Guest guest Posted January 7, 2000 Report Share Posted January 7, 2000 Shirley, I have sent this to the Dwarfism Listserve, someone there may have some input to your specific situation. In Love And Service, D. Kline, aka DwarfStar http://www.dwarfism.org Braces I'm trying to get some input on orthodontic procedures. My daughter is an achondroplastic dwarf and is in the process of getting braces. Her orthodontist wants to stretch the jaw muscles instead of pulling teeth to make room. He says they've discovered that pulling teeth to make room for overcrowding can cause problems later on in life. My question is does this make sense to do this to someone whose mouth may not be much larger than it is now? I'd appreciate any information or opinions. Shirley McCann (I can also be reached at IMAGHOST@...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2001 Report Share Posted November 27, 2001 Quoting djtrigger2002@...: > Dr Siff and group > > What are the group's feelings about braces for extra support and > stability. Do they hinder the athlete in terms of jumping ability > and change of direction? Or does the support outweigh the limited > joint action? Would love to hear the groups comments. I was > thinking along the lines of ankle braces and knee braces. Also, I > am not talking about an athlete who has had previous ACL or MCL > tears. Just wants support **** My opinion is with respect to ankle braces, as I have had most experience with those via basketball. I definitely do not agree with athletes wearing braces or taping if they are not currently injured or recovering from injury. Those athletes that are " healthy " or uninjured should rely on the body's on defense systems. Proprioception is the main defense systems around body joints. When we start to push a joint past its ROM receptors around the joint let the appropriate muscles know and they contract, hopefully protecting the joint in time. When they can't protect it in time or aren't strong enough then ligaments are a final protection but are quite often torn or at least strained if the force is large enough. The forces that are required to SERIOUSLY deform most ligaments are very large and most bracing techniques will not be useful in protecting the body from this anyway. Therefore it seems to me that, as Mel states, it would be wiser to train the body to protect itself. Another issue with bracing is its effect on other parts of the body. I recently read a study which examined different ankle stabilizers and their effects on joint kinematics during drop landings. Basically what was found that all except two of the conditions tested (one brace and no brace at all) seriously affected ankle joint ROM in the sagittal (?) plane, e.g. plantar and dorsiflexion as well as the desired eversion/inversion. What does this mean? Well, according to the authors, more energy transferred to the knees and hips rather than being absorbed by the plantarflexors. (Hello knee surgery!). This has large implications for chronic ankle brace wearers but also has implications for the move from high and mid cut basketball shoes back to low cut shoes in an attempt to provide lateral support without compromising our energy absorbing capabilities. Ben Haines Townsville, Australia. ------------- Mel Siff: > [in this case the braces may offer more prioprioceptive assistance than > actual support, so he/she might simply consider using something like powerlifting > wraps. Many lifters have found that one appears to be able to exert more force and > react in a more stable fashion even with fairly loose wraps below or about the knees. > At some stage, some used to think that so-called McConnell taping in physio actually offered > mechanical restraint to the movement of the patella in the patellofemoral notch of > the knee, but it now appears that any improvement in knee function is due to > enhanced proprioception. The chronic wearing of non-essential braces may lead to > the establishment of inefficient motor patterns when they are not worn, so it would > be a wiser idea to train the knees and motor skills as effectively as possible to cope > with all the likely stresses and strains of competition. ] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 wrote: My opinion about bracing (or taping) is mixed but my opinion about footwear is not. Since this discussion about bracing as apparently gone in the direction of proprioception and wether it is helped or hindered by by bracing, here are two excerpts from www.barefooters.org which might shed some light on this subject. I'd be hardpressed to tell anyone to play basketball barefooted of course, but the following might show what might be truly hindering proprioception and stability... Robbins, Waked, and Ron Rappel. " Ankle taping improves proprioception before and after exercise in young men, " British Journal of Sports Medicine, 29(4), 1995, pp. 242-247. Ankle sprains are common sports injuries. Inadequate awareness is thought to be the fundamental cause of these injuries. Ankle taping may decrease the risk of injury through improving foot postition awareness. .... While taping improves foot position sense when humans wear athletic footwear, it remains poor compared to the barefoot condition if we use barefoot pre-exercise data available from a previous report for comparison. Absolute foot position error was 4.11°, 3.13°, anmd 1.96° for athletic footwear, athletic footwear taped, and barefoot, respectively. Therefore when compared to the barefoot condition, foot position awareness was 107.5% worse in uptaped subjects with athletic footwear, and 58.1% worse in ankle taped subjects wearing athletic footwear. .... The inescapable conclusion is that footwear use is ultimately responsible for ankle injury. The conclusion is consistent with observations made among populations where barefoot activity is the norm. Ankle sprains are uncommon in these groups. .... From another perspective it suggests that most ankle injuries are not inherent to sport, but rather are caused by footwear. Stacoff, Jürg Steger, Edgar Stüssi, and Christoph Reinschmidt. " Lateral stability in sideward cutting movements, " Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 28(3), 1996, pp. 350- 358. With respect to leverage, the barefoot situation has an advantage over the shod situation. The shoe sole increases the lever arm and as a consequence the moment about the subtalar joint. .... All other shoes had one result in common: torsion increased from touchdown to maximum, which, given similar forefoot angles, is equivalent to an inversion moment of the rearfoot relative to the forefoot. Such a movement is not welcomed to improve the lateral stability. .... When looking at the forefoot, there are two different landing techniques that can be observed. Barefooted " the flat-foot approach " is chosen by lowering the metatarsals parallel to the ground. With shoes the medial border of the forefoot touches the ground first causing a forefoot angle of around 20°. Within a time span of 40 ms the forefoot is then lowered toward the ground thereby rolling over the medial border of the shoe sole. In other words, a " rolling approach " can be observed with shoes. .... Inversion is mostly reduced in the barefoot condition. .... The best lateral stability can be observed in the barefoot condition. As an additionnal note, remember that taping usually loses its properties after a mere 10 minutes of play. From there on then, it probably works only in helping proprioception. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I am very much convinced that it won't make it so that more energy is transfered to the knees on landing. Same thing with braces although it depends on the type (Active Ankle, ASO, figure-8 straps...) which is why it would be important to know what kind exactly they used in the research you quote. I have NEVER injured my ankles in 15 years of playing basketball when wearing tape or braces and the opposite is quite true. Sometimes it takes relatively nothing (hitting your defender with you foot on a fade away jump shot and as such, hitting the ground awkwardly when landing...) and braces can help improving foot positioning in the air prior to landing. I am not saying that this is proof that braces are THE way to go, but from my personal point of view, they are MY way to go. Unless everyone was to go barefoot on the court... Lépine Vancouver BC > Quoting djtrigger2002@y...: > > > Dr Siff and group > > > > What are the group's feelings about braces for extra support and > > stability. Do they hinder the athlete in terms of jumping ability > > and change of direction? Or does the support outweigh the limited > > joint action? Would love to hear the groups comments. I was > > thinking along the lines of ankle braces and knee braces. Also, I > > am not talking about an athlete who has had previous ACL or MCL > > tears. Just wants support > > **** My opinion is with respect to ankle braces, as I have had most experience > with those via basketball. I definitely do not agree with athletes wearing > braces or taping if they are not currently injured or recovering from injury. > > Those athletes that are " healthy " or uninjured should rely on the body's on > defense systems. Proprioception is the main defense systems around body > joints. When we start to push a joint past its ROM receptors around the joint > let the appropriate muscles know and they contract, hopefully protecting the > joint in time. When they can't protect it in time or aren't strong enough then > ligaments are a final protection but are quite often torn or at least strained > if the force is large enough. The forces that are required to SERIOUSLY deform > most ligaments are very large and most bracing techniques will not be useful in > protecting the body from this anyway. Therefore it seems to me that, as Mel > states, it would be wiser to train the body to protect itself. > > Another issue with bracing is its effect on other parts of the body. I > recently read a study which examined different ankle stabilizers and their > effects on joint kinematics during drop landings. Basically what was found > that all except two of the conditions tested (one brace and no brace at all) > seriously affected ankle joint ROM in the sagittal (?) plane, e.g. plantar and > dorsiflexion as well as the desired eversion/inversion. > > What does this mean? Well, according to the authors, more energy transferred to > the knees and hips rather than being absorbed by the plantarflexors. (Hello > knee surgery!). This has large implications for chronic ankle brace wearers > but also has implications for the move from high and mid cut basketball shoes > back to low cut shoes in an attempt to provide lateral support without > compromising our energy absorbing capabilities. > > > Ben Haines > Townsville, Australia. > > ------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 Quoting Éric Lépine <eric707@...>: > wrote: > > My opinion about bracing (or taping) is mixed but my opinion about > footwear is not. Since this discussion about bracing as apparently > gone in the direction of proprioception and wether it is helped or > hindered by by bracing, here are two excerpts from > www.barefooters.org which might shed some light on this subject. I'd > be hardpressed to tell anyone to play basketball barefooted of > course, but the following might show what might be truly hindering > proprioception and stability... > > Robbins, Waked, and Ron Rappel. " Ankle taping improves > proprioception before and after exercise in young men, " British > Journal of Sports Medicine, 29(4), 1995, pp. 242-247. > > Ankle sprains are common sports injuries. Inadequate awareness is > thought to be the fundamental cause of these injuries. Ankle taping > may decrease the risk of injury through improving foot postition > awareness. > ... > While taping improves foot position sense when humans wear athletic > footwear, it remains poor compared to the barefoot condition if we > use barefoot pre-exercise data available from a previous report for > comparison. Absolute foot position error was 4.11°, 3.13°, anmd 1.96° > for athletic footwear, athletic footwear taped, and barefoot, > respectively. Therefore when compared to the barefoot condition, foot > position awareness was 107.5% worse in uptaped subjects with athletic > footwear, and 58.1% worse in ankle taped subjects wearing athletic > footwear. > ... > The inescapable conclusion is that footwear use is ultimately > responsible for ankle injury. The conclusion is consistent with > observations made among populations where barefoot activity is the > norm. Ankle sprains are uncommon in these groups. > ... > From another perspective it suggests that most ankle injuries are not > inherent to sport, but rather are caused by footwear. > > Stacoff, Jürg Steger, Edgar Stüssi, and Christoph > Reinschmidt. " Lateral stability in sideward cutting movements, " > Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 28(3), 1996, pp. 350- > 358. > > With respect to leverage, the barefoot situation has an advantage > over the shod situation. The shoe sole increases the lever arm and as > a consequence the moment about the subtalar joint. > ... > All other shoes had one result in common: torsion increased from > touchdown to maximum, which, given similar forefoot angles, is > equivalent to an inversion moment of the rearfoot relative to the > forefoot. Such a movement is not welcomed to improve the lateral > stability. > ... > When looking at the forefoot, there are two different landing > techniques that can be observed. Barefooted " the flat-foot approach " > is chosen by lowering the metatarsals parallel to the ground. With > shoes the medial border of the forefoot touches the ground first > causing a forefoot angle of around 20°. Within a time span of 40 ms > the forefoot is then lowered toward the ground thereby rolling over > the medial border of the shoe sole. In other words, a " rolling > approach " can be observed with shoes. > ... > Inversion is mostly reduced in the barefoot condition. **** I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me if so but if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as the major problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an eversion sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take place.