Re: overwhelmed newly diagnosed chronic lyme and all co-infections

[Guest guest]

Hi Molly,

Welcome and congratulations on getting a diagnosis (though I know it doesn't

necessarily feel like something to be congratulated for) and for finding

Healing Lyme and this group.

And good for you for all the research you're doing. I know it's not easy when

you're not feeling well.

I did (pharmaceutical) abx/antibiotics before the herbal protocol, and have

not done them together. If I did abx again (which I will if I have to), I think

I would at least do Sarsparilla/Smilax with the antibiotics. If I were

starting the herbals again (w/o abx) I would definitely start Smilax first or

along

with one other herb in the beginning. Not only does it appear to be a great

help in reducing herxeimer reactions by binding with and removing endotoxins,

but it's supposedly also a synergist/bioavailabilty aid so can help other meds

(like abx) do their work.

The only downside I can think of to doing this is if one is on any antibiotic

for the first time, having herxeimer reactions are what can help tell both

patient and doc if it's working. However, herxes are not fun (that's an

understatement!) and having die-off toxins wreaking havoc is not the healthiest

thing

in the world, including the extra stress it creates.

I know there are similar plusses (biovavailabilty, reduced herxing), and

maybe minuses (like also herxing from some herbs, though maybe Smilax can offset

that if taken early enough in the protocol), to doing one or more of the other

herbals with abx. The good thing is you can always adjust your herbal protocol

as you go along. And there is support here.

Do you have a support group meeting in your area? If you don't know, you can

look here:

http://www.lymenet.org/SupportGroups/UnitedStates

I have found support meetings to be invaluable sources of info, etc. (and

that's what led me to the Healing Lyme book and this group). If there's one in

your area and you can't get there at this time, keep it in mind for later.

Yes (and no), I got " sicker " from doing the abx (oral - I have not done IV

abx), and by that I mean herxing. I had no doubt some of my symptom flares were

herxes because they were many times worse than they had ever been. I did not

get sicker as far as the infection worsening.

Re your question on IV supplementation: I don't know anything about ozone,

but I think supporting the body in general is a good thing. I've never done any

IV supplementation, but did years of oral vitamins, minerals, etc., with the

help of a naturopath, and that helped a lot in the years before I got a Lyme

dx.

I have amalgams but have not been tested for toxicity and I feel I am not

ready to deal with another issue at this time. Others have posted on this topic

and (I remember at least one person saying not to try to do too many things at

once).

Hang in there, Molly. You're heading in the right direction, and you're not

alone.

Ann

In a message dated 12/4/06 1:01:10 AM, nostorystory@... writes:

> My first question, then, is have most of you done both antibiotics

> and the Buhner protocol? Do you think the antibiotics are a good

> idea in addition to the herbs, at least for starters? And did any of

> you get sicker from doing anitibiotics? What do you think about

> doing some IV's first to boost the system? And has anyone had a

> negative reaction to ozone?

>

> The other thing I've learned is that I have mercury and lead

> toxicity. I have about 8 mercury amalgams in my mouth. Again, I

> have some docs who say I won't get well until I take the amalgam out

> and chelate and others who say that taking the amalgam out will only

> make me sicker.

>

> So, my second question is have you any of you removed the amalgam and

> had it really hurt or help your healing?

>

> Thank you for listening.

>

> An overwhelmed compatriot,

> Molly

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Molly, I had all my amalgams removed (12), and a root canal

retreated. Other than the root canal tooth which I eventually had to

have extracted, I can say it certainly did not cause me more harm. In

fact it helped, as I had some decay also under the amalgams, which my

dentist says is quite common. I did have the amalgams removed the

correct way with all the precautiions taken. You might want to order

this book (Mercury Free) written by the dentist that removed my

amalgams. It explains everything you would need to know about mercury

toxicity, amalgam removal and chelation.

http://mercury-free.com/index.htm

V

>

> Hi you all,

>

>

> The other thing I've learned is that I have mercury and lead

> toxicity. I have about 8 mercury amalgams in my mouth. Again, I

> have some docs who say I won't get well until I take the amalgam

out

> and chelate and others who say that taking the amalgam out will

only

> make me sicker.

>

> So, my second question is have you any of you removed the amalgam

and

> had it really hurt or help your healing?

>

> Thank you for listening.

>

> An overwhelmed compatriot,

> Molly

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Molly,

Welcome to the list.

Just want to add to Ann's comment:

Buhner says that it is perfectly OK to take both herbs and antibiotics

at same time.

ellen

>

> > Hi everybody. I missed you guys. I don't follow the forum everyday as

> > I'm getting back to life. I feel it's difficult somehow, as I've been

> > so inward turned for the last year that I have to find my friends

> > back,

> > contacts back, it's a bit strange. Like being reborn somehow.

