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Shirley,

I have sent this to the Dwarfism Listserve, someone there may have some

input to your specific situation.

In Love And Service,

 

 

D. Kline, aka DwarfStar

http://www.dwarfism.org

Braces

I'm trying to get some input on orthodontic procedures. My daughter is

an achondroplastic dwarf and is in the process of getting braces. Her

orthodontist wants to stretch the jaw muscles instead of pulling teeth to

make room. He says they've discovered that pulling teeth to make room

for overcrowding can cause problems later on in life.

My question is does this make sense to do this to someone whose mouth may

not be much larger than it is now?

I'd appreciate any information or opinions.

Shirley McCann

(I can also be reached at IMAGHOST@...)

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  • 1 year later...

Quoting djtrigger2002@...:

> Dr Siff and group

>

> What are the group's feelings about braces for extra support and

> stability. Do they hinder the athlete in terms of jumping ability

> and change of direction? Or does the support outweigh the limited

> joint action? Would love to hear the groups comments. I was

> thinking along the lines of ankle braces and knee braces. Also, I

> am not talking about an athlete who has had previous ACL or MCL

> tears. Just wants support

**** My opinion is with respect to ankle braces, as I have had most experience

with those via basketball. I definitely do not agree with athletes wearing

braces or taping if they are not currently injured or recovering from injury.

Those athletes that are " healthy " or uninjured should rely on the body's on

defense systems. Proprioception is the main defense systems around body

joints. When we start to push a joint past its ROM receptors around the joint

let the appropriate muscles know and they contract, hopefully protecting the

joint in time. When they can't protect it in time or aren't strong enough then

ligaments are a final protection but are quite often torn or at least strained

if the force is large enough. The forces that are required to SERIOUSLY deform

most ligaments are very large and most bracing techniques will not be useful in

protecting the body from this anyway. Therefore it seems to me that, as Mel

states, it would be wiser to train the body to protect itself.

Another issue with bracing is its effect on other parts of the body. I

recently read a study which examined different ankle stabilizers and their

effects on joint kinematics during drop landings. Basically what was found

that all except two of the conditions tested (one brace and no brace at all)

seriously affected ankle joint ROM in the sagittal (?) plane, e.g. plantar and

dorsiflexion as well as the desired eversion/inversion.

What does this mean? Well, according to the authors, more energy transferred to

the knees and hips rather than being absorbed by the plantarflexors. (Hello

knee surgery!). This has large implications for chronic ankle brace wearers

but also has implications for the move from high and mid cut basketball shoes

back to low cut shoes in an attempt to provide lateral support without

compromising our energy absorbing capabilities.

Ben Haines

Townsville, Australia.

-------------

Mel Siff:

> [in this case the braces may offer more prioprioceptive assistance than

> actual support, so he/she might simply consider using something like

powerlifting

> wraps. Many lifters have found that one appears to be able to exert more

force and

> react in a more stable fashion even with fairly loose wraps below or about the

knees.

> At some stage, some used to think that so-called McConnell taping in physio

actually offered

> mechanical restraint to the movement of the patella in the patellofemoral

notch of

> the knee, but it now appears that any improvement in knee function is due to

> enhanced proprioception. The chronic wearing of non-essential braces may lead

to

> the establishment of inefficient motor patterns when they are not worn, so it

would

> be a wiser idea to train the knees and motor skills as effectively as possible

to cope

> with all the likely stresses and strains of competition. ]

>

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wrote:

My opinion about bracing (or taping) is mixed but my opinion about

footwear is not. Since this discussion about bracing as apparently

gone in the direction of proprioception and wether it is helped or

hindered by by bracing, here are two excerpts from

www.barefooters.org which might shed some light on this subject. I'd

be hardpressed to tell anyone to play basketball barefooted of

course, but the following might show what might be truly hindering

proprioception and stability...

Robbins, Waked, and Ron Rappel. " Ankle taping improves

proprioception before and after exercise in young men, " British

Journal of Sports Medicine, 29(4), 1995, pp. 242-247.

Ankle sprains are common sports injuries. Inadequate awareness is

thought to be the fundamental cause of these injuries. Ankle taping

may decrease the risk of injury through improving foot postition

awareness.

....

While taping improves foot position sense when humans wear athletic

footwear, it remains poor compared to the barefoot condition if we

use barefoot pre-exercise data available from a previous report for

comparison. Absolute foot position error was 4.11°, 3.13°, anmd 1.96°

for athletic footwear, athletic footwear taped, and barefoot,

respectively. Therefore when compared to the barefoot condition, foot

position awareness was 107.5% worse in uptaped subjects with athletic

footwear, and 58.1% worse in ankle taped subjects wearing athletic

footwear.

....

The inescapable conclusion is that footwear use is ultimately

responsible for ankle injury. The conclusion is consistent with

observations made among populations where barefoot activity is the

norm. Ankle sprains are uncommon in these groups.

....

From another perspective it suggests that most ankle injuries are not

inherent to sport, but rather are caused by footwear.

Stacoff, Jürg Steger, Edgar Stüssi, and Christoph

Reinschmidt. " Lateral stability in sideward cutting movements, "

Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 28(3), 1996, pp. 350-

358.

With respect to leverage, the barefoot situation has an advantage

over the shod situation. The shoe sole increases the lever arm and as

a consequence the moment about the subtalar joint.

....

All other shoes had one result in common: torsion increased from

touchdown to maximum, which, given similar forefoot angles, is

equivalent to an inversion moment of the rearfoot relative to the

forefoot. Such a movement is not welcomed to improve the lateral

stability.

....

When looking at the forefoot, there are two different landing

techniques that can be observed. Barefooted " the flat-foot approach "

is chosen by lowering the metatarsals parallel to the ground. With

shoes the medial border of the forefoot touches the ground first

causing a forefoot angle of around 20°. Within a time span of 40 ms

the forefoot is then lowered toward the ground thereby rolling over

the medial border of the shoe sole. In other words, a " rolling

approach " can be observed with shoes.

....

Inversion is mostly reduced in the barefoot condition.

....

The best lateral stability can be observed in the barefoot condition.

