Re: Update, Disappointing visit at Infectious Disease doctor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/99 2:50:31 AM EST, mlmccoy@... writes:

<< I have signed up for that Class action suit

against Aetna, for having such strict guidelines and refusing me IV >>

Hi Marta,

How can you sign up for that class action suit against Aetna? My cousin has

Aetna and needs IV treatment very badly and Aetna refused to pay . She is

seriously thinking of hiring an attorney, andI am sure she would want to sign

that class action suit against them also . Please let me know .

Thank You

[Guest guest]

Thanks Francea,

What a sweet and funny letter, no his thing was not hanging out, gee,

kind of wish it was, I could have screamed and reported him! LOL!

Believe me, the only thing that gets me through this is knowing I am not

the only one who is disbelieved and abused by dumb doctors. I know we have

all been through this at one time or another.

The strange thing is this guy's flip flop comments. In a letter to my

doctor regarding another Lyme patient he had seen, he writes: " Antibody

tests particularly the WB studies are generally helpful when positive but

would not necessarily exclude the diagnosis when negative. Virtually all

serological tests tend to be beset by problems with both sensitivity and

specificity. "

Yet, he told me the exact opposite. I can only conclude that he has

started working for Cigna (he said recent) and realizes the real money is in

insurance claim reviews. I could not question his reversal, as I did not

want to get my doctor in trouble for sharing his letter.

Yes, I will warn others about this guy, he is Dr. Stumacher, and

he has an Infectious disease practice at Graduate Hospital in Philadelphia.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: SEAFRAN731@...

>

>>>

>Poor Marta!!!!

>I am so upset for you!!!! I have met a few like that moron during

>the past 6 1/2 years of this lyme life of hell.

>PLEASE.....try (tho it may be hard) to just think of it as a learning

>experience......you now know what a jerk that doctor is.....what a

>two-faced, egotistical, insurance company butt kissing, disgrace to

>the medical profession, Steere/Sigal fan club member, dick hanging out

IDIOT

>this doctor is...(hmmm maybe he was twiddling

>before he went in to see you????? LOL) Sorry I am being so sick

>and perverted, God forgive me!! MY blood pressure is boiling!!!!but......

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/99 7:30:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

BearyPrety@... writes:

<< My cousin has

Aetna and needs IV treatment very badly and Aetna refused to pay >>

Why? AUHSC paid for 12 weeks iv Zith for my husband and I...B

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dabs,

I doubt I can sue him for having his own opinion about the treatment of

sero-negative Lyme disease. I have signed up for that Class action suit

against Aetna, for having such strict guidelines and refusing me IV

treatment. Don't know what is happening with that though.

You know, good idea, maybe I should look into the free IV thing. I will

ask my doctor next appt. Why don't I think of these things???? LOL! I

really appreciate all of you on this list who understand what a

disappointment it is, when you get your hopes up for a doctor and he does a

total about face. He did keep saying to me that he knew I was very sick,

only thing is he thinks it is CFIDS and he said the good news is it only has

a four year duration and should clear up on it's own in one year! Anyone

ever heard of that crap???

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: Dabret22@...

>

>Marta,

>I have been outraged since I read your post and can't stop thinking about

it.

>I think we all care so much for you that we are taking this

personally.....I

>know I am . that SOB

>Ditto on everything Fransea said and more. I am just sick over this.

>Although a hassle, perhaps suing your insur. co is a thought..

>IF you have any previous positive tests you have grounds

>These bastards are refusing to treat you, what are you supposed to do, DIE

>and then send him a report on your spirochete filled autopsy??

>Is LLMD willing to give you IV if insur would pay??? If so, threaten a big

>suit or join a class action one or START a class action one.

>

>What about the free drug thing?? I am just so frustrated

>Please know we are all thinking of you.........xoxo Dabs

>

[Guest guest]

Good idea Connie,

Next time I have an appointment with a questionable doctor I think I

will take some live ones and scatter them around. Wonder if that would be a

serious criminal offense, after all the tick can be considered a deadly

weapon! LOL!

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: Cslyme@...

>

>Oh Marta,

>What a jerk, give me his address I will send him a barrel of ticks, we have

>lots here.