**** > The best lateral stability can be observed in the barefoot condition. > > As an additionnal note, remember that taping usually loses its > properties after a mere 10 minutes of play. From there on then, it > probably works only in helping proprioception. I don't know if this > is good or bad, but I am very much convinced that it won't make it so > that more energy is transfered to the knees on landing. Same thing > with braces although it depends on the type (Active Ankle, ASO, > figure-8 straps...) which is why it would be important to know what > kind exactly they used in the research you quote. **** Sorry I actually meant to post the reference in my previous post but forgot so here it is. McCaw, S. Cerullo, JF. (1999). " Prophylactic ankle stabilizers affect ankle joint kinematics during drop landings " . Med Sci Sports Exerc, Vol 31, No 5, pp 702 - 707. The conditions tested were 1. no bracing, 2. taped using a modified Gibney closed basketweave with two heel locks, 3. lace-up boot style stabilizer (Swede-O-Universal), 4. two semi rigid plastic outer shells hinged to a plastic stirrup at the malleoli (Aircast Sport Stirrup), 5. same as #4 but different brand (Cramer Active Ankle). Unfortunatlely the research is a little dated so as the authors noted most of these models have been superseeded by newer models. Of all these Active ankle performed the best compared with the no brace situation. A main point of this study I guess is that the authors draw comparison between numbers that they obtain and a previous study on a similar topic. Devita, P. Skelly, WA. (1992). " Effect of landing stiffness on joint kinetics and energies in the lower extremity " . Med Sci Sports Exerc, Vol 24, pp 108 - 115. This study examined the kinetics and kinematics of soft and stiff landings after a drop. Soft was characterised by as much knee and hip flexion as needed by subject and stiff by as little as possible knee and hip flexion as possible (you have to feel sorry for the poor subject who volunteered for that). Basically, (I think) after reading both articles. The authors suggest that some stabilisers can have the same effect as landing stiffly (eg limited knee and hip flexion). Obviously they state this as undesirable. It is definitely a difficult subject however with more research needed. Especially as you say that tape (and stabilisers can often loosen during activity and the first study performed their trials straight after application and not after exercise.***** I have NEVER > injured my ankles in 15 years of playing basketball when wearing tape > or braces and the opposite is quite true. Sometimes it takes > relatively nothing (hitting your defender with you foot on a fade > away jump shot and as such, hitting the ground awkwardly when > landing...) and braces can help improving foot positioning in the air > prior to landing. **** Again I will speak from personal experience as I have no references to back this up. The occasions you speak of are all times when the contact occurs in the air. This foot positioning in the air is something that I would take for granted and wouldn't rely on taping or stabilisers to provide me with. In my basketball playing career I have injured my ankles badly about 4 times. Each time was when landing on an opponents foot (usually against chumps who run into you whilst your shooting). This type of landing has always resulted in serious eversion sprains for me personally. I have never landed on an opponents foot whilst wearing tape or a stabiliser but I fail to beleive that it would provide me with the support needed to survive such an incident although I could be wrong. However for a stabiliser to be that tight to be effective it would probably affect normal ROM anyway I'm assuming.**** > I am not saying that this is proof that braces are > THE way to go, but from my personal point of view, they are MY way to > go. Unless everyone was to go barefoot on the court... **** Everyone barefoot on the court hey? You might not be saying that if you saw some of the festy toenails sported by some of my team mates. Besides, what are you trying to do, eliminate a huge advertising and money making opportunity for shoe companys? They have a hard enough time scraping by as it is.***** Ben Haines Townsville, Australia > Lépine > Vancouver BC > > > > Quoting djtrigger2002@y...: > > > > > Dr Siff and group > > > > > > What are the group's feelings about braces for extra support and > > > stability. Do they hinder the athlete in terms of jumping > ability > > > and change of direction? Or does the support outweigh the > limited > > > joint action? Would love to hear the groups comments. I was > > > thinking along the lines of ankle braces and knee braces. Also, > I > > > am not talking about an athlete who has had previous ACL or MCL > > > tears. Just wants support > > > > **** My opinion is with respect to ankle braces, as I have had most > experience > > with those via basketball. I definitely do not agree with athletes > wearing > > braces or taping if they are not currently injured or recovering > from injury. > > > > Those athletes that are " healthy " or uninjured should rely on the > body's on > > defense systems. Proprioception is the main defense systems around > body > > joints. When we start to push a joint past its ROM receptors > around the joint > > let the appropriate muscles know and they contract, hopefully > protecting the > > joint in time. When they can't protect it in time or aren't strong > enough then > > ligaments are a final protection but are quite often torn or at > least strained > > if the force is large enough. The forces that are required to > SERIOUSLY deform > > most ligaments are very large and most bracing techniques will not > be useful in > > protecting the body from this anyway. Therefore it seems to me > that, as Mel > > states, it would be wiser to train the body to protect itself. > > > > Another issue with bracing is its effect on other parts of the > body. I > > recently read a study which examined different ankle stabilizers > and their > > effects on joint kinematics during drop landings. Basically what > was found > > that all except two of the conditions tested (one brace and no > brace at all) > > seriously affected ankle joint ROM in the sagittal (?) plane, e.g. > plantar and > > dorsiflexion as well as the desired eversion/inversion. > > > > What does this mean? Well, according to the authors, more energy > transferred to > > the knees and hips rather than being absorbed by the > plantarflexors. (Hello > > knee surgery!). This has large implications for chronic ankle > brace wearers > > but also has implications for the move from high and mid cut > basketball shoes > > back to low cut shoes in an attempt to provide lateral support > without > > compromising our energy absorbing capabilities. > > > > > > Ben Haines > > Townsville, Australia. > > > > ------------- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2001 Report Share Posted November 29, 2001 Quoting .Haines@... wrote: “In my basketball playing career I have injured my ankles badly about 4 times. Each time was when landing on an opponents foot (usually against chumps who run into you whilst your shooting). This type of landing has always resulted in serious eversion sprains for me personally. I have never landed on an opponents foot whilst wearing tape or a stabiliser but I fail to beleive that it would provide me with the support needed to survive such an incident although I could be wrong. However for a stabiliser to be that tight to be effective it would probably affect normal ROM anyway I'm assuming.” I agree. I have injured my ankles a number of times playing basketball in the same manner. Post injury and therapy, I used to strap my ankles and brace them and was still able to enervate them running in a straight line. Only after having my muscle balances corrected on an isokinetic machine was I able to play again without twisting my ankle and I did not require bracing or strapping. Greg London, United Kingdom __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 It was written: <I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me if so but if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as the major problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an eversion sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take place.