Re: Filter Needles?... Ampules vs Vials

[Guest guest]

Spanky:

Do you know the difference between an ampule and vial?

Have you ever used an ampule? They are sealed glass, and you open them by

breaking them.

Do you think you can open an ampule every week and not have any glass particles

fall into the testosterone?

If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

Filter needles are cheap.

Randy Hoops

>

> I have used multi-dose vials for ED for years. Sometimes it would take me

> months to go through a vial. I never had a problem. I followed the following

> pecautions:

>

> I store the vial inside of a sealed pill bottle.

> Wash my hands before handling the pill bottle or the vial.

> Wipe any surface that I put the bottle or the vial down on, with alcohol.

> Wipe the rubber top of the vial before inserting the syringe.

> Wipe the rubber top of the vial before putting it away in its pill bottle.

> Store the pill bottle in a clean place.

>

> I've been doing this for more than ten years, with no problems.

>

[Guest guest]

I have not used an ampule. I appreciate the information on filter needles.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:49 PM, k0cm <Randy@...> wrote:

>

>

> Spanky:

>

> Do you know the difference between an ampule and vial?

>

> Have you ever used an ampule? They are sealed glass, and you open them by

> breaking them.

>

> Do you think you can open an ampule every week and not have any glass

> particles fall into the testosterone?

>

> If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

>

> Filter needles are cheap.

>

> Randy Hoops

>

>

> >

> > I have used multi-dose vials for ED for years. Sometimes it would take me

> > months to go through a vial. I never had a problem. I followed the

> following

> > pecautions:

> >

> > I store the vial inside of a sealed pill bottle.

> > Wash my hands before handling the pill bottle or the vial.

> > Wipe any surface that I put the bottle or the vial down on, with alcohol.

> > Wipe the rubber top of the vial before inserting the syringe.

> > Wipe the rubber top of the vial before putting it away in its pill

> bottle.

> > Store the pill bottle in a clean place.

> >

> > I've been doing this for more than ten years, with no problems.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening post

question.

Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must be,

because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

Do those members use filter needles???

> > >

> > > I have used multi-dose vials for ED for years. Sometimes it would take me

> > > months to go through a vial. I never had a problem. I followed the

> > following

> > > pecautions:

> > >

> > > I store the vial inside of a sealed pill bottle.

> > > Wash my hands before handling the pill bottle or the vial.

> > > Wipe any surface that I put the bottle or the vial down on, with alcohol.

> > > Wipe the rubber top of the vial before inserting the syringe.

> > > Wipe the rubber top of the vial before putting it away in its pill

> > bottle.

> > > Store the pill bottle in a clean place.

> > >

> > > I've been doing this for more than ten years, with no problems.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

What? What are your bases for that statement???

Then I would imagine that people taking shots everyday from glass ampoules,

would have turned into a new glass super hero.

> >

> > I have used multi-dose vials for ED for years. Sometimes it would take me

> > months to go through a vial. I never had a problem. I followed the following

> > pecautions:

> >

> > I store the vial inside of a sealed pill bottle.

> > Wash my hands before handling the pill bottle or the vial.

> > Wipe any surface that I put the bottle or the vial down on, with alcohol.

> > Wipe the rubber top of the vial before inserting the syringe.

> > Wipe the rubber top of the vial before putting it away in its pill bottle.

> > Store the pill bottle in a clean place.

> >

> > I've been doing this for more than ten years, with no problems.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think you've got your answer..... no one else is evidently using ampules.

There seems to have been a bit of confusion about the difference between an

amupule and a vial.

A vial has a rubber cap that the needle can penetrate. An ampule is a sealed

glass vessel that must be broken open by snapping off the top.

I'm thinking you don't live in the USA, if you get your T in ampules.

You can buy filter needles, BD 305200 for $47 / hundred from Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018QS0DO/ref=oss_product

Presumably you will be taking testosterone shots several times a month for the

rest of your life. How many times do you think you could draw from an ampule

without getting small glass particles in it? Inevitably some glass will get

through and be injected into your body. Once injected, the glass is there

forever.

Randy Hoops

>

> So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening post

question.

>

> Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must be,

because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> Do those members use filter needles???

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a link to an FDA paper on glass particles in ampules. Different

drug, but I would think that the same principles apply:

http://www.fda.gov.tw/files/publish_periodical/P010-228.pdf

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:23 AM, k0cm <Randy@...> wrote:

>

>

> I think you've got your answer..... no one else is evidently using ampules.

> There seems to have been a bit of confusion about the difference between an

> amupule and a vial.

