Re: To go to shots instead of Androgel?

[Guest guest]

My Test is now up to 637 after 3.5 months. What do think about going to

shots of TEST and HCG???

In a message dated 2/27/2010 10:17:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

pmgamer18@... writes:

Here is my take on this but I can't tell you what to do.

Endo's are not good Dr. for low T they just don't know anything about it.

Only what the drug reps tell them. I say this because you don't lower ones

gel at a levels of 238 this is nuts your still to dam low you need your

levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for TT and FT and you need not

to test Estrogen this is use less all you need to test is Estradiol E2 and

you need it between 20 to 30 pg/ml gaging by how good your night time and

morning wood is.

You don't lower ones dose to control E2 and spreading gels over a larger

area is how it works best. If you did your labs after you put on the gel and

any was on the area they take blood from your going to get a higher number

on your labs.

I tell men take a shower in the morning wash off the old gel go do your

labs then put on the gel. If you can't do this put on the gel keeping any off

your area they take the blood from and do your labs 6 hrs later. So you

don't spike up your labs I don't feel your labs are a true 637 going up 1.25

grams.

Cortisol blood test if down fasting in the morning by 8 to 9am 17.4 is

good if this was later in the day your to high.

The Age Management Center I feel knows a lot more about this then your

Endo.

And most of us do HCG go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.And most of

us do HCG go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.<WBR>com and read TRT: A

Recipe for success and his HCG Update. He is the bes

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: _gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...)

<_gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...) >

> Subject: To go to shots instead of Androgel?

> _ @hypogonadismhyp_

(mailto: )

> Cc: _gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> I have been on Androgel 5

> grams. since Nov 11, 2009,

> (testosterone was

> 238) so for about 3.5 months.

>

> I went up to 6.25 g for about 2 weeks but my

> estrogen was (189) and

> estradiol was 38. Endo said to drop back to only 5

> grams of Androgel. Test. is

> up to 637'

>

> Estrogen now at 128 and estradiol now at 25.

>

> My PSA has been in the 0.7 range now it is 1.1

> SHOULD I BE CONCERNED

> WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

>

> Cortisiol (blood) at 17.4

>

> I just met with an Age management center. They took

> labs (a lot that my

> Dr did not take) like Estradiol, DHEA sulfate, cortisol,

> (saliva Cortisol)

> TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen, FSH, LH, PSA

> total,Hemoglobin A1c.

>

> They stated that the larger area I spreed the gel the

> more potential for

> increased estrogen levels.

>

> They suggest that I need to get my cortisol levels lower

> and work on

> adrenal fatigue.

>

> They want me to switch to weekly shots Testosterone

> Enanthate and Chronic

> Gonadotropin (HCG).

>

> Any comments on all of this??

>

>

> Should I switch to the shots???

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ ---- ---- -

>

> Groups Links

>

>

> _ - hypogonadismhyp_

(mailto: -fullfeatured )

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I did my labs at 06:30 AM and then went home showered and then put on the

Androgel. I am physically fit i do weight training and cardio 4 times

weekly.

So do you think that the shots have more benefits then the gels?????

In a message dated 2/27/2010 1:04:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

pmgamer18@... writes:

Did you do the test the right way not putting the gel and doing labs first.

I don't see men get levels this high on that low dose. If you put on the

gel and do labs your going to spike up your labs.

Yes men get better levels on shots.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: __gviceman77@_gvicem_ (mailto:_gviceman77@...) _

> (mailto:_gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...) )

>

> <__gviceman77@_gvicem_ (mailto:_gviceman77@...) _

> (mailto:_gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...) )

> >

> > Subject: To go to shots instead

> of Androgel?

> > _ @ _hypogonadis

> (mailto:_ @hypogonadismhyp_

(mailto: ) )

>

> > Cc: __gviceman77@_gvicem_ (mailto:_gviceman77@...) _

> (mailto:_gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...) )

>

> > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> > I have been on Androgel 5

> > grams. since Nov 11,

> 2009,

> > (testosterone was

> > 238) so for about 3.5 months.

> >

> > I went up to 6.25 g for about 2 weeks but my

> > estrogen was (189) and

> > estradiol was 38. Endo said to drop back

> to only 5

> > grams of Androgel. Test. is

> > up to 637'

> >

> > Estrogen now at 128 and estradiol now at 25.