As an additionnal note, remember that taping usually loses its

properties after a mere 10 minutes of play. From there on then, it

probably works only in helping proprioception. I don't know if this

is good or bad, but I am very much convinced that it won't make it so

that more energy is transfered to the knees on landing. Same thing

with braces although it depends on the type (Active Ankle, ASO,

figure-8 straps...) which is why it would be important to know what

kind exactly they used in the research you quote. I have NEVER

injured my ankles in 15 years of playing basketball when wearing tape

or braces and the opposite is quite true. Sometimes it takes

relatively nothing (hitting your defender with you foot on a fade

away jump shot and as such, hitting the ground awkwardly when

landing...) and braces can help improving foot positioning in the air

prior to landing. I am not saying that this is proof that braces are

THE way to go, but from my personal point of view, they are MY way to

go. Unless everyone was to go barefoot on the court...

Lépine

Vancouver BC

> Quoting djtrigger2002@y...:

>

> > Dr Siff and group

> >

> > What are the group's feelings about braces for extra support and

> > stability. Do they hinder the athlete in terms of jumping

ability

> > and change of direction? Or does the support outweigh the

limited

> > joint action? Would love to hear the groups comments. I was

> > thinking along the lines of ankle braces and knee braces. Also,

I

> > am not talking about an athlete who has had previous ACL or MCL

> > tears. Just wants support

>

> **** My opinion is with respect to ankle braces, as I have had most

experience

> with those via basketball. I definitely do not agree with athletes

wearing

> braces or taping if they are not currently injured or recovering

from injury.

>

> Those athletes that are " healthy " or uninjured should rely on the

body's on

> defense systems. Proprioception is the main defense systems around

body

> joints. When we start to push a joint past its ROM receptors

around the joint

> let the appropriate muscles know and they contract, hopefully

protecting the

> joint in time. When they can't protect it in time or aren't strong

enough then

> ligaments are a final protection but are quite often torn or at

least strained

> if the force is large enough. The forces that are required to

SERIOUSLY deform

> most ligaments are very large and most bracing techniques will not

be useful in

> protecting the body from this anyway. Therefore it seems to me

that, as Mel

> states, it would be wiser to train the body to protect itself.

>

> Another issue with bracing is its effect on other parts of the

body. I

> recently read a study which examined different ankle stabilizers

and their

> effects on joint kinematics during drop landings. Basically what

was found

> that all except two of the conditions tested (one brace and no

brace at all)

> seriously affected ankle joint ROM in the sagittal (?) plane, e.g.

plantar and

> dorsiflexion as well as the desired eversion/inversion.

>

> What does this mean? Well, according to the authors, more energy

transferred to

> the knees and hips rather than being absorbed by the

plantarflexors. (Hello

> knee surgery!). This has large implications for chronic ankle

brace wearers

> but also has implications for the move from high and mid cut

basketball shoes

> back to low cut shoes in an attempt to provide lateral support

without

> compromising our energy absorbing capabilities.

>

>

> Ben Haines

> Townsville, Australia.

>

> -------------

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Quoting Éric Lépine <eric707@...>:

> wrote:

>

> My opinion about bracing (or taping) is mixed but my opinion about

> footwear is not. Since this discussion about bracing as apparently

> gone in the direction of proprioception and wether it is helped or

> hindered by by bracing, here are two excerpts from

> www.barefooters.org which might shed some light on this subject. I'd

> be hardpressed to tell anyone to play basketball barefooted of

> course, but the following might show what might be truly hindering

> proprioception and stability...

>

> Robbins, Waked, and Ron Rappel. " Ankle taping improves

> proprioception before and after exercise in young men, " British

> Journal of Sports Medicine, 29(4), 1995, pp. 242-247.

>

> Ankle sprains are common sports injuries. Inadequate awareness is

> thought to be the fundamental cause of these injuries. Ankle taping

> may decrease the risk of injury through improving foot postition

> awareness.

> ...

> While taping improves foot position sense when humans wear athletic

> footwear, it remains poor compared to the barefoot condition if we

> use barefoot pre-exercise data available from a previous report for

> comparison. Absolute foot position error was 4.11°, 3.13°, anmd 1.96°

> for athletic footwear, athletic footwear taped, and barefoot,

> respectively. Therefore when compared to the barefoot condition, foot

> position awareness was 107.5% worse in uptaped subjects with athletic

> footwear, and 58.1% worse in ankle taped subjects wearing athletic

> footwear.

> ...

> The inescapable conclusion is that footwear use is ultimately

> responsible for ankle injury. The conclusion is consistent with

> observations made among populations where barefoot activity is the

> norm. Ankle sprains are uncommon in these groups.

> ...

> From another perspective it suggests that most ankle injuries are not

> inherent to sport, but rather are caused by footwear.

>

> Stacoff, Jürg Steger, Edgar Stüssi, and Christoph

> Reinschmidt. " Lateral stability in sideward cutting movements, "

> Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 28(3), 1996, pp. 350-

> 358.

>

> With respect to leverage, the barefoot situation has an advantage

> over the shod situation. The shoe sole increases the lever arm and as

> a consequence the moment about the subtalar joint.

> ...

> All other shoes had one result in common: torsion increased from

> touchdown to maximum, which, given similar forefoot angles, is

> equivalent to an inversion moment of the rearfoot relative to the

> forefoot. Such a movement is not welcomed to improve the lateral

> stability.

> ...

> When looking at the forefoot, there are two different landing

> techniques that can be observed. Barefooted " the flat-foot approach "

> is chosen by lowering the metatarsals parallel to the ground. With

> shoes the medial border of the forefoot touches the ground first

> causing a forefoot angle of around 20°. Within a time span of 40 ms

> the forefoot is then lowered toward the ground thereby rolling over

> the medial border of the shoe sole. In other words, a " rolling

> approach " can be observed with shoes.

> ...

> Inversion is mostly reduced in the barefoot condition.

**** I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me if so but

if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as the major

problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an eversion

sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take place.****

> The best lateral stability can be observed in the barefoot condition.

>

> As an additionnal note, remember that taping usually loses its

> properties after a mere 10 minutes of play. From there on then, it

> probably works only in helping proprioception. I don't know if this

> is good or bad, but I am very much convinced that it won't make it so

> that more energy is transfered to the knees on landing. Same thing

> with braces although it depends on the type (Active Ankle, ASO,

> figure-8 straps...) which is why it would be important to know what

> kind exactly they used in the research you quote.

