RE: Re: Day 9 after stopping LDN...weird exercise phenomenon

[Guest guest]

As a sincere traveller struggling to get

steady on LDN for 4 months now, I can admit that the few messages about half

life etc have simply confused me.

My ongoing query remains and this was perhaps

illuminated by dr Zagons interview when he talked about dosing every other day

perhaps suiting some people more. I accept that I may have to experiment some

more and suspect the recent posts have been in an effort to be helpful, just

sadly they haven’t clarified anything for me.

Nuala

From:

low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Art Hansen

Sent: 10 July 2009 12:00

To:

low dose naltrexone

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re:

Day 9 after stopping LDN...weird exercise phenomenon

We have people in this group who don't even use LDN

and they're offering up advice and information as if a seasoned veteran. I

think they're making things more complicated than necessary. Too bad for the

newer members as this only confuses and frightens them.

Art

My MS/LDN story/1988 - 2009

http://tinyurl.com/mejs2t

---

>

> now this analysis was done on 50 MG, so how does this breakdown with 3 or

4.5 MG? is it 89 and 84% lower? and compared to 100 and 150 MG dosing?

>

> everyone's now a rocket scientist?

[Guest guest]

I totally agree Art!! Its is too bad because their missing out on something thats will actually help them rather then hurt them. May there be a miracle in YOUR life today and may you have the EYES to see it.From My Heart to Yours Love, Hugs & Blessings, CrystalLDN_Users Group OwnerDiagnosed November 2004 with Secondary Progressive MS, Transverse Myelitis and an Advocate for LDN!! 3 years 10

months on LDN with Skip's Pharmacy.....No Relapses.....Crystal's MS,TM & LDN Websitewww.crystalsmstmldn.orgLDN Website www.ldninfo.org Crystal's LDN Support GroupLDN_Users/ LDN MySpacewww.myspace.com/low dose naltrexone LDN Help - International Users’ Resourceswww.ldn-help.com Low Dose Naltrexone Databasehttp://ldn-database.carnebeach.com/ Up the Creek with a Paddlewww.marybradleybooks.com Skip's Compounding Pharmacywww.skipspharmacy.com From: Art Hansen <rtee54@...>low dose naltrexone Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 6:00:21 AMSubject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Day 9 after stopping LDN...weird exercise phenomenon

We have people in this group who don't even use LDN and they're offering up advice and information as if a seasoned veteran. I think they're making things more complicated than necessary. Too bad for the newer members as this only confuses and frightens them.

Art

My MS/LDN story/1988 - 2009

http://tinyurl. com/mejs2t

---

>

> now this analysis was done on 50 MG, so how does this breakdown with 3 or 4.5 MG? is it 89 and 84% lower? and compared to 100 and 150 MG dosing?

>

> everyone's now a rocket scientist?

[Guest guest]

The link I posted to the Psychotropic Drug Handbook talks

about the route of excretion for LDN, a very small

percentage is eliminated through the feces. Most of it is

metabolized in the liver and the filtered into the urine by

the kidneys.

I have not resumed LDN yet. I am still working on

eliminating gluten and casein from my diet. I have been off

of both for several weeks and now. It's a bit challenging

since I am not eating any corn or oatmeal either.

Garnet

>

>

> Thanks, Garnet, for clarifying this. I forgot that " half-life " means the

> time it takes for only half the drug to come out. This would mean that

> it's in the body longer even than 4 days. I think this article was

> taking into account the amount that gets stored in the body as well, and

> including that in the half-life statistics. I never realized how long it

> takes the body to get rid of residual drugs. The dangerous psychiatric

> drugs I quit 3 years ago are probably still in me, especially Zyprexa,

> which has an extremely long half-life.

>

> I thought naltrexone was cleared mainly by the kidneys, not the liver as

> you say, but I may be wrong. Yet since drinking a lot more water I feel

> better.

>

> Have you resumed LDN yet? If so, is it going better this time?