> >

> > This last week I've been to my doctor and my naturopath. Both said I

> > improved a lot. There's still a long way to go though, in terms of

> > time

> > though.

> >

> > A good news and a bad news. Bad news is that bartonella started to be

> > active again (after a period being dormant). I never knew I had

> > bartonella, it was ART that showed that in April. I never treated it

> > either, I only treated babesiosis (a bit) and lyme (a lot). Well, my

> > small joint pains (fingers) is not borrelia, it's bartonella (??).

> >

> > The good news is that borrelia is losing territory everytime I see my

> > naturopath. She said she can't see it anywhere else than my head/

> > brain. I'm sooo glad! Before they were everywhere, specially joints

> > and

> > intestines.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Molly, if you asked that before I caught lyme, my answer would never

be 'try muscle test'. Now, I would say 'trust muscle test'. If you

trust your practioner, and his/her muscle test, you're in the right

direction to start. My own opinion. If antibiotics are tested

positive, I would take them. If they test negative, I would be away

from that.

Muscle test is not perfect but it's the best short cut for finding

the right treatment in my experience. Before I got lyme, I would

NEVER have said that. It's just something I started to realize after

my treatment started to work (coincidently, exactly when I started

muscle test).

It takes too long to do the normal way, 'try and see', blood exams

etc, to find a perfect doctor who has loads of experience etc.

I hope you'll get better soon, at least, get some improvement soon.

I would advise you to take off amalgams when you feel your body is

not too bad (not in the worst hole!). It was a hard experience for me

(I took them in April/May, if I remember right). You need some help

there, loads of chlorella, sulphur etc. It was tough for me (I had 12

amalgams). But chlorella was a my best friend at that time.

I did take mine when I was in the hole, but I had not much choice.

The naturopath advised me to take all of them in maximum 2 weeks

interval. I do understand why now. Prepare to be living on chlorella

pills...

I now start to feel what my treatment means (Dr. K's idea): to

cleanse the body, take off all stress possible so that it can start

self-healing. That's when you start with diet (no allergens),

cleasing metals, eletromagnetic fields, toxins, traumas...

I'm not 100% sure this thorough cleansing EQUALS healing, but I did

improve, slowly but steadily. I still have a long way to go, but I'm

very functional. I'm cooking for friends again, trying to find

activities to do again, ashamed of my garden (that still looks like

abandoned), etc.

Hope you'll find a solution for your next treatment. I know it's

difficult to decide, specially with brain fog. I had no choice as the

person who did muscle tests (ART) to me was the ONLY one willing to

treat me. No other doctor was willing to treat me for lack of

diagnosis.

Good luck!

Selma

:

>

> Hi you all,

>

> I have been reading Buhner's book and am glad to have found this

> list. I have been working my way through the archives, but I

thought

> I'd post some questions, if that's alright.

>

> Apparently I've had lyme for a long time, and I've been really

sick

> for 2-3 years. It was hard to diagnose because my Western Blot

was

> ambiguous. This past week I had a dark field blood analysis,

though,

> and you could see the little spirochetes twirling around.

>

> I'm very unwell--can hardly walk because of swollen knees and have

> become very atrophied from lack of exercise, don't sleep much at

> night, have serious malabsorption, weight now at least stable at

95

> lbs (at 5'6 " ), tired all the time, brain and joints effected. I

have

> one doctor who says I'm too sick to go on antibiotics, and the

rest

> are insistent that I need to start them and fast. I've started

the

> Buhner protocol at a very low dose--I take what's indicated by

muscle

> testing myself. I'm scared about doing the antibiotics, and at

the

> same time all of my intuitive friends who are not ideologically

into

> traditional medicine per se are insistent that they repeatedly get

> that I need to go on antibiotics.

>

> One doctor wants to put me on some IV's first that include

vitamins,

> minerals, glutathione and ozone to first give me a boost.

>

> My first question, then, is have most of you done both antibiotics

> and the Buhner protocol? Do you think the antibiotics are a good

> idea in addition to the herbs, at least for starters? And did any

of

> you get sicker from doing anitibiotics? What do you think about

> doing some IV's first to boost the system? And has anyone had a

> negative reaction to ozone?

>

> The other thing I've learned is that I have mercury and lead

> toxicity. I have about 8 mercury amalgams in my mouth. Again, I

> have some docs who say I won't get well until I take the amalgam

out

> and chelate and others who say that taking the amalgam out will

only

> make me sicker.

>

> So, my second question is have you any of you removed the amalgam

and

> had it really hurt or help your healing?

>

> Thank you for listening.

