Re: OT: drug seems unneccessary for my 2 year old

March 6, 2010

The best I can do: Look for a hypnotherapist who has experience using hypnosis

to help people deal with post-surgical pain. Some people have had (minor?)

surgeries without any anesthesia using hypnosis. My understanding is that some

studies show that people heal faster if they are not given an excess of pain

medication -- that pain medication only helps you heal IF it is being used to

take the edge off extreme pain of the type that causes physiological stress and

thereby releases toxins into the system. Pain is information. Knocking someone

out and removing all pain actually deprives the body of the information it needs

to figure out how to heal properly.

Like you, I would also be very reluctant to let them cut out one of the

testicles. Yes, it's the equivalent of a woman having her ovaries cut out.

Yes, the testicles produce hormones important to physical development. You can

always have one cut out later if it actually becomes problematic. Perhaps being

removed from the strangulating situation it is in would let it heal up and

become functional again. I've seen all kinds of dramatic healing that doctors

said could not happen. Remove the cause of the problem, give adequate

nutritional support and time, the body can do amazing things.

Good luck with this.

Michele

http://www.healthgazelle.com

http://www.kidslikemine.com

http://www.solanorail.com

March 6, 2010

I do only natural holistic health care for my family (now), unless there would

be trauma. No OTC meds, only herbs, oils, etc. I'm a body/energy worker as well,

use CST, massage, reflexology and energy medicine for many things. I understand

where you are coming from.

I would NOT do what you are saying.

My advice is to THINK, really think about what you do.

Surgery ALWAYS has risks. You can minimize them, but every choice has

consequences.

Back before I knew anything other than mainstream medicine my son had double

hernia surgery at age 16 months. For whatever reason, my child appeared to be

" under " but was not fully. He remembers being strapped to an OR table and being

cut open, being unable to move, not understanding why or where his parents were.

He did have pain, and remembers it. He will NEVER be quite right because of it.

He has severe PTSD, and has flashbacks and loses any time he gets the smallest

injury - so he has NOT just learned to deal with pain, as you hope your child

will. He has mostly repressed the memory and doesn't quite understand what his

fears are about. We've spent well over $20,000 on therapies for this. I also

fully believe that the subsequent years of physical wear on his body from the

emotional stress, and severe sleep deprivation from endless sleep terrors

twisted his body chemistry in such a way that help set him up to regress into

autism at age 4.5 (yes, after a flu shot, but his health was ruined by then).

I wouldn't use acetominophen, either. Not good for the liver. They can use

ibuprofen. I would keep arnica on hand (homeopathic), too. But IMO, it is

cruel, abusive, and torture to not provide pain control for a 2 year old who

does not understand what is going on. You may end up with life long affects you

did not bargain for. There are risks - one way or the other. You cannot control

everything.

>

> This is not for my child with autism, but for my 2 year old who needs surgery,

which is scheduled for April 5th. I can't change the date unless I want him to

have 3 more injects each day for 3 days. He has 2 hernias and his testicles are

kind of twisted up around them. That is why they haven't decended. Not because

he has a syndrome like the urologist that retired (thank goodness) said and put

him through tons of genetic testing. It may take more than one surgery to fix

everything. But, what I am worried about, and I can't even spell enough of the

word to find it in the dictionary, is a caudle (pain blocker). They are really

trying to sell me on this, but I keep saying NO. My biggest reason is that the

urologist at first called it an epidural, which I had when having , and

did not have when I had Josh. It was totally unneccessary and I wish I had not

had it with . Plus, I later learned the dangers of epidurals. Then he

already (last week) had me talk to the pre-op nurse and anestesiologist. In

that clinic they kept asking at the desk, " His surgery is tommorow? " Seems most

parents talk to pre-op the day before a scheduled surgery. Not a month before.

I wonder if the urologist made me go because I was saying NO to the epidural

(they told me he meant caudle (spelled wrong)? But, when the urologist said

there is a chance the anestesiologist (spelled that wrong too) could stick it in

a artery and make his heart stop, that was it for me. I said no way. We all

have physical pain in our life at some point. I had double hernia surgery at

age 5. My mom didn't think I had a caudle. I don't know if I can get med

records from St. Hospital from 33 years ago or not. Probably if I can

they can't get them this quickly.

>

> Another thing is I said NO to Tylenol, because he started breathing weird the

one time he took it. All pediatricians in his clinic agree that he should just

avoid it. This doctor wants me to consider it (prescription form) as a pain med

to take home and he said he can try it out in the hospital and be monitored

there for a reaction. Do I want to do that, or do I stand my ground on this

too? I had one high blood pressure medicine that I didn't have a negative

reaction to until 3 weeks later, and the nurse I had told me that was

impossible. That I would have the reaction taking it the first time. Really

makes me not trust the mainstream medical world.

>

> All he has ever had is infant motrin, some antibiotics, and hydroxyz hcl for

cough and congestion. He has had a little zantac and previcid for reflux. It

bothered me to give it. I can't stand drugs. I knew we weren't getting to the

root cause of the problem with using meds.

>

> Now I wonder if the hernias were part of the reflux. I read that on the

internet somewhere, but it didn't say a lot about it. If he has reflux now you

can't tell it.