> >

> > My PSA has been in the 0.7 range now it is

> 1.1

> > SHOULD I BE CONCERNED

> > WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

> >

> > Cortisiol (blood) at 17.4

> >

> > I just met with an Age management center.

> They took

> > labs (a lot that my

> > Dr did not take) like Estradiol, DHEA sulfate,

> cortisol,

> > (saliva Cortisol)

> > TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen, FSH, LH, PSA

> > total,Hemoglobin A1c.

> >

> > They stated that the larger area I spreed the

> gel the

> > more potential for

> > increased estrogen levels.

> >

> > They suggest that I need to get my cortisol

> levels lower

> > and work on

> > adrenal fatigue.

> >

> > They want me to switch to weekly shots

> Testosterone

> > Enanthate and Chronic

> > Gonadotropin (HCG).

> >

> > Any comments on all of this??

> >

> >

> > Should I switch to the shots???

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- -

> >

> > Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> _ -_ -_hypogonadism

>

> (mailto:_ - hypogonadismhyp_

(mailto: -fullfeatured ) )

>

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ ---- ---- -

>

> Groups Links

>

>

> _ - hypogonadismhyp_

(mailto: -fullfeatured )

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is my take on this but I can't tell you what to do.

Endo's are not good Dr. for low T they just don't know anything about it. Only

what the drug reps tell them. I say this because you don't lower ones gel at a

levels of 238 this is nuts your still to dam low you need your levels up into

the upper 1/3 of your labs range for TT and FT and you need not to test Estrogen

this is use less all you need to test is Estradiol E2 and you need it between 20

to 30 pg/ml gaging by how good your night time and morning wood is.

You don't lower ones dose to control E2 and spreading gels over a larger area is

how it works best. If you did your labs after you put on the gel and any was on

the area they take blood from your going to get a higher number on your labs.

I tell men take a shower in the morning wash off the old gel go do your labs

then put on the gel. If you can't do this put on the gel keeping any off your

area they take the blood from and do your labs 6 hrs later. So you don't spike

up your labs I don't feel your labs are a true 637 going up 1.25 grams.

Cortisol blood test if down fasting in the morning by 8 to 9am 17.4 is good if

this was later in the day your to high.

The Age Management Center I feel knows a lot more about this then your Endo.

And most of us do HCG go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT:

A Recipe for success and his HCG Update. He is the best there is for this and

puts this out the free for you and your Dr.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: gviceman77@... <gviceman77@...>

> Subject: To go to shots instead of Androgel?

>

> Cc: gviceman77@...

> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> I have been on Androgel 5

> grams.   since Nov 11,  2009,

> (testosterone was

> 238) so for about 3.5 months.

>

> I went up to 6.25 g for about 2 weeks but my

> estrogen  was (189) and

> estradiol was 38.  Endo said to drop back to only 5

> grams of  Androgel.  Test. is

> up to 637'

>

> Estrogen now at 128 and estradiol now at 25.

>

> My PSA has been in the 0.7 range now it is 1.1   

> SHOULD I BE CONCERNED

> WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

>

> Cortisiol (blood) at 17.4

>

> I just met with an Age management center.  They took

> labs  (a lot that my

> Dr did not take) like Estradiol, DHEA sulfate, cortisol,

> (saliva  Cortisol)

> TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen, FSH, LH, PSA

> total,Hemoglobin  A1c.

>

> They stated that the larger area I spreed the gel the

> more  potential for

> increased estrogen levels.

>

> They suggest that I need to get my cortisol levels lower

> and  work on

> adrenal fatigue.

>

> They want me to switch to weekly shots Testosterone

> Enanthate  and Chronic

> Gonadotropin (HCG).

>

> Any comments on all of this??

>

>

> Should I switch to the  shots???

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Did you do the test the right way not putting the gel and doing labs first. I

don't see men get levels this high on that low dose. If you put on the gel and

do labs your going to spike up your labs.

Yes men get better levels on shots.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: _gviceman77@..._

> (mailto:gviceman77@...) 

>

> <_gviceman77@..._

> (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> >

> >  Subject: To go to shots instead

> of Androgel?