>

> An overwhelmed compatriot,

> Molly

>

[Guest guest]

welcome, molly,

your situation sounds much like mine a few years ago. i still have trouble

typing, so this is short.

four years ago, biggest initial improvement was discovering i'm

hypoglycemic, so went to low-carb diet. then tested intolerant of gluten AND

casein, so on very strict gf-cf diet. i've also eaten only organic, local,

in-season foods (no processed foods, no sugar) for about 30 years, so diet

is very important.

i was on orals antibiotics for 3months, no improvement, kept getting much

worse.

iv rocephin for 6weeks and got LOT worse, had to stop.

mepron and zith for babesiosis for 4months, slow progress.

then major setback from doing only one iv glutathione and three iv vit c.

had to start over.

last year, doc and holistic dentist both told i was very mercury toxic, too

ill to chelate. first step is to remove amalgams safely, told too ill to

remove them. since abx didnot help, doc thinks i have to treat mercury

before lyme treatment will be successful (per burrascanno).

this summer, started very slowly with buhner herbs, very slow improvement.

few weeks ago, got holistic dentist agree to remove amalgams, starting in

february, so by spring i should be able to start chelating using andrew

culter's protocol. then will go back to focus on lyme.

for me, i would not do abx and buhner herbs at same time--because too many

things at once, so don't know what is working or causing problems, and too

high risk of major herx. i have to very slow add one thing at time, adjust

dosing. when feel somewhat stable, then add new item.

if i do abx again, i would however, use smilax to help detox and use red

root to cleanse lymph, as well as milk thistle to nourish liver, etc.

each person is so very different. very important to balance killing keets

with detoxing and cleansing and nourishing body. for me major aspect is

getting deep rest. use your health care provider's expertise and your own

intuition to listen to your body and what it needs, ever-changing.

most helpful to me over years of being disabled with this illness:

meditation, breathing, moving-dancing, gratitude, appreciation.

in this challenging time of illness and transition,

may gratitude and wonder enlighten your path, step by step.

may grace and ease enliven your presence, breath by breath.

kendra

[Guest guest]

Hi Selma, So glad you are posting how good muscle testing is. Just go back from

my Drs and he did alot of testing on me. I love it like u do. I also love

working with the pendulum and get same answers. What wonderful gifts the

Universe provides. Take care sweetie. Glad you are doing so well. Joyce

selmanaka <hardynaka@...> wrote: Molly,

if you asked that before I caught lyme, my answer would never

be 'try muscle test'. Now, I would say 'trust muscle test'. If you

trust your practioner, and his/her muscle test, you're in the right

direction to start. My own opinion. If antibiotics are tested

positive, I would take them. If they test negative, I would be away

from that.

Muscle test is not perfect but it's the best short cut for finding

the right treatment in my experience. Before I got lyme, I would

NEVER have said that. It's just something I started to realize after

my treatment started to work (coincidently, exactly when I started

muscle test).

It takes too long to do the normal way, 'try and see', blood exams

etc, to find a perfect doctor who has loads of experience etc.

I hope you'll get better soon, at least, get some improvement soon.

I would advise you to take off amalgams when you feel your body is

not too bad (not in the worst hole!). It was a hard experience for me

(I took them in April/May, if I remember right). You need some help

there, loads of chlorella, sulphur etc. It was tough for me (I had 12

amalgams). But chlorella was a my best friend at that time.

I did take mine when I was in the hole, but I had not much choice.

The naturopath advised me to take all of them in maximum 2 weeks

interval. I do understand why now. Prepare to be living on chlorella

pills...

I now start to feel what my treatment means (Dr. K's idea): to

cleanse the body, take off all stress possible so that it can start

self-healing. That's when you start with diet (no allergens),

cleasing metals, eletromagnetic fields, toxins, traumas...

I'm not 100% sure this thorough cleansing EQUALS healing, but I did

improve, slowly but steadily. I still have a long way to go, but I'm

very functional. I'm cooking for friends again, trying to find

activities to do again, ashamed of my garden (that still looks like

abandoned), etc.

Hope you'll find a solution for your next treatment. I know it's

difficult to decide, specially with brain fog. I had no choice as the

person who did muscle tests (ART) to me was the ONLY one willing to

treat me. No other doctor was willing to treat me for lack of

diagnosis.

Good luck!

Selma

:

>

> Hi you all,

>

> I have been reading Buhner's book and am glad to have found this

> list. I have been working my way through the archives, but I

thought

> I'd post some questions, if that's alright.

>

> Apparently I've had lyme for a long time, and I've been really

sick

> for 2-3 years. It was hard to diagnose because my Western Blot

was

> ambiguous. This past week I had a dark field blood analysis,

though,

> and you could see the little spirochetes twirling around.