> Slipped out of my head that I needed to answer to this... Ah well, better late than never I guess. When " rolling " your foot and in nearly 90% of all ankle injuries, an overinversion or lateral sprain occurs. During inversion, the foot is adducted and directed so that its medial border is raised and its lateral border is depressed. In other words, inversion directs the sole of the foot toward the median plane of the body. Eversion is the opposite. I don't know about you Ben, but I'm pretty sure when you sprained your ankle, it was an inversion sprain. (Not that I hope you would, but at least it's a bit better...) The strong deltoid (medial) ligament and the lower medial malleolus tend to prevent overeversion of the foot and as such, is very rarely seen. It requires such force to medially inverse your ankle that it will usually be accompanied by a fracture or more frequently, complete tearing of the deltoid ligament. Just a clarification... [Maybe the problem here is misunderstanding of the various definitions used to describe foot actions, a topic that I discussed here not so long ago with respect to " pronation " and " inversion " , etc. The word " inversion " , which contains the prefix " in " may suggest to some people that this refers to a rolling in of the foot, whereas, in fact, it refers to the opposite situation where the foot rolls outward and more pronounced supination occurs. As I mentioned earlier, the wearing of shoes with elevated heels increases the tendency for this problem to occur. Mel Siff] Lépine Vanvouver BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 > It was written: > > <I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me if so but > if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as the major > problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an eversion > sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take place.> > > Slipped out of my head that I needed to answer to this... Ah well, > better late than never I guess. > > When " rolling " your foot and in nearly 90% of all ankle injuries, an > overinversion or lateral sprain occurs. During inversion, the foot > is adducted and directed so that its medial border is raised and its > lateral border is depressed. In other words, inversion directs the > sole of the foot toward the median plane of the body. Eversion is > the opposite. > > I don't know about you Ben, but I'm pretty sure when > you sprained your ankle, it was an inversion sprain. (Not that I hope > you would, but at least it's a bit better...) The strong deltoid > (medial) ligament and the lower medial malleolus tend to prevent > overeversion of the foot and as such, is very rarely seen. It > requires such force to medially inverse your ankle that it will > usually be accompanied by a fracture or more frequently, complete > tearing of the deltoid ligament. Just a clarification... > > [Maybe the problem here is misunderstanding of the various definitions > used to describe foot actions, a topic that I discussed here not so long ago with respect > to " pronation " and " inversion " , etc. The word " inversion " , which contains the > prefix " in " may suggest to some people that this refers to a rolling in of the foot, > whereas, in fact, it refers to the opposite situation where the foot rolls outward > and more pronounced supination occurs. Mel Siff] > It is indeed confusing... Here I am refering to several anatomy and musculoskeletal assessment textbooks in defining the different foot actions. EVERSION of the foot moves the sole away from the median plane and so occurs when the sole faces inferolaterally. INVERSION of the foot moves the sole toward the median plane, meaning the sole faces inferomedially. This is why I said that most ankle injuries happen when overinversion occurs. In general, pronation or supination of the foot are not recognized officially but when they are used, pronation refers to eversion an abduction, and supination refers to inversion and adduction. Pronation and supination are usually reserved when describing the movement of the forearm and hand that rotates the radius medially or laterally around its long axis. Lépine Vancouver BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Quoting boubou707 <eric707@...>: > > > It was written: > > > > <I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me > if so but > > if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as > the major > > problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an > eversion > > sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take > place.> > > > > Slipped out of my head that I needed to answer to this... Ah well, > > better late than never I guess. > > > > When " rolling " your foot and in nearly 90% of all ankle injuries, > an > > overinversion or lateral sprain occurs. During inversion, the foot > > is adducted and directed so that its medial border is raised and > its > > lateral border is depressed. In other words, inversion directs the > > sole of the foot toward the median plane of the body. Eversion is > > the opposite. > > > > I don't know about you Ben, but I'm pretty sure when > > you sprained your ankle, it was an inversion sprain. (Not that I > hope > > you would, but at least it's a bit better...) The strong deltoid > > (medial) ligament and the lower medial malleolus tend to prevent > > overeversion of the foot and as such, is very rarely seen. It > > requires such force to medially inverse your ankle that it will > > usually be accompanied by a fracture or more frequently, complete > > tearing of the deltoid ligament. Just a clarification... ***** Thanks for picking that up . Guess that's what happens if you write these letters in a hurry and don't take the proper time to read everything you've written. Indeed it was an inversion sprain and I can only thank my lucky stars that I have never had (and never wish to) an eversion sprain. A referee friend of mine did this once. I wouldn't call it a sprain mind you but rather a compound fracture. Not a pretty sight. Ben Haines Townsville, Australia. > > [Maybe the problem here is misunderstanding of the various > definitions > > used to describe foot actions, a topic that I discussed here not so > long ago with respect > > to " pronation " and " inversion " , etc. The word " inversion " , which > contains the > > prefix " in " may suggest to some people that this refers to a > rolling in of the foot, > > whereas, in fact, it refers to the opposite situation where the > foot rolls outward > > and more pronounced supination occurs. Mel Siff] > > > > It is indeed confusing... Here I am refering to several anatomy and > musculoskeletal assessment textbooks in defining the different foot > actions. > > EVERSION of the foot moves the sole away from the median plane and so > occurs when the sole faces inferolaterally. > > INVERSION of the foot moves the sole toward the median plane, meaning > the sole faces inferomedially. This is why I said that most ankle > injuries happen when overinversion occurs. > > In general, pronation or supination of the foot are not recognized > officially but when they are used, pronation refers to eversion an > abduction, and supination refers to inversion and adduction. > Pronation and supination are usually reserved when describing the > movement of the forearm and hand that rotates the radius medially or > laterally around its long axis. > > Lépine > Vancouver BC > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hi AJ, I have a Don Joy custom unloader brace, which is titanium, to shift the weight in my knee to help with the pain. I don't use it a lot yet because I just had knee surgery, but I was surprised with how much it did help. The brace itself is very light weight. I do have some problems with it slipping down my leg....because I have legs rather