Re: Max dosages of core protocol - how long?

[Guest guest]

Thanks !

Much appreciated!

Ann

In a message dated 12/24/06 6:47:16 PM, j_genser@... writes:

> Hi Ann,

> I think this is a very appropriate question to ask and I will ask to

> clarify after the

> holidays are over. You don't need to post again on PT. I will post here with

> his update and

> will update your original question to him on PT as well.

> Thanks for catching this discrepancy,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann,

I think this is a very appropriate question to ask and I will ask to

clarify after the

holidays are over. You don't need to post again on PT. I will post here with his

update and

will update your original question to him on PT as well.

Thanks for catching this discrepancy,

>

> Hi all,

>

> In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core protocol, in

> dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least 60 days "

> or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max dosages for

> over two months.

>

> In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you protocol, "

> he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

> interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he says in

the

> book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on Planet

> Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to someone

else…).

>

> Does anyone have any insights on this?

>

> Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two months? If so,

> how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

> increased?

>

> Thanks.

> Ann

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In the beginning, because of cost, I was hoping that I only had to do it two or

three months at max dosage, however, after about 4 months I cut it in half and

most of the symptoms came back so brought it right back up to max. I don't

remember how long exactly I was at maximum. I have been at about 3/4 of maximum

for about 2 or 3 months now. And I have been on the herbs for about 13 months

now.

MY maximum was NEVER at 4 times a day, but rather 4 capsules, 3 times a day.

HOWEVER, I am NOT talking just the core protocol. In addition to the core

protocol of Andro, Resveratrol, and Cats Claw; I also take Devils Claw,

Sarsaparilla, Milk THistle, Stephania Root, Red Root, Periwinkle, Schisandra

Berry, Nettle, C-Salts, B Complex, Vitamin A, Vitamin E. I am now taking Coptis

instead of Andrographis. I have also taken Garlic, Oregano, Olive Leaf,

Siberian Ginseng, Artemisinin, Artemisia annua, and others.

Definitely much more than 60 days. I personally don't think 60 days will do

it, unless maybe you were just bit. JWF on the LymeNet group and his wife were

on herbs only for 2 years and 3 months if I remember right. It was not Buhner's

protocol, but some herbs were the same.

Hope this helps.

Jim.

###

Grpinfo@... wrote:

Hi all,

In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core protocol, in

dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least 60 days "

or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max dosages for

over two months.

In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you protocol, "

he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he says in the

book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on Planet

Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to someone

else…).

Does anyone have any insights on this?

Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two months? If so,

how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

increased?

Thanks.

Ann

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jim,

I was doing *Buhner's* max dosage (4 caps, 4 times a day), of the cp for

close to 4 months.

I've been thinking maybe I shouldn't have been doing max of the andrographis

that long, and wondering if it was causing my blood pressure to go too low

(for me) and making the heart skipping worse.

Since andro inhibits progesterone production, and women get Lyme flares

anyway along with their monthly cycles, maybe we women have to be a bit more

careful with the andro than you guys.

Either way, I'm lowering the andro for now and adjusting the others herbals

(and my other natural meds) as I feel appropriate at the time.

Where did you find info on Coptis? (wondering why you think it's a good

substitute for andro)

Ann

In a message dated 12/25/06 1:34:50 AM, jbbigrod@... writes:

> In the beginning, because of cost, I was hoping that I only had to do it

> two or three months at max dosage, however, after about 4 months I cut it in

> half and most of the symptoms came back so brought it right back up to max. I

> don't remember how long exactly I was at maximum. I have been at about 3/4 of

> maximum for about 2 or 3 months now. And I have been on the herbs for about

> 13 months now.

>

> MY maximum was NEVER at 4 times a day, but rather 4 capsules, 3 times a day.

> HOWEVER, I am NOT talking just the core protocol. In addition to the core

> protocol of Andro, Resveratrol, and Cats Claw; I also take Devils Claw,

> Sarsaparilla, Milk THistle, Stephania Root, Red Root, Periwinkle, Schisandra

Berry,

> Nettle, C-Salts, B Complex, Vitamin A, Vitamin E. I am now taking Coptis

> instead of Andrographis. I have also taken Garlic, Oregano, Olive Leaf,

Siberian

> Ginseng, Artemisinin, Artemisia annua, and others.

>

> Definitely much more than 60 days. I personally don't think 60 days will do

> it, unless maybe you were just bit. JWF on the LymeNet group and his wife

> were on herbs only for 2 years and 3 months if I remember right. It was not

> Buhner's protocol, but some herbs were the same.

>

> Hope this helps.

> Jim.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann,

I'm glad will post the question to , I can see where

there is confusion.

But I recollect (I couldn't find it right now) somewhere in the book,

says 60 days minimum and 18 months for Chronic Lyme.

Anyone else remember that?

ellen

>

> Hi all,

>

> In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core

protocol, in

> dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least

60 days "

> or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max

dosages for

> over two months.

>

> In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you

protocol, "

> he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

> interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he

says in the

> book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on

Planet

> Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to

someone else…).

>

> Does anyone have any insights on this?