>Hugs,

>Connie, MI

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/99 3:00:47 AM EST, mlmccoy@... writes:

<< The only

problem with him is that he wanted to do a spinal tap, and I just cannot see

the point. >>

Hi Marta....

I would never do the spinal again ,and had I known before hand that there was

a chance that it could " leak " ( which it DID in my case) and cause such

excrutiating pain.. I mean the kind of pain that is soooo bad that it could

actually freak you out.. literally ..(.I remember being in the hospital.. I

had the window side... They did the spinal in my hosp.room, right over my

bed) pain from the spinal leak was so bad that I'll tell you if it took the

nurse one more second to shoot me up with IV pain meds .. I swear I WOULD

have found a way to jump out of the window. It made childbirth seem like a

piece of cake. They made me stay with that pain for 2 days until they decided

to do an Mri to confirm a leak in my spine from the spinal tap.. it was

confirmed and then they had to do a Spinal " Cap " to close the leak.. That was

also done in my hospital bed with everyone walking in and out.. didn't matter

to them that I was sick as a dog from the spinal tap and my behind was

sticking out as everyone was walking all around.Anyway , they had to take

blood from my arm, remove some spinal fluid from my spine ( the pressure

pain was awful) and then go back into my spine with the spinal fluid that

they took out ,and the blood from my arm to close the " Leak " . It was a

HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE !! I kept crying and screaming from the pain..and the

anesthesiologist ( he did the Cap) told me to " Shut up,and stop being such a

baby " !! Can you imagine the nerve of him? He should have only been in so

much pain ! No one should have to go through all of that . And even after all

of that, the results according to the " neuro from hell " ( sounds just like

the idiot you went to Marta.A doc who knows NOTHIGN abt LD and was not even

willing to listen to anything I had to tell him abt lyme, and BTW, who is

also the chief of neurology at a very big hospital here)after all that,the

spinal came back negative for LD.. SO he wrote all over my chart that I did

not have lyme disease and that he thought I never did . Said that all of my

problems step from migrane headaches which btw,,come from Stress that I don't

even know that I have! This after fighting lyme for 9 years with all postive

WB. Luat .. Babesia etc, etc... SO my point here is that all of that was

worthless. I later find out that spinal taps don't always show up positive

for lyme.. SO why go through all of that pain and misery.. If you are

considering having it done. PLEASE think it over good.

Good Luck

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann,

I was scoffing, because the one he wanted me to see is his colleague,

and I don't doubt for one second that he would have the same

" Steere-teachings " mindset. I did see a good Rheumatologist awhile back for

a disability review. His report on my illness was favorable and caused the

insurance company to pay up after turning my claim down twice. The only

problem with him is that he wanted to do a spinal tap, and I just cannot see

the point.

I am glad you found a good one too, I am sure there are even some good

Inf.. Disease doctors somewhere on this earth, I just haven't come across

one yet. Thanks for your kind words.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

-

>From: " " <jeand@...>

>

>Marta .... add my sentiments to everyone else's but I have to add ..... you

>mentioned that the fool doc wanted you to see a Rheumatologist. Don't

scoff

>too loud ... I had wonderful luck with the one I went to in OKC. He was

>Lyme literate and helped me a LOT!!! Maybe if you see one he/she will be

LL

>too. Can't hurt to try and if it turns out crappy ... chalk it up to

>another Lyme disappointment and then try again. We all know what those are

>all about.

>

>Hang in there.........

>

>Ann (TX)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You may have read it at the Lyme Alliance site, here is the information

again:

http://www.lymealliance.org/

Attention Lyme Disease Sufferers!

A leading class action litigation firm, Napoli, Kaiser & Bern, has just

agreed to represent Lyme sufferers against the health insurance companies.

If you suffer from Lyme disease and believe that you have not received

proper and/or sufficient coverage limitations imposed by your health

insurance company, Contact LymeSuit@... (Lyme Suit c/o Napoli, Kaiser &

Bern - LLP, 115 Broadway, New York, NY 10006). Please provide them with

your name, address (or at least state of residence) telephone number, the

name of your insurance carrier and a very brief summary of your coverage

issues (100 words or fewer please).