**** Sorry I actually meant to post the reference in my previous post but

forgot so here it is.

McCaw, S. Cerullo, JF. (1999). " Prophylactic ankle stabilizers affect ankle

joint kinematics during drop landings " . Med Sci Sports Exerc, Vol 31, No 5, pp

702 - 707.

The conditions tested were 1. no bracing, 2. taped using a modified Gibney

closed basketweave with two heel locks, 3. lace-up boot style stabilizer

(Swede-O-Universal), 4. two semi rigid plastic outer shells hinged to a

plastic stirrup at the malleoli (Aircast Sport Stirrup), 5. same as #4 but

different brand (Cramer Active Ankle). Unfortunatlely the research is a little

dated so as the authors noted most of these models have been superseeded by

newer models. Of all these Active ankle performed the best compared with the

no brace situation.

A main point of this study I guess is that the authors draw comparison between

numbers that they obtain and a previous study on a similar topic.

Devita, P. Skelly, WA. (1992). " Effect of landing stiffness on joint kinetics

and energies in the lower extremity " . Med Sci Sports Exerc, Vol 24, pp 108 -

115.

This study examined the kinetics and kinematics of soft and stiff landings

after a drop. Soft was characterised by as much knee and hip flexion as needed

by subject and stiff by as little as possible knee and hip flexion as possible

(you have to feel sorry for the poor subject who volunteered for that).

Basically, (I think) after reading both articles. The authors suggest that

some stabilisers can have the same effect as landing stiffly (eg limited knee

and hip flexion). Obviously they state this as undesirable. It is definitely

a difficult subject however with more research needed. Especially as you say

that tape (and stabilisers can often loosen during activity and the first study

performed their trials straight after application and not after exercise.*****

I have NEVER

> injured my ankles in 15 years of playing basketball when wearing tape

> or braces and the opposite is quite true. Sometimes it takes

> relatively nothing (hitting your defender with you foot on a fade

> away jump shot and as such, hitting the ground awkwardly when

> landing...) and braces can help improving foot positioning in the air

> prior to landing.

**** Again I will speak from personal experience as I have no references to

back this up. The occasions you speak of are all times when the contact occurs

in the air. This foot positioning in the air is something that I would take

for granted and wouldn't rely on taping or stabilisers to provide me with. In

my basketball playing career I have injured my ankles badly about 4 times.

Each time was when landing on an opponents foot (usually against chumps who run

into you whilst your shooting). This type of landing has always resulted in

serious eversion sprains for me personally. I have never landed on an

opponents foot whilst wearing tape or a stabiliser but I fail to beleive that

it would provide me with the support needed to survive such an incident

although I could be wrong. However for a stabiliser to be that tight to be

effective it would probably affect normal ROM anyway I'm assuming.****

> I am not saying that this is proof that braces are

> THE way to go, but from my personal point of view, they are MY way to

> go. Unless everyone was to go barefoot on the court...

**** Everyone barefoot on the court hey? You might not be saying that if you

saw some of the festy toenails sported by some of my team mates. Besides, what

are you trying to do, eliminate a huge advertising and money making opportunity

for shoe companys? They have a hard enough time scraping by as it is.*****

Ben Haines

Townsville, Australia

> Lépine

> Vancouver BC

>

>

> > Quoting djtrigger2002@y...:

> >

> > > Dr Siff and group

> > >

> > > What are the group's feelings about braces for extra support and

> > > stability. Do they hinder the athlete in terms of jumping

> ability

> > > and change of direction? Or does the support outweigh the

> limited

> > > joint action? Would love to hear the groups comments. I was

> > > thinking along the lines of ankle braces and knee braces. Also,

> I

> > > am not talking about an athlete who has had previous ACL or MCL

> > > tears. Just wants support

> >

> > **** My opinion is with respect to ankle braces, as I have had most

> experience

> > with those via basketball. I definitely do not agree with athletes

> wearing

> > braces or taping if they are not currently injured or recovering

> from injury.

> >

> > Those athletes that are " healthy " or uninjured should rely on the

> body's on

> > defense systems. Proprioception is the main defense systems around

> body

> > joints. When we start to push a joint past its ROM receptors

> around the joint

> > let the appropriate muscles know and they contract, hopefully

> protecting the

> > joint in time. When they can't protect it in time or aren't strong

> enough then

> > ligaments are a final protection but are quite often torn or at

> least strained

> > if the force is large enough. The forces that are required to

> SERIOUSLY deform

> > most ligaments are very large and most bracing techniques will not

> be useful in

> > protecting the body from this anyway. Therefore it seems to me

> that, as Mel

> > states, it would be wiser to train the body to protect itself.

> >

> > Another issue with bracing is its effect on other parts of the

> body. I

> > recently read a study which examined different ankle stabilizers

> and their

> > effects on joint kinematics during drop landings. Basically what

> was found

> > that all except two of the conditions tested (one brace and no

> brace at all)

> > seriously affected ankle joint ROM in the sagittal (?) plane, e.g.

> plantar and

> > dorsiflexion as well as the desired eversion/inversion.

> >

> > What does this mean? Well, according to the authors, more energy

> transferred to

> > the knees and hips rather than being absorbed by the

> plantarflexors. (Hello

> > knee surgery!). This has large implications for chronic ankle

> brace wearers

> > but also has implications for the move from high and mid cut

> basketball shoes

> > back to low cut shoes in an attempt to provide lateral support

> without

> > compromising our energy absorbing capabilities.

> >

> >

> > Ben Haines

> > Townsville, Australia.

> >

> > -------------

>

>

>

>

>

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Quoting .Haines@...

wrote:

“In my basketball playing career I have injured my

ankles badly about 4 times.

Each time was when landing on an opponents foot

(usually against chumps who run

into you whilst your shooting). This type of landing

has always resulted in

serious eversion sprains for me personally. I have

never landed on an

opponents foot whilst wearing tape or a stabiliser but

I fail to beleive that

it would provide me with the support needed to survive

such an incident

although I could be wrong. However for a stabiliser to

be that tight to be

effective it would probably affect normal ROM anyway

I'm assuming.”