>

> Annette

>

>

> >

> > >

> > > The only thing I could figure was that residue naltrexone settled

> in my

> > > tissues, and that exercise stirs it up and causes it to recirculate

> > > through my blood into my brain, where it blocks the endorphins all

> over

> > > again. Well, a very astute and kind person in this group shared

> with me

> > > some info on the half-life of naltrexone. It turns out that it's

> > > biphasic. The initial phase of detoxification is 10 hours. Then the

> > > second phase occurs after 24 hours. There is a slow decline of plasma

> > > concentrations of naltrexone, with a half-life of 96 hours, or 4 days!

> > > The article says that sequestration of the drug in tissues may

> result in

> > > a slow release to the circulation.

> > >

> > >

>

http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+life\

+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=en\

& ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9

>

<http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+lif\

e+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=e\

n & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9>

>

> > >

>

<http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+lif\

e+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=e\

n & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9

>

<http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+lif\

e+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=e\

n & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9>>

> > >

> > > So this would mean that since I took it 20 days, it would take

> about 80

> > > days, or nearly three months, to get rid of the residual naltrexone.

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

annettetry some milk thistlecyndiOn Jul 11, 2009, at 12:10 PM, Garnet wrote:The link I posted to the Psychotropic Drug Handbook talks about the route of excretion for LDN, a very small percentage is eliminated through the feces. Most of it is metabolized in the liver and the filtered into the urine by the kidneys.I have not resumed LDN yet. I am still working on eliminating gluten and casein from my diet. I have been off of both for several weeks and now. It's a bit challenging since I am not eating any corn or oatmeal either.Garnet> > > Thanks, Garnet, for clarifying this. I forgot that "half-life" means the > time it takes for only half the drug to come out. This would mean that > it's in the body longer even than 4 days. I think this article was > taking into account the amount that gets stored in the body as well, and > including that in the half-life statistics. I never realized how long it > takes the body to get rid of residual drugs. The dangerous psychiatric > drugs I quit 3 years ago are probably still in me, especially Zyprexa, > which has an extremely long half-life.> > I thought naltrexone was cleared mainly by the kidneys, not the liver as > you say, but I may be wrong. Yet since drinking a lot more water I feel > better.> > Have you resumed LDN yet? If so, is it going better this time?> > Annette> > > >> > >> > > The only thing I could figure was that residue naltrexone settled > in my> > > tissues, and that exercise stirs it up and causes it to recirculate> > > through my blood into my brain, where it blocks the endorphins all > over> > > again. Well, a very astute and kind person in this group shared > with me> > > some info on the half-life of naltrexone. It turns out that it's> > > biphasic. The initial phase of detoxification is 10 hours. Then the> > > second phase occurs after 24 hours. There is a slow decline of plasma> > > concentrations of naltrexone, with a half-life of 96 hours, or 4 days!> > > The article says that sequestration of the drug in tissues may > result in> > > a slow release to the circulation.> > >> > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+life+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=en & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9 > <http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+life+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=en & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9> > > > > > <http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+life+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=en & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9 > <http://books.google.com/books?id=h7lva61Muq4C & pg=PA418 & lpg=PA418 & dq=%22half+life+of+naltrexone%22 & source=bl & ots=AvwpjyqSx4 & sig=Q49tkN_bDdfO_O9z8-E0MjY9xXc & hl=en & ei=uLNUSuDYJ4WEtwet3JmaCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=9>>> > >> > > So this would mean that since I took it 20 days, it would take > about 80> > > days, or nearly three months, to get rid of the residual naltrexone.> > >> >> >