>

> A vial has a rubber cap that the needle can penetrate. An ampule is a

> sealed glass vessel that must be broken open by snapping off the top.

>

> I'm thinking you don't live in the USA, if you get your T in ampules.

>

> You can buy filter needles, BD 305200 for $47 / hundred from Amazon.com

>

> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018QS0DO/ref=oss_product

>

> Presumably you will be taking testosterone shots several times a month for

> the rest of your life. How many times do you think you could draw from an

> ampule without getting small glass particles in it? Inevitably some glass

> will get through and be injected into your body. Once injected, the glass is

> there forever.

>

> Randy Hoops

>

>

> >

> > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening

> post question.

> >

> > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must

> be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> > Do those members use filter needles???

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" In the injection samples of glass ampoules,

the number of particles with a diameter of 1.3- < 5 ìm

was 252.9/mL, that of particles with a diameter of 5- <

10 ìm was 12.5/mL, that of particles with a diameter

of 10- < 50 ìm was 3.2/mL, and that of particles with

a diameter of 50- < 100 ìm was 0.09/mL. "

I find this interesting, because all of the filter needles which I see in a

quick google search have a 5 um orifice, meaning that the majority of the

glass particles would not be filtered, but the largest particles would be.

Is the assumption that the smaller particles do not pose a risk?

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Spanky <spankysd@...> wrote:

> Here is a link to an FDA paper on glass particles in ampules. Different

> drug, but I would think that the same principles apply:

>

> http://www.fda.gov.tw/files/publish_periodical/P010-228.pdf

>

>

> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:23 AM, k0cm <Randy@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> I think you've got your answer..... no one else is evidently using

>> ampules. There seems to have been a bit of confusion about the difference

>> between an amupule and a vial.

>>

>> A vial has a rubber cap that the needle can penetrate. An ampule is a

>> sealed glass vessel that must be broken open by snapping off the top.

>>

>> I'm thinking you don't live in the USA, if you get your T in ampules.

>>

>> You can buy filter needles, BD 305200 for $47 / hundred from Amazon.com

>>

>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018QS0DO/ref=oss_product

>>

>> Presumably you will be taking testosterone shots several times a month for

>> the rest of your life. How many times do you think you could draw from an

>> ampule without getting small glass particles in it? Inevitably some glass

>> will get through and be injected into your body. Once injected, the glass is

>> there forever.

>>

>> Randy Hoops

>>

>>

>> >

>> > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening

>> post question.

>> >

>> > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must

>> be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

>> > Do those members use filter needles???

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well there are only a few ways a substance can be excreted from the body. In

urine, feces, sweat, or maybe vomiting or sneezing.

If you've got glass particles in muscle the only way I can think they could be

eliminated is through circulatory blood. I don't even want to think about glass

particles in the blood stream. That takes them to the brain, lungs and kidneys

where they could do even more damage.

Most likely the body's defenses will find the glass particles, and encapsulate

them in something like a cyst. Yep, they probably won't kill you, but who wants

glass particles in their butt?

regards,

Randy

>

> > If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

>

> What? What are your bases for that statement???

> Then I would imagine that people taking shots everyday from glass ampoules,

would have turned into a new glass super hero.

>

[Guest guest]

Well, in europe is not easy to buy testosterone multi-dose vials. At least I

haven't found where.

I buy testosterone depot ampoules 250mg. They come in 1ml of oil.

I take 50mg every 3 days, so it lasts for 5 shots. Each shot is 0.20ml.

I saw on the internet the vials you speak about. They have 250mg of Testosterone

and they come in 10ml. Are these the ones you use?

That means the concentration of Testosterone per oil is 10 times smaller than

the ampoules I use.

Is this correct?

> >

> > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening post

question.

> >

> > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must be,

because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> > Do those members use filter needles???

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Where in Europe do you live?

The Testosterone Cypionate I have always used is 200 mg / mL.

I used to get it in 10 mL vials, but recently they have been giving me 1 mL

vials. I much prefer the 10 mL vials, but that's what I end up with. I just

got an order from Walgreen's mail that had 7 one mL vials instead of one 10 mL.

I don't know why they do this.

If you can somehow obtain filter needles, you would only need 2 a month. A box

of 100 would last 4 years.

You need to remove the filter needle and replace it with a regular needle before

injecting into the vial. I'm pretty sure Becton-Dickinson (BD) products are

availalbe worldwide. BD # 305200.

Best Wishes,

Randy

> > >

> > > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening post

question.

