Artemisinin + basic protocol: dangerous reaction

[Guest guest]

I took artemisinin and was a fan of it. Took the low doses Buhner

recommends, then decided to try Dr. K. high doses. Low doses could be

tolerable together with Buhnner's basic protocol.

Artemisinin healed my arthritic pains. I'm sure about that, as it was

the only thing I added to the protocol, and clearly herxed with it

(arthritic pain got intense after intake, then decreased after).

Until it disappeared for good.

High doses artemisinin though (900-1200mg, in my case) were

intolerable when added to 6 andrographis, 6 sarsaparilla, 6 cats

claw, 3 resveratrol. I started developing light air hunger that

turned into strong air hunger, ended up in emergency. I suppose these

were toxins, either from herbs (artemisinin and andro, I suppose) or

with the massive die off.

If I were to try high doses again, I would do without lyme killers,

maybe keep sarsaparilla, knotweed, but not add andrographis/ cats

claw. And add chlorella (loads) and other cleansers (red root, milk

thistle, etc).

I'm not allergic to any of these herbs, as I can take them

separately, so it was not an allergic reaction.

Since this frightful reaction, I never took high doses artemisinin,

only keep taking artemisia annua. Buhner wrote me once saying he

recommends low doses, to be on the safer side, same what his book

recommends.

I remember reading that many people can have heavy headaches with

artemisinin high doses with tdie off.

So if you're not used to it, just start slow.

Another 'tip'. I thought the story of grapefruit juice was already

old story. I took artemisinin with and without grapefruit juice,

can't tell if I felt the difference...

But my naturopath just advised me to take WITH it. I mean, I'm not

taking artemisinin now, I'm taking artemisia annua whole plant, WITH

grapefruit juice. She's the right hand of Dr. K. here in Europe, so

for the ones who believe his treatment, try to take it with

grapefruit juice (even if some say it may decrease its effect).

Selma

[Guest guest]

Selma,

What is 'air hunger'?

thanks,

ellen

>

> I took artemisinin and was a fan of it. Took the low doses Buhner

> recommends, then decided to try Dr. K. high doses. Low doses could

be

> tolerable together with Buhnner's basic protocol.

>

> Artemisinin healed my arthritic pains. I'm sure about that, as it

was

> the only thing I added to the protocol, and clearly herxed with it

> (arthritic pain got intense after intake, then decreased after).

> Until it disappeared for good.

>

> High doses artemisinin though (900-1200mg, in my case) were

> intolerable when added to 6 andrographis, 6 sarsaparilla, 6 cats

> claw, 3 resveratrol. I started developing light air hunger that

> turned into strong air hunger, ended up in emergency. I suppose

these

> were toxins, either from herbs (artemisinin and andro, I suppose)

or

> with the massive die off.

>

> If I were to try high doses again, I would do without lyme

killers,

> maybe keep sarsaparilla, knotweed, but not add andrographis/ cats

> claw. And add chlorella (loads) and other cleansers (red root,

milk

> thistle, etc).

>

> I'm not allergic to any of these herbs, as I can take them

> separately, so it was not an allergic reaction.

>

> Since this frightful reaction, I never took high doses

artemisinin,

> only keep taking artemisia annua. Buhner wrote me once saying he

> recommends low doses, to be on the safer side, same what his book

> recommends.

>

> I remember reading that many people can have heavy headaches with

> artemisinin high doses with tdie off.

>

> So if you're not used to it, just start slow.

>

> Another 'tip'. I thought the story of grapefruit juice was already

> old story. I took artemisinin with and without grapefruit juice,

> can't tell if I felt the difference...

>

> But my naturopath just advised me to take WITH it. I mean, I'm not

> taking artemisinin now, I'm taking artemisia annua whole plant,

WITH

> grapefruit juice. She's the right hand of Dr. K. here in Europe,

so

> for the ones who believe his treatment, try to take it with

> grapefruit juice (even if some say it may decrease its effect).

>

>

> Selma

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not Selma, but air hunger is when you are conscious of the need to breathe.