>

> I'm very unwell--can hardly walk because of swollen knees and have

> become very atrophied from lack of exercise, don't sleep much at

> night, have serious malabsorption, weight now at least stable at

95

> lbs (at 5'6 " ), tired all the time, brain and joints effected. I

have

> one doctor who says I'm too sick to go on antibiotics, and the

rest

> are insistent that I need to start them and fast. I've started

the

> Buhner protocol at a very low dose--I take what's indicated by

muscle

> testing myself. I'm scared about doing the antibiotics, and at

the

> same time all of my intuitive friends who are not ideologically

into

> traditional medicine per se are insistent that they repeatedly get

> that I need to go on antibiotics.

>

> One doctor wants to put me on some IV's first that include

vitamins,

> minerals, glutathione and ozone to first give me a boost.

>

> My first question, then, is have most of you done both antibiotics

> and the Buhner protocol? Do you think the antibiotics are a good

> idea in addition to the herbs, at least for starters? And did any

of

> you get sicker from doing anitibiotics? What do you think about

> doing some IV's first to boost the system? And has anyone had a

> negative reaction to ozone?

>

> The other thing I've learned is that I have mercury and lead

> toxicity. I have about 8 mercury amalgams in my mouth. Again, I

> have some docs who say I won't get well until I take the amalgam

out

> and chelate and others who say that taking the amalgam out will

only

> make me sicker.

>

> So, my second question is have you any of you removed the amalgam

and

> had it really hurt or help your healing?

>

> Thank you for listening.

>

> An overwhelmed compatriot,

> Molly

>

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann,

Thank you for your warm welcome and for taking the time to write out

so much information.

One thing I'm confused about, is how do you know if you're having a

herx reaction versus an ordinary fluctuation in symptoms, which I

have a lot of. I hear that while you were on antibiotics you were

sure it was herx because the flares were so much more pronounced.

But what if they're milder, I wonder. What scares me is the stories

about people taking antibiotics and being worse in a prolonged way,

something that seems more than just a herx that passes.

I think the reason that IV was suggested to me is that I am clearly

having malabsorption, so while I take all kinds of supplements,

there's some concern that I'm not absorbing them.

Thank you again, Ann! What an incredible resource this list is.

Best,

Molly

On Dec 4, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Grpinfo@... wrote:

> Hi Molly,

>

> Welcome and congratulations on getting a diagnosis (though I know

> it doesn't

> necessarily feel like something to be congratulated for) and for

> finding

> Healing Lyme and this group.

>

> And good for you for all the research you're doing. I know it's not

> easy when

> you're not feeling well.

>

> I did (pharmaceutical) abx/antibiotics before the herbal protocol,

> and have

> not done them together. If I did abx again (which I will if I have

> to), I think

> I would at least do Sarsparilla/Smilax with the antibiotics. If I were

> starting the herbals again (w/o abx) I would definitely start

> Smilax first or along

> with one other herb in the beginning. Not only does it appear to be

> a great

> help in reducing herxeimer reactions by binding with and removing

> endotoxins,

> but it's supposedly also a synergist/bioavailabilty aid so can help

> other meds

> (like abx) do their work.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Were you very ill with Lyme at

the time you had the extractions, I wonder? And did it seem to help

your overall course of recovery?

I will look up the book.

Best,

Molly

On Dec 4, 2006, at 6:42 AM, maribob7 wrote:

> Hi Molly, I had all my amalgams removed (12), and a root canal

> retreated. Other than the root canal tooth which I eventually had to

> have extracted, I can say it certainly did not cause me more harm. In

> fact it helped, as I had some decay also under the amalgams, which my

> dentist says is quite common. I did have the amalgams removed the

> correct way with all the precautiions taken. You might want to order

> this book (Mercury Free) written by the dentist that removed my

> amalgams. It explains everything you would need to know about mercury

> toxicity, amalgam removal and chelation.

>

> http://mercury-free.com/index.htm

> V

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kendra,

Thank you for sharing your experience at such great length,

especially when you have trouble typing!

I also went off gluten and casein which helped stabilize my descent,

for sure. I stopped losing weight at that point, and even put a

couple of pounds back on, though that's all.

Thanks for telling me about your adverse reactions to antibiotics and

IVs. This is what I am so concerned about as I have a feeling of

such overall fragility. That's interesting that you're thinking now

that the mercury has to go first before you respond to antibiotics.

I will be very interested to hear how this new plan goes.

Right now I'm thinking I'll start the nutritional IV's but maybe at

half dose.

Thanks especially, Kendra, for your prayerful and eloquent wishes and

for your reminders about meditation and gratitude. I have that bent

also, and feel that this illness if nothing else has obliged me to

fall back on my inner resources.

All the best wishes for you as well in your journey.

Molly

On Dec 4, 2006, at 3:20 PM, kendra wrote:

> welcome, molly,

> your situation sounds much like mine a few years ago. i still have

> trouble

> typing, so this is short.