I agree. I have injured my ankles a number of times

playing basketball in the same manner. Post injury

and therapy, I used to strap my ankles and brace them

and was still able to enervate them running in a

straight line. Only after having my muscle balances

corrected on an isokinetic machine was I able to play

again without twisting my ankle and I did not require

bracing or strapping.

Greg

London, United Kingdom

__________________________________________________

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  • 3 weeks later...

It was written:

<I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me if so but

if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as the major

problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an eversion

sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take place.>

Slipped out of my head that I needed to answer to this... Ah well,

better late than never I guess.

When " rolling " your foot and in nearly 90% of all ankle injuries, an

overinversion or lateral sprain occurs. During inversion, the foot

is adducted and directed so that its medial border is raised and its

lateral border is depressed. In other words, inversion directs the

sole of the foot toward the median plane of the body. Eversion is

the opposite.

I don't know about you Ben, but I'm pretty sure when

you sprained your ankle, it was an inversion sprain. (Not that I hope

you would, but at least it's a bit better...) The strong deltoid

(medial) ligament and the lower medial malleolus tend to prevent

overeversion of the foot and as such, is very rarely seen. It

requires such force to medially inverse your ankle that it will

usually be accompanied by a fracture or more frequently, complete

tearing of the deltoid ligament. Just a clarification...

[Maybe the problem here is misunderstanding of the various definitions

used to describe foot actions, a topic that I discussed here not so long ago

with respect

to " pronation " and " inversion " , etc. The word " inversion " , which contains the

prefix " in " may suggest to some people that this refers to a rolling in of the

foot,

whereas, in fact, it refers to the opposite situation where the foot rolls

outward

and more pronounced supination occurs. As I mentioned earlier, the wearing of

shoes with elevated heels increases the tendency for this problem to occur. Mel

Siff]

Lépine

Vanvouver BC

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> It was written:

>

> <I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me

if so but

> if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as

the major

> problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an

eversion

> sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take

place.>

>

> Slipped out of my head that I needed to answer to this... Ah well,

> better late than never I guess.

>

> When " rolling " your foot and in nearly 90% of all ankle injuries,

an

> overinversion or lateral sprain occurs. During inversion, the foot

> is adducted and directed so that its medial border is raised and

its

> lateral border is depressed. In other words, inversion directs the

> sole of the foot toward the median plane of the body. Eversion is

> the opposite.

>

> I don't know about you Ben, but I'm pretty sure when

> you sprained your ankle, it was an inversion sprain. (Not that I

hope

> you would, but at least it's a bit better...) The strong deltoid

> (medial) ligament and the lower medial malleolus tend to prevent

> overeversion of the foot and as such, is very rarely seen. It

> requires such force to medially inverse your ankle that it will

> usually be accompanied by a fracture or more frequently, complete

> tearing of the deltoid ligament. Just a clarification...

>

> [Maybe the problem here is misunderstanding of the various

definitions

> used to describe foot actions, a topic that I discussed here not so

long ago with respect

> to " pronation " and " inversion " , etc. The word " inversion " , which

contains the

> prefix " in " may suggest to some people that this refers to a

rolling in of the foot,

> whereas, in fact, it refers to the opposite situation where the

foot rolls outward

> and more pronounced supination occurs. Mel Siff]

>

It is indeed confusing... Here I am refering to several anatomy and

musculoskeletal assessment textbooks in defining the different foot

actions.

EVERSION of the foot moves the sole away from the median plane and so

occurs when the sole faces inferolaterally.

INVERSION of the foot moves the sole toward the median plane, meaning

the sole faces inferomedially. This is why I said that most ankle

injuries happen when overinversion occurs.

In general, pronation or supination of the foot are not recognized

officially but when they are used, pronation refers to eversion an

abduction, and supination refers to inversion and adduction.

Pronation and supination are usually reserved when describing the

movement of the forearm and hand that rotates the radius medially or

laterally around its long axis.

Lépine

Vancouver BC

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Quoting boubou707 <eric707@...>:

>

> > It was written:

> >

> > <I am probably reading this completely wrong so please correct me

> if so but

> > if the authors are talking about inversion I wouldn't see this as

> the major

> > problem as the major injury that occurs to the ankle joint is an

> eversion

> > sprain isn't it? Very, very rarely do inversion sprains take

> place.>

> >

> > Slipped out of my head that I needed to answer to this... Ah well,

> > better late than never I guess.

> >

> > When " rolling " your foot and in nearly 90% of all ankle injuries,

> an

> > overinversion or lateral sprain occurs. During inversion, the foot

> > is adducted and directed so that its medial border is raised and

> its

> > lateral border is depressed. In other words, inversion directs the

> > sole of the foot toward the median plane of the body. Eversion is

> > the opposite.

> >

> > I don't know about you Ben, but I'm pretty sure when

> > you sprained your ankle, it was an inversion sprain. (Not that I

> hope

> > you would, but at least it's a bit better...) The strong deltoid

> > (medial) ligament and the lower medial malleolus tend to prevent

> > overeversion of the foot and as such, is very rarely seen. It

> > requires such force to medially inverse your ankle that it will

> > usually be accompanied by a fracture or more frequently, complete

> > tearing of the deltoid ligament. Just a clarification...

***** Thanks for picking that up . Guess that's what happens if you write

these letters in a hurry and don't take the proper time to read everything

you've written. Indeed it was an inversion sprain and I can only thank my

lucky stars that I have never had (and never wish to) an eversion sprain. A

referee friend of mine did this once. I wouldn't call it a sprain mind you but

rather a compound fracture. Not a pretty sight.

Ben Haines

Townsville, Australia.

> > [Maybe the problem here is misunderstanding of the various

> definitions

> > used to describe foot actions, a topic that I discussed here not so

> long ago with respect

> > to " pronation " and " inversion " , etc. The word " inversion " , which

> contains the

> > prefix " in " may suggest to some people that this refers to a

> rolling in of the foot,

> > whereas, in fact, it refers to the opposite situation where the

> foot rolls outward

> > and more pronounced supination occurs. Mel Siff]

> >

>

> It is indeed confusing... Here I am refering to several anatomy and

> musculoskeletal assessment textbooks in defining the different foot

> actions.

>

> EVERSION of the foot moves the sole away from the median plane and so

> occurs when the sole faces inferolaterally.

