Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Ed is right. For a longtime I thought it was the big drug comp's that was causeing the problem. However I was wrong. They don't care there it is really not on their radar as he said. You could not have convinced me of that a year or so ago. However I found what the real problem is. It is the fact that we have a society that refuses to look at the overwhelming evidence of HBOT with Neurological conditions. > > >I disagree with Ed 100% O2 ! Comon, you live in Fantasyland or what ? > >High level executive from Merck and Lilly should be sent to jail! > >Add Monsanto on the list and a few dozen more. Your government allowed > >the poisoning of your people, your children and your land. What a > >ridiculous irony to be conducting research to find out what is causing > >cancer and all these unheard of diseases. To a point where it is a > >shame in the history of this planet. Watch ''The world according to > >Monsanto''. .. > >Of course there are many conspiracies whether you want to admit it or > >hear it or not. How can any government who supposedly serves its > >people shield vaccine manufacturers from litigations for damages with > >their toxic products??? You would like them to get away with this ? > > > >More soon on the dirty links of Merck against hyperbarics in > >Montreal... You have to know what is going on if you really want to > >change things in this world. And criminals have to be accused, trialed > >and taken off the streets (including Wall Street). > > > >Do yourself a favor, join Mike and Dr Mercola's list for some > >education about the shadow ruling Elite corruption of the healthcare > >field: > > > ><<http://www.naturaln ews.com/z021795. html>http://www.naturaln ews.co > m/z021795.html>http://www.naturaln ews.com/z021795. html > > > ><http://articles. mercola.com/ sites/articles/ archive/2008/ 10/02/big- > pharma-ties- wants-to- shut-down- vaccine-conspira cy-theories. aspx?source= nl>http://articles. mercola.com/ sites/articles/ archive/2008/ 10/02/big- pharma-ties- wants-to- shut-down- vaccine-conspira cy-theories. aspx?source= nl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those who don't know this, Diane sells HBOT chambers for home > > > > >therapy. My neurologist was happy to order HBOT for me for TBI; he > > > > >has doubts about whether it is of value for M.S. It may, but I > > > > >wouldn't consider Diane as a medical expert on the indications of > > > > >HBOT for " regression. " > > > > > > > > > > > > She suggested I buy a chamber for treatment because of my TBI, to > > > > >avoid " regression. " Treatment for TBI has shown to have significant > > > > >medical benefit, and it is hard to know when maximal benefit is > > > > >achieved, but " regression " is not applicable for TBI. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a great site for information, but also beware that you > >must > > > > >consider the source: in some cases what you get is misinformation. > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, if I had M.S., and could afford it, I would probably > > > > >try HBOT--it may not prevent progression, but it may delay it-- > > > > >there's a lot we don't know about M.S. as well as many other > > > > >neurological diseases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ed Nemeth > > > >President, CEO > > > >Spectrum Events > > > >444 North Third Street, Suite 304 > > > >Sacramento, CA 95814 > > > > > > > >916-856-7044 x 339 > > > >916-856-7040 (fax) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Here's a thought based on my observations as a parent. I've noticed that when babies learn a new skill, other skills fall by the wayside or even regress a bit. For example, I've yet to meet a child who developed walking and talking at the same time/same pace. Could it be that with neurofeedback, the focus on generating new pathways or producing different frequencies has the potential to result in lack of focus on other skills/development? And when regression isn't noted, the changes are slow, minor, or subtle enough that any stalling elsewhere is practically unnoticeable. To me, this seems like a subject for a research project! Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 If I'm understanding Sharrie's question properly (and I'm one of the people who had no idea!) she's talking about regression in the sense of literally returning to a lower level of functioning--perhaps emotionally and physically as well as mentally--before then starting to climb. In NF, we usually DON'T see that--or at least prefer not to. In other approaches it appears to be more of a standard expectation. In the late 80's, I was involved in the development of an inpatient program for Dissociative Identity Disorder (then called Multiple Personality Disorder). The psychologist who was our program director was a well-recognized, published therapist who specialized in MPD, and his approach--indeed the accepted approach at that time--was to push people into regressions and then work through them with the patient to help " integrate " the material. One of the first times I ever heard of neurofeedback was with a few folks who were using alpha theta training to take people down, not to 7 Hz but, to 3Hz, where they would abreact. That approach was largely discredited during the whole turmoil about " triggered memories " and other somewhat questionable things that were done by the big-name therapists of the day in their semi-religious zeal (the whole trans-generational satanic cult belief was popularly adhered to among many of them). And people began discovering that they could often use alpha theta focusing on 7 hz crossovers to integrate traumatic material without the requirement to re-experience it. So I guess my question would be, does NF have the potential to guide the brain literally to extinguish dysfunctional patterns by working at the electrical level, where most approaches must take the patient back to the point where th pattern was first chosen and then rebuild brain patterns from there? Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235 The Learning Curve, Inc. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM, drsharrie <drsharrie@...