Please be assured that this is NOT a solicitation and there will be no cost

to you in joining this action. Further, any information you provide will

only be used in connection with this case.

I signed up for this awhile back, and haven't heard anything yet.

Hugs,

Marta

>From: Shasus@...

>

>Hmm, I seem to recall reading an article somewhere online about a lawyer

>setting up a classsuit for lyme patients who have been refused antibiotic

>treatment by the doctors and/or insurance companies. Unfortunately though I

>just read it recently, like last week, I cannot remember where I saw it due

>to the large volume of e mails and articles I read. Perhaps someone here

>knows about this.

>

>elizabeth

>

>md

[Guest guest]

Hi Bernadette,

Good idea, but I have in writing from this idiot doctor, referring to

another patient he saw, the following:

" Another study frequently evoked, particularly in Central New Jersey, is the

urine Lyme antigen assay. This test is quite controversial, has absolutely

no standardization, and no data to confirm the sensitivity and specificity. "

So I knew right off the bat that he did not believe in LUAT's, nor does

my own Lyme doctor, yet I think I will ask for the test only for my own

peace of mind, I need to know I am killing spirochetes.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: BratDet@...

>

>In a message dated 8/3/99 3:38:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>mlmccoy@... writes:

>

><< I went to the Inf. Disease guy because I was

> hoping to go back on IV therapy, because I am sero-negative, Aetna will

not

> approve it. >>

>everyone on this list shares your distress.....have you tried the LUAT???

>The reason why I ask is...back in February my regular M.D. mentioned doing

a

>LUAT...but he seemed convinced USHC did not pay for Lyme Urine antigen

>testing....but when my daughters Western blot that was supposed to go to

>Igenex and didn't.

>.I found out that USHC thru Kline Beecham labs.sends urine to igenex

>for Lyme testing and USHC does pay for it....perhaps that could help

>you.....Bernadette

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah right about the CFS thing....I was told it can be a life long

fight...and that I may have it for the rest of my life....what a joke...that

is why I think the CFS and Fibromyalgia are probably at least 90% lyme

cases....

Cyntha Idaho

>From: " J & M McCoy " <mlmccoy@...>

>Reply-lyme-aidonelist

><lyme-aidonelist>

>Subject: Re: [Lyme-aid] Update, Disappointing visit at Infectious Disease

>doctor.

>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:52:43 -0400

>

>From: " J & M McCoy " <mlmccoy@...>

>

>Thanks Dabs,

> I doubt I can sue him for having his own opinion about the treatment

>of

>sero-negative Lyme disease. I have signed up for that Class action suit

>against Aetna, for having such strict guidelines and refusing me IV

>treatment. Don't know what is happening with that though.

> You know, good idea, maybe I should look into the free IV thing. I

>will

>ask my doctor next appt. Why don't I think of these things???? LOL! I

>really appreciate all of you on this list who understand what a

>disappointment it is, when you get your hopes up for a doctor and he does a

>total about face. He did keep saying to me that he knew I was very sick,

>only thing is he thinks it is CFIDS and he said the good news is it only

>has

>a four year duration and should clear up on it's own in one year! Anyone

>ever heard of that crap???

>

>Hugs,

>Marta NJ

>

>

>

> >From: Dabret22@...

> >

> >Marta,

> >I have been outraged since I read your post and can't stop thinking about

>it.

> >I think we all care so much for you that we are taking this

>personally.....I

> >know I am . that SOB

> >Ditto on everything Fransea said and more. I am just sick over

>this.

> >Although a hassle, perhaps suing your insur. co is a thought..

> >IF you have any previous positive tests you have grounds

> >These bastards are refusing to treat you, what are you supposed to do,

>DIE

> >and then send him a report on your spirochete filled autopsy??

> >Is LLMD willing to give you IV if insur would pay??? If so, threaten a

>big

> >suit or join a class action one or START a class action one.

> >

> >What about the free drug thing?? I am just so frustrated

> >Please know we are all thinking of you.........xoxo Dabs

> >

>

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/99 3:16:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

mlmccoy@... writes:

<< y own expense.