It can be mild, where you try to get a deep breath, but you just don't seem to

be able to breathe deeply enough to be satisfied. Or it can progress to very

severe, where you are gasping for every breath. I have read that it is the

result of too much carbon dioxide in the blood.

It is a babesia symptom. I have it very mildly, which is why I bought the

artemisinin. But I've been nervous about taking it. I'm doing the core

protocol - due to increase the dosage tomorrow to 3 capsules 3 times daily

(andrographis, cat's claw, smilex and resveratrol). My babs tests were

negative, but with the sweats and air hunger... I just don't know. Maybe I

should be doing artemisinin now and waiting on the core protocol.

Lots of stuff to ask the LLMD on Wednesday.

D.

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[Guest guest]

I was negative on Babs as well but have classical Babs symptoms. The

director of IgeneX told me the test is only 90% accurate and doesn't

test for all strains. Like Lyme, if you have most of the clinical

symptoms, I would treat. I don't see any harm in doing so. Artemisinin

has helped with the night sweats, but when I stop they return. I'm now

going to do a longer protocol of 60 days.

Ballady

>

> I'm not Selma, but air hunger is when you are conscious of the need

to breathe. It can be mild, where you try to get a deep breath, but

you just don't seem to be able to breathe deeply enough to be

satisfied. Or it can progress to very severe, where you are gasping

for every breath. I have read that it is the result of too much

carbon dioxide in the blood.

>

> It is a babesia symptom. I have it very mildly, which is why I

bought the artemisinin. But I've been nervous about taking it. I'm

doing the core protocol - due to increase the dosage tomorrow to 3

capsules 3 times daily (andrographis, cat's claw, smilex and

resveratrol). My babs tests were negative, but with the sweats and

air hunger... I just don't know. Maybe I should be doing artemisinin

now and waiting on the core protocol.

>

> Lots of stuff to ask the LLMD on Wednesday.

>

> D.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think described what I had well, thanks!

It feels like you're breathing inside a plastic bag. The more you

breathe, the more you feel you still need to breathe! Best is to try

to breathe as slowly as possible when you feel the crisis coming, but

it's not always possible.

If babesia is the cause, I heard salt pipes are of no use. If it is

asthma, they seem to help.

Sometimes, my strong air hunger crisis came after feeling my legs

were so heavy I could barely move them. Then, the slightest effort

would cause the breathing crisis. But other times, it came without

relation to physical effort, after taking the combo high dose

artemisinin + Buhner's herbs or taking high doses chlorella (about

100 pellets).

I'm sure this is one of the causes for me, because I took a few

rounds of high doses artemisinin, and the breathing problem ramped up

with the days (day 1 next to nothing, day 2 mild to strong, day 3

emergency!!) and disappeared after a few days without the combo. It

could be that when we take babesia killers, symptoms of babesia

appear. I read that it happens with people taking Mepron or other

babesia killers.

I don't have it strong anymore since March. I just realized now that

I have been having constant light air hunger for the last couple of

months, but it just vanished suddenly yesterday after I applied a mix

of essential oils to certain accupressure points and on my chest

(front and back). (???)

I rubbed so much of the mix, that my liver got in trouble. Besides, I

had stopped milk thistle yesterday too, bad idea. I'm back to it

today.

I'm not sure this symptom is vanishing for good, I hope so, it's one

of my last lyme/ babesia symptoms left. If it vanishes with these

essential oils, I'll let you know.

, just be careful with art + lyme killers altogether. I could

tolerate well low doses art + lyme killers (low doses), but high

doses art + lyme killers were much too much!

Selma

>

> I'm not Selma, but air hunger is when you are conscious of the need

to breathe. It can be mild, where you try to get a deep breath, but

you just don't seem to be able to breathe deeply enough to be

satisfied. Or it can progress to very severe, where you are gasping

for every breath. I have read that it is the result of too much

carbon dioxide in the blood.