> wrote: okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may know. I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special health needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it that most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a child to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or theories on this and that I may share it with my group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 We developped a model that by the initial training (e.g. T3-T4 montage which is near the limbic system) the client should be pushed into a phase which we call "chaotic" (the new deterministic chaos) with brainwaves absolutely differing from the state at the beginning - say after e.g. 20 to 40 sessions (depending on the severeness of the symptoms). When chaos phase begins nothing is predictable. After this phase of chaos - which can last many sessions (with some new behaviour patterns arising) this must not mean that the client behaves chaotic, children more likely than adults - a sort of stabilizing brain patterns arise which are the new more healthy patterns. We continue to train until the new brainwave patterns stabilize. Uwe from Germany, we already do nfb training since 10 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 While it doesn’t happen most of the time, I’ve had clients over the years who regressed for a day after a session, then improved. As far as I can remember these were all non-verbal kids with severe developmental disabilities. The first one was my son. He would regularly have a terrible day on the day after a session, then really improve quite dramatically for several days following. This would happen for most sessions. This can create reporting problems if you aren’t careful. I had a case in a school program I did several years ago where the parent was always reporting “no change” or that her son was worse. Six months after the program ended she reported that he’d now made dramatic improvements. It turned out that NF sessions were done on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and that his behavior was terrible the day after each time, but then really good following. So really his behavior was no good almost 50% of the time and that was what she was reporting on. Mark From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Van Deusen Sent: Friday, 11 September 2009 5:45 AM Subject: Re: regression If I'm understanding Sharrie's question properly (and I'm one of the people who had no idea!) she's talking about regression in the sense of literally returning to a lower level of functioning--perhaps emotionally and physically as well as mentally--before then starting to climb. In NF, we usually DON'T see that--or at least prefer not to. In other approaches it appears to be more of a standard expectation. In the late 80's, I was involved in the development of an inpatient program for Dissociative Identity Disorder (then called Multiple Personality Disorder). The psychologist who was our program director was a well-recognized, published therapist who specialized in MPD, and his approach--indeed the accepted approach at that time--was to push people into regressions and then work through them with the patient to help " integrate " the material. One of the first times I ever heard of neurofeedback was with a few folks who were using alpha theta training to take people down, not to 7 Hz but, to 3Hz, where they would abreact. That approach was largely discredited during the whole turmoil about " triggered memories " and other somewhat questionable things that were done by the big-name therapists of the day in their semi-religious zeal (the whole trans-generational satanic cult belief was popularly adhered to among many of them). And people began discovering that they could often use alpha theta focusing on 7 hz crossovers to integrate traumatic material without the requirement to re-experience it. So I guess my question would be, does NF have the potential to guide the brain literally to extinguish dysfunctional patterns by working at the electrical level, where most approaches must take the patient back to the point where th pattern was first chosen and then rebuild brain patterns from there? Pete -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@... http://www.brain-trainer.com USA 305 433 3160 BR 47 3346 6235 The Learning Curve, Inc. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM, drsharrie <drsharrie@...> wrote: okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may know. I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special health needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it that most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a child to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or theories on this and that I may share it with my group. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2358 - Release Date: 09/09/09 21:36:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Mark, RE: the school program child: How did you determine that you should keep on with that protocol when the reports coming back were mostly negative? Or did some postivie ones come in also? Rosemary > > > > okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer > to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may > know. > I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special health > needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it that > most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique > (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a child > to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not > occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or > theories on this and that I may share it with my group. > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2358 - Release Date: 09/09/09 > 21:36:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Hi Rosemary, It is difficult to answer without the information in front of me since it was more than five years ago now. But from what I recall reports from school were good, but not from home. The mother was also dealing with her own health crisis (cancer) at the time, so I was also aware that may have impacted upon her view of how things were at the