>

> INVERSION of the foot moves the sole toward the median plane, meaning

> the sole faces inferomedially. This is why I said that most ankle

> injuries happen when overinversion occurs.

>

> In general, pronation or supination of the foot are not recognized

> officially but when they are used, pronation refers to eversion an

> abduction, and supination refers to inversion and adduction.

> Pronation and supination are usually reserved when describing the

> movement of the forearm and hand that rotates the radius medially or

> laterally around its long axis.

>

> Lépine

> Vancouver BC

>

>

>

>

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

Hi AJ,

I have a Don Joy custom unloader brace, which is titanium, to shift the

weight in my knee to help with the pain. I don't use it a lot yet because I

just had knee surgery, but I was surprised with how much it did help. The

brace itself is very light weight. I do have some problems with it slipping

down my leg....because I have legs rather like a piano leg...I have grade 4

chondromalacia in my knee, so anything that will help I will try. Hope that

helps a little.

Pat

At 07:51 PM 4/13/03 +0000, ilovsofbal wrote:

>Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or

>something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

>

>AJ

>

>

>

>Sponsor<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=\

1705132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556 & l\

ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

I'm not familiar with your brace, but I do understand the slipping part....I

have a Breg brace...to stop the slipping, I have a sleeve that is made for

use under the brace for comfort, no scratching, itching, sweating or

slipping....

Mona

Re: braces

Hi AJ,

I have a Don Joy custom unloader brace, which is titanium, to shift the

weight in my knee to help with the pain. I don't use it a lot yet because I

just had knee surgery, but I was surprised with how much it did help. The

brace itself is very light weight. I do have some problems with it slipping

down my leg....because I have legs rather like a piano leg...I have grade 4

chondromalacia in my knee, so anything that will help I will try. Hope that

helps a little.

Pat

At 07:51 PM 4/13/03 +0000, ilovsofbal wrote:

>Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or

>something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

>

>AJ

>

>

>

>Sponsor<

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=17051

32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705

132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556 & l

ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM> & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Mona,

Which Breg Brace do you have???

AJ

> >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or

> >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

> >

> >AJ

> >

> >

> >

> >Sponsor<

>

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/

S=17051

> 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?

camp=556

>

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

/S=1705

> 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?

camp=556 & l

> ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

& lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

The model I have is the PTO - it is a patella femoral - you can go online to

breg brace and check out patella femoral bracing and it has several braces

to choose from.....unfortunately, both of my knees have a lateral and

bi-lateral subluxation problem.....I was wearing both braces for about 9

months and kind of got tired of it......so in frustration put them

away......I am currently wearing the one for my left knee again and will

probably break out the other one soon. My thought was, by wearing the

braces on a day in day out basis, perhaps I was weakening my knees

(ligaments, tendons muscles) so I thought lets not wear them for a while and

see what happens.....what I have discovered thru this latest trial period is

I have to be more careful how I bend my knees, or get up from a bent

position because I feel it right away, and the knee burns for hours, in

addition to the stabbing pains....hence the need for the brace again......

Hope this helps you out.

Mona

Re: braces

Mona,

Which Breg Brace do you have???

AJ

> >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or

> >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

> >

> >AJ

> >

> >

> >

> >Sponsor<

>

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/>

S=17051

> 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?

<http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?>

camp=556

>

< http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb>

/S=1705

> 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?

<http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?>

camp=556 & l

> ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

& lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

What do you mean by " both of my knees have ... a bilateral subluxation problem " ?

Ann

RE: braces

The model I have is the PTO - it is a patella femoral - you can go online to

breg brace and check out patella femoral bracing and it has several braces

to choose from.....unfortunately, both of my knees have a lateral and

bi-lateral subluxation problem.....I was wearing both braces for about 9

months and kind of got tired of it......so in frustration put them

away......I am currently wearing the one for my left knee again and will

probably break out the other one soon. My thought was, by wearing the

braces on a day in day out basis, perhaps I was weakening my knees

(ligaments, tendons muscles) so I thought lets not wear them for a while and

see what happens.....what I have discovered thru this latest trial period is

I have to be more careful how I bend my knees, or get up from a bent

position because I feel it right away, and the knee burns for hours, in

addition to the stabbing pains....hence the need for the brace again......

Hope this helps you out.

Mona

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Guest guest

Mona,

I was looking to try and get away from Neoprene....take a look at

the new x2k-Pto....its new this year...Thanks...let me know what you

think...

AJ

> > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia..

or

> > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

> > >

> > >AJ

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Sponsor<

> >

>

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/

>

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

/>

> S=17051

> > 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-

bin/autoredir?

> <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?>

> camp=556

> >

> <

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

>

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

>

> /S=1705

> > 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-

bin/autoredir?

> <http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?>

> camp=556 & l

> > ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

My file was sent to a surgeon in California, who had pieces of the puzzle as

to what was going on with both knees, what he didn't have however was a CT

Scan, this was completed by having my legs straight with no bend, then

continually at varying degrees such as 15, 30, 45 etc etc.....until I had

them completely bent.

The final diagnoses was that I have lateral subluxation and bi-lateral

subluxation of both knees, and as it was explained to me, or I should say as

I understood it......lets say with a 15 degree bend, I was getting a lateral

subluxation, as my knees were bent more, it was bi-laterally subluxating

which means it had the same amount of pressure on both sides of the knee to

cause the dislocation......this is why it was determined that a lateral

release would not give me any real relief. Dr. Gambardella still wants to

scope my left knee (which is the worst one right now), the reason for this

is two-fold, #1 to see if I am a possible candidate for the Carticel

articular cartilage surgery, and to see how much or if I have osteoarthritis

in my knee and to finally see if his suspicions are correct in having to do

a TTT. The Carticel surgery cannot be completed if there is to much

osteoarthritis present.

Now with all that said, at present I have elected not to have any additional

scoping or surgery of either of my knees, because like anything else, you

can get a million different diagnoses......or fixes....I'll just wait...

I went to a pain clinic two weeks ago, not only for my knees, but I have

shoulder,hips, back and mid-feet problems as well (although my feet don't

hurt...and since my back is presently rodded, that doesn't hurt).....This

was all found when I had a whole body bone scan because of a lot of pain in

different parts of my body......the doc at the pain clinic immediately said

my entire problem in arthritis and he had no idea why I was sent to

him......he prescribed a strong dose of arthrotec, because I rec'd no kind

of relief from anything else I was prescribed or given.....I do have an appt

with a Rheumatologist next week and a hip specialist in three weeks....and

the saga continues....