>

> four years ago, biggest initial improvement was discovering i'm

> hypoglycemic, so went to low-carb diet. then tested intolerant of

> gluten AND

> casein, so on very strict gf-cf diet. i've also eaten only organic,

> local,

> in-season foods (no processed foods, no sugar) for about 30 years,

> so diet

> is very important.

>

> i was on orals antibiotics for 3months, no improvement, kept

> getting much

> worse.

> iv rocephin for 6weeks and got LOT worse, had to stop.

> mepron and zith for babesiosis for 4months, slow progress.

> then major setback from doing only one iv glutathione and three iv

> vit c.

> had to start over.

>

> last year, doc and holistic dentist both told i was very mercury

> toxic, too

> ill to chelate. first step is to remove amalgams safely, told too

> ill to

> remove them. since abx didnot help, doc thinks i have to treat mercury

> before lyme treatment will be successful (per burrascanno).

>

[Guest guest]

You mentioned deep rest. That's the hardest thing for me. I get

agitated during the night, and sometimes am in so much pain that it

is difficult to rest. Also, I have so much muscle tension,

especially in the neck and shoulders. It's hard to feel like I can

really relax.

Recently I had some testing done with Neuroscience and have started

taking some amino acid precursors to neurotransmittors. My

excitatory transmittors are elevated. So what they do is increase

the inhibitory ones so that it brings down the excitatory ones. This

helps a bit.

I meditate tons, especially during the day, and this helps me be to

get through the day.

Molly7

On Dec 4, 2006, at 3:20 PM, kendra wrote:

> welcome, molly,

> your situation sounds much like mine a few years ago. i still have

> trouble

> typing, so this is short.

>

> four years ago, biggest initial improvement was discovering i'm

> hypoglycemic, so went to low-carb diet. then tested intolerant of

> gluten AND

> casein, so on very strict gf-cf diet. i've also eaten only organic,

> local,

> in-season foods (no processed foods, no sugar) for about 30 years,

> so diet

> is very important.

>

> i was on orals antibiotics for 3months, no improvement, kept

> getting much

> worse.

> iv rocephin for 6weeks and got LOT worse, had to stop.

> mepron and zith for babesiosis for 4months, slow progress.

> then major setback from doing only one iv glutathione and three iv

> vit c.

> had to start over.

>

> last year, doc and holistic dentist both told i was very mercury

> toxic, too

> ill to chelate. first step is to remove amalgams safely, told too

> ill to

> remove them. since abx didnot help, doc thinks i have to treat mercury

> before lyme treatment will be successful (per burrascanno).

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Selma, for sharing your experiences.

I'm so glad that you found a practitioner willing to work with you,

and who, I take it, is helping you.

I assume that taking out the amalgam did not set you back, then? Did

it seem to help in your overall progress? Did you mean you took them

out in phases, two weeks apart?

I hear what you're saying about cleansing. I have the purest diet at

this point. I have been doing emotional clearing on almost a daily

basis (there was plenty of scope) for a couple of years now, and I

even am into clearing my house whenever I am up for it! I definitely

feel that this supports the body, but I don't get that it's really

helping getting rid of the pathogens.

About muscle testing. What a weird phenomenon. I have not always

found it consistent, but I use it all the time. I had one

practitioner who taught me to put a substance in my hand, right at my

belly, and just sense what it does to my body, especially whether it

seems to bring a feeling of more lightness or weightiness. I have

learned to trust this quite a lot.

In fact, I have been doing a certain amount of self-medicating on

this basis. I have a lot of edema in my knees as well as

inflammation, and I have found in the last few weeks supplements and

herbs and homeopathics that are helping me with these symptoms. As a

consequence, I have been able to walk a little bit more just around

my own house. These little things help a lot!

I'm taking many of Buhner's herbs on this basis, though I only get

that I should take them at low doses right now. I will also test the

pharmaceutical antibiotics this way when I see my lyme doc next

week. It's tricky though, because part of what I pick up when I do

this is the way that the substance taxes the system--i.e. the detox

load.

When it comes to muscle testing something less immediate, like the

advisability of removing amalgam, I lose confidence, and get mixed

results.

It's great to find a place where people are exploring all these things.

I'm glad to hear you are on the mend.

Molly

On Dec 4, 2006, at 3:18 PM, selmanaka wrote:

> Molly, if you asked that before I caught lyme, my answer would never

> be 'try muscle test'. Now, I would say 'trust muscle test'. If you

> trust your practioner, and his/her muscle test, you're in the right

> direction to start. My own opinion. If antibiotics are tested

> positive, I would take them. If they test negative, I would be away

> from that.