> > >

> > > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must

be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> > > Do those members use filter needles???

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks!

I live in Austria.

Actually, I guess I would need filter needles for handling HCG as well.

I get HCG glass ampoules of 5000ui. Then I order bacteriostatic water and an

empty multi-dose ampoule and I mix with as much water as I want, and keep it in

the fridge.

I take 2 injections per week of 250mg each. So per month, I take about 2000ui.

Since the HCG in the fridge only lasts about 1 month, I usually open a new

ampoule every month. So 3000ui goes to waste...

I know you can order HCG in 10000ui per 10ml of water. I have no problems with

this concentration, but in this case I would waste 8000mg per month.

And it would quite more expensive. Is that what you guys are doing, just to

avoid the glass ampoules?

> > > >

> > > > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the opening

post question.

> > > >

> > > > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There must

be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> > > > Do those members use filter needles???

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a link to a chart which shows the inner diameter of various

hypodermic needles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle_gauge_comparison_chart

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:04 PM, ttwenties <ttwenties@...> wrote:

>

>

> Thanks!

>

> I live in Austria.

>

> Actually, I guess I would need filter needles for handling HCG as well.

> I get HCG glass ampoules of 5000ui. Then I order bacteriostatic water and

> an empty multi-dose ampoule and I mix with as much water as I want, and keep

> it in the fridge.

> I take 2 injections per week of 250mg each. So per month, I take about

> 2000ui. Since the HCG in the fridge only lasts about 1 month, I usually open

> a new ampoule every month. So 3000ui goes to waste...

>

> I know you can order HCG in 10000ui per 10ml of water. I have no problems

> with this concentration, but in this case I would waste 8000mg per month.

> And it would quite more expensive. Is that what you guys are doing, just to

> avoid the glass ampoules?

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the

> opening post question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There

> must be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> > > > > Do those members use filter needles???

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Based on the chart, it would take a 32 gauge regular hypo with an ID of 4.25

microns to filter below the five microns which a filter needle can do at 5

microns. I am thinking that you could just squirt any glass particles out of

the needle, before transferring and ampule's contents to a vial. Might be a

lot of work with such a small needle though. Would probably want to warm the

oil in your hand first.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Spanky <spankysd@...> wrote:

> Here is a link to a chart which shows the inner diameter of various

> hypodermic needles:

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle_gauge_comparison_chart

>

>

> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:04 PM, ttwenties <ttwenties@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> Thanks!

>>

>> I live in Austria.

>>

>> Actually, I guess I would need filter needles for handling HCG as well.

>> I get HCG glass ampoules of 5000ui. Then I order bacteriostatic water and

>> an empty multi-dose ampoule and I mix with as much water as I want, and keep

>> it in the fridge.

>> I take 2 injections per week of 250mg each. So per month, I take about

>> 2000ui. Since the HCG in the fridge only lasts about 1 month, I usually open

>> a new ampoule every month. So 3000ui goes to waste...

>>

>> I know you can order HCG in 10000ui per 10ml of water. I have no problems

>> with this concentration, but in this case I would waste 8000mg per month.

>> And it would quite more expensive. Is that what you guys are doing, just

>> to avoid the glass ampoules?

>>

>>

>>

>> > > > >

>> > > > > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the

>> opening post question.

>> > > > >

>> > > > > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There

>> must be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

>> > > > > Do those members use filter needles???

>> > > > >

>> > > >

>> > >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is ridiculous.

I don't want to warm up the testosterone. I can already imagine myself watching

the testosterone going round and round in the microwave. Or just watching it

boil in my favourite tea cup.

To my knowledge, using a 27G needle like phil does would be pretty much the same

filtering as a " filter needle " based on that chart.

And with that gauge it takes you like 2 minutes to pull the testosterone in it.

Heck, my nurse last time was using about a 22G needle and was struggling to pull

the oil out.

I can't imagine using a 32G or a filter needle, as it would take me all night to

pull the oil in it.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > So actually this thread got 6 replies, and none addressed the

> >> opening post question.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Are there any members using ampoules for their T injections? There

> >> must be, because in my pharmacy they don't even have multi-dose vials...

> >> > > > > Do those members use filter needles???

> >> > > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > >

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are you serious???

Are you actually telling me that I can get brain damage from using a

Testosterone ampoule?

I know you like your vials.

I wish we had those in Europe. But we don't and we have to live with what we

have and make the best of it.

So if you're just guessing about stuff and scaring people off, then don't do it.

> >

> > > If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

> >

> > What? What are your bases for that statement???