Mona

Re: braces

What do you mean by " both of my knees have ... a bilateral subluxation

problem " ?

Ann

RE: braces

The model I have is the PTO - it is a patella femoral - you can go online

to

breg brace and check out patella femoral bracing and it has several

braces

to choose from.....unfortunately, both of my knees have a lateral and

bi-lateral subluxation problem.....I was wearing both braces for about 9

months and kind of got tired of it......so in frustration put them

away......I am currently wearing the one for my left knee again and will

probably break out the other one soon. My thought was, by wearing the

braces on a day in day out basis, perhaps I was weakening my knees

(ligaments, tendons muscles) so I thought lets not wear them for a while

and

see what happens.....what I have discovered thru this latest trial period

is

I have to be more careful how I bend my knees, or get up from a bent

position because I feel it right away, and the knee burns for hours, in

addition to the stabbing pains....hence the need for the brace again......

Hope this helps you out.

Mona

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

It looks pretty hi-tech, actually the PTO that I have is not neoprene it is

the air mesh, I tried a neoprene one prior to receiving these and it was

uncomfortable and it made behind my knee sweat, for comfort I wear a sleeve

under my braces and as comfort goes they are pretty comfortable.

Mona

Re: braces

Mona,

I was looking to try and get away from Neoprene....take a look at

the new x2k-Pto....its new this year...Thanks...let me know what you

think...

AJ

> > >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia..

or

> > >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

> > >

> > >AJ

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Sponsor<

> >

>

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/>

>

< http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb>

/>

> S=17051

> > 32763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-

<http://hits.411web.com/cgi->

bin/autoredir?

> < http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?

<http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> >

> camp=556

> >

> <

http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb>

>

< http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb

<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb>

>

> /S=1705

> > 132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-

<http://hits.411web.com/cgi->

bin/autoredir?

> < http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?

<http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?> >

> camp=556 & l

> > ineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> > >

> > >

> > >

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

I am very new to this. I dont know that there were grades to CP. My

MRI said " moderately severe " chondromalacia. What are the different

grades and how do i know which one i fall in.

> >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or

> >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

> >

> >AJ

> >

> >

> >

>

>Sponsor<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=eg

roupweb/S=1705132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-

bin/autoredir?camp=556 & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

This site defines them pretty clearly:

http://www.physicaltherapywebsites.com/library/ch14/chondromalacia.asp

Ann

Re: braces

I am very new to this. I dont know that there were grades to CP. My

MRI said " moderately severe " chondromalacia. What are the different

grades and how do i know which one i fall in.

> >Does anyone have a Custom brace.. that is for chondromalacia.. or

> >something that is NOT neoprene...Please write back...

> >

> >AJ

> >

> >

> >

>

>Sponsor<http://us.ard./M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=eg

roupweb/S=1705132763:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-

bin/autoredir?camp=556 & lineid=3083889 & prop=egroupweb & pos=HM>

> >

> >

> >

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  • 7 months later...

,

Braces are really meant to stop the progression of a curve or to hold the curve. Serial Corrective plaster Casts are meant to lessen the curve. They are a series of casts that teach the spine to grow straight. It's late someone help me with this since is out of town. Tawney? Celia? ? Bridgette? I always want to respond to you but I think I am having a tired "blonde moment." LOL

Crista

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  • 6 months later...
Guest guest

,

is in his 2nd cast, 3rd cast will be applied next week! No, he has not had chest wall deformity. I guess if I had to choose I would pick that over a back deformity and breathing problems. If you ask me that is just an excuse from the Dr.

If you send me your # I will call you today.

Crista

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Guest guest

,

We can talk on the phone whenever you want. I will be gone this a.m., but will around as soon as I am sure that my grandma has made it through this endo scope procedure.

E-mail me privately, and we can exchange #'s.

talk soon,

HRH

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  • 10 months later...
Guest guest

Hi .

The question I can provide feedback on is about the physical

therapy...I went to 12 sessions of PT over 6 weeks and I found that

it did help improve my condition. I too have strong thigh and calf

muscles, but I think it is more about stretching those muscles with

the PT in addition to the gradual strength training. The key is that

once your prescribed PT is completed, you need to keep up on the

stretches and exercises that are given to you, this should relieve

some of the grinding in the knee. It sounds like we have a similar

reaction to this condition...no real pain yet, but the cracking and

grinding is there and it's uncomfortable. I hope by finding out

about having this condition now, will aleivate more pain in the

future. I hope this helps and I KNOW there are other members in

this " community " that can provide more insight to this condition.

-

> Hi,

> I just joined the group. I've been having knee problems for about

7

> mos now, and had been going to a physiatrist, but he wasn't really

> helping me - he just kept putting me on drugs. I finally left and

> went to an orthopedist who was recommended to mr. I went to him on

> Monday, and he diagnosed me right away with chondromalacia (after

> doing online research, it fits my symptoms exactly). He prescribed

a

> certain brace for me and told me to rest for 2 weeks and take

> physical therapy. Although I'm glad to finally have a real

diagnosis

> and a treatment plan, he didn't really let me get many questions

in

> during my appointment, and now he's on vacation for a week. One

> thing I really need to know about right now is whether there's a

big

> difference between the $30 braces and the $75 ones. He prescribed

a

> palumbo brace, which besides being expensive, I have to be

measured

> and then they have to order it....by the time I get it, my two

weeks

> of rest will be gone. So I was wondering, would a brace from a

drug

> store (such as the Mueller hinged brace) be just as effective?

>

> Also, since I can't ask my doc right now, I'm hoping someone here

> could give me some insight. Although I've had this problem for a

> long time, and haven't taken very good care of it till now, my

knees

> haven't been hurting in a long time, other than occasionally. My

> main issue is the grinding when I go down steps, sit, squat, etc.

> There's rarely any real pain. I'm hoping this means that I don't

> have it very severe, and even though I've had it for quite some

time

> now, that I could get back to all my favorite activities.

