Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Hi kathy R., Sorry to hear about your not-so-fun trip to Disneyland. We should've coordinated plans as we were there two weekends ago to celebrate Kelsey's 8th birthday. Maybe we could've helped somehow. So, OCD says Kel can't have any fun, huh? I think she should be outraged about this latest demand. ( " Doesn't this make you really mad, Kel? We certainly can't let OCD have his way on this one. Just think! You'd have to give up birthday parties, swimming this summer, etc. etc. " ) Why don't you make a mini-hierarchy here to develop a plan for " bossing back. " What's a little bit fun (laughing at a funny movie?), what's really fun (Disneyland?) You can explain that you can see why she had so much trouble on your trip--it was way up on the hierarchy and you need to start smaller. made an excellent point about being sure to point out at every opportunity when she's having fun and that nothing bad happenned to you. ( " See how OCD is tricking you? You just did X and me and daddy are fine. But OCD doesn't know how smart you are. You're on to his tricks now! " ) Keep us posted, Kathy. Tell Kellen that Kelsey and I are rooting for her! Take care, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 Thanks for the link to NYC. I have been looking for documents similar to this. If anybody knows of similar guidance documents I would appreciate the links. You may post them here, or send them to my office e-mail. Lawrence Klawrence@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 I think that Cathryn makes the point...we want to sell wonderful products that are also safe...by nature's design, most of us crafters are NOT chemists...but does emulsion come to anyone's mind? Oil and water can mix *smile* I tell folks buying my products to respect them, and read the labels that i put on them....that way, they get my full measure of care:-) PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 My main point is that you have to be careful with chemists. I don't believe a good proportion of them *try* to be natural unless they think it will make them money. That is a MUCH different perspective than trying to stay close to nature because you WANT to. I'm not going to debate *natural* with you. I think I was clear enough. Of course, I am as concerned as anyone with being *safe*. My point is that we need to look at the big picture; unfortunately today many doctors, chemists, scientists are often not coming from the same perspective as I am and many of us are. I look for the ones that have the education but also have a broad, fresh mind set and try to honor nature. I am very concerned with taking the necessary precautions but at the same time taking the precautions that will protect my health, others' health, and the health of our environment. Take care. Cathryn. p.s. I don't have anything against Burt's Bees - I like many of their products. I don't think they are trying to be deceptive however you do. And I can't speak for them. ---------- >From: egroups >egroups >Subject: Digest Number 473 >Date: Tue, Nov 7, 2000, 6:26 AM > > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:59:16 -0600 > From: " Pat McDonnell " <achil@...> > Subject: Re: preservatives in lip balm > > From: " Cathryn Swan " <cathrynbe@...> >> I'm saying we should do the best thing for the product and the consumer >> while keeping in mind that if our goal is to stay close to *natural* (NOT >> meaning bacteria) and my school of thought is that we should try IF WE CAN >> then we need to be educated about these matters. > > It is not real clear what you are trying to say above. Who defines > *natural*? There is no official definition of what is natural and there is > little agreement between people what is natural. If it comes from the earth > is that not natural? There is very little that we use that has not been > refined to some degree. At what point does it become unnatural? To be > educated a person needs to have an open mind. It is not that long ago that > healers were burned at the stake because people claimed they were witches, > and it is not that long ago that people thought the world was flat and you > could fall off the edge. > > Those old school chemists >> don't think anything is *wrong* with their chemicals so why should they > try >> to avoid them?? (There are so many unnecessary toxins in our society that >> chemists unleash and don't think anything is wrong with them. So it's >> unfortunate that that is a big part of the mentality.) I am not a chemist >> so I can't speak for them I just know I have heard thoughts from both > sides. > > Have you ever heard that it is better to be safe than to be sorry? If you > were to speak with a cosmetic chemist I think that you would find that they > are under pressure to put out products that are as close to natural as they > can get, without putting people at risk. There are two types of cosmetic > chemists; those that work for a cosmetic company and those that are self > employed and sell their services to both large and smaller companies. In > either case their careers and reputations are on the line for every product > that they formulate. All it would take is one successful lawsuit and they > could lose their career and be blackballed from the industry. To protect > themselves they have to make sure that the products they formulate are safe. > >> The " other " chemists with more of a natural or closer to nature >> orientation(again, " nature " not meaning bacteria...) can explain it to you >> better than I can. > > Who are those " other " chemists? Are they cosmetic chemists or are they self > proclaimed cosmetic chemists? > > But the question about products without water even some >> of the cosmetic chemists will say you DON'T need a preservative - it > depends >> who you ask. > > This is true, but the law says that if you have a reasonable expectation > that water will be introduced that could cause a problem, then you must take > steps to prevent this (the Problem). Some chemists are more careful than > others, it is not a big deal. The question is " how careful do you want to > be " and the answer will probably be determined by how much you have to lose > if you were to get sued. > > (Many essential oils have antibacterial properties, etc.) > > There is no essential oil that has enough antibacterial properties to > effectively preserve a cosmetic. > >> Burt's Bees is a good example - I'd be curious to hear their stance on > this. > > They don't follow the law, so why would you want to hear their stance? > > Pat. > Peace, Joy, Serenity. > www.houseofscents.com > Cosmeticinfo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 > My main point is that you have to be careful with chemists. I don't believe > a good proportion of them *try* to be natural unless they think it will make > them money. Good heavens, I couldn't disagree more...every chemist that I know is searching for the holy grail of preservatives (for example) - something non-irritating, naturally sourced, non-formaldehyde donating, etc. etc... But just because they're not willing to sacrifice quality or efficacy for some nebulous 'natural' concept doesn't mean that they're inherently nasty... And since when does the desire to be profitable mean that the motives are automatically underhanded? They should sell at a loss? Virtually every manufacturer of raw ingredients for cosmetics is doing research right now to try to find that reliable effective naturally sourced preservative that is perfect in all applications...sure they're doing it because it'll sell. Virtually every manufacturer of finished cosmetics is testing some natural