Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Hi . I will just relate our experience. When we started biomed we had an OAT test done, which showed a need for B12, as did my son's hair test which showed cobalt in the red. We put him on B12 shots and Folapro - and it was great, it jump started language etc. We started chelation a couple of months later. About 6 to 7 months later, my husband, who gave the shots said he felt our son regressed while on them. We added DMG to the cocktail and for a while there was improvement. But again we saw regression and hyperactivity develop. Still I was loath to stop so we continued, but even I began to notice the regression. We did not do a repeat OAT test, but we did a follow up hair test, and his cobalt was right in the middle, in a normal range. So we stopped the shots, and he got much better. In fact we had to stop the Folapro and the DMG - all methylators. And he did improve significantly. Not all kids need such high levels of B12 forever. In our case, perhaps the several months of chelating improved things for him. So I think you might be correct there, as chelation reduces the toxic load, various processes in the body improve, which might reduce the need for the B12. If you notice regression, stop the shots. Irene > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Thanks, needed to know I wasn't crazy. My son is just regressing behaviorally. He is getting hyper and real unstable emotionally after the shot. He goes from hitting and being angry to crying and saying cuddle me two seconds later. It seems bad the day after the shot, and calms down the next two days until his shot again. When I started biomed I told myself I didn't like the idea that he would have to take anything for life, and these things would be temporary until I repair what's broken. I think the diet and organic living will be forever though. I think I am going to try weaning him off the shots and start using the suckers again, (they work for me, and seem a more natural route of entry). Thanks for the input. ________________________________ From: iflow97 <iflow97@...> Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:49:40 PM Subject: [ ] Re: MB-12 question Hi . I will just relate our experience. When we started biomed we had an OAT test done, which showed a need for B12, as did my son's hair test which showed cobalt in the red. We put him on B12 shots and Folapro - and it was great, it jump started language etc. We started chelation a couple of months later.. About 6 to 7 months later, my husband, who gave the shots said he felt our son regressed while on them. We added DMG to the cocktail and for a while there was improvement. But again we saw regression and hyperactivity develop. Still I was loath to stop so we continued, but even I began to notice the regression. We did not do a repeat OAT test, but we did a follow up hair test, and his cobalt was right in the middle, in a normal range. So we stopped the shots, and he got much better. In fact we had to stop the Folapro and the DMG - all methylators. And he did improve significantly. Not all kids need such high levels of B12 forever. In our case, perhaps the several months of chelating improved things for him. So I think you might be correct there, as chelation reduces the toxic load, various processes in the body improve, which might reduce the need for the B12. If you notice regression, stop the shots. Irene > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hi I believe that Andy has often said that mb12 dosage can be very individual and to start low with things like lozenges and work up and to watch for irritability and aggression and then maybe to use shots if it becomes impractical due to the dose becoming too large to take orally. If there is this kind of regression then it would probably be better to stop b12 completely at least until these symptoms wear off, (especially for people with older and bigger kids) which unfortunately may take up to a few months if the doses given are far too much for what can be handled, plenty of physical excersise like jumping on a trampoline might help to decrease the symptoms duration. We used a b12 sub-lingual spray under the tongue, but our son eventually became very irritable with this, we do now give very low dose lozenges which does help, but have so far been unable to increase his dose. Kenny > > > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 From: k.ozbo <k.ozbo@...