[Guest guest]

annetehonestly take some milk thistle - is does a liver good. most of us should be taking some after a life time of all the garbage we put in out bodies. cyndiOn Jul 11, 2009, at 6:56 PM, annettek73 wrote:I agree, Jann, half-life is very important. Doctors never told me about half-life when they prescribed me dangerous psychiatric drugs. After studying the half-life stuff about naltrexone, I realize that the symptoms I was trying to cure using LDN, which I thought were protracted withdrawal from those pills, might actually be partly from residual psyche drugs still in my body. It's something that is a bit disturbing to me. I wonder if they have Ativan and Zyprexa chelation?Annette-- In low dose naltrexone , "jannz2" <jbreslin@...> wrote:>> Understanding the 'half-life' of ANY medication you take is an important aspect of managing your health therapy. > > The half-life of the T4 thyroid hormone replacement medication (Ie; Synthroid) is approximately 6wks -- and it doesn't matter what dose you take.>

[Guest guest]

sbtrfly74 wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

> I know I'm new here and I find all of this information

grateful. Based

> on my drug guides Oral naltrexone only has a 4hr half

life not 10. The

> IM (intramuscular injection) has a half life of 5-10 days

(which is why

> it is taken only once every 4 weeks). I'm not meaning to

step on

> anyone's toes here, but want to make sure you have

correct information

> since it was said they heard it from someone else.

**************************************************************

Here are referencs for the half life of Naltrexone to be ~10

in the first phase and 96hrs in the second phase.

The IM Naltrexone that has a half life of 5 -10 days is a

prolonged release formulation.

I have seen many statements as to the 4 hr half life but

they were consistently without a referral to the original

study. There are several below that cite the original

journal article.

There was a reference to a difference in plasma levels after

various doseage amounts that was inconsistent

with dose. And there is some discussion of LDN being

sequestered in tissues. I only mention this as an indication

of some variability between individuals in how the drug is

metabolized.

The only speculation I have on why some report the half life

at 4 hours is that in dog studies it is 4 hours. Since these

references do not cite the publication it is impossible to

check and see what species the half life was

determined in but that could explain the discrepancy.

Garnet

========================================================

http://preview.tinyurl.com/mgasfo

The Psychotropic Drug Handbook

The Psychotropic Drug Handbook said that the half life of

Naltrexone is biphasic with an initial 10 hr half life in

the first phase and in the second phase 24 hours after

dosing, a half life of 96 hours, indicating probable

sequestration in tissue and slow release to circulation. Its

major metabolite beta-naltrexol also showed biphasic half

life dynamics with an initial phase of 12 hours and a

terminal phase of 18 hours. Beta-naltrexol is less active

but does have some activity.

========================================================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/954353

Naltrexone: disposition, metabolism, and effects after acute

and chronic dosing.

The disposition of naltrexone during acute and chronic

administration of 100-mg oral dose was studied in 4 subjects....

The half-life of naltrexone and beta-naltrexol decreased

slightly from the acute to thechronic study from 10.3 +/-

3.3 to 9.7 +/- 1.1 hr and from 12.7 +/- 2.6 to 11.4 +/- 2.0

hr. The plasma levels of naltrexone declined slowly from 24

through 72 hr from 2.4 to 1.7 ng/ml, with an apparent

half-life of 96 hr.

=========================================================

http://www.jfponline.com/Pages.asp?AID=471

Pharmacotherapy of alcohol dependence: How and when to use

disulfiram and naltrexone

The Journal of Family Practice February 2002 (Vol. 1, No. 2)

The half-life of naltrexone in chronic administration is

approximately 10 hours; the half-life of 6-?-naltrexol is 12

to 16 hours.

sbtrfly74 wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

> I know I'm new here and I find all of this information grateful. Based

> on my drug guides Oral naltrexone only has a 4hr half life not 10. The

> IM (intramuscular injection) has a half life of 5-10 days (which is why

> it is taken only once every 4 weeks). I'm not meaning to step on

> anyone's toes here, but want to make sure you have correct information

> since it was said they heard it from someone else. So it would look

> something like this based on 50mgs.