>

> Also...do basic physical therapy exercises (ie. leg raises) really

> do much for someone who already works out and has pretty strong

> thigh muscles, or is it just going backwards to do these exercises

> with no weight?

>

> Thanks for any help and sorry for the long email...just looking

for

> some answers besides generic websites.

>

> -

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Guest guest

Hi,

Thanks for replying.

I'm still not sure whether the PT exercises are doing anything for me that

wasn't being done before. In addition to all my other exercise, I've been taking

pilates for about a year now, so my hamstrings get a lot of stretching. The

exercises they're giving me are better than doing absolutely nothing, but I feel

that my leg muscles are getting weaker during my prescribed 2-week rest period.

Also, some of the exercises are ones that I would normally try to avoid, b/c

they cause the grinding. I feel like over the 7 mos I've had it, i've gotten to

know my body and which exercises aggravate and it which ones don't. But now it's

all changed since the physical therapy - I feel I can't figure out what's good

for it and what's bad!

Not only that, my knees have been bothering me more during this time than they

ever have before. Is this normal? Is it one of things that has to get worse

before getting better? B/c I've rarely had any pain from walking, yet this past

week walking is bothering my knees. They're also grinding more than they ever

have when I go downstairs and squat. Should I be concerned about this or just

follow through with the rest of the 2-weeks despite my discomforts?

Thanks for any help.

-

Re: Braces

Hi .

The question I can provide feedback on is about the physical

therapy...I went to 12 sessions of PT over 6 weeks and I found that

it did help improve my condition. I too have strong thigh and calf

muscles, but I think it is more about stretching those muscles with

the PT in addition to the gradual strength training. The key is that

once your prescribed PT is completed, you need to keep up on the

stretches and exercises that are given to you, this should relieve

some of the grinding in the knee. It sounds like we have a similar

reaction to this condition...no real pain yet, but the cracking and

grinding is there and it's uncomfortable. I hope by finding out

about having this condition now, will aleivate more pain in the

future. I hope this helps and I KNOW there are other members in

this " community " that can provide more insight to this condition.

-

> Hi,

> I just joined the group. I've been having knee problems for about

7

> mos now, and had been going to a physiatrist, but he wasn't really

> helping me - he just kept putting me on drugs. I finally left and

> went to an orthopedist who was recommended to mr. I went to him on

> Monday, and he diagnosed me right away with chondromalacia (after

> doing online research, it fits my symptoms exactly). He prescribed

a

> certain brace for me and told me to rest for 2 weeks and take

> physical therapy. Although I'm glad to finally have a real

diagnosis

> and a treatment plan, he didn't really let me get many questions

in

> during my appointment, and now he's on vacation for a week. One

> thing I really need to know about right now is whether there's a

big

> difference between the $30 braces and the $75 ones. He prescribed

a

> palumbo brace, which besides being expensive, I have to be

measured

> and then they have to order it....by the time I get it, my two

weeks

> of rest will be gone. So I was wondering, would a brace from a

drug

> store (such as the Mueller hinged brace) be just as effective?

>

> Also, since I can't ask my doc right now, I'm hoping someone here

> could give me some insight. Although I've had this problem for a

> long time, and haven't taken very good care of it till now, my

knees

> haven't been hurting in a long time, other than occasionally. My

> main issue is the grinding when I go down steps, sit, squat, etc.

> There's rarely any real pain. I'm hoping this means that I don't

> have it very severe, and even though I've had it for quite some

time

> now, that I could get back to all my favorite activities.

>

> Also...do basic physical therapy exercises (ie. leg raises) really

> do much for someone who already works out and has pretty strong

> thigh muscles, or is it just going backwards to do these exercises

> with no weight?

>

> Thanks for any help and sorry for the long email...just looking

for

> some answers besides generic websites.

>

> -

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Guest guest

If your feeling your legs are getting weaker. Then you might want

to have a serious talk with your pt person.

Write up your old exercises you use to do, and then right up your

current put exercises. Have your pt review them. They should be

able to guide you in safe exercises to work the muscles you mention

are getting weaker.

My last session of pt for my knees, screwed me up even worse than I

went in because i ended up hurting my back and pulling some things,

because i was told to stop a lot of things I was doing, and hence

some low back, and butt muscles were diminishing. WIth them telling

me not to do x,y,z but not replacing the exercises with comperable

ones that would still work those areas. This guy told me to avoid

all steps, avoid doing way to many things. Which in turn made my

legs even weaker, and I was in more pain.

In hind sight i should have bounced that guy and requested another

pt. I was telling him, i was starting to get lower back pain, and

each time it was getting worse. I told him I'd stopped some of my

leg workout which also worked the low back and butt. Told him what

i had been doing.

To which i got a blank stare. If your getting a blank stare, i'd

ask to see another pt. I really hate to say this, but some pt

places are use to working with people who are only couch and

computer sitting all day and do no exercise. If your not that type

of regular person, then you need someone who is more flexible and

creative with helping you out. Some of its the insurance, they are

only suppose to work the " knee area " . So that might be why they

don't address total body fitness.

So, they think the basic exercises are going to get you strong and

better because they think your in a chair all day and don't do

anything else. You might have a weak muscle in there, so find out

exactly which muscles they are trying to get strong with which

exercise. Find out if you are allowed to do any substitute

exercises to keep using your muscles which you think are shrinking.

You need to pay attention to the butt and upper leg muscle mass

which you may be loosing. My itband pain got worse during my last

session of pt, because i lost 3/4 of my upper leg muscle in pt.

Then after pulling something in my back, i could literal do almost

nothing for several weeks, and i still have pain from it.

If you have a bad feeling, don't ignore it.

Your paying, your insurance is paying, get your monies worth.

Look around the pt place, you may spot someone who looks more

athletically inclined, more into watching the peoples form. Someone

who doesn't have you do the exact same exercises every single

time. Sometimes the people most willing to help you are the PT's

that are into some type of sports themselves. Some pts are also

personal trainers, might want to look for one of those.

I've also found the number of reps they have you do, aren't enough.

If your doing so many reps and its easy, then talk to your pt, for

ways to make the exercise more challenging. Weights, a different,

heavier theraband, etc.