> > _ @hypogonadismhyp_

> (mailto: )

>

> >  Cc: _gviceman77@..._

> (mailto:gviceman77@...)

>

> > Date:  Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> > I have been on Androgel 5

> >  grams.   since Nov 11, 

> 2009,

> > (testosterone was 

> > 238) so for about 3.5 months.

> >

> > I went up to 6.25 g  for about 2 weeks but my

> > estrogen  was (189) and

> >  estradiol was 38.  Endo said to drop back

> to only 5

> > grams  of  Androgel.  Test. is

> > up to 637'

> >

> >  Estrogen now at 128 and estradiol now at 25.

> >

> > My PSA has been  in the 0.7 range now it is

> 1.1   

> > SHOULD I BE CONCERNED 

> > WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

> >

> > Cortisiol (blood) at  17.4

> >

> > I just met with an Age management center. 

> They  took

> > labs  (a lot that my

> > Dr did not take) like  Estradiol, DHEA sulfate,

> cortisol,

> > (saliva  Cortisol)

> >  TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen, FSH, LH, PSA

> > total,Hemoglobin   A1c.

> >

> > They stated that the larger area I spreed the

> gel  the

> > more  potential for

> > increased estrogen  levels.

> >

> > They suggest that I need to get my cortisol

> levels  lower

> > and  work on

> > adrenal fatigue.

> >

> >  They want me to switch to weekly shots

> Testosterone

> > Enanthate   and Chronic

> > Gonadotropin (HCG).

> >

> > Any comments on all  of this??

> >

> >

> > Should I switch to the   shots???

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have  been

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >  ------------  ----  ----  -

> >

> >   Groups Links

> >

> >

> > 

>    _ - hypogonadismhyp_

>

> (mailto: -fullfeatured )

>

> > 

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response: I did not have the DHT tested. I am 51 in

pretty good physical condition.

In a message dated 2/27/2010 3:08:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kevinh@... writes:

It sounds to me that you are doing OK on a 1% gel and may benefit from a

dose up to 10gms. You don't mention your DHT level, but once you determine

that T-gel is effective for you, then VERY elevated DHT levels might be the

deciding factor to switch to a 10% compounded gel or switch to shots.

Aside from Total T levels, you need to look at bio-available T. If you

can't get to upper range levels of BAT on gels then that is another

consideration.

I don't see your age mentioned, but as we age our bodies tend to convert

more of our Testosterone to Estradiol. The higher we try to maintain T the

higher E2 may also go. Estradiol may have more of an impact on prostate

enlargement then DHT. The bottom line is that an AI (aromotsoe inhibiter) is a

likely consideration with whatever type of TRT you are using. I would not

give up on gels just yet but explore AI.

I definitely consider hCG and important addition to TRT, a must for me. In

addition to preserving the size and function of your balls, that are other

benefits. Start on that now so you may fine tune everything together.

Take a look at this interesting summary of TRT:

_http://www.tmuscle.http://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://_

(http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...terone_toolbox)

Best of luck,

>

> > From: _gviceman77@ From: _gviceman77@ From

> <_gviceman77@_gviceman77@<WBR>..._ (m_gvic>

> > Subject: To go to shots instead of Androgel?

> > _ @ _hypogon

> (mailto:_ @hypogonadismhyp_

(mailto: ) )

> > Cc: _gviceman77@ Cc: _gviceman77@<WBR>.. Cc:

> > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> > I have been on Androgel 5

> > grams. since Nov 11, 2009,

> > (testosterone was

> > 238) so for about 3.5 months.

> >

> > I went up to 6.25 g for about 2 weeks but my

> > estrogen was (189) and

> > estradiol was 38. Endo said to drop back to only 5

> > grams of Androgel. Test. is

> > up to 637'

> >

> > Estrogen now at 128 and estradiol now at 25.

> >

> > My PSA has been in the 0.7 range now it is 1.1

> > SHOULD I BE CONCERNED

> > WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

> >

> > Cortisiol (blood) at 17.4

> >

> > I just met with an Age management center. They took

> > labs (a lot that my

> > Dr did not take) like Estradiol, DHEA sulfate, cortisol,

> > (saliva Cortisol)

> > TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen, FSH, LH, PSA

> > total,Hemoglobin A1c.