>

> 50mgs taken 12pm

> 25mgs left in system at 4 hours

> 12.5mgs at 8 hours

> 6.25mgs at 12 hours

> 3.125mgs at 16 hours

> 1.5625mg at 20 hours

> 0 by 24 hours

>

> It is out of the system at 24 hours which is why the medication is taken

> daily. It has an onset time of 5mins to 1 hour. The link you provided is

> talking about IV naltraxone, and the only thing it states about the oral

> medication is the " long duration of action " is referring to the

> medication has an onset time of 5 mins to 1 hr but yet stays in the

> system for 24 due to the metabolite 6-beta naltrexol.

> I just hope this helps anyone who is confused. Thx:)

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Of course, everyone is a little different in the time it takes our liver to break down naltrexone. My experience, using a tabacco pipe, it is

approximately twelve hours later, afore I can get a good jolt from that pipe. Using the pipe during the first twelve hours is not satisfying.

start at ten PM, at 2 AM I am down to 2.2mg, 6 AM I am at 1.1mg, and ten AM, I am .05mg. Yeow, am glad to know I am somewhat normal.

I read that naltrexone is sometimes used to bring someone down from herion quickly, ie overdose that is. The naltrexone within a short time covers the opiate receptors, therefore stopping its affect. That makes me think, naltrexone cud be used to sober someone rather quickly from pretty much any drug/alcohol. However it wud not help pass a breathalizer or uninalisis, yucks.

LDN has improved my quality of life, an so I want to no all, it will take something horrible afore I stop. But the first month or two starting out, was a bit strange, different, nothing occured that make me wish to give it up, but I did often wonder if I was doing the rite thing. Happy camper now that my body is most likely more normal. I believe that....

Let me tell you the ways, nope, too many to mention an I need to go.

kind regards david

[low dose naltrexone] Re: Day 9 after stopping LDN...weird exercise phenomenon

Hi, I know I'm new here and I find all of this information grateful. Based on my drug guides Oral naltrexone only has a 4hr half life not 10. The IM (intramuscular injection) has a half life of 5-10 days (which is why it is taken only once every 4 weeks). I'm not meaning to step on anyone's toes here, but want to make sure you have correct information since it was said they heard it from someone else. So it would look something like this based on 50mgs.50mgs taken 12pm25mgs left in system at 4 hours12.5mgs at 8 hours6.25mgs at 12 hours3.125mgs at 16 hours1.5625mg at 20 hours0 by 24 hoursIt is out of the system at 24 hours which is why the medication is taken daily. It has an onset time of 5mins to 1 hour. The link you provided is talking about IV naltraxone, and the only thing it states about the oral medication is the "long duration of action" is referring to the medication has an onset time of 5 mins to 1 hr but yet stays in the system for 24 due to the metabolite 6-beta naltrexol.I just hope this helps anyone who is confused. Thx:)> > >> > > now this analysis was done on 50 MG, so how does this breakdown with 3 or> > 4.5 MG? is it 89 and 84% lower? and compared to 100 and 150 MG dosing?> > > > > > everyone's now a rocket scientist?> >>

[Guest guest]

read what Garnet recently posted and you'll see it isn't just about the

liver breaking down the naltrexone... there's probably other things going on

that can be individually variable.

don't know what you're putting in the pipe, but might it account for the

error you made about naltrexone being used to deal with heroin OD? from

wikipedia:

" Naloxone is a drug used to counter the effects of opioid overdose, for

example heroin or morphine overdose. Naloxone is specifically used to

counteract life-threatening depression of the central nervous system and

respiratory system. Naloxone is also experimentally used in the treatment

for CIPA; an extremely rare disorder (1 in 125 million) that renders one

unable to feel pain. It is marketed under various trademarks including

Narcan, Nalone, and Narcanti, and has sometimes been mistakenly called

" naltrexate. " It is not to be confused with Naltrexone, another opioid

receptor antagonist with qualitatively different effects, used for

dependence treatment rather than emergency overdose treatment. "

________________________________

From: low dose naltrexone

[mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of appreciative dAVId

Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:04 PM

low dose naltrexone ; sbtrfly74

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Day 9 after stopping

LDN...weird exercise phenomenon

Of course, everyone is a little different in the time it takes our

liver to break down naltrexone. My experience, using a tabacco pipe, it is

approximately twelve hours later, afore I can get a good jolt from

that pipe. Using the pipe during the first twelve hours is not satisfying.

start at ten PM, at 2 AM I am down to 2.2mg, 6 AM I am at 1.1mg, and

ten AM, I am .05mg. Yeow, am glad to know I am somewhat normal.