One place tended to give me exercises with therabands. One place

had me do ankle weights for some exercises. I found they did better

for me. When i cranked up the reps, i noticed more of difference and

it helped. Its all about personal preference. (For when your

working inner and outer thigh things) You do the motions

differently with the different aperatus, but gets the stuff done.

Also are you letting them know that some of the exercises are making

things hurt worse!! If its hurting, and its not a muscle sore pain,

thats not good. If your muscles are getting tired, and that is the

muscle soreness, thats ok. But bad knee pain shouldn't be

experienced during pt.

Are they taping your knee, or showing you how to do the mc connel

taping? Sometimes it helps, for others it doesn't help at all.

If you get a lame excuse be warned some pt's make up crappy excuses

when in reality they don't know how to do the taping, and won't just

flat out admit they don't know how to tape. My first pt didn't know

how to, gave me a run around, when I requested a pt change, that

lady showed me. The first pt was telling me i needed an rx from the

doc, and this and that, the second pt, said you don't need that

stuff.

It seems PT's are just like any other job. You get some really

shining stars, great caring people, and you get others who are just

punching in and punching out.

Connie

> > Hi,

> > I just joined the group. I've been having knee problems for

about

> 7

> > mos now, and had been going to a physiatrist, but he wasn't

really

> > helping me - he just kept putting me on drugs. I finally left

and

> > went to an orthopedist who was recommended to mr. I went to

him on

> > Monday, and he diagnosed me right away with chondromalacia

(after

> > doing online research, it fits my symptoms exactly). He

prescribed

> a

> > certain brace for me and told me to rest for 2 weeks and take

> > physical therapy. Although I'm glad to finally have a real

> diagnosis

> > and a treatment plan, he didn't really let me get many

questions

> in

> > during my appointment, and now he's on vacation for a week.

One

> > thing I really need to know about right now is whether there's

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Thanks for the thorough reply :)

I am going to a different PT place tomorrow than I went to for the first three

sessions. I started going by my doc's office just b/c they were able to take me

right away. But there's a place 10 blocks away from my house (nice short walk

that shouldn't be a problem for my knees) and I'm pretty sure they're more

sports-oriented. I'll find out when I go, but you gave me a lot of info to

consider and look out for. The other place didn't seem to really have any input

when I told them that I already have strong muscles. I mean, jeez, I usually

lift a 15-18 lbs bar or 90-100 lbs on the machines for my inner and outer

thighs! And they just had me doing basic lifts w/ no weight! I really hope this

new place can do more for me before my upper body ends up stronger than my lower

body!

My doc should also be back from vacation tomorrow so I can finally ask him about

the braces - I bought the one he recommended for my right leg, wore it home from

the city, limping, and it did more harm than help - and he expected me to

bikeride with two of them!

Anyway, I'll see how this other place goes. Thanks again for the tips.

-

Re: Braces

If your feeling your legs are getting weaker. Then you might want

to have a serious talk with your pt person.

Write up your old exercises you use to do, and then right up your

current put exercises. Have your pt review them. They should be

able to guide you in safe exercises to work the muscles you mention

are getting weaker.

My last session of pt for my knees, screwed me up even worse than I

went in because i ended up hurting my back and pulling some things,

because i was told to stop a lot of things I was doing, and hence

some low back, and butt muscles were diminishing. WIth them telling

me not to do x,y,z but not replacing the exercises with comperable

ones that would still work those areas. This guy told me to avoid

all steps, avoid doing way to many things. Which in turn made my

legs even weaker, and I was in more pain.

In hind sight i should have bounced that guy and requested another

pt. I was telling him, i was starting to get lower back pain, and

each time it was getting worse. I told him I'd stopped some of my

leg workout which also worked the low back and butt. Told him what

i had been doing.

To which i got a blank stare. If your getting a blank stare, i'd

ask to see another pt. I really hate to say this, but some pt

places are use to working with people who are only couch and

computer sitting all day and do no exercise. If your not that type

of regular person, then you need someone who is more flexible and

creative with helping you out. Some of its the insurance, they are

only suppose to work the " knee area " . So that might be why they

don't address total body fitness.

So, they think the basic exercises are going to get you strong and

better because they think your in a chair all day and don't do

anything else. You might have a weak muscle in there, so find out

exactly which muscles they are trying to get strong with which

exercise. Find out if you are allowed to do any substitute

exercises to keep using your muscles which you think are shrinking.

You need to pay attention to the butt and upper leg muscle mass

which you may be loosing. My itband pain got worse during my last

session of pt, because i lost 3/4 of my upper leg muscle in pt.

Then after pulling something in my back, i could literal do almost

nothing for several weeks, and i still have pain from it.

If you have a bad feeling, don't ignore it.

Your paying, your insurance is paying, get your monies worth.

Look around the pt place, you may spot someone who looks more

athletically inclined, more into watching the peoples form. Someone

who doesn't have you do the exact same exercises every single

time. Sometimes the people most willing to help you are the PT's

that are into some type of sports themselves. Some pts are also

personal trainers, might want to look for one of those.

I've also found the number of reps they have you do, aren't enough.

If your doing so many reps and its easy, then talk to your pt, for

ways to make the exercise more challenging. Weights, a different,

heavier theraband, etc.

One place tended to give me exercises with therabands. One place

had me do ankle weights for some exercises. I found they did better

for me. When i cranked up the reps, i noticed more of difference and

it helped. Its all about personal preference. (For when your

working inner and outer thigh things) You do the motions

differently with the different aperatus, but gets the stuff done.

Also are you letting them know that some of the exercises are making

things hurt worse!! If its hurting, and its not a muscle sore pain,

thats not good. If your muscles are getting tired, and that is the

muscle soreness, thats ok. But bad knee pain shouldn't be

experienced during pt.

Are they taping your knee, or showing you how to do the mc connel

taping? Sometimes it helps, for others it doesn't help at all.

If you get a lame excuse be warned some pt's make up crappy excuses

when in reality they don't know how to do the taping, and won't just

flat out admit they don't know how to tape. My first pt didn't know

how to, gave me a run around, when I requested a pt change, that

lady showed me. The first pt was telling me i needed an rx from the

doc, and this and that, the second pt, said you don't need that

stuff.

It seems PT's are just like any other job. You get some really

shining stars, great caring people, and you get others who are just

punching in and punching out.

Connie

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