I was tested only for Bb and Babesia by PCR and by WB. My doctor told

me I no longer test positive for HME....according to the experts that is

easily cured with a few weeks of abx....hmmmm, where have I heard that

before? >>

Marta,

I heard there ia anexperimental tests by Ignex to see if echrilois is still

there. I heard since it is experimental it is free. My doctor is looking

into it because she never heard of it. She said by my next visits she will

have answer. I was only treated with 3 weeks of oral doxy and my HME is

supposed to be cured!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/99 2:50:12 AM Central Daylight Time,

mlmccoy@... writes:

<< He did keep saying to me that he knew I was very sick,

only thing is he thinks it is CFIDS and he said the good news is it only has

a four year duration and should clear up on it's own in one year! Anyone

ever heard of that crap??? >>

Crap would be the appropriate word. I have been ill since 1993 and was first

diagnosed with CFIDS in late 1995. I can tell you that, based on much time

spent on CFIDS newsgroups and lists, that it " does not clear up after four

years " . I was finally diagnosed with Lyme in 1997.

But I still have questions in my mind about when Lyme stops and CFIDS begins.

I still see my CFIDS doctor as she handles CFIDS and HIV cases. She is of

the opinion that CFIDS is " triggered " by something, be it chemical,

bacterial, or viral. In my case, it would be Lyme. Technically, I have

CFIDS also, as I still meet all criteria based on immune system tests and

other factors.

My CFIDS doctor believes it is entirely possible to kill the source of CFIDS

(i.e., Lyme) and still have the residual effects remain, in my case immune

system dysfunction and fatigue. So you still have to work to improve the

immune system.

At some point I have to wonder when enough abx is enough and am I beating a

dead horse. I still check my immune system through my CFIDS doc's office and

will have it checked again in about two months. It has improved somewhat

(Lyme bacterial being killed?) but it is far from being a normal system.

I am not saying Lyme is easy to get rid of. I am saying that no one knows

when we are rid of it and when the abx may be impairing the immune system's

recovery. What if we have killed the infection and the immune system wants

to recover, but the massive doses of abx we are taking is keeping it from

doing so? Could it be a big Catch-22? I wrestle with this constantly but

am not nearly at a point to stop abx.

[Guest guest]

Dear Marta: I am so sorry that you had to go through that. Do you

remember when I went to the infectious disease pediatrician at Hershey

Medical for my children? Do you remember that he refused to look at

the kids and instead spent the entire time talking to me and telling me

that my kids didn't have lyme - they were having a " grief reaction " to

my pretending to have lyme!!!! Thought this might make you feel a

little better <g>

Lovette

[Guest guest]

>>> Wonder if that would be a

serious criminal offense, after all the tick can be considered a deadly

weapon! LOL!<<<

from marta

not by THOSE doctors!!!! LOL

kay

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bernadette,

I printed out your message and plan to do so today. I took my first

zithromax yesterday, and spent the whole day in bed, got up for dinner and

my second one and back to bed again. Not sure the zith would work that fast

or just plain old tired from Monday's fiasco. Hate when I do that though,

waste so much time, but I can't really get out bed for long, I feel too

woozy and weak.

Hugs,

Marta

>From: BratDet@...

>I would call up Nick over at Igenex and ask him to send you

qualifying

>info...it seems Luat is getting more acceptance...after all Why would our

>good old cheap US Capcare insurance pay for it? Usually the insurance

>companies first way to deny something is to say it is unproven...but now

they

>are paying for it...remember to send 3 specimens...it surely can't hurt...B

>

[Guest guest]

,

I just wrote a short message to the email address for the Lyme suit,

telling that Aetna is my insurer etc. I believe the class action suit is

against ALL insurers. I have already posted the suit information so I guess

you saw it, if not, let me know.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

-.

>From: BearyPrety@...

> Hi Marta,

>How can you sign up for that class action suit against Aetna? My cousin has

>Aetna and needs IV treatment very badly and Aetna refused to pay . She is

>seriously thinking of hiring an attorney, andI am sure she would want to

sign

>that class action suit against them also . Please let me know .

>Thank You

>

[Guest guest]

Bernadette,

I guess you are just lucky, or were testing highly positive at that time.