> > Then I would imagine that people taking shots everyday from glass ampoules,

would have turned into a new glass super hero.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" To my knowledge, using a 27G needle like phil does would be pretty much the

same filtering as a " filter needle " based on that chart. "

A 27G hypo needle has a 210 micron ID (0.21 mm). That does not sound similar

to a 5 micron (0.005 mm) filter to me. The thing that bothers me about even

using a filter needle is that according the FDA tests, there are more than

200 glass particles per mL which are smaller then 5 microns in a glass

ampule after it is opened.

I agree with you that a 30G+ needle is too small. I meant the comment about

the time it would take facetiously.

However, Bayer Pharmacueticals recommends to health practitioners to warm a

glass vial of Test U in the hand prior to drawing into the syringe in order

to warm it. Maybe, they don't know what they are talking about.Viscosity is

the issue, which is affected by temperature.

I regularly inject a non oil based med with a 30G needle. Works fine, but

the liquid is not an ester.

[Guest guest]

" Are you actually telling me that I can get brain damage from using a

Testosterone ampoule?

I know you like your vials.

I wish we had those in Europe. But we don't and we have to live with what we

have and make the best of it.

So if you're just guessing about stuff and scaring people off, then don't do

it. "

The following is a direct quote from the US FDA, the agency which approves

drugs in the US. Perhaps they overstate the problem when they publish a

paper which says:

" Particles such as glass fragments in injections not only damage the brain,

liver and kidneys but also cause pulmonary embolism. "

They only give eight references for that sentence from sources such as the

American Journal of Hospital Pharmacology, The New England Journal of

Medicine, the Journal of the American Medical Association, Anaesthesia, the

Biological and Pharmaceutical Bulletin, and Archives of Disease in

Childhood.

Decide for yourself. But it seems to be something to consider.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:34 PM, ttwenties <ttwenties@...> wrote:

>

>

> Are you serious???

>

> Are you actually telling me that I can get brain damage from using a

> Testosterone ampoule?

> I know you like your vials.

> I wish we had those in Europe. But we don't and we have to live with what

> we have and make the best of it.

> So if you're just guessing about stuff and scaring people off, then don't

> do it.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

> > >

> > > What? What are your bases for that statement???

> > > Then I would imagine that people taking shots everyday from glass

> ampoules, would have turned into a new glass super hero.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh... I would guess that the risk is much higher for drugs injected

intravenously. But the point was well made here, who wants glass in their

muscles.

I have had the experience of very small foreign objects becoming embedded

inside of my bones from traumatic injury, only to out about it a year later

after the bones had healed, and when my body decided to reject the foreign

matter. It was a less than pleasant experience.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Spanky <spankysd@...> wrote:

> " Are you actually telling me that I can get brain damage from using a

> Testosterone ampoule?

> I know you like your vials.

> I wish we had those in Europe. But we don't and we have to live with what

> we have and make the best of it.

> So if you're just guessing about stuff and scaring people off, then don't

> do it. "

>

>

> The following is a direct quote from the US FDA, the agency which approves

> drugs in the US. Perhaps they overstate the problem when they publish a

> paper which says:

>

> " Particles such as glass fragments in injections not only damage the brain,

> liver and kidneys but also cause pulmonary embolism. "

>

> They only give eight references for that sentence from sources such as the

> American Journal of Hospital Pharmacology, The New England Journal of

> Medicine, the Journal of the American Medical Association, Anaesthesia, the

> Biological and Pharmaceutical Bulletin, and Archives of Disease in

> Childhood.

>

> Decide for yourself. But it seems to be something to consider.

>

>

>

> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:34 PM, ttwenties <ttwenties@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> Are you serious???

>>

>> Are you actually telling me that I can get brain damage from using a

>> Testosterone ampoule?

>> I know you like your vials.

>> I wish we had those in Europe. But we don't and we have to live with what

>> we have and make the best of it.

>> So if you're just guessing about stuff and scaring people off, then don't

>> do it.

>>

>>

>>

>> > >

>> > > > If you inject glass into your muscle it's there forever.

>> > >

>> > > What? What are your bases for that statement???

>> > > Then I would imagine that people taking shots everyday from glass

>> ampoules, would have turned into a new glass super hero.

>> > >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Man ist was man isst!

or Man ist was man injiziert

Guten Abend!

Randy

>

> Are you serious???

>

> Are you actually telling me that I can get brain damage from using a

Testosterone ampoule?

[Guest guest]

I have run out of 27g needles and had to use