re: Child seeking intense reactions

[Guest guest]

No answer for you but my 6 year old girl has always done this.

If you find out let me know. Please!

Simone

On 2010-04-26, at 10:11 AM, Falconer Al-Hindi wrote:

> My older son (nearly 12 years old, ADHD, Anxiety Disorder) has

> responded really well to GF/CF diet, supplements, some AC chelation

> (we have more to do). Many of the behaviors that got him his diagnosis

> have disappeared. One that persists, though, is seeking out intense

> reactions from other people. Example: Uses rude language and then is

> pleased by the shocked look on my face, " I love to see that look, " he

> says, and doesn't mind being sent to his room for it. Example:

> Provokes other children so that they chase him in anger. Example:

> Plays " swords " with plastic light sabers until the other child gets

> hit on the hand (it hurts). At times (it is not constant) he seems to

> need intense or extreme reactions from other people, and most often

> these are negative. He doesn't get the same pleasure from strong

> positive reactions. (He does receive compliments, positive

> reinforcement, etc. from other behaviors.)

>

> Does this point to any particular nutritional or neurotransmitter

> deficit? Any supplement I could try?

>

> TIA,

>

>

[Guest guest]

This sounds like a problem with impulse control. Even though it seems

intentional, I don't think it is. I think there are hormonal imbalances

involved (dopamine/serotonin). I am thinking it is kind of like an addiction to

get a certain feeling. The things I can think of that help addiction are:

niacinamide, lithium orotate, and n-acetyl cysteine. You might want to do some

trials of those. Have you gotten a Hair Elements Test?

>

> > My older son (nearly 12 years old, ADHD, Anxiety Disorder) has

> > responded really well to GF/CF diet, supplements, some AC chelation

> > (we have more to do). Many of the behaviors that got him his diagnosis

> > have disappeared. One that persists, though, is seeking out intense

> > reactions from other people. Example: Uses rude language and then is

> > pleased by the shocked look on my face, " I love to see that look, " he

> > says, and doesn't mind being sent to his room for it. Example:

> > Provokes other children so that they chase him in anger. Example:

> > Plays " swords " with plastic light sabers until the other child gets

> > hit on the hand (it hurts). At times (it is not constant) he seems to

> > need intense or extreme reactions from other people, and most often

> > these are negative. He doesn't get the same pleasure from strong

> > positive reactions. (He does receive compliments, positive

> > reinforcement, etc. from other behaviors.)

> >

> > Does this point to any particular nutritional or neurotransmitter

> > deficit? Any supplement I could try?

> >

> > TIA,

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I've seen this with a few children in the classroom. Actually, I would say it is

present in 4 out of 5 kids with autism in varying degrees. Since I can't give my

students supplements, I handle it this way:

Attend to the child that was hurt, without looking angry, anxious, or alarmed.

Do not make any eye contact or interact with the child provoking the reaction.

Sort of like it was a bee sting and the bee is gone, so you just tend to it and

don't overreact because you don't want anyone to be alarmed.

Once the kid is feeling better, just move on as if it didn't happen. You can

give the hurt child praise for bucking up and acting grown up when he could have

chosen to get upset. Don't even reference the child that tried to provoke the

reation. You might need to redirect other kids that are watching, " it's not a

big deal, you need to continue doing what you were doing so I can help ny

take care of this. " That is the cue to those kids not to give a reaction either.

Later on you can dole out a natural consequence like, " I can't let you play with

that sword anymore because you were too rough with it and ny was hurt. " Say

it as a matter of fact consequence, not a punishment. (Some kids like being

punished. It's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen.)

He will protest, because of course there is an opportunity to disagree. Just

say something like, " you are finished playing with this sword from now on

because someone was hurt. You need to find something else to play with. "

The negative attention seeking will diminish as the child learns that he can not

upset you. Then you might see it change into positive attention seeking which

is really cool! When that happens, you do make eye contact, and smile, and let

them know how much they are maturing. From then on, I think everyone is happier.