I wasn't, but my doctor got the IV based on the lesion on my brain per my

MRI, and he also needed a second opinion from a Neurologist or some other

specialist first too. I have heard from other sources and read in the

newspaper articles we pass around that Aetna requires positive testing in

order to approve IV. Now it could be true, that my doctor is not fighting

as hard as he could with the insurance companies in order to get the IV for

me, but I just don't know that for sure. I have literally begged for more

IV since my last round of it in early 1998 and get no where.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: BratDet@...

>

>In a message dated 8/4/99 7:30:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>BearyPrety@... writes:

>

><< My cousin has

> Aetna and needs IV treatment very badly and Aetna refused to pay >>

>Why? AUHSC paid for 12 weeks iv Zith for my husband and I...B

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I was already convinced no spinal taps for me, but you sure put the icing

on the cake with your story. What a nightmare for you. I am so sorry you

went through all that misery. I am convinced that admission into a hospital

is hazardous to your health, my poor Dad was in a leading Philadelphia

hospital for almost three months after his stroke and heart surgery. I was

there every day, and many times prevented accidents and errors from

happening to him while he was there. Wrong meds, PhysicalTherapy when he

was not allowed out of bed, I could go on and on. I guess the next time I

am considering suicide, I can just check myself in to the local

hospital....only kidding.

You really should have complained to the patient representative of the

hospital about the horrible treatment you got from the anesthesiologist. I

was on a first name basis with the patient rep at my dad's hospital(s).

When you complain you thereafter get royal treatment.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: BearyPrety@...

>

>In a message dated 8/4/99 3:00:47 AM EST, mlmccoy@... writes:

>

><< The only

> problem with him is that he wanted to do a spinal tap, and I just cannot

see

> the point. >>

>Hi Marta....

>I would never do the spinal again ,and had I known before hand that there

was

>a chance that it could " leak " ( which it DID in my case) and cause such

>excrutiating pain.. I mean the kind of pain that is soooo bad that it could

>actually freak you out.. literally ..(.I remember being in the hospital.. I

>had the window side... They did the spinal in my hosp.room, right over my

>bed) pain from the spinal leak was so bad that I'll tell you if it took the

>nurse one more second to shoot me up with IV pain meds .. I swear I WOULD

>have found a way to jump out of the window. It made childbirth seem like a

>piece of cake. They made me stay with that pain for 2 days until they

decided

>to do an Mri to confirm a leak in my spine from the spinal tap.. it was

>confirmed and then they had to do a Spinal " Cap " to close the leak.. That

was

>also done in my hospital bed with everyone walking in and out.. didn't

matter

>to them that I was sick as a dog from the spinal tap and my behind was

>sticking out as everyone was walking all around.Anyway , they had to take

>blood from my arm, remove some spinal fluid from my spine ( the pressure

>pain was awful) and then go back into my spine with the spinal fluid that

>they took out ,and the blood from my arm to close the " Leak " . It was a

>HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE !! I kept crying and screaming from the pain..and the

>anesthesiologist ( he did the Cap) told me to " Shut up,and stop being such

a

>baby " !! Can you imagine the nerve of him? He should have only been in so

>much pain ! No one should have to go through all of that . And even after

all

>of that, the results according to the " neuro from hell " ( sounds just like

>the idiot you went to Marta.A doc who knows NOTHIGN abt LD and was not

even

>willing to listen to anything I had to tell him abt lyme, and BTW, who is

>also the chief of neurology at a very big hospital here)after all that,the

>spinal came back negative for LD.. SO he wrote all over my chart that I did

>not have lyme disease and that he thought I never did . Said that all of my

>problems step from migrane headaches which btw,,come from Stress that I

don't

>even know that I have! This after fighting lyme for 9 years with all

postive

>WB. Luat .. Babesia etc, etc... SO my point here is that all of that was

>worthless. I later find out that spinal taps don't always show up

positive

>for lyme.. SO why go through all of that pain and misery.. If you are

>considering having it done. PLEASE think it over good.

>Good Luck

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

Sounds great and the price is right! I am going to call IGenex today

and will inquire about that HME test.

Thanks for sharing,

Marta NJ

>From: Prinny328@...