time. I know this isn’t really clear cut … there were several variables there. The subjective reporting in general was also very interesting. Teachers rating no improvements while parents rated high improvements; the opposite as already mentioned; class teachers who already had indicated they didn’t like the idea of neurofeedback and appeared threatened by it constantly rating “no change” in students that the school principal thought were the ones that had improved the most. It really raised the issue of the reliability of subjective ratings. Mark From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of primopetey Sent: Friday, 11 September 2009 6:20 AM Subject: Re: regression Mark, RE: the school program child: How did you determine that you should keep on with that protocol when the reports coming back were mostly negative? Or did some postivie ones come in also? Rosemary > > > > okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer > to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may > know. > I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special health > needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it that > most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique > (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a child > to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not > occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or > theories on this and that I may share it with my group. > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2358 - Release Date: 09/09/09 > 21:36:00 > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2358 - Release Date: 09/09/09 21:36:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Something which one does all the time, in any sort of therapy/intervention for changing behaviour, is to do something called Point of Reference. There is a site by Hiranya Barbara Stone, EdD, http://www.spiritsong.org/ which has a series of articles, and one them has the title "Speech as Hyperlink". For the Self-valuing exercise it's pointed out the following: "Find a comfortable spot to sit and think about yourself. Make a list of all the adjectives that you think describe you, both positive and negative. Be very honest if you want this exercise to be useful. ... In doing this, you may want to look back into your family relationships to see if you can pinpoint the source of any negative feelings you have about yourself. Were there any words or phrases said about or to you during your childhood that are particularly emotionally loaded or weighted? What did your parents say to you when they punished you for misbehaviors? What did your peers or friends say to you when they teased you? What did teachers say to you when they corrected you? Did any of these become self-fulfilling prophecies? How did others react to things you created? To ways in which you tried to help? To your investigations into others' space or privacy? Is there a pattern in your positive attributes? Who contributed to the accumulation of those? Did the same person or persons give you both positive and negative feedback? How did this impact the final result, if at all? ... All of these kinds of interactions helped to create your self-image and the self-esteem or lack of it in which you hold yourself. So, as you encounter these memories, be compassionate with yourself and gently untangle the truth from fiction. If you run into a great deal of negative feedback, it might be useful to try to understand why those who abused you needed to do so. The fault may lie in the backgrounds of others rather than in anything you did or said." This is what traditional therapy does. It tries to look back to some past event and them use it as a point of reference for what one wants to change. Neurofeedback does do Point of Reference, but does not go to any sort of life event. It looks at brain activity and, after careful analysis, one just creates the conditions for the person to change the activity and the way the brain works. What this means is that one just go from one point in time, the now, as far as the brain is concerned, and there isn't any need for regression. It uses what is called the 4 Ws and the H. 1-What is happening, 2-Where is happening, 3- When it happens, 4- Who is noticing and 5- How can one change it? All the best. -------Prof.Dr. Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)2000-119 Santarem, Portugal Fax: (351)243321044 E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@... http://cienciacognitiva.planetaclix.pt/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Pete, I believe the difference is " Denial " . It's so great in the field that even you could forget a few of your memebers here speaking very clearly about the regression they experienced here with NF. So no I don't agree that regression is something just happens outside of our own practice. It's a very real danger with any approach including NF Bruce > > > > > > > okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer > > to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may > > know. > > I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special > > health needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it > > that most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique > > (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a child > > to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not > > occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or > > theories on this and that I may share it with my group. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 With HEG Jeff Carmen talks about prefrontal disinhibition from it being overworked as reason for regression before one has had a couple of good nights sleep after HEG sessions Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Thanks Mark. I understand what you are saying. I have had people tell me " no changes " but when I have them fill out a form rating symptoms from 1-10 or do JD Elder's Quick Assessment form I pick up changes that have occurred under their radar. Rosemary > > > > > > > > okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer > > to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may > > know. > > I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special > health > > needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it that > > most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique > > (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a > child > > to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not > > occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or > > theories on this and that I may share it with my group. > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2358 - Release Date: 09/09/09 > > 21:36:00 > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2358 - Release Date: 09/09/09 > 21:36:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 , I think you observation about this is very interesting. I recently have begun using more alpha theta training with clients when appropriate and the observance and reactions clients have is unique and somewhat unpredictable but always a WoW. Jeff From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Van DeusenSent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:45 PM Subject: Re: regression If I'm understanding Sharrie's question properly (and I'm one of the people who had no idea!) she's talking about regression in the sense of literally returning to a lower level of functioning--perhaps emotionally and physically as well as mentally--before then starting to climb. In NF, we usually DON'T see that--or at least prefer not to. In other approaches it appears to be more of a standard expectation.In the late 80's, I was involved in the development of an inpatient program for Dissociative Identity Disorder (then called Multiple Personality Disorder). The psychologist who was our program director was a well-recognized, published therapist who specialized in MPD, and his approach--indeed the accepted approach at that time--was to push people into regressions and then work through them with the patient to help "integrate" the material. One of the first times I ever heard of neurofeedback was with a few folks who were using alpha theta training to take people down, not to 7 Hz but, to 3Hz, where they would abreact.That approach was largely discredited during the whole turmoil about "triggered memories" and other somewhat questionable things that were done by the big-name therapists of the day in their semi-religious zeal (the whole trans-generational satanic cult belief was popularly adhered to among many of them). And people began discovering that they could often use alpha theta focusing on 7 hz crossovers to integrate traumatic material without the requirement to re-experience it.So I guess my question would be, does NF have the potential to guide the brain literally to extinguish dysfunctional patterns by working at the electrical level, where most approaches must take the patient back to the point where th pattern was first chosen and then rebuild brain patterns from there?Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM, drsharrie <drsharrie > wrote: okay I tried asking two people that I thought would really know the answer to this but neither of them did!!!! So I am hoping that someone here may know.I belong to a neuro group for parents that have children with special health needs in neurological development. The question came up of why is it that most of the other therapies like HANDLE, iLs, NeuroModulation Technique (Feinberg Method), RMT (Rhythmic Movement Training), etc. all cause a child to regress before they progress whereas with Neurofeedback this does not occur? I was wondering if you would please share your thoughts, ideas or theories on this and that I may share it with my group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 there was real regression after the last round of DMSA. she looks just as bad as she did when i started all of the rounds. anyone ever experience this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Yes, you would be able to see an obstruction on xray. Can she take magnesium, or aloe vera liquid, or vit c? These have really helped my son's constipation. How about epsom salt baths? > > > > > > there was real regression after the last round of DMSA. she looks just as bad as she did when i started all of the rounds. anyone ever experience this? > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 On the Xray, they saw lots of poop. How do they know its just poop and not some kind of obstruction? She keeps going days and days without pooping. Almost heading into 3 weeks, and then I have to give senekot or something. Then she poops, but not all of it comes out. I can still feel it in there. On Feb 28, 2010, at 6:11 PM, khieken wrote: > Yes, you would be able to see an obstruction on xray. Can she take magnesium, or aloe vera liquid, or vit c? These have really helped my son's constipation. How about epsom salt baths? > > > > > > > > > > there was real regression after the last round of DMSA. she looks just as bad as she did when i started all of the rounds. anyone ever experience this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Sorry to bud in, my daughters both have obstructions that were not seen on X-rays! Many obstructions can be detected with barium swallows only, or opening up the child (in our case)...then there could be Hirschsprungs disease present (where part of bowel is missing nerves) which can only be detected 100% by biopsy...in this case aloe vera or any other stuff will never resolve constipation. If a child goes 3 weeks without pooping and all your laxative supplements do not work you have to take it very seriously and don't wait too long...Renate ________________________________ From: khieken <khieken@...> Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 12:11:14 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Regression  Yes, you would be able to see an obstruction on xray. Can she take magnesium, or aloe vera liquid, or vit c? These have really helped my son's constipation. How about epsom salt baths? > > > > > > there was real regression after the last round of DMSA. she looks just as bad as she did when i started all of the rounds. anyone ever experience this? > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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