>

> It is a babesia symptom. I have it very mildly, which is why I

bought the artemisinin. But I've been nervous about taking it. I'm

doing the core protocol - due to increase the dosage tomorrow to 3

capsules 3 times daily (andrographis, cat's claw, smilex and

resveratrol). My babs tests were negative, but with the sweats and

air hunger... I just don't know. Maybe I should be doing artemisinin

now and waiting on the core protocol.

>

> Lots of stuff to ask the LLMD on Wednesday.

>

> D.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the warning, Selma,

I don't plan to take artemisinin unless my LLMD OKs it. I expect I'd need to

quit the abx while I try it?

I dunno. Right now I'm on 3 grams of amoxicillin (1500 mg twice daily),

Buhner's core protocol (andrographis, smilex, cat's claw and resveratrol) 3 X a

day, and a humungous pile of vitamins and minerals. Plus 100 ozs of water daily

with 10,000 mg of vitamin C mixed into it, and theralac... Am I leaving

anything out?

I'm scared to add anything else.

D.

selmanaka <hardynaka@...> wrote: I think

described what I had well, thanks!

It feels like you're breathing inside a plastic bag. The more you

breathe, the more you feel you still need to breathe! Best is to try

to breathe as slowly as possible when you feel the crisis coming, but

it's not always possible.

If babesia is the cause, I heard salt pipes are of no use. If it is

asthma, they seem to help.

Sometimes, my strong air hunger crisis came after feeling my legs

were so heavy I could barely move them. Then, the slightest effort

would cause the breathing crisis. But other times, it came without

relation to physical effort, after taking the combo high dose

artemisinin + Buhner's herbs or taking high doses chlorella (about

100 pellets).

I'm sure this is one of the causes for me, because I took a few

rounds of high doses artemisinin, and the breathing problem ramped up

with the days (day 1 next to nothing, day 2 mild to strong, day 3

emergency!!) and disappeared after a few days without the combo. It

could be that when we take babesia killers, symptoms of babesia

appear. I read that it happens with people taking Mepron or other

babesia killers.

I don't have it strong anymore since March. I just realized now that

I have been having constant light air hunger for the last couple of

months, but it just vanished suddenly yesterday after I applied a mix

of essential oils to certain accupressure points and on my chest

(front and back). (???)

I rubbed so much of the mix, that my liver got in trouble. Besides, I

had stopped milk thistle yesterday too, bad idea. I'm back to it

today.

I'm not sure this symptom is vanishing for good, I hope so, it's one

of my last lyme/ babesia symptoms left. If it vanishes with these

essential oils, I'll let you know.

, just be careful with art + lyme killers altogether. I could

tolerate well low doses art + lyme killers (low doses), but high

doses art + lyme killers were much too much!

Selma

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[Guest guest]

, that's a lot of killers! Does your LLMD agree on this abx +

buhners' herbs? I would certainly not add high doses artemisinin to

the combo, my body would never tolerate so much toxin build up.

I feel that you're missing on detox herbs, just my own opinion. Like

red root, milk thistle, nettle, chlorella, stuff like that that

prevents toxin build up. Just my own experience! Vit C never did much

for me, maybe because I could never reach high doses due to low bowel

tolerance.

Good luck!

Selma

>

> Thank you for the warning, Selma,

>

> I don't plan to take artemisinin unless my LLMD OKs it. I expect

I'd need to quit the abx while I try it?

>

> I dunno. Right now I'm on 3 grams of amoxicillin (1500 mg twice

daily), Buhner's core protocol (andrographis, smilex, cat's claw and

resveratrol) 3 X a day, and a humungous pile of vitamins and

minerals. Plus 100 ozs of water daily with 10,000 mg of vitamin C

mixed into it, and theralac... Am I leaving anything out?

>

> I'm scared to add anything else.

>

> D.

>

[Guest guest]

You're scaring me, Selma.

I'll be talking to my LLMD about it on Wednesday, and I see my PCP on Thursday.

I started the Buhner protocol on my own. I have an annoying tendency to do that

- my first round of doxy was left over from treating my horse's ulcers. My PCP

was very gracious about that.

