Re: Andy Cutler method vs. DAN method

[Guest guest]

I believe every case will be different with the overall success rate of low

and slow being the best.

When we started this journey, I learned of Dr. Cutler and the truth is we

were still scared and indoctrinated into believing the MD knew best. NOT.

Our son got better in many ways. Due to his low neutrophil count, we did

not chelate for several years.

Our son got better by instituting diet changes: gf/cf/sf. he was helped by

adding metabolic supports, generally the ones recommended by Dr. Cutler but

were also prescribed by our son's DAN physician. In addition, instituting a

modified ABA/Floortime program in our home helped our son, as well.

When we finally started to chelate, we did oral, transdermal, suppository.

None of that worked at all.

Later, we did IV chelation using DMPS and then DMSA and then DMPS with

EDTA. I strongly recommend against this, and wish we'd listened to DR.

Cutler and done his protocol.

While a lot of metals came out, and our son did improve in some ways, his

stimming returned whereas before we began chelation, his stimming had

stopped. The worst part was our son had a reaction seven months into IV

chelation. The MD said it was a " coincidence. " Where had I heard that

before? We went back again, and though nervous, he had another treatment,

and again, he had a respiratory reaction --and this time it snowballed into

pneumonia.

In addition, he developed an allergy to sulfa drugs and even broke out in

hive after eating broccoli --something that had never happened before.

We thought it was the sulfur in the DMPS. We took a break for several

months, and then worried as he tested high in lead again. We saw

regression.

We went back in June of this year and began IV chelation with EDTA only. On

the fourth treatment, our son had a severe asthma attack afterward. Then

the doctor said he wanted to continue with the treatment but add giving oral

prednisolone before the treatment. Our son had had oral prednisolone before

and that had resulted in a psychotic episode. We said " No freaking way. "

and have not been back.

We thank our lucky stars that nothing more serious happened to our son, and

we will never do IV chelation again. We now wish we had done the AC

protocol back when we first learned of it. Our son has improved so much

over the years with the other interventions. He regained all forms of

speech. We believe if we had started the AC protocol sooner, he might have

lost the ASD diagnosis by now.

We are getting his yeast under control, and plan to start the AC protocol

within the next two weeks. It may take three years (it can take 100-300

rounds, I believe), but I believe it is best to be cautious with these

compounds, and IV chelation moves metals around. I think this is what

happened to our son and brought the stimming back. I was alwasy scared to

death whenever he got the IV treatment, and rightfully so.

In addition, there are many physicians out there who are charging parents

and not filing insurance even when they have coverage for this. It is okay

if you tell the parents, but many aren't even telling them so they can file

it, so IV can be extremely draining to the budget. I know the DAN protocol

just about broke us.

Read Andy's book. I think you will gain much insight from it.

Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Folks:

> > >

> > > I'm considering using the Cutler Method for my son . Can people give

me an indication about whether this method has worked for them. I have a lot of

reading to do yet but wanted to know whether the following approach is

reasonable:

> > >

> > > 1. do hair test

(http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html#counting_rules)

> > >

> > > 2. try supplements

> > >

> > > 3. if hair test comes back positive, do chelation.... if not then to a

short trial chelation to see if it works for sure.

> > >

> > > What are the dangers of following these rules. What are the success

rates.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This may give you some additional information to think about. ALA is very

powerful and can cross the BBB. Several years ago I read an article about a

study done at Berkley. They fed very old mice Acetyl-L-Carnitine, and over

time, the mice began acting like middle aged mice. Then they added in ALA,

and over time the results were phenomenal. The old mice acted like young

mice.

However, mice do no have amalgam fillings in their mouths. The combination

of Acetyl-L-Carnitine and ALA was then formulated into a supplement called

Juvenon. I bought some and took it --(before I knew better), as I have

amalgam fillings in my mouth. Talk about brain fog! It was awful.

I don't think anyone with amalgams in their mouth should take ALA, though

you can buy it at Wal-Mart OTC. i wonder how many people do that and then

wonder why they can't think straight.

If you chelate, you want to use the AC protocol because it keeps the metals

from redepositing elsewhere in the body. You must remove all amalgams first

and wait a while before beginning chelation.

Read Andy's book, get a hair test done, and if it shows heavy metal

toxicity, then you should chelate. Never take ALA as a supplement if you

have amalgam fillings.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this information! Both scientifical research and you own practical

experience!

Sincerely,

________________________________

From: Haven DeLay <hdelay@...>

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 9:26:11 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Andy Cutler method vs. DAN method

 

This may give you some additional information to think about. ALA is very

powerful and can cross the BBB. Several years ago I read an article about a

study done at Berkley. They fed very old mice Acetyl-L-Carnitine, and over

time, the mice began acting like middle aged mice. Then they added in ALA,

and over time the results were phenomenal. The old mice acted like young

mice.