Dr. Amen wrote some books about ADHD which refer to the need to have

negative stimulation as a stimulus. I think there are specific medications he

reccomends for that.

Jen

>

> My older son (nearly 12 years old, ADHD, Anxiety Disorder) has

> responded really well to GF/CF diet, supplements, some AC chelation

> (we have more to do). Many of the behaviors that got him his diagnosis

> have disappeared. One that persists, though, is seeking out intense

> reactions from other people. Example: Uses rude language and then is

> pleased by the shocked look on my face, " I love to see that look, " he

> says, and doesn't mind being sent to his room for it. Example:

> Provokes other children so that they chase him in anger. Example:

> Plays " swords " with plastic light sabers until the other child gets

> hit on the hand (it hurts). At times (it is not constant) he seems to

> need intense or extreme reactions from other people, and most often

> these are negative. He doesn't get the same pleasure from strong

> positive reactions. (He does receive compliments, positive

> reinforcement, etc. from other behaviors.)

>

> Does this point to any particular nutritional or neurotransmitter

> deficit? Any supplement I could try?

>

> TIA,

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is some great advice ! Thank you for the insight. I am always

looking for ideas to redirect without being able to give supplements because I

do work with other children beside my own too.

> >

> > My older son (nearly 12 years old, ADHD, Anxiety Disorder) has

> > responded really well to GF/CF diet, supplements, some AC chelation

> > (we have more to do). Many of the behaviors that got him his diagnosis

> > have disappeared. One that persists, though, is seeking out intense

> > reactions from other people. Example: Uses rude language and then is

> > pleased by the shocked look on my face, " I love to see that look, " he

> > says, and doesn't mind being sent to his room for it. Example:

> > Provokes other children so that they chase him in anger. Example:

> > Plays " swords " with plastic light sabers until the other child gets

> > hit on the hand (it hurts). At times (it is not constant) he seems to

> > need intense or extreme reactions from other people, and most often

> > these are negative. He doesn't get the same pleasure from strong

> > positive reactions. (He does receive compliments, positive

> > reinforcement, etc. from other behaviors.)

> >

> > Does this point to any particular nutritional or neurotransmitter

> > deficit? Any supplement I could try?

> >

> > TIA,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I got a Hair Elements Test on him in January. Can you tell me

what to look for/how to interpret it regarding this issue?

And, thanks also for the behavioral advice. I'll try to implement that

as well as address biomedically.

Posted by: " Liz " elizabethsoliday@... homewithb

Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:10 pm (PDT)

This sounds like a problem with impulse control. Even though it seems

intentional, I don't think it is. I think there are hormonal

imbalances involved (dopamine/serotonin). I am thinking it is kind of

like an addiction to get a certain feeling. The things I can think of

that help addiction are: niacinamide, lithium orotate, and n-acetyl

cysteine. You might want to do some trials of those. Have you gotten a

Hair Elements Test?

>

> > My older son (nearly 12 years old, ADHD, Anxiety Disorder) has

> > responded really well to GF/CF diet, supplements, some AC chelation

> > (we have more to do). Many of the behaviors that got him his diagnosis

> > have disappeared. One that persists, though, is seeking out intense

> > reactions from other people. Example: Uses rude language and then is

> > pleased by the shocked look on my face, " I love to see that look, " he

> > says, and doesn't mind being sent to his room for it. Example:

> > Provokes other children so that they chase him in anger. Example:

> > Plays " swords " with plastic light sabers until the other child gets

> > hit on the hand (it hurts). At times (it is not constant) he seems to

> > need intense or extreme reactions from other people, and most often

> > these are negative. He doesn't get the same pleasure from strong

> > positive reactions. (He does receive compliments, positive

> > reinforcement, etc. from other behaviors.)

> >

> > Does this point to any particular nutritional or neurotransmitter

> > deficit? Any supplement I could try?