> >

> > They stated that the larger area I spreed the gel the

> > more potential for

> > increased estrogen levels.

> >

> > They suggest that I need to get my cortisol levels lower

> > and work on

> > adrenal fatigue.

> >

> > They want me to switch to weekly shots Testosterone

> > Enanthate and Chronic

> > Gonadotropin (HCG).

> >

> > Any comments on all of this??

> >

> >

> > Should I switch to the shots???

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It sounds to me that you are doing OK on a 1% gel and may benefit from a dose up

to 10gms. You don't mention your DHT level, but once you determine that T-gel

is effective for you, then VERY elevated DHT levels might be the deciding factor

to switch to a 10% compounded gel or switch to shots.

Aside from Total T levels, you need to look at bio-available T. If you can't

get to upper range levels of BAT on gels then that is another consideration.

I don't see your age mentioned, but as we age our bodies tend to convert more of

our Testosterone to Estradiol. The higher we try to maintain T the higher E2

may also go. Estradiol may have more of an impact on prostate enlargement then

DHT. The bottom line is that an AI (aromotsoe inhibiter) is a likely

consideration with whatever type of TRT you are using. I would not give up on

gels just yet but explore AI.

I definitely consider hCG and important addition to TRT, a must for me. In

addition to preserving the size and function of your balls, that are other

benefits. Start on that now so you may fine tune everything together.

Take a look at this interesting summary of TRT:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...terone_toolbox

Best of luck,

>

> > From: _gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> <_gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...) >

> > Subject: To go to shots instead of Androgel?

> > _ @hypogonadismhyp_

> (mailto: )

> > Cc: _gviceman77@..._ (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> > I have been on Androgel 5

> > grams. since Nov 11, 2009,

> > (testosterone was

> > 238) so for about 3.5 months.

> >

> > I went up to 6.25 g for about 2 weeks but my

> > estrogen was (189) and

> > estradiol was 38. Endo said to drop back to only 5

> > grams of Androgel. Test. is

> > up to 637'

> >

> > Estrogen now at 128 and estradiol now at 25.

> >

> > My PSA has been in the 0.7 range now it is 1.1

> > SHOULD I BE CONCERNED

> > WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

> >

> > Cortisiol (blood) at 17.4

> >

> > I just met with an Age management center. They took

> > labs (a lot that my

> > Dr did not take) like Estradiol, DHEA sulfate, cortisol,

> > (saliva Cortisol)

> > TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen, FSH, LH, PSA

> > total,Hemoglobin A1c.

> >

> > They stated that the larger area I spreed the gel the

> > more potential for

> > increased estrogen levels.

> >

> > They suggest that I need to get my cortisol levels lower

> > and work on

> > adrenal fatigue.

> >

> > They want me to switch to weekly shots Testosterone

> > Enanthate and Chronic

> > Gonadotropin (HCG).

> >

> > Any comments on all of this??

> >

> >

> > Should I switch to the shots???

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- -

> >

> > Groups Links

> >

> >

> > _ - hypogonadismhyp_

> (mailto: -fullfeatured )

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is possible to get testosterone levels in the 600's with 5gms of a 1% gel,

just not seen often. On one tube (5gms) Testim I recorded T at 692 ng/dL (lab

range 241-827). 5 grams of a 1% gel contains 50 mg of T. On AVERAGE, 10% is

absorbed.... meaning 5 mg. Apparently some people absorb a bit better, 7 - 10

mg absorption is more optimal for many.

>

> My Test is now up to 637 after 3.5 months. What do think about going to

> shots of TEST and HCG???

[Guest guest]

Ok then what I am saying might have happened to you the gel on you from the day

before if it's on the spot where they stick the needle in to take your blood

will spike up your levels even if you put it one 24 hrs. ago.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: __gviceman77@_gvicem_ (mailto:_gviceman77@...)

> _

> >  (mailto:_gviceman77@..._

> (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> )

> > 

> > <__gviceman77@_gvicem_ (mailto:_gviceman77@...)

> _

> >  (mailto:_gviceman77@..._

> (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> )

> >  >

> > >  Subject: To go to shots

> instead

> >  of Androgel?