However, mice do no have amalgam fillings in their mouths. The combination

of Acetyl-L-Carnitine and ALA was then formulated into a supplement called

Juvenon. I bought some and took it --(before I knew better), as I have

amalgam fillings in my mouth. Talk about brain fog! It was awful.

I don't think anyone with amalgams in their mouth should take ALA, though

you can buy it at Wal-Mart OTC. i wonder how many people do that and then

wonder why they can't think straight.

If you chelate, you want to use the AC protocol because it keeps the metals

from redepositing elsewhere in the body. You must remove all amalgams first

and wait a while before beginning chelation.

Read Andy's book, get a hair test done, and if it shows heavy metal

toxicity, then you should chelate. Never take ALA as a supplement if you

have amalgam fillings.

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

You are very knowledgeable about Dr. Cutler's protocols. Have you successfully

used this with your children.

Thanks,

Tom

> > > >

> > > > Folks:

> > > >

> > > > I'm considering using the Cutler Method for my son . Can people

give me an indication about whether this method has worked for them. I have a

lot of reading to do yet but wanted to know whether the following approach is

reasonable:

> > > >

> > > > 1. do hair test

(http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html#counting_rules)

> > > >

> > > > 2. try supplements

> > > >

> > > > 3. if hair test comes back positive, do chelation.... if not then to a

short trial chelation to see if it works for sure.

> > > >

> > > > What are the dangers of following these rules. What are the success

rates.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Thanks for that quick response Ideals. Please let me ask a follow

question. What is (are) the fundamental difference(s) between Cutler's Method

and the DAN method. Why is Cutler's method safe.

> > >

> >

> > Andy Cutler's protocol uses safe quantities of chelators (small doses) given

at the half life of the chelator, which follows basic principles of

pharmacology. This means that there is a steady supply of chelator in the blood

for the chelation period while the metal moves out of the body. During that

period of time the metals actually move and there is little or no redistribution

of metals to new areas where they would cause more harm.

> >

> > The principles of pharmacology that Andy uses are nothing new. They have

been used with dosing drugs for years. In the case of chelation it is

****absolutely essential***** to give doses at the half life because of the

****toxicity of the metals**** that we are trying to move.

> >

> > DAN protocols are variable depending on which doctor prescribes them. (It

doesn't take much to become a DAN practitioner). In general they prescribe

doses of chelator which are far too high for the individual and the doses are

given at intervals longer than the half life. That means that with **every

dose** there is a large amount of redistribution of metals and great harm when

those metals settle to new cells and tissues in the body, where they weren't

before. The redistribution caused by DAN protocols is very important because

that is what leads to long term often irreversible worsening of symptoms which

can be devastating to the child or adult (and completely avoidable if the person

uses Andy's protocol).

> >

> > To give you an idea of differences in doses.... Andy's protocol uses 1/8-1/2

mg/lb of ALA, DMSA or DMPS. DAN protocols can use up to 10 mg/kg. If you do

the math you will find that DAN doctors give hugely excessive quantities of

chelators. If you follow the groups and listen to the side effects that adults

report sometimes from even the tiniest doses of chelators, like 5-25 mg, you

will understand why adults like me want to speak out when they hear that DAN

doctors are giving kids 10 mg DMSA/kg. Search autism mercury archives and you

will find that those kind of doses have been reported here. 25 mg was too much

for me (about 1/8 mg/lb).

> >

> > Andy is a PhD chemist who cured himself. He did so by reading all of the

literature first to know what to do, then he supplemented himself, and he

chelated himself. He understands what is going on with the chemistry of the

human body. His supplement list is designed to replace the things that the

person needs in order to heal properly. Doctors and naturopaths or others who

are prescribing chelators do not have anywhere near the qualifications that Andy

has. Plus he has been listening to chelation experiences ever since he started

to write his " Amalgam Illness " book.

> >

> > Andy's protocol requires the use of ALA to clear metals from the brain and

internal organs. DAN groups do not use ALA properly. Most DAN protocols do not

use ALA and those that do use ALA at an interval longer than the half life which

would actually force metals INTO the brain leading to long term worsening. The

DAN community simply does not understand the proper use of ALA from what I can

tell.

> >

> > Different DAN doctors do different things. I am generalizing from what I

have read here over the years and from reading DAN consensus committee reports.

> >

> > We have files in the frequent dose chelation group of links to

progress reports from people who used Andy's protocol and others we call

" adverse reaction to inappropriate chelation " which would include DAN protocols.

There is also a file of Andy's posts and some posts from Andy on the differences

between Andy and DAN protocols. He adds humor usually.