> >

> > TIA,

> >

[Guest guest]

Look for low lithium, possibly. Also, calcium/magnesium and sodium/potassium

being on opposite sides of " average " , for example Cal-Mag high and Na-K low.

That is a sign of adrenal stress. Also, if the manganese is at all high, it

could be a problem. I have heard of supplementing a small amount of manganese

to correct it but have not gotten any feedback on whether that is a good idea.

If lead is elevated, start rounds of DMSA using the Cutler protocol. As you

chelate, the minerals should start getting back to their normal levels, but

there are some things you can give to make the child more comfortable or help

with symptoms while you are chelating. It would be best if you post the hair

test in the files if you haven't already - then you can get more opinions than

just mine.

Liz

> >

> > > My older son (nearly 12 years old, ADHD, Anxiety Disorder) has

> > > responded really well to GF/CF diet, supplements, some AC chelation

> > > (we have more to do). Many of the behaviors that got him his diagnosis

> > > have disappeared. One that persists, though, is seeking out intense

> > > reactions from other people. Example: Uses rude language and then is

> > > pleased by the shocked look on my face, " I love to see that look, " he

> > > says, and doesn't mind being sent to his room for it. Example:

> > > Provokes other children so that they chase him in anger. Example:

> > > Plays " swords " with plastic light sabers until the other child gets

> > > hit on the hand (it hurts). At times (it is not constant) he seems to

> > > need intense or extreme reactions from other people, and most often

> > > these are negative. He doesn't get the same pleasure from strong

> > > positive reactions. (He does receive compliments, positive

> > > reinforcement, etc. from other behaviors.)

> > >

> > > Does this point to any particular nutritional or neurotransmitter

> > > deficit? Any supplement I could try?

> > >

> > > TIA,

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I've uploaded Liam's hair test (Liam's " ds1 " hair test) to the files,

especially in response to Liz's suggestion that I do so. I'm

interested in any and all issues that the results may point toward.

He's not low lithium, his Ca/Mg ratio is on the low end of normal as

is his Na/K ratio...I believe he meets one counting rule. Please take

a look and let me know what you think, and any supplement suggestions.

And yes, we will get back to AC chelation.

TIA,

[Guest guest]

No counting rules are met.

The arsenic is a real concern. ALA and DMPS will chelate this. DMSA won't.

The ratios are unremarkable.

It might make sense to check blood copper for deficiency and selenium for

excess. Copper helps eliminate selenium, so a deficiency/excess might make

sense together.

How much selenium in supplements is he taking?

>

> I've uploaded Liam's hair test (Liam's " ds1 " hair test) to the files,

> especially in response to Liz's suggestion that I do so. I'm

> interested in any and all issues that the results may point toward.

> He's not low lithium, his Ca/Mg ratio is on the low end of normal as

> is his Na/K ratio...I believe he meets one counting rule. Please take

> a look and let me know what you think, and any supplement suggestions.

> And yes, we will get back to AC chelation.

>

> TIA,

>

>

[Guest guest]

No counting rules are met.

He's taking 200mcg selenium about every other day, so 600 - 800 mcg

per week. Shall I discontinue?

He does eat a lot of chicken, which I suspect is the source of

arsenic.(We drink distilled or RO water.) What are the symptoms of

arsenic poisoning?

--

The arsenic is a real concern. ALA and DMPS will chelate this. DMSA won't.

The ratios are unremarkable.

It might make sense to check blood copper for deficiency and selenium

for excess. Copper helps eliminate selenium, so a deficiency/excess

might make sense together.

How much selenium in supplements is he taking?

>

> I've uploaded Liam's hair test (Liam's " ds1 " hair test) to the files,

> especially in response to Liz's suggestion that I do so. I'm

> interested in any and all issues that the results may point toward.

> He's not low lithium, his Ca/Mg ratio is on the low end of normal as

> is his Na/K ratio...I believe he meets one counting rule. Please take

> a look and let me know what you think, and any supplement suggestions.

> And yes, we will get back to AC chelation.

>

> TIA,

>