>

> I also wonder if when I did a myofascial release technique on him to try to

make the testicles want to slowly move down that he noticed pain from that

because they did want to move, but couldn't because they were tangled up in the

hernias. You can see one hernia, but an ultrasound revealed one on the other

side too. That is how I was too. One was visible and the other one they found

during surgery. Did they have ultrasounds 33 years ago? How did they find one

on the other side if you can see until you cut into the person if there were not

ultrasounds available? I had big scars. He will have 4 little ones. It is out

patient. That bothers me too. What if something comes undone? Will it cause

internal bleeding? How will I know?

>

> My friend is a myofascial release therapist and I can learn some techniques

from her for pain control or take him to her. She might even go to the hospital

with us. She was there for his birth and did the unwinding of his birth a few

hours after he was born.

>

> I remember some if my surgery at age 5. Mostly the toys I was brought it the

hospital. I got so much I was thinking I must have stayed a week, but my mom

said it was outpatient for me too. They must have really felt guilty. I

remember my aunt and uncle coming. I remember my dad changing the bandages in

the bathroom. I don't remember any pain and I have big scars. I remember being

at the hospital and not being fearful. My mom said she made me a nice soft,

cozy bed for me a home and I only stayed in it 10 or 15 minutes and I was up

playing, not being bothered by a thing. So, I am leaning toward the whole

caudle drug thing as being unneccessary. It is a research hospital and I

already feel like my child has been guinea pigged enough. Now, I see that after

the usual time limit for the testicles to descend on their own after birth, they

should have suggested an ultrasound to see what was going on. I didn't know.

Wish I did.

>

> Also, what about this? I think they have ruled this out now, but just incase,

they said if one or both testicles were not functioning they would cut them out?

Is that neccessary? They keep talking about the risk of cancer if they are left

in and not functioning. Would that not be the same equivalent of a woman going

through menopause and automatically making her get a hysterectomy?

>

> I am tired of hospitals, drugs, mainstream medicine, and scare tactics.

>

> I know this is off topic, but the best people I know with NON mainstream

knowledge are on these message boards, and I am running out of time.

>

> If it is best to email me directly since it is off topic my email is

aprilveronica@... aprilveronica at hotmail dot com

>

> Thank you,

>

> April

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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>

March 6, 2010

Having a labor epidural and having a caudal block for post-op pain relief for a

child are two very different things. Yes, both involve sticking a needle in

your back and administering medication. Yes, both carry risks. Your

anesthesiologist should be the one to discuss the risks with you, not your

urologist. ALL anesthesia carries risk.

BUT, using a caudal block on your son probably requires less anesthesia for the

surgery itself. A quicker recovery time is likely in post-op, and possibly a

quicker general recovery from the surgery. I assume you aren't saying no to

anesthesia, period. Honestly, if a caudal block is being used in place of

general anesthesia... the block is actually safer than going under 100%. I know

that isn't an option here.

Caudal blocks are not experimental and, therefore, your child is not being

treated like a guinea pig. It is probably the most common regional block

(blocking pain to a specific area) in pediatrics. I guess I would want to know

if regional blocks were always used in their clinic or if this was being

recommended in your particular case because the surgery is more involved than a

typical hernia repair and if the post-op pain is more significant. That might

affect my decision.

Don't underestimate the stress post-op pain has on a child because you have

experience and don't feel like it scarred you for life. Surgery generates a

stress response that can negatively impact metabolic and immune function.

Studies seem to show that pain control lessens that negative stress response;

specifically using these regional blocks.

When you had your hernia surgery you were put under, most likely. My guess is

you were also given oral pain meds post-op. 33 yrs clouds the memory a bit; I

am sure you were not pain-free. i'm not sure I agree that this situation falls

under the 'we all have pain in our lives from time to time' rationalization.

No to the Tylenol. I'll back you up 100% on that one. You can use prescription

strength Motrin just as easily. Motrin is better for pain control, anyway.

Tylenol is better for fever (but don't use it, period).

Personally, I would use the block ONLY IF this was a more involved surgery than

a typical hernia repair. You can always limit the amount of meds given based on

his reaction to pain afterwards, but you'd have it in place to use if/when it

was needed. Ask around and request an anesthesiologist or have your MD request

a specific one if that is how they do it there (not allowed here). Nurses are

the best resource for doctor recommendations!

Take this for what it's worth: my husband is an anesthesiologist (and he won't

give you advice over the computer). I HATE drugs, don't get me wrong. I rarely

use them. I'm the nutty mom for not letting the dentist use pain meds for

cavities. This is surgery, though. I just see it as different than choosing to

forgo cough medicine for a cold or not. Keep asking them questions if you are

not satisfied with the answers, but I'd approach it more than just being scared

of medication (which is why I'd want to know if this is always done by them or

if your case is a special circumstance).

Yes, they likely sent you to the anesthesiologist early because they felt you

needed to talk to them and make a decision. I think that was a good idea;

better than making a snap judgement the day prior to surgery. I hope they

answered all of your questions and were respectful.

I can't comment on the whole cut out the testicle thing, except for it sounds

extreme. That decision impacts his entire future (hormonally, mentally,

physically). Oh, but I'd give him B12, folate and B6 for the week prior to

surgery and the week after just to help limit any impact from the nitrous oxide

they are most likely to use (unless you told them not to) for the general.

Ugh. I hate these decisions. You want your child to be safe but you know there

are risks no matter what your choice. Parenthood.

Pam (who also has an extreme distrust of mainstream medicine)