preservation system - because it'll sell. I make lavender soap, which is brutal on my skin, because it'll sell. I can't stand the stuff and it causes me physical discomfort. I don't think that makes me somehow underhanded because I make a product that will sell... Sorry, I guess I don't understand the mentality that says profitability as a deciding factor in undertaking a project is somehow a bad thing...provided it results in a safe, effective product at the end of the day. But, I can think of one very well known supplier who is cashing in on the " natural " craze with dishonest information and potentially causing harm to the consumers of their customers' products, but hey, they've got that " try to do it naturally " , " broad- and openminded " mindset that you're looking for... I'll take my chances with the evil corporate body known as ISP/Sutton *g*. Jules in Vancouver who is getting tired of this...and wants to go for a horsey ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2000 Report Share Posted November 8, 2000 > My main point is that you have to be careful with chemists. I don't believe > a good proportion of them *try* to be natural unless they think it will make > them money. For the record very, very few chemists make and sell their own products. I'd estimate that 99+% of all cosmetic chemists work for someone else. All personal care companies that I am aware of are market driven. There have been " lab or technology " driven personal care companies, like Redken Laboratories in the 60's and early 70's, but soon it became a marketing driven company. I am not aware of any personal care company that is driven by technology. The marketing departments do market research to determine what the consumer/marketplace wants and or needs. This information is passed on " the lab " in the form of a product profile. It's the job of the cosmetic chemist to give the marketing idea or concept form and function based on marketing direction. > That is a MUCH different perspective than trying to stay close > to nature because you WANT to. I'm not going to debate *natural* with you. In personal care products, the term " natural' " is undefined and open to much discussion and debate. You are wise not to get into a debate in which there is no answer. But a word of caution, there are many natural ingredients that good for you and there are many that are bad for you. The same can be said of purely synthetic materials. > I think I was clear enough. Of course, I am as concerned as anyone with > being *safe*. My point is that we need to look at the big picture; > unfortunately today many doctors, chemists, scientists are often not coming > from the same perspective as I am and many of us are. That is a broad and all encompassing and totally unsubstantiated statement being expressed as fact. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent annually investigating new " natural " ingredients to be used in drugs and potentially in personal care products. > I look for the ones > that have the education but also have a broad, fresh mind set and try to > honor nature. I am very concerned with taking the necessary precautions > but at the same time taking the precautions that will protect my health, > others' health, and the health of our environment. This is a noble concern that you share with all the cosmetic chemists that I've met in over 30 years of formulating cosmetic products. Lucy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2000 Report Share Posted November 8, 2000 > My main point is that you have to be careful with chemists. I don't believe > a good proportion of them *try* to be natural unless they think it will make > them money. For the record very, very few chemists make and sell their own products. I'd estimate that 99+% of all cosmetic chemists work for someone else. All personal care companies that I am aware of are market driven. There have been " lab or technology " driven personal care companies, like Redken Laboratories in the 60's and early 70's, but soon it became a marketing driven company. I am not aware of any personal care company that is driven by technology. The marketing departments do market research to determine what the consumer/marketplace wants and or needs. This information is passed on " the lab " in the form of a product profile. It's the job of the cosmetic chemist to give the marketing idea or concept form and function based on marketing direction. > That is a MUCH different perspective than trying to stay close > to nature because you WANT to. I'm not going to debate *natural* with you. In personal care products, the term " natural' " is undefined and open to much discussion and debate. You are wise not to get into a debate in which there is no answer. But a word of caution, there are many natural ingredients that good for you and there are many that are bad for you. The same can be said of purely synthetic materials. > I think I was clear enough. Of course, I am as concerned as anyone with > being *safe*. My point is that we need to look at the big picture; > unfortunately today many doctors, chemists, scientists are often not coming > from the same perspective as I am and many of us are. That is a broad and all encompassing and totally unsubstantiated statement being expressed as fact. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent annually investigating new " natural " ingredients to be used in drugs and potentially in personal care products. > I look for the ones > that have the education but also have a broad, fresh mind set and try to > honor nature. I am very concerned with taking the necessary precautions > but at the same time taking the precautions that will protect my health, > others' health, and the health of our environment. This is a noble concern that you share with all the cosmetic chemists that I've met in over 30 years of formulating cosmetic products. Lucy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 Please unsubscribe me. Thank you! Avery83@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2002 Report Share Posted August 9, 2002 Dear Terry, or anyone, Terry mentions that taking neurontin, oxycontin etc. can cause urinary problems. Are you implying that your tumor was caused by the drugs that you take? I have taken neurontin, am considering oxy, and would appreciate any known side effects. I'm currently not taking neurontin, but am interested in any problems people have had with taking the oxycontin. What dosage did you take, and what problems did you encounter? I am to the point that I need something that will last 12 hours and that is why I am considering the oxy. Thanks, Bonnie K. At 12:51 AM 8/8/02 +0000, you wrote: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2002 Report Share Posted August 11, 2002 To Bonnie K - Some medications are called anti-cholinergics. They can be medications that do all sorts of good things, but the side effect is that they cause us to have difficulty urinating; the is the antii-cholinergic effect. I think that is what has been discussed recently with regard to the gyn problem one of our group had. There are better people than I to discuss the relationship gynecologically, but I saw your note and wanted to tell you about the side effect of some pain medications. Hope this helps! Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 you may want to inquire about a bone stimulator.. it worked great when my husband had his ACDF.. " I came to a place where a Path split up till two. I choose the One I didn't know and enriched my Life " ~The Tao of Pooh~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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