>

> Muscle test is not perfect but it's the best short cut for finding

> the right treatment in my experience. Before I got lyme, I would

> NEVER have said that. It's just something I started to realize after

> my treatment started to work (coincidently, exactly when I started

> muscle test).

>

> It takes too long to do the normal way, 'try and see', blood exams

> etc, to find a perfect doctor who has loads of experience etc.

>

> I hope you'll get better soon, at least, get some improvement soon.

>

> I would advise you to take off amalgams when you feel your body is

> not too bad (not in the worst hole!). It was a hard experience for me

> (I took them in April/May, if I remember right). You need some help

> there, loads of chlorella, sulphur etc. It was tough for me (I had 12

> amalgams). But chlorella was a my best friend at that time.

>

> I did take mine when I was in the hole, but I had not much choice.

> The naturopath advised me to take all of them in maximum 2 weeks

> interval. I do understand why now. Prepare to be living on chlorella

> pills...

>

> I now start to feel what my treatment means (Dr. K's idea): to

> cleanse the body, take off all stress possible so that it can start

> self-healing. That's when you start with diet (no allergens),

> cleasing metals, eletromagnetic fields, toxins, traumas...

>

> I'm not 100% sure this thorough cleansing EQUALS healing, but I did

> improve, slowly but steadily. I still have a long way to go, but I'm

> very functional. I'm cooking for friends again, trying to find

> activities to do again, ashamed of my garden (that still looks like

> abandoned), etc.

>

> Hope you'll find a solution for your next treatment. I know it's

> difficult to decide, specially with brain fog. I had no choice as the

> person who did muscle tests (ART) to me was the ONLY one willing to

> treat me. No other doctor was willing to treat me for lack of

> diagnosis.

>

> Good luck!

>

> Selma

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Molly, at the time I had my 12 amalgams removed (I only had one

tooth extraction), I did not know I had lyme. After amalgam removal,

I chelated for about 9 months with DMSA. I continued to have symptoms

after that....pricklies as I call them, and severe joint pain mostly.

One positive response I did have with amalgam removal was that

pulsating tinnitus in one ear stopped. I figured it was because

infection was cleared out. I do still have tinnitus in both ears, but

that is another issue I associate with lyme. I have to say that

having my amalgams removed and chelating had to have helped. It

certainly did not cause any harm. V

>

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks for sharing your experience. Were you very ill with Lyme

at

> the time you had the extractions, I wonder? And did it seem to

help

> your overall course of recovery?

>

> I will look up the book.

>

> Best,

> Molly

[Guest guest]

Molly,

The immediate weeks (few months) following amalgam removals (12

out!!) were not well AT ALL. I had metal poisoning symptoms, on my

intestines, liver, kidney, lymphatic system. Everything got cleared

with chorella in loads (LOADS!). But it took time. I believe my

intestines got rid of metals only after about 5 months. It's when the

effect of chlorella diminished for me (a month or two ago). I don't

take chlrorella as a 'drug' I craved like in the past, but I still

take a lot of it.

I can't say I went backwards, I can just say I had a new thing: metal

poisoning symptoms. This was sure. You can really see the symptoms

diminishing about 30 minutes to 1 hour after chlorella intake.

They'll come back again until you re-take chlorela again, and so on.

I took half amalgams in a week, and half of the amalgams in the next

week. Or about 3 weeks interval, I can't remember. But the naturopath

advised to do it as fast as possible, with little interval as

possible.

Glad you can feel when something helps you or not. I'm not as good as

you guys, even on the pendulum, it gives me different answers as ART.

I'm soooo down to earth, it may be because I'm not a 100% believer

yet on these energy diagnosis. But these energy tests really helped

me.

Glad you trust your feelings and tests and that you're slowly

improving too!!

After the initial phase of chelation (intestines and blood only), I

went into the intracellular chelation. That was harsh! Lots of

fatigue. But once I started mastering the chelation supplements

(sulphur, oils, proteins, mineral supplementation, enzymes), things

went more manageable. A bit less tough. But I hate chelation still...

I do feel borrelia loved that I took metals off because I think my

borrelia infections were not too strong when I started chelation.

Since chelation, I feel parallel infections coming and going. For

example, now I'm on a fierce battle against fungal infections. I

never had these infections so bad like I have now. Like I started

having funghi on my hands!!! First time in life.

I also feel that everytime I take a chelator, it feels exactly like I

took sugar. The funghi loves free metals in my blood and then tehy

spread more!! Exaclty like when I take sugar. It's a nasty battle,

but not as nasty as fighting babesia and borrelia!!

I consider myself now more on a battle against metals than on a

battle against lyme. I'm improving, but still far from cured (of

both). I don't know if metals made me sick with lyme, but I do know

that metals can cause the worst type of imaginable symptoms!!

