve. I

knew something was going on there. Does anyone experience " muscle jerks " ?

When I am at rest all of a sudden my arm or leg will suddenly jerk.

Sometimes when I am dozing off to sleep my whole body will seem to spasm.

Rheumy says it could be from the prednisone or other meds. Just curious if

this is common or if I seem to be the " lucky " one.

Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Dear ...I was diagnosed with the same neuro problems at the same

locations as you about a month ago. Currently I'm doing Physical

Therapy, and may have a microdiskemtomy this summer.

I get those twitchy-jerky things oftentimes when I lay down to sleep

and as I'm drifting off. Sometimes they startle me awake.

Just want you to know I'm cheering you on, and hope your neuro can find

the right cure for you.

Tess

[Guest guest]

Hi , I just wanted to say I have the same problem with the

bulging disc at L4-L5. I am also waiting to see the neuro.Is this something

we get with JRA?

ette

-- [ ] MRI

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know that I just got the results of my MRI. It is

worse than I expected. There is a herniated disc at L3-L4 and a bulging disc

at L4-L5. So it off to see the neuro. I'm waiting for them to call with the

app't. Luckily it is the same neuro group that helped my dad and I know that

they did a good job. Also the herniation is pinching the sciatic nerve. I

knew something was going on there. Does anyone experience " muscle jerks " ?

When I am at rest all of a sudden my arm or leg will suddenly jerk.

Sometimes when I am dozing off to sleep my whole body will seem to spasm.

Rheumy says it could be from the prednisone or other meds. Just curious if

this is common or if I seem to be the " lucky " one.

Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear your news, Stacey. Good thing you've got confidence in the

neurologists though. I hope they can help you, and soon. Let us know

when you are going.

[ ] MRI

> Hi All,

> Just wanted to let you know that I just got the results of my MRI. It

is

> worse than I expected. There is a herniated disc at L3-L4 and a

bulging disc

> at L4-L5. So it off to see the neuro. I'm waiting for them to call

with the

> app't. Luckily it is the same neuro group that helped my dad and I

know that

> they did a good job. Also the herniation is pinching the sciatic

nerve. I

> knew something was going on there. Does anyone experience " muscle

jerks " ?

> When I am at rest all of a sudden my arm or leg will suddenly jerk.

> Sometimes when I am dozing off to sleep my whole body will seem to

spasm.

> Rheumy says it could be from the prednisone or other meds. Just

curious if

> this is common or if I seem to be the " lucky " one.

> Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tess,

I tried PT last fall and it seemed to help, but the minute I stop the

therapy. It not too long before I aggravate the low back. I appreciate the

kind thoughts and prayers. I can't wait to get some relief from this

specific pain.

Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Hi ette,

I don't know if this is a condition related to JRA. It seems to run in my

family though. My dad has had 5 surgeries to repair discs over the years. I

think that people with RA may be more succeptable to back problems because of

the way that our bodies have to compensate for weaknesses in areas. This is

just my opinion of course. Good luck with your back problem. How long of a

wait to see your neuro? I hope not too long. Where are you located?

Stacey in PA