>

> Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two

months? If so,

> how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

> increased?

>

> Thanks.

> Ann

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core

> protocol, in

> > dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least

> 60 days "

> > or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max

> dosages for

> > over two months.

> >

> > In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you

> protocol, "

> > he says the final high dose range should only last for two months.

If I

> > interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he

> says in the

> > book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on

> Planet

> > Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to

> someone else…).

> >

> > Does anyone have any insights on this?

> >

> > Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two

> months? If so,

> > how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that

have

> > increased?

> >

> > Thanks.

> > Ann

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You can Google Coptis on the net. I first heard about it on the LymeNet group.

I felt I needed something that would work good and be a change of pace for

" getting " to the Ketes.

Coptis is a VERY powerful herb. Much more powerful than Andrographis. So you

must take less, and ramp up much slower. I didn't understand this at first and

got myself into trouble. But I am doing fine now. I have ramped up to 2 " 0 "

capsules, 3 times a day.

Jim.

###

Grpinfo@... wrote:

Thanks Jim,

I was doing *Buhner's* max dosage (4 caps, 4 times a day), of the cp for

close to 4 months.

I've been thinking maybe I shouldn't have been doing max of the andrographis

that long, and wondering if it was causing my blood pressure to go too low

(for me) and making the heart skipping worse.

Since andro inhibits progesterone production, and women get Lyme flares

anyway along with their monthly cycles, maybe we women have to be a bit more

careful with the andro than you guys.

Either way, I'm lowering the andro for now and adjusting the others herbals

(and my other natural meds) as I feel appropriate at the time.

Where did you find info on Coptis? (wondering why you think it's a good

substitute for andro)

Ann

In a message dated 12/25/06 1:34:50 AM, jbbigrod@... writes:

> In the beginning, because of cost, I was hoping that I only had to do it

> two or three months at max dosage, however, after about 4 months I cut it in

> half and most of the symptoms came back so brought it right back up to max. I

> don't remember how long exactly I was at maximum. I have been at about 3/4 of

> maximum for about 2 or 3 months now. And I have been on the herbs for about

> 13 months now.

>

> MY maximum was NEVER at 4 times a day, but rather 4 capsules, 3 times a day.

> HOWEVER, I am NOT talking just the core protocol. In addition to the core

> protocol of Andro, Resveratrol, and Cats Claw; I also take Devils Claw,

> Sarsaparilla, Milk THistle, Stephania Root, Red Root, Periwinkle, Schisandra

Berry,

> Nettle, C-Salts, B Complex, Vitamin A, Vitamin E. I am now taking Coptis

> instead of Andrographis. I have also taken Garlic, Oregano, Olive Leaf,

Siberian

> Ginseng, Artemisinin, Artemisia annua, and others.

>

> Definitely much more than 60 days. I personally don't think 60 days will do

> it, unless maybe you were just bit. JWF on the LymeNet group and his wife

> were on herbs only for 2 years and 3 months if I remember right. It was not

> Buhner's protocol, but some herbs were the same.

>

> Hope this helps.

> Jim.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't remember the 18 months, but he mentions the 60 days more than once, as a

MINIMUM. With the protocol to go 8 to 12 months. But for some of us, I don't

think that is enough either.

Jim.

###

rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...> wrote:

Hi Ann,

I'm glad will post the question to , I can see where

there is confusion.

But I recollect (I couldn't find it right now) somewhere in the book,

says 60 days minimum and 18 months for Chronic Lyme.

Anyone else remember that?

ellen

>

> Hi all,

>

> In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core

protocol, in

> dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least

60 days "

> or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max

dosages for

> over two months.

>

> In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you

protocol, "

> he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

> interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he

says in the

> book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on

Planet

> Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to

someone else…).

>

> Does anyone have any insights on this?

>

> Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two

months? If so,

> how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

> increased?

>

> Thanks.

> Ann

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you !!!!

That all makes sense. As it's been said many times, we're all different.

I was just wondering on the way home from my naturopath's if Buhner had

gotten back to you on this yet. Great timing!

Ann

In a message dated 1/12/07 4:26:21 PM, j_genser@... writes:

>

> Hi Ann, and all -

> Here is 's response to this issue:

>

> By this I mean that the protocol should be followed up to the max dose for

> two months or

> so, then the doses can be lowered somewhat to a more maintenance dose. What

> that dose

> is will vary from person to person. some may need to stay on 3 capsules 3x a

> day for the

> rest of the year, some may be able to go lower, some may need to stay higher

> for a bit.

> The point is to slowly raise up to the high dose in order to hit the

> bacteria with a high

> dose, which should impact them quite a bit. The lower dosing will then be

> able to take

> care of them.

>

> In any event, even at lower doses most or all of the lyme symptoms should

> begin to

> resolve because of the immune enhancing actions of some of the herbs and

> also the

> actions of the knotweed in counteracting the inflammation dynamics of the

> spirochetes. I

> know this is a bit vague is a way, but as I have said often, the protocol

> needs to be

> adjusted for each person's response to it. Some people who have contacted me

> can only

> tolerate 1 cap 3x daily of the andrographis for instance and that seems to

> work well for

> them while others need the higher dose. hope this helps,

> stephen

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core protocol,

> in

> > dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least 60

> days "

> > or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max dosages

> for

> > over two months.