> >

> > J

> >

> >

> > > Best,

> > > Tom

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to comment on this post.

I have a mouth full of amalgam fillings and I have been taking 600mg/day of ALA

for blood sugar control for the past 4 weeks.

Initally I was taking 300mg in the am and 300 in the pm but now I am just taking

600 in pm.

How come I have not had any of the effects you are describing.

ALA is widely recommended for blood sugar control along with a few other

supplements. Cinnamon etc.

I did not have any problems and it did reduce my morning blood sugar from around

115 to high 80's within a few days. I have not had any physical change.

I would be curious to hear some of your comments. I joined this group a few

days after I started the ALA myself. I plan on started my DD age 4 right after

Christmas with Andy's method and have been wondering about this for quite some

time.

Thanks,

>

> This may give you some additional information to think about. ALA is very

> powerful and can cross the BBB. Several years ago I read an article about a

> study done at Berkley. They fed very old mice Acetyl-L-Carnitine, and over

> time, the mice began acting like middle aged mice. Then they added in ALA,

> and over time the results were phenomenal. The old mice acted like young

> mice.

>

> However, mice do no have amalgam fillings in their mouths. The combination

> of Acetyl-L-Carnitine and ALA was then formulated into a supplement called

> Juvenon. I bought some and took it --(before I knew better), as I have

> amalgam fillings in my mouth. Talk about brain fog! It was awful.

>

> I don't think anyone with amalgams in their mouth should take ALA, though

> you can buy it at Wal-Mart OTC. i wonder how many people do that and then

> wonder why they can't think straight.

>

> If you chelate, you want to use the AC protocol because it keeps the metals

> from redepositing elsewhere in the body. You must remove all amalgams first

> and wait a while before beginning chelation.

>

> Read Andy's book, get a hair test done, and if it shows heavy metal

> toxicity, then you should chelate. Never take ALA as a supplement if you

> have amalgam fillings.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you might need Andy to comment. I only know when I took it, I had

horrible brain fog, and then reading up about ALA, the likelihood that it

might just move the metals around or possibly pull the mercury from an

amalgam filling made me think that was possibly why I had the severe brain

fog after taking it.

Of course, at the time, I knew nothing about the AC protocol, and I was not

dosing on the half-life, so that may have been a factor. I'd like to hear

Dana or Andy's view on this, for if one could do ALA while having amalgams,

I'd like to know if it is indeed beneficial so long as you dose every three

hours. I don't think I would try it again unless Dana or Andy commented

about the safety of it if one has amalgam's.

[Guest guest]

>

> I think you might need Andy to comment. I only know when I took it, I had

> horrible brain fog, and then reading up about ALA, the likelihood that it

> might just move the metals around or possibly pull the mercury from an

> amalgam filling made me think that was possibly why I had the severe brain

> fog after taking it.

>

> Of course, at the time, I knew nothing about the AC protocol, and I was not

> dosing on the half-life, so that may have been a factor. I'd like to hear

> Dana or Andy's view on this, for if one could do ALA while having amalgams,

Some people can. They're the ones not sensitive to mercury.

The sensitive ones will get slammed and it is VERY VERY hard to reverse the

damage they do.

It's like playing russian roulette a few times with a revolver you see laying on

a table - you can SEE that 4 cylinders are empty. The other 2 might or might

not be.

The people who tolerate mercury well are those whose genetics didn't load either

of the remaining cylinders. The sensitive people are the ones whose genes

loaded one or both of them.

If the cylinders turn out not to be loaded, you can play any number of times

with no consequence.

The problem is you don't know if they're loaded, you only find out if you

experience a consequence. Whether it is a bullet from a revolver or horrible

neurological symptoms from ALA, you do NOT want to find out that way. It's best

to try something else instead.

> I'd like to know if it is indeed beneficial so long as you dose every three

> hours.

Yes. Very much so. Also for chronic active hepatitis C. 3 hour dosing works

better than 1-3 times a day dosing.

> I don't think I would try it again unless Dana or Andy commented

> about the safety of it if one has amalgam's.

I would never suggest trying it with amalgams if you were not in a life

threatening situation.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

Here is an old post of Andy's:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html

> > >

> > > Folks:

> > >

> > > I'm considering using the Cutler Method for my son . Can people give

me an indication about whether this method has worked for them. I have a lot of

reading to do yet but wanted to know whether the following approach is

reasonable:

> > >

> > > 1. do hair test

(http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html#counting_rules)

> > >

> > > 2. try supplements

> > >

> > > 3. if hair test comes back positive, do chelation.... if not then to a

short trial chelation to see if it works for sure.

> > >

> > > What are the dangers of following these rules. What are the success

rates.

> > >

> >

>