>

>In a message dated 8/4/99 3:16:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>mlmccoy@... writes:

>

><< y own expense.

> I was tested only for Bb and Babesia by PCR and by WB. My doctor told

> me I no longer test positive for HME....according to the experts that is

> easily cured with a few weeks of abx....hmmmm, where have I heard that

> before? >>

>

>

>Marta,

>I heard there ia anexperimental tests by Ignex to see if echrilois is still

>there. I heard since it is experimental it is free. My doctor is looking

>into it because she never heard of it. She said by my next visits she will

>have answer. I was only treated with 3 weeks of oral doxy and my HME is

>supposed to be cured!!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lovette,

Now that you remind me about that, I do remember. What a jerk, he sure

beats my guy with his stupid zipper down. If I wasn't so upset when I left

I would have been laughing about it!

I know we all have stories about nighmare doctor visits, and that is the

only thing that gets me through this.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

--

>From: " F. Mott " <smott@...>

>

>Dear Marta: I am so sorry that you had to go through that. Do you

>remember when I went to the infectious disease pediatrician at Hershey

>Medical for my children? Do you remember that he refused to look at

>the kids and instead spent the entire time talking to me and telling me

>that my kids didn't have lyme - they were having a " grief reaction " to

>my pretending to have lyme!!!! Thought this might make you feel a

>little better <g>

>

>Lovette

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/5/99 3:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

mlmccoy@... writes:

<< I have heard from other sources and read in the

newspaper articles we pass around that Aetna requires positive testing in

order to approve IV. >>

i was not positive per cdc criteria nor was my husband...borderline

positives...I did seroconvert while on meds and got 8 out of 10 bands

positive, so you are right...it might reinforce why they continued to pay B

[Guest guest]

Hi Golfdawg,

Can you possibly share the types of blood tests that you have that show

CFIDS? BTW, I knew this guy was full of crap when he told me that CFIDS

goes in remission for four years, he was just anxious to be rid of me, and

would have told me anything at that point. He also told me he has no

problem with his patient utilizing the internet to look up CFIDS sites and

try the supplements that they offer.

I know what you mean about beating a dead horse, these thoughts are what

prompted me to stop abx in June, but I did learn from my little experiment

that many of my symptoms increased or old ones came back while I was off

them. I firmly believe I need abx to function, at least at this point of my

disease.

I am back on them as of yesterday, and feel relieved that I am too, guess

you can tell that stupid ID did not convince me at all that my problems is

CFIDS. I believe there is a CFIDS, but like you say it has to have a root,

and if I develop it, I know it will be Lyme that triggered it.

Hugs,

Marta NJ

>From: Golfdawg@...

>Crap would be the appropriate word. I have been ill since 1993 and was

first

>diagnosed with CFIDS in late 1995. I can tell you that, based on much time

>spent on CFIDS newsgroups and lists, that it " does not clear up after four

>years " . I was finally diagnosed with Lyme in 1997.

>

>But I still have questions in my mind about when Lyme stops and CFIDS

begins.

> I still see my CFIDS doctor as she handles CFIDS and HIV cases. She is of

>the opinion that CFIDS is " triggered " by something, be it chemical,

>bacterial, or viral. In my case, it would be Lyme. Technically, I have

>CFIDS also, as I still meet all criteria based on immune system tests and

>other factors.

>

>My CFIDS doctor believes it is entirely possible to kill the source of

CFIDS

>(i.e., Lyme) and still have the residual effects remain, in my case immune

>system dysfunction and fatigue. So you still have to work to improve the

>immune system.

>

>At some point I have to wonder when enough abx is enough and am I beating a

>dead horse. I still check my immune system through my CFIDS doc's office

and

>will have it checked again in about two months. It has improved somewhat

>(Lyme bacterial being killed?) but it is far from being a normal system.

>

>I am not saying Lyme is easy to get rid of. I am saying that no one knows

>when we are rid of it and when the abx may be impairing the immune system's

>recovery. What if we have killed the infection and the immune system wants

>to recover, but the massive doses of abx we are taking is keeping it from

>doing so? Could it be a big Catch-22? I wrestle with this constantly but

>am not nearly at a point to stop abx.