My only problem so far has been occasional mild nausea each time I increase the

herbs. But it settles down quickly with a handful of sunflower seeds (which I

have learned to carry with me). I feel really good over all - more normal than

I've felt in years. Today I got soooooooo much done - housework, laundry,

cleaned two saddles to sell, even managed to put together *5* health insurance

claims. Usually I can't face anything that complicated, but it's done, and my

brain only hurts a little. It would be kewl if they actually decided to

reimburse for some of it.

I am taking Milk Thistle and Nettle - forgot to mention those - but just one

capsule of each 3 times daily. And the Sarsparilla is supposed to do a good job

of binding endotoxins. So, I'm not entirely comfortable with the whole thing,

but not overly scared - just a tad concerned. Buhner said the core protocol was

OK with antibiotics. Hope he's right.

Just three more days 'til my LLMD gets to roll his eyes at me. Think I'll email

him first so he has warning.

D.

selmanaka <hardynaka@...> wrote: ,

that's a lot of killers! Does your LLMD agree on this abx +

buhners' herbs? I would certainly not add high doses artemisinin to

the combo, my body would never tolerate so much toxin build up.

I feel that you're missing on detox herbs, just my own opinion. Like

red root, milk thistle, nettle, chlorella, stuff like that that

prevents toxin build up. Just my own experience! Vit C never did much

for me, maybe because I could never reach high doses due to low bowel

tolerance.

Good luck!

Selma

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[Guest guest]

Sorry , didn't mean to scare you!!

You ARE taking then a few cleansing herbs, you just didn't mention!!

And if you feel not too bad, that's the main thing, I suppose. I just

can't stand too much killing, I react even with water or with a

mineral pill.

I feel Buhner wrote thinking about the majority of us. He really

looks careful about recommending the herbs/ amounts. But I do feel

I'm too sensitive for his whole procotol. I may be an exception

though, and you more on the 'rule'!!

I also do most things by myself. I use the help of doctors, of

course, specially for new things (like metal detox stuff). But things

that I start to be familiar, I'm also 'do it myself' type. Abx

included.

Many doctors, even good ones, know nothing about andrographis and

Chinese herbs. Buhner's book is too young yet, and we are

somehow 'pioneering' on this protocol.

Glad to hear you feel better! I know exactly what you say, when you

start feeling you can do things around! I came back to " life " in

April this year, mostly thanks to Buhner's herbs but also the KMT

machine. No more brain fog, only occasional bouts of fatigue,

specially after metal detox. I can do garden work and take care of my

little one, that's been bitten by 3 ticks this summer!

I'm starting to give her andrographis since yesterday. All by myself.

I start to feel PC-Samento and PC-Noni can't do as well as

andrographis, at least against borrelia. Amoxy for her, never more as

preventive!!

Good luck with your doctor. And have a good day too!

Selma

>

> You're scaring me, Selma.

>

> I'll be talking to my LLMD about it on Wednesday, and I see my PCP

on Thursday. I started the Buhner protocol on my own. I have an

annoying tendency to do that - my first round of doxy was left over

from treating my horse's ulcers. My PCP was very gracious about that.

>

> My only problem so far has been occasional mild nausea each time I

increase the herbs. But it settles down quickly with a handful of

sunflower seeds (which I have learned to carry with me). I feel

really good over all - more normal than I've felt in years. Today I

got soooooooo much done - housework, laundry, cleaned two saddles to

sell, even managed to put together *5* health insurance claims.

Usually I can't face anything that complicated, but it's done, and my

brain only hurts a little. It would be kewl if they actually

decided to reimburse for some of it.

>

> I am taking Milk Thistle and Nettle - forgot to mention those - but

just one capsule of each 3 times daily. And the Sarsparilla is

supposed to do a good job of binding endotoxins. So, I'm not

entirely comfortable with the whole thing, but not overly scared -

just a tad concerned. Buhner said the core protocol was OK with

antibiotics. Hope he's right.

>

> Just three more days 'til my LLMD gets to roll his eyes at me.

Think I'll email him first so he has warning.

>

> D.

>

>