Selma

[Guest guest]

Hi Molly, It took me 2 1/2 months to get all my amalgams removed, as

per advice from my dentist (I mentioned him in a previous e-mail). He

doesn't advise a lot of amaglams removed at one time. Also he had a

specific order in removing them. The ones that cause the most harm

and destroy pathways he removed first. In his book he mentions his

protocol, and what supplements he advises to take. If amalgams are

not removed the correct way (with using oxygen, using a rubber dam,

using high powered instruments that most dentists do not use, no rugs

in office, air filters everywhere and other precautions), a lot of

mercury will enter the body and cause a lot of mercury toxic symptoms

for a long time afterwards. Also I have read that lyme bacteria hides

within mercury in the body, and when mercury is chelated, the lyme

bacteria are stirred loose and this can cause more lyme symptoms. I

believe in the long run having amalgams removed should help. My

daugher had her amalgams removed by the same dentist that removed

mine, and she felt flu like symptoms just a couple of days after each

removal session, but these symptoms did not last long and went away.

According to Dr. Cutler, an expert on chelation, chlorella has

been known to cause more problems because it is a single thiol, which

means it is not strong enough to chelate mercury out of the body. It

just redistributes it (picks it up and drops it, not strong enough to

hold it). A product that has 2 thiols such as ALA, DMSA, or DMPS is a

strong chelate that can hang on to mercury and thus carry it out of

the body. V

>

> Molly,

>

>

> The immediate weeks (few months) following amalgam removals (12

> out!!) were not well AT ALL. I had metal poisoning symptoms, on my

> intestines, liver, kidney, lymphatic system. Everything got cleared

> with chorella in loads (LOADS!). But it took time. I believe my

> intestines got rid of metals only after about 5 months. It's when

the

> effect of chlorella diminished for me (a month or two ago). I don't

> take chlrorella as a 'drug' I craved like in the past, but I still

> take a lot of it.

>

> I can't say I went backwards, I can just say I had a new thing:

metal

> poisoning symptoms. This was sure. You can really see the symptoms

> diminishing about 30 minutes to 1 hour after chlorella intake.

> They'll come back again until you re-take chlorela again, and so on.

>

> I took half amalgams in a week, and half of the amalgams in the

next

> week. Or about 3 weeks interval, I can't remember. But the

naturopath

> advised to do it as fast as possible, with little interval as

> possible.

>

> Selma

>

[Guest guest]

Hi V,

You were much luckier than I to have found a good dentist. I didn't

look too much (as I was not a real believer on the toxicity of

mercury) and even if I had looked, I don't think I was going to be

able to afford the treatment you received.

Glad to hear you didn't suffer any side effects from removals. I did.

I only had a rubber protection, that was all. And chlorella.

As for chelation protocols, there's unfortunately no single protocol

accepted by all. More or less like lyme protocols. Glad you shared

your experience so that others may profit from different protocols.

How do you find it helped your lyme disease and your daughters? HOw

long did you chelate? Are you still on it?

I had no choice in finding different chelation protocols. I just fell

on the naturopath that does that the way she did/ does on me. I start

to trust her, because I improved.

Buhner wrote me not long ago that chlorella is an excellent

supplement to be added to his protocol. He didn't say 'good', he

said 'excellent'. He is one of the few guys I really trust. I don't

think he's got financial interests behind his advice.

I'm not 100% sure dr. K. is 'correct' in using chlorella as a

chelator (even though chlorella is not the main chelator). His

institute in Germany uses it a lot. And it has treated hundreds of

people like that for many years. Of course, chlorella is not used to

take off metals from the cells. It's basically used to cleanse

extracelllular (just part of mercury is there, most of it are

intracellular).

It's known that if you take little of chlorella, it will only stirr

metals and won't chelate. So you are probably right that it doesn't

have strong binding powers.

My doubt is always on the financial interests behind each protocol

(no matter if against lyme or against mercury). And also on ego-wars.

I don't know if doctors/ experts use this or that argument because of

their financial interests or just because of a battle of egos... Hope

you could share your feeling on that concerning Cutler's protocol.

http://www.drcranton.com/chelation/carter.htm

This is an interesting article about these chelation 'wars',

concerning EDTA.

I feel awful to discover that many lyme researchers/ doctors profit a

lot from sufferers like us. In this context, I dont' really trust

anyone.

That's why I don't put my hands in the fire for anyone, except for

Buhner.

If I remember well, ALA is not considered a good substance to chelate

according to dr. K. If I remember well, his advice is to avoid using

it. I don't remember why. I can do a search, if people are

interested. He is also an expert in chelation, he's been doing it for

decades. But as I told before, I don't put my hands on fire for

anyone, except Buhner. It could be just another chelation 'war' (like

lyme wars)?