> Subject: [ ] Re: MB-12 question Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 2:17 PM  Hi I believe that Andy has often said that mb12 dosage can be very individual and to start low with things like lozenges and work up and to watch for irritability and aggression and then maybe to use shots if it becomes impractical due to the dose becoming too large to take orally. If there is this kind of regression then it would probably be better to stop b12 completely at least until these symptoms wear off, (especially for people with older and bigger kids) which unfortunately may take up to a few months if the doses given are far too much for what can be handled, plenty of physical excersise like jumping on a trampoline might help to decrease the symptoms duration. We used a b12 sub-lingual spray under the tongue, but our son eventually became very irritable with this, we do now give very low dose lozenges which does help, but have so far been unable to increase his dose. Kenny > > > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 >>do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? My son required mito cocktail before his mitochondrial dysfunction was corrected. I wrote about it here http://www.danasview.net/mar05.htm Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 > Thanks, needed to know I wasn't crazy. My son is just regressing behaviorally. He is getting hyper and real unstable emotionally after the shot. He goes from hitting and being angry to crying and saying cuddle me two seconds later. It seems bad the day after the shot, and calms down the next two days until his shot again. At my house, B12 required carnitine, folic acid, and B2 for proper absorption. Maybe the B12 is not being properly absorbed. Also, B12 tended to increase yeast, so might be that also. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 the reason I think he may not need it anymore, is we have been giving the shots for about 9 or 10 months. In the beginning his brain would short out if he missed a shot, (slurred speech, pausing to think, confusion) Now he seems better when he misses them. His OAT test showed as average as you can get for B-12 marker, when before it was way in the red even on the shots. We got rid of lots of mercury and he is in the normal range now. Here's the list of supps. he's been on for at least 8 months. MB 12 shots every 3 days (at one time it was every other day) Optimag- (magnesium, malic acid, taurine, succcinic acid) Co Enzyme B Complex (too much stuff to list, but probably has that B you listed) UBQH (Ubiquinol form of Co Q-10) zinc, vit. D3, occasionally vit. A, CLO, Buffered vit. C These are the main ones I always have. During chelation of course we added minerals, and I have tried other stuff, but these are my everyday supps Just started Biofilm Defense and Enhansa about a month ago, and they seem to help him stay healthy Thanks for the input, . ________________________________ From: danasview <danasview@...> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 6:38:09 AM Subject: [ ] Re: MB-12 question > Thanks, needed to know I wasn't crazy. My son is just regressing behaviorally. He is getting hyper and real unstable emotionally after the shot. He goes from hitting and being angry to crying and saying cuddle me two seconds later. It seems bad the day after the shot, and calms down the next two days until his shot again. At my house, B12 required carnitine, folic acid, and B2 for proper absorption. Maybe the B12 is not being properly absorbed. Also, B12 tended to increase yeast, so might be that also. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thanks for responding. You make a good point, like everything else about are kids, they are unique to anyone else, so it makes sense some might need different doses of B-12. I have a trampoline in the garage, I'll bring it back out. ________________________________ From: k.ozbo <k.ozbo@...> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 6:17:34 AM Subject: [ ] Re: MB-12 question Hi I believe that Andy has often said that mb12 dosage can be very individual and to start low with things like lozenges and work up and to watch for irritability and aggression and then maybe to use shots if it becomes impractical due to the dose becoming too large to take orally. If there is this kind of regression then it would probably be better to stop b12 completely at least until these symptoms wear off, (especially for people with older and bigger kids) which unfortunately may take up to a few months if the doses given are far too much for what can be handled, plenty of physical excersise like jumping on a trampoline might help to decrease the symptoms duration. We used a b12 sub-lingual spray under the tongue, but our son eventually became very irritable with this, we do now give very low dose lozenges which does help, but have so far been unable to increase his dose. Kenny > > > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Usually regressions on B12 injection mean you to stop doing them. They are not tolerating the B12. Not all kids do and not all kids get improvements from B12 shots. > > > > > > > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 When you say " After Chelation " - what kind of chelation and how long. If he is still having behavior issues and other problems, he is probably still mercury toxic. Have you done a hair test? TJ ________________________________ From: <vegascurls@...> Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:59:46 PM Subject: [ ] MB-12 question  On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 We did transdermal DMPS, DMSA, and oral EDTA. His porph test is in the " normal " range now for mercury, but yes there is still some there. The thing is I think he is having reactions from the B-12 that he may not need so much now. I gave him a shot last night, and this morning he had a rash on his face he was scratching, and he was agitated right away when he woke up. His last shot, 3 days ago, he woke up and jumped and it went everywhere and he freaked out, so I just gave him a B-12 sucker the next day, and he has been pretty good the last couple days. If I miss shots, he seems better. The OAT test shows B-12 marker as very normal now. I figure the behaviors, (impulse control, agitation, hyper) are probably the mercury, I just think his mitochondria might be functioning now. ________________________________ From: TJ Werth <tj_werth@...> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 9:34:19 AM Subject: Re: [ ] MB-12 question When you say " After Chelation " - what kind of chelation and how long. If he is still having behavior issues and other problems, he is probably still mercury toxic. Have you done a hair test? TJ ____________ _________ _________ __ From: <vegascurls (DOT) com> Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:59:46 PM Subject: [ ] MB-12 question On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 We didn't have any success with the B12 shots, and had the aggression as well. Urine tests can be misleading and should never be used as a way to know if you are done with chelation. I would suggest a hair test, or just do a 10 round trial of chelation using the Andy Cutler protocol. You are done with chelation when your child has recovered, meaning no special diets, no special supplements, and NT behavior. TJ ________________________________ From: Greenberg <vegascurls@...> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 10:12:03 AM Subject: Re: [ ] MB-12 question  We did transdermal DMPS, DMSA, and oral EDTA. His porph test is in the " normal " range now for mercury, but yes there is still some there. The thing is I think he is having reactions from the B-12 that he may not need so much now. I gave him a shot last night, and this morning he had a rash on his face he was scratching, and he was agitated right away when he woke up. His last shot, 3 days ago, he woke up and jumped and it went everywhere and he freaked out, so I just gave him a B-12 sucker the next day, and he has been pretty good the last couple days. If I miss shots, he seems better. The OAT test shows B-12 marker as very normal now. I figure the behaviors, (impulse control, agitation, hyper) are probably the mercury, I just think his mitochondria might be functioning now. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: TJ Werth <tj_werth (DOT) com> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 9:34:19 AM Subject: Re: [ ] MB-12 question When you say " After Chelation " - what kind of chelation and how long. If he is still having behavior issues and other problems, he is probably still mercury toxic. Have you done a hair test? TJ ____________ _________ _________ __ From: <vegascurls@ . com> Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:59:46 PM Subject: [ ] MB-12 question On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 My son actually needed hydroxy B12 and active folate. We use B12-2000 from Biotics which is a sublingual. Note it doesn't dissolve as easily as the Jarrow MB12 ones though. Some docs r/x a nasal spray but that wasn't practical for us. PJ I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 > the reason I think he may not need it anymore, is we have been giving the shots for about 9 or 10 months. In the beginning his brain would short out if he missed a shot, (slurred speech, pausing to think, confusion) Now he seems better when he misses them. There came a time when my son no longer needed B12 also, so that might be it. Stop giving the shots for a few weeks, then give one. See if he might still need some B12 every once in a while. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I had hyperactivity too.I try upping the dose to see if I can do it one day a month,and I still can't do it more than oce a day. I just found this http://www.nbnus.net/shopexd.asp?id=338 <http://www.nbnus.net/shopexd.asp?id=338> $35.00 a bottle no prescription needed. > > > > > > > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 This is also how it happened with my boys. The shots were needed for about 6 months for my more severe child and 4 months for the older one and then we used the lozenges to maintain. > > > > On my son's first OAT test he showed desperate need for B-12. At the time he was already on the shots for a month and a half. His porph test was also really high for mercury. After chelation he still has mercury but is in the normal range. His OAT test also shows now that he is about as normal as you can get on the MMA (marker for B-12) Does this mean that I don't need B-12 anymore since the mercury load is down? The last OAT test we had him on only Stan Kurtz suckers, no shots for at least a month. He seemed to do better with out the shots. He suddenly regressed behaviorally and we thought it was the shots so we put him back on. Since then he has had more behavior problems (while on the shots) so I don't think this is the cause. I was wondering if it is necessary to still give the shots, or do some kids recover mitochondrial function when mercury is removed? Thanks for any input, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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