like a piano leg...I have grade 4 chondromalacia in my knee, so anything that will help I will try. Hope that helps a little. Pat At 07:51 PM 4/13/03 +0000, ilovsofbal wrote: >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > >AJ > > > >Sponsor<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=\ 1705132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556 & l\ ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 I'm not familiar with your brace, but I do understand the slipping part....I have a Breg brace...to stop the slipping, I have a sleeve that is made for use under the brace for comfort, no scratching, itching, sweating or slipping.... Mona Re: braces Hi AJ, I have a Don Joy custom unloader brace, which is titanium, to shift the weight in my knee to help with the pain. I don't use it a lot yet because I just had knee surgery, but I was surprised with how much it did help. The brace itself is very light weight. I do have some problems with it slipping down my leg....because I have legs rather like a piano leg...I have grade 4 chondromalacia in my knee, so anything that will help I will try. Hope that helps a little. Pat At 07:51 PM 4/13/03 +0000, ilovsofbal wrote: >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > >AJ > > > >Sponsor< http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=17051 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556 <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556 & l ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2003 Report Share Posted April 16, 2003 Mona, Which Breg Brace do you have??? AJ > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > > > >AJ > > > > > > > >Sponsor< > http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/ S=17051 > 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir? camp=556 > <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb /S=1705 > 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir? camp=556 & l > ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 The model I have is the PTO - it is a patella femoral - you can go online to breg brace and check out patella femoral bracing and it has several braces to choose from.....unfortunately, both of my knees have a lateral and bi-lateral subluxation problem.....I was wearing both braces for about 9 months and kind of got tired of it......so in frustration put them away......I am currently wearing the one for my left knee again and will probably break out the other one soon. My thought was, by wearing the braces on a day in day out basis, perhaps I was weakening my knees (ligaments, tendons muscles) so I thought lets not wear them for a while and see what happens.....what I have discovered thru this latest trial period is I have to be more careful how I bend my knees, or get up from a bent position because I feel it right away, and the knee burns for hours, in addition to the stabbing pains....hence the need for the brace again...... Hope this helps you out. Mona Re: braces Mona, Which Breg Brace do you have??? AJ > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > > > >AJ > > > > > > > >Sponsor< > http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/ <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/> S=17051 > 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir? <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> camp=556 > < http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb> /S=1705 > 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir? <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> camp=556 & l > ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 What do you mean by " both of my knees have ... a bilateral subluxation problem " ? Ann RE: braces The model I have is the PTO - it is a patella femoral - you can go online to breg brace and check out patella femoral bracing and it has several braces to choose from.....unfortunately, both of my knees have a lateral and bi-lateral subluxation problem.....I was wearing both braces for about 9 months and kind of got tired of it......so in frustration put them away......I am currently wearing the one for my left knee again and will probably break out the other one soon. My thought was, by wearing the braces on a day in day out basis, perhaps I was weakening my knees (ligaments, tendons muscles) so I thought lets not wear them for a while and see what happens.....what I have discovered thru this latest trial period is I have to be more careful how I bend my knees, or get up from a bent position because I feel it right away, and the knee burns for hours, in addition to the stabbing pains....hence the need for the brace again...... Hope this helps you out. Mona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 Mona, I was looking to try and get away from Neoprene....take a look at the new x2k-Pto....its new this year...Thanks...let me know what you think... AJ > > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or > > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > > > > > >AJ > > > > > > > > > > > >Sponsor< > > > http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/ > <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb /> > S=17051 > > 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi- bin/autoredir? > <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> > camp=556 > > > < http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb > <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb > > /S=1705 > > 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi- bin/autoredir? > <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> > camp=556 & l > > ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 My file was sent to a surgeon in California, who had pieces of the puzzle as to what was going on with both knees, what he didn't have however was a CT Scan, this was completed by having my legs straight with no bend, then continually at varying degrees such as 15, 30, 45 etc etc.....until I had them completely bent. The final diagnoses was that I have lateral subluxation and bi-lateral subluxation of both knees, and as it was explained to me, or I should say as I understood it......lets say with a 15 degree bend, I was getting a lateral subluxation, as my knees were bent more, it was bi-laterally subluxating which means it had the same amount of pressure on both sides of the knee to cause the dislocation......this is why it was determined that a lateral release would not give me any real relief. Dr. Gambardella still wants to scope my left knee (which is the worst one right now), the reason for this is two-fold, #1 to see if I am a possible candidate for the Carticel articular cartilage surgery, and to see how much or if I have osteoarthritis in my knee and to finally see if his suspicions are correct in having to do a TTT. The Carticel surgery cannot be completed if there is to much osteoarthritis present. Now with all that said, at present I have elected not to have any additional scoping or surgery of either of my knees, because like anything else, you can get a million different diagnoses......or fixes....I'll just wait... I went to a pain clinic two weeks ago, not only for my knees, but I have shoulder,hips, back and mid-feet problems as well (although my feet don't hurt...and since my back is presently rodded, that doesn't hurt).....This was all found when I had a whole body bone scan because of a lot of pain in different parts of my body......the doc at the pain clinic immediately said my entire problem in arthritis and he had no idea why I was sent to him......he prescribed a strong dose of arthrotec, because I rec'd no kind of relief from anything