I just would like to add that chlorella is used as main chelator in

his protocol only in the beginning, to clear the gut and blood. After

this initial phase, the real chelation starts, and he uses a bit of

Phospholipid Exchange, NDF, and Cillantro tincture.

NDF carries the metals off by urine (kidneys). I add chlorella when I

feel poisoning is still there AFTER urination. I swear that there's

lots of metals around once I use NDF (less when I use cilantro), that

remain after chelation is done through urine. I don't know about

other chelators.

I think Phospholipid Exchange has EDTA. Linus ing thought EDTA

was a good chelator. ing is another guy I really trust (he was an

adict of Vit C too!!).

So I take loads of chlorella, but chlorella is used as an adjunct,

not the main chelator.

I swear, through my experience, that chlorella taken in loads did

help me on reducing metal poisoning symptoms (palpitations, high

blood pressure, bloating, stomach pains, chest pressure, brain fog,

air hunger). Chlorella and andrographis are the two main plants I

swear that helped me immensely in my lyme journey.

But if somebody has a better alternative, I would love to hear!

I wonder how do people feel when they chelate with DMPS or DMSA, if

you feel that the metals it mobilized in each dose do go out without

leaving floating metals hours after?? And if there are still floating

metals after, what is the treatment to soften symptoms?

Sorry if the questions seem too simple, I'm really an ignorant in the

subject.

Selma

>

> Hi Molly, It took me 2 1/2 months to get all my amalgams removed,

as

> per advice from my dentist (I mentioned him in a previous e-mail).

He

> doesn't advise a lot of amaglams removed at one time. Also he had a

> specific order in removing them. The ones that cause the most harm

> and destroy pathways he removed first. In his book he mentions his

> protocol, and what supplements he advises to take. If amalgams are

> not removed the correct way (with using oxygen, using a rubber dam,

> using high powered instruments that most dentists do not use, no

rugs

> in office, air filters everywhere and other precautions), a lot of

> mercury will enter the body and cause a lot of mercury toxic

symptoms

> for a long time afterwards. Also I have read that lyme bacteria

hides

> within mercury in the body, and when mercury is chelated, the lyme

> bacteria are stirred loose and this can cause more lyme symptoms. I

> believe in the long run having amalgams removed should help. My

> daugher had her amalgams removed by the same dentist that removed

> mine, and she felt flu like symptoms just a couple of days after

each

> removal session, but these symptoms did not last long and went

away.

> According to Dr. Cutler, an expert on chelation, chlorella

has

> been known to cause more problems because it is a single thiol,

which

> means it is not strong enough to chelate mercury out of the body.

It

> just redistributes it (picks it up and drops it, not strong enough

to

> hold it). A product that has 2 thiols such as ALA, DMSA, or DMPS is

a

> strong chelate that can hang on to mercury and thus carry it out of

> the body. V

>

[Guest guest]

Selma,

I tried a very small dose of DMSA (10-20mg every 4 hours for 36

hours, usual dose is 500mg!).

It was a provocation test, and I did release mercury in my urine.

I was O.K. while I took it, but got very sick when I stopped. I was

anxious and had more insomnia for a month afterwards.

Apparently, I dropped the mercury and moved it to my brain.

I wouldn't do that again unless I was sure I could get entirely rid

of the loosened mercury.

Perhaps chlorella would do that. I've started the chlorella alone,

and I'm hoping to move in a better direction.

>

> Hi V,

>

> You were much luckier than I to have found a good dentist. I didn't

> look too much (as I was not a real believer on the toxicity of

> mercury) and even if I had looked, I don't think I was going to be

> able to afford the treatment you received.

>

> Glad to hear you didn't suffer any side effects from removals. I

did.

> I only had a rubber protection, that was all. And chlorella.

>

> As for chelation protocols, there's unfortunately no single

protocol

> accepted by all. More or less like lyme protocols. Glad you shared

> your experience so that others may profit from different protocols.

>

> How do you find it helped your lyme disease and your daughters? HOw

> long did you chelate? Are you still on it?

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi V,

> >

> > You were much luckier than I to have found a good dentist. I didn't

> > look too much (as I was not a real believer on the toxicity of

> > mercury) and even if I had looked, I don't think I was going to be

> > able to afford the treatment you received.

> >

> > Glad to hear you didn't suffer any side effects from removals. I

> did.

> > I only had a rubber protection, that was all. And chlorella.

> >

> > As for chelation protocols, there's unfortunately no single

> protocol

> > accepted by all. More or less like lyme protocols. Glad you shared

> > your experience so that others may profit from different protocols.

> >

> > How do you find it helped your lyme disease and your daughters? HOw

> > long did you chelate? Are you still on it?

> >

>