I read that naltrexone is sometimes used to bring someone down from

herion quickly, ie overdose that is. The naltrexone within a short time

covers the opiate receptors, therefore stopping its affect. That makes me

think, naltrexone cud be used to sober someone rather quickly from pretty

much any drug/alcohol. However it wud not help pass a breathalizer or

uninalisis, yucks.

LDN has improved my quality of life, an so I want to no all, it will

take something horrible afore I stop. But the first month or two starting

out, was a bit strange, different, nothing occured that make me wish to give

it up, but I did often wonder if I was doing the rite thing. Happy camper

now that my body is most likely more normal. I believe that....

Let me tell you the ways, nope, too many to mention an I need to go.

kind regards david

[Guest guest]

Naloxone is used more often than Naltrexone in over dose

because it acts more

rapidly. But Naltrexone is also used in some instances and

is used in " rapid " detox

from heroin and morphine done under anesthesia.

Garnet

bob Larson wrote:

>

>

> read what Garnet recently posted and you'll see it isn't just about the

> liver breaking down the naltrexone... there's probably other things going on

> that can be individually variable.

>

> don't know what you're putting in the pipe, but might it account for the

> error you made about naltrexone being used to deal with heroin OD? from

> wikipedia:

>

> " Naloxone is a drug used to counter the effects of opioid overdose, for

> example heroin or morphine overdose. Naloxone is specifically used to

> counteract life-threatening depression of the central nervous system and

> respiratory system. Naloxone is also experimentally used in the treatment

> for CIPA; an extremely rare disorder (1 in 125 million) that renders one

> unable to feel pain. It is marketed under various trademarks including

> Narcan, Nalone, and Narcanti, and has sometimes been mistakenly called

> " naltrexate. " It is not to be confused with Naltrexone, another opioid

> receptor antagonist with qualitatively different effects, used for

> dependence treatment rather than emergency overdose treatment. "

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: low dose naltrexone

> <mailto:low dose naltrexone%40>

> [mailto:low dose naltrexone

> <mailto:low dose naltrexone%40>] On Behalf Of appreciative

> dAVId

> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:04 PM

> low dose naltrexone

> <mailto:low dose naltrexone%40>; sbtrfly74

> Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Day 9 after stopping

> LDN...weird exercise phenomenon

>

>

>

> Of course, everyone is a little different in the time it takes our

> liver to break down naltrexone. My experience, using a tabacco pipe, it is

> approximately twelve hours later, afore I can get a good jolt from

> that pipe. Using the pipe during the first twelve hours is not satisfying.

> start at ten PM, at 2 AM I am down to 2.2mg, 6 AM I am at 1.1mg, and

> ten AM, I am .05mg. Yeow, am glad to know I am somewhat normal.

> I read that naltrexone is sometimes used to bring someone down from

> herion quickly, ie overdose that is. The naltrexone within a short time

> covers the opiate receptors, therefore stopping its affect. That makes me

> think, naltrexone cud be used to sober someone rather quickly from pretty

> much any drug/alcohol. However it wud not help pass a breathalizer or

> uninalisis, yucks.

> LDN has improved my quality of life, an so I want to no all, it will

> take something horrible afore I stop. But the first month or two starting

> out, was a bit strange, different, nothing occured that make me wish to give

> it up, but I did often wonder if I was doing the rite thing. Happy camper

> now that my body is most likely more normal. I believe that....

> Let me tell you the ways, nope, too many to mention an I need to go.

>

> kind regards david

>

>

>