else I was prescribed or given.....I do have an appt with a Rheumatologist next week and a hip specialist in three weeks....and the saga continues.... Mona Re: braces What do you mean by " both of my knees have ... a bilateral subluxation problem " ? Ann RE: braces The model I have is the PTO - it is a patella femoral - you can go online to breg brace and check out patella femoral bracing and it has several braces to choose from.....unfortunately, both of my knees have a lateral and bi-lateral subluxation problem.....I was wearing both braces for about 9 months and kind of got tired of it......so in frustration put them away......I am currently wearing the one for my left knee again and will probably break out the other one soon. My thought was, by wearing the braces on a day in day out basis, perhaps I was weakening my knees (ligaments, tendons muscles) so I thought lets not wear them for a while and see what happens.....what I have discovered thru this latest trial period is I have to be more careful how I bend my knees, or get up from a bent position because I feel it right away, and the knee burns for hours, in addition to the stabbing pains....hence the need for the brace again...... Hope this helps you out. Mona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 It looks pretty hi-tech, actually the PTO that I have is not neoprene it is the air mesh, I tried a neoprene one prior to receiving these and it was uncomfortable and it made behind my knee sweat, for comfort I wear a sleeve under my braces and as comfort goes they are pretty comfortable. Mona Re: braces Mona, I was looking to try and get away from Neoprene....take a look at the new x2k-Pto....its new this year...Thanks...let me know what you think... AJ > > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or > > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > > > > > >AJ > > > > > > > > > > > >Sponsor< > > > http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/ <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/> > < http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb> /> > S=17051 > > 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi- <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-> bin/autoredir? > < http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir? <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> > > camp=556 > > > < http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb> > < http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb <http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb> > > /S=1705 > > 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi- <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-> bin/autoredir? > < http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir? <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> > > camp=556 & l > > ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 I am very new to this. I dont know that there were grades to CP. My MRI said " moderately severe " chondromalacia. What are the different grades and how do i know which one i fall in. > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > > > >AJ > > > > > > > >Sponsor<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=eg roupweb/S=1705132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi- bin/autoredir?camp=556 & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 This site defines them pretty clearly: http://www.physicaltherapywebsites.com/library/ch14/chondromalacia.asp Ann Re: braces I am very new to this. I dont know that there were grades to CP. My MRI said " moderately severe " chondromalacia. What are the different grades and how do i know which one i fall in. > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back... > > > >AJ > > > > > > > >Sponsor<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=eg roupweb/S=1705132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi- bin/autoredir?camp=556 & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 , Braces are really meant to stop the progression of a curve or to hold the curve. Serial Corrective plaster Casts are meant to lessen the curve. They are a series of casts that teach the spine to grow straight. It's late someone help me with this since is out of town. Tawney? Celia? ? Bridgette? I always want to respond to you but I think I am having a tired "blonde moment." LOL Crista Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 , is in his 2nd cast, 3rd cast will be applied next week! No, he has not had chest wall deformity. I guess if I had to choose I would pick that over a back deformity and breathing problems. If you ask me that is just an excuse from the Dr. If you send me your # I will call you today. Crista Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 , We can talk on the phone whenever you want. I will be gone this a.m., but will around as soon as I am sure that my grandma has made it through this endo scope procedure. E-mail me privately, and we can exchange #'s. talk soon, HRH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Hi . The question I can provide feedback on is about the physical therapy...I went to 12 sessions of PT over 6 weeks and I found that it did help improve my condition. I too have strong thigh and calf muscles, but I think it is more about stretching those muscles with the PT in addition to the gradual strength training. The key is that once your prescribed PT is completed, you need to keep up on the stretches and exercises that are given to you, this should relieve some of the grinding in the knee. It sounds like we have a similar reaction to this condition...no real pain yet, but the cracking and grinding is there and it's uncomfortable. I hope by finding out about having this condition now, will aleivate more pain in the future. I hope this helps and I KNOW there are other members in this " community " that can provide more insight to this condition. - > Hi, > I just joined the group. I've been having knee problems for about 7 > mos now, and had been going to a physiatrist, but he wasn't really > helping me - he just kept putting me on drugs. I finally left and > went to an orthopedist who was recommended to mr. I went to him on > Monday, and he diagnosed me right away with chondromalacia (after > doing online research, it fits my symptoms exactly). He prescribed a > certain brace for me and told me to rest for 2 weeks and take > physical therapy. Although I'm glad to finally have a real diagnosis > and a treatment plan, he didn't really let me get many questions in > during my appointment, and now he's on vacation for a week. One > thing I really need to know about right now is whether there's a big > difference between the $30 braces and the $75 ones. He prescribed a > palumbo brace, which besides being expensive, I have to be measured > and then they have to order it....by the time I get it, my two weeks > of rest will be gone. So I was wondering, would a brace from a drug > store (such as the Mueller hinged brace) be just as effective? > > Also, since I can't ask my doc right now, I'm hoping someone here > could give me some insight. Although I've had this problem for a > long time, and haven't taken very good care of it till now, my knees > haven't been hurting in a long time, other than occasionally. My > main issue is the grinding when I go down steps, sit, squat, etc. > There's rarely any real pain. I'm hoping this means that I don't > have it very severe, and even though I've had it for quite some time > now, that I could get back to all my favorite activities. > > Also...do basic physical therapy exercises (ie. leg raises) really > do much for someone