> >

> > In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you

> protocol, "

> > he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

> > interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he says

> in the

> > book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on

> Planet

> > Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to someone

> elseD+$¢®).

> >

> > Does anyone have any insights on this?

> >

> > Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two months? If

> so,

> > how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

> > increased?

> >

> > Thanks.

> > Ann

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann, and all -

Here is 's response to this issue:

By this I mean that the protocol should be followed up to the max dose for two

months or

so, then the doses can be lowered somewhat to a more maintenance dose. What that

dose

is will vary from person to person. some may need to stay on 3 capsules 3x a day

for the

rest of the year, some may be able to go lower, some may need to stay higher for

a bit.

The point is to slowly raise up to the high dose in order to hit the bacteria

with a high

dose, which should impact them quite a bit. The lower dosing will then be able

to take

care of them.

In any event, even at lower doses most or all of the lyme symptoms should begin

to

resolve because of the immune enhancing actions of some of the herbs and also

the

actions of the knotweed in counteracting the inflammation dynamics of the

spirochetes. I

know this is a bit vague is a way, but as I have said often, the protocol needs

to be

adjusted for each person's response to it. Some people who have contacted me can

only

tolerate 1 cap 3x daily of the andrographis for instance and that seems to work

well for

them while others need the higher dose. hope this helps,

stephen

>

> Hi all,

>

> In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core protocol, in

> dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least 60 days "

> or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max dosages for

> over two months.

>

> In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you protocol, "

> he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

> interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he says in

the

> book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on Planet

> Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to someone

else…).

>

> Does anyone have any insights on this?

>

> Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two months? If so,

> how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

> increased?

>

> Thanks.

> Ann

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been on Buhner's PRotocol, plus much of the extended for over 13 months

now. I never went up to his 4 of each, 4 times a day. I went to 4 of each, 3

times a day, as I take them ALL with my meals, and did not want to get any

fatter with 4 meals a day.

I stayed on the 4/3 for at least 5 or 6 months, probably longer. The last

couple of months, I am on a 3/3 for most, except Sarsaparilla which is still 4/3

and the Devil's Claw which is still at my max of 4/2 times a day. I do not take

it late at night because of the gas it causes and is detrimental to my ostomy

system.

I plan to cut back to a 3/2 next week and see what happens. If that doesn't

work too well, I may try a 2/3 regimen instead and see how it goes on that.

Remember I am not on Andrographis right now, but Coptis instead, at only 2/3, so

not sure what if any changes I will make in that.

I will probably cut the Sarsaparilla from 4/2 down to 3/2 next week. All

others that I take on the 1/3 regimen, will go to 1 pill, 2 times a day,

regimen.

Jim

###

Grpinfo@... wrote:

Thank you !!!!

That all makes sense. As it's been said many times, we're all different.

I was just wondering on the way home from my naturopath's if Buhner had

gotten back to you on this yet. Great timing!

Ann

In a message dated 1/12/07 4:26:21 PM, j_genser@... writes:

>

> Hi Ann, and all -

> Here is 's response to this issue:

>

> By this I mean that the protocol should be followed up to the max dose for

> two months or

> so, then the doses can be lowered somewhat to a more maintenance dose. What

> that dose

> is will vary from person to person. some may need to stay on 3 capsules 3x a

> day for the

> rest of the year, some may be able to go lower, some may need to stay higher

> for a bit.

> The point is to slowly raise up to the high dose in order to hit the

> bacteria with a high

> dose, which should impact them quite a bit. The lower dosing will then be

> able to take

> care of them.

>

> In any event, even at lower doses most or all of the lyme symptoms should

> begin to

> resolve because of the immune enhancing actions of some of the herbs and

> also the

> actions of the knotweed in counteracting the inflammation dynamics of the

> spirochetes. I

> know this is a bit vague is a way, but as I have said often, the protocol

> needs to be

> adjusted for each person's response to it. Some people who have contacted me

> can only

> tolerate 1 cap 3x daily of the andrographis for instance and that seems to

> work well for

> them while others need the higher dose. hope this helps,

> stephen

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > In Healing Lyme, Buhner says about the herbs in the core protocol,

> in

> > dosage information sections for each, to take either for " at least 60

> days "

> > or " 60 days minimum. " I took this to mean it's okay to stay at max dosages

> for

> > over two months.

> >

> > In his Planet Thrive column, in the question about " Staying on you

> protocol, "

> > he says the final high dose range should only last for two months. If I

> > interpreted the book correctly, this seems to be contrary to what he says

> in the

> > book (, would this be an appropriate question for me to post on

> Planet

> > Thrive? - it seems weird to challenge him on an answer he gave to someone

> elseD+$¢®).

> >

> > Does anyone have any insights on this?

> >

> > Has anyone here stayed on the max dosages for longer than two months? If

> so,

> > how much longer and have you had any new symptoms or symptoms that have

> > increased?

> >

> > Thanks.

> > Ann

>

>