> > > _ @ _hypogonadis

> >  (mailto:_ @hypogonadismhyp_

> (mailto: )

> )

> > 

> > >  Cc: __gviceman77@_gvicem_ (mailto:_gviceman77@...)

> _

> >  (mailto:_gviceman77@..._

> (mailto:gviceman77@...)

> )

> > 

> > > Date:  Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:59 AM

> > > I  have been on Androgel 5

> > >  grams.   since Nov  11,

>

> > 2009,

> > > (testosterone was 

> > >  238) so for about 3.5 months.

> > >

> > > I went up to 6.25  g  for about 2 weeks

> but my

> > > estrogen  was (189) and 

> > >  estradiol was 38.  Endo said to drop

> back

> > to  only 5

> > > grams  of  Androgel.  Test. is

> >  > up to 637'

> > >

> > >  Estrogen now at 128 and  estradiol now

> at 25.

> > >

> > > My PSA has been  in the  0.7 range now

> it is

> > 1.1   

> > > SHOULD I BE  CONCERNED 

> > > WITH A PSA 50% HIGHER??

> > >

> >  > Cortisiol (blood) at  17.4

> > >

> > > I just met  with an Age management center.

> > They  took

> > >  labs  (a lot that my

> > > Dr did not take) like  Estradiol,  DHEA

> sulfate,

> > cortisol,

> > > (saliva  Cortisol)

> >  >  TSH, T3 free, T3 total, Estrogen,

> FSH, LH, PSA

> > >  total,Hemoglobin   A1c.

> > >

> > > They stated  that the larger area I spreed

> the

> > gel  the

> > >  more  potential for

> > > increased estrogen   levels.

> > >

> > > They suggest that I need to get my 

> cortisol

> > levels  lower

> > > and  work on

> >  > adrenal fatigue.

> > >

> > >  They want me to switch  to weekly

> shots

> > Testosterone

> > >  Enanthate   and Chronic

> > > Gonadotropin (HCG). 

> > >

> > > Any comments on all  of this??

> > > 

> > >

> > > Should I switch to 

> the   shots???

> > >

> > >

> > >  [Non-text portions of this message

> have  been

> > removed]

> >  >

> > >

> > >

> > >  ------------   ---- 

> ----  -

> > >

> > >   Groups  Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >  _ -_ -_hypogonadism

> > 

> > (mailto:_ - hypogonadismhyp_

> (mailto: -fullfeatured )

> )

> > 

> > > 

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > 

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been 

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >  ------------  ----  ----  -

> >

> >   Groups Links

> >

> >

> > 

>    _ - hypogonadismhyp_

>

> (mailto: -fullfeatured )

>

> > 

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is that link again, take 2:

<http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bod\

ybuilding_supplements/the_testosterone_toolbox>

>

> Thank you for your response: I did not have the DHT tested. I am 51 in

> pretty good physical condition.

>

[Guest guest]

51 - Yep - get E2 Sensitive test. Testosterone drops as E2 elevates; reducing

E2 to acceptable male levels improves T levels, your 'maleness', and your

general health.

>

> Thank you for your response: I did not have the DHT tested. I am 51 in

> pretty good physical condition.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well it looks like the guys selling that supplement have been reading here and

at Dr. 's forum the are saying word for word what we have been saying for

yrs. Bottom line is Supplements to bring up Testosterone levels in men with

Hypogonadism don't help much.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <kevinh@...>

> Subject: Re: To go to shots instead of Androgel?

>

> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 7:19 PM

> Here is that link again, take 2:

>

<http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bod\

ybuilding_supplements/the_testosterone_toolbox>

>

>

> >

> > Thank you for your response:  I did not have the

> DHT tested.  I  am 51 in

> > pretty good physical condition.

> > 

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:00:54 EST, you wrote:

>

>I did my labs at 06:30 AM and then went home showered and then put on the

>Androgel. I am physically fit i do weight training and cardio 4 times

>weekly.

>

>

>So do you think that the shots have more benefits then the gels?????

Your total T and E2 numbers look very good. Why mess with success?

_________

" Two novels can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord

of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often

engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading

to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to

deal with the real world. The other involves orcs. "