who already works out and has pretty strong > thigh muscles, or is it just going backwards to do these exercises > with no weight? > > Thanks for any help and sorry for the long email...just looking for > some answers besides generic websites. > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hi, Thanks for replying. I'm still not sure whether the PT exercises are doing anything for me that wasn't being done before. In addition to all my other exercise, I've been taking pilates for about a year now, so my hamstrings get a lot of stretching. The exercises they're giving me are better than doing absolutely nothing, but I feel that my leg muscles are getting weaker during my prescribed 2-week rest period. Also, some of the exercises are ones that I would normally try to avoid, b/c they cause the grinding. I feel like over the 7 mos I've had it, i've gotten to know my body and which exercises aggravate and it which ones don't. But now it's all changed since the physical therapy - I feel I can't figure out what's good for it and what's bad! Not only that, my knees have been bothering me more during this time than they ever have before. Is this normal? Is it one of things that has to get worse before getting better? B/c I've rarely had any pain from walking, yet this past week walking is bothering my knees. They're also grinding more than they ever have when I go downstairs and squat. Should I be concerned about this or just follow through with the rest of the 2-weeks despite my discomforts? Thanks for any help. - Re: Braces Hi . The question I can provide feedback on is about the physical therapy...I went to 12 sessions of PT over 6 weeks and I found that it did help improve my condition. I too have strong thigh and calf muscles, but I think it is more about stretching those muscles with the PT in addition to the gradual strength training. The key is that once your prescribed PT is completed, you need to keep up on the stretches and exercises that are given to you, this should relieve some of the grinding in the knee. It sounds like we have a similar reaction to this condition...no real pain yet, but the cracking and grinding is there and it's uncomfortable. I hope by finding out about having this condition now, will aleivate more pain in the future. I hope this helps and I KNOW there are other members in this " community " that can provide more insight to this condition. - > Hi, > I just joined the group. I've been having knee problems for about 7 > mos now, and had been going to a physiatrist, but he wasn't really > helping me - he just kept putting me on drugs. I finally left and > went to an orthopedist who was recommended to mr. I went to him on > Monday, and he diagnosed me right away with chondromalacia (after > doing online research, it fits my symptoms exactly). He prescribed a > certain brace for me and told me to rest for 2 weeks and take > physical therapy. Although I'm glad to finally have a real diagnosis > and a treatment plan, he didn't really let me get many questions in > during my appointment, and now he's on vacation for a week. One > thing I really need to know about right now is whether there's a big > difference between the $30 braces and the $75 ones. He prescribed a > palumbo brace, which besides being expensive, I have to be measured > and then they have to order it....by the time I get it, my two weeks > of rest will be gone. So I was wondering, would a brace from a drug > store (such as the Mueller hinged brace) be just as effective? > > Also, since I can't ask my doc right now, I'm hoping someone here > could give me some insight. Although I've had this problem for a > long time, and haven't taken very good care of it till now, my knees > haven't been hurting in a long time, other than occasionally. My > main issue is the grinding when I go down steps, sit, squat, etc. > There's rarely any real pain. I'm hoping this means that I don't > have it very severe, and even though I've had it for quite some time > now, that I could get back to all my favorite activities. > > Also...do basic physical therapy exercises (ie. leg raises) really > do much for someone who already works out and has pretty strong > thigh muscles, or is it just going backwards to do these exercises > with no weight? > > Thanks for any help and sorry for the long email...just looking for > some answers besides generic websites. > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 If your feeling your legs are getting weaker. Then you might want to have a serious talk with your pt person. Write up your old exercises you use to do, and then right up your current put exercises. Have your pt review them. They should be able to guide you in safe exercises to work the muscles you mention are getting weaker. My last session of pt for my knees, screwed me up even worse than I went in because i ended up hurting my back and pulling some things, because i was told to stop a lot of things I was doing, and hence some low back, and butt muscles were diminishing. WIth them telling me not to do x,y,z but not replacing the exercises with comperable ones that would still work those areas. This guy told me to avoid all steps, avoid doing way to many things. Which in turn made my legs even weaker, and I was in more pain. In hind sight i should have bounced that guy and requested another pt. I was telling him, i was starting to get lower back pain, and each time it was getting worse. I told him I'd stopped some of my leg workout which also worked the low back and butt. Told him what i had been doing. To which i got a blank stare. If your getting a blank stare, i'd ask to see another pt. I really hate to say this, but some pt places are use to working with people who are only couch and computer sitting all day and do no exercise. If your not that type of regular person, then you need someone who is more flexible and creative with helping you out. Some of its the insurance, they are only suppose to work the " knee area " . So that might be why they don't address total body fitness. So, they think the basic exercises are going to get you strong and better because they think your in a chair all day and don't do anything else. You might have a weak muscle in there, so find out exactly which muscles they are trying to get strong with which exercise. Find out if you are allowed to do any substitute exercises to keep using your muscles which you think are shrinking. You need to pay attention to the butt and upper leg muscle mass which you may be loosing. My itband pain got worse during my last session of pt, because i lost 3/4 of my upper leg muscle in pt. Then after pulling something in my back, i could literal do almost nothing for several weeks, and i still have pain from it. If you have a bad feeling, don't ignore it. Your paying, your insurance is paying, get your monies worth. Look around the pt place, you may spot someone who looks more athletically inclined, more into watching the peoples form. Someone who doesn't have you do the exact same exercises every single time. Sometimes the people most willing to help you are the PT's that are into some type of sports themselves. Some pts are also personal trainers, might want to look for one of those. I've also found the number of reps they have you do, aren't enough. If your doing so many reps and its easy, then talk to your pt, for ways to make the exercise more challenging. Weights, a different, heavier theraband, etc. One place tended to give me exercises with therabands. One place had me do ankle weights for some exercises. I found they did better for me. When i cranked up the reps, i noticed more of difference and it helped. Its all about personal preference. (For when your working inner and outer thigh things) You do the motions differently with the different aperatus, but gets the stuff done. Also are you letting them know that some of the exercises are making things hurt worse!! If its hurting, and its not a muscle sore pain, thats not good. If your muscles are getting tired, and that is the muscle soreness, thats ok. But bad knee pain shouldn't be experienced during pt. Are they taping your knee, or showing you how to do the mc connel taping? Sometimes it helps, for others it doesn't help at all. If you get a lame excuse be warned some pt's make up crappy excuses when in reality they don't know how to do the taping, and won't just flat out admit they don't know how to tape. My first pt didn't know how to, gave me a run around, when I requested a pt change, that lady showed me. The first pt was telling me i needed an rx from the doc, and this and that, the second pt, said you don't need that stuff. It seems PT's are just like any other job. You get some really shining stars, great caring people, and you get others who are just punching in and punching out. Connie > > Hi, > > I just joined the group. I've been having knee problems for about > 7 > > mos now, and had been going to a physiatrist, but he wasn't really > > helping me - he just kept putting me on drugs. I finally left and > > went to an orthopedist who was recommended to mr. I went to him on > > Monday, and he diagnosed me right away with chondromalacia (after > > doing online research, it fits my symptoms exactly). He prescribed > a > > certain brace for me and told me to rest for 2 weeks and take > > physical therapy. Although I'm glad to finally have a real > diagnosis > > and a treatment plan, he didn't really let me get many questions > in > > during my appointment, and now he's on vacation for a week. One > > thing I really need to know about right now is whether there's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Thanks for the thorough reply I am going to a different PT place tomorrow than I went to for the first three sessions. I started going by my doc's office just b/c they were able to take me right away. But there's a place 10 blocks away from my house (nice short walk that shouldn't be a problem for my knees) and I'm pretty sure they're more sports-oriented. I'll find out when I go, but you gave me a lot of info to consider and look out for. The other place didn't seem to really have any input when I told them that I already have strong muscles. I mean, jeez, I usually lift a 15-18 lbs bar or 90-100 lbs on the machines for my inner and outer thighs! And they just had me doing basic lifts w/ no weight! I really hope this new place can do more for me before my upper body ends up stronger than my lower body! My doc should also be back from vacation tomorrow so I can finally ask him about the braces - I bought the one he recommended for my right leg, wore it home from the city, limping, and it did more harm than help - and he expected me to bikeride with two of them! Anyway, I'll see how this other place goes. Thanks again for the tips. - Re: Braces If your feeling your legs are getting weaker. Then you might want to have a serious talk with your pt person. Write up your old exercises you use to do, and then right up your current put exercises. Have your pt review them. They should be able to guide you in safe exercises to work the muscles you mention are getting weaker. My last session of pt for my knees, screwed me up even worse than I went in because i ended up hurting my back and pulling some things, because i was told to stop a lot of things I was doing, and hence some low back, and butt muscles were diminishing. WIth them telling me not to do x,y,z but not replacing the exercises with comperable ones that would still work those areas. This guy told me to avoid all steps, avoid doing way to many things. Which in turn made my legs even weaker, and I was in more pain. In hind sight i should have bounced that guy and requested another pt. I was telling him, i was starting to get lower back pain, and each time it was getting worse. I told him I'd stopped some of my leg workout which also worked the low back and butt. Told him what i had been doing. To which i got a blank stare. If your getting a blank stare, i'd ask to see another pt. I really hate to say this, but some pt places are use to working with people who are only couch and computer sitting all day and do no exercise. If your not that type of regular person, then you need someone who is more flexible and creative with helping you out. Some of its the insurance, they are only suppose to work the " knee area " . So that might be why they don't address total body fitness. So, they think the basic exercises are going to get you strong and better because they think your in a chair all day and don't do anything else. You might have a weak muscle in there, so find out exactly which muscles they are trying to get strong with which exercise. Find out if you are allowed to do any substitute exercises to keep using your muscles which you think are shrinking. You need to pay attention to the butt and upper leg muscle mass which you may be loosing. My itband pain got worse during my last session of pt, because i lost 3/4 of my upper leg muscle in pt. Then after pulling something in my back, i could literal do almost nothing for several weeks, and i still have pain from it. If you have a bad feeling, don't ignore it. Your paying, your insurance is paying, get your monies worth. Look around the pt place, you may spot someone who looks more athletically inclined, more into watching the peoples form. Someone who doesn't have you do the exact same exercises every single time. Sometimes the people most willing to help you are the PT's that are into some type of sports themselves. Some pts are also personal trainers, might want to look for one of those. I've also found the number of reps they have you do, aren't enough. If your doing so many reps and its easy, then talk to your pt, for ways to make the exercise more challenging. Weights, a different, heavier theraband, etc. One place tended to give me exercises with therabands. One place had me do ankle weights for some exercises. I found they did better for me. When i cranked up the reps, i noticed more of difference and it helped. Its all about personal preference. (For when your working inner and outer thigh things) You do the motions differently with the different aperatus, but gets the stuff done. Also are you letting them know that some of the exercises are making things hurt worse!! If its hurting, and its not a muscle sore pain, thats not good. If your muscles are getting tired, and that is the muscle soreness, thats ok. But bad knee pain shouldn't be experienced during pt. Are they taping your knee, or showing you how to do the mc connel taping? Sometimes it helps, for others it doesn't help at all. If you get a lame excuse be warned some pt's make up crappy excuses when in reality they don't know how to do the taping, and won't just flat out admit they don't know how to tape. My first pt didn't know how to, gave me a run around, when I requested a pt change, that lady showed me. The first pt was telling me i needed an rx from the doc, and this and that, the second pt, said you don't need that stuff. It seems PT's are just like any other job. You get some really shining stars, great caring people, and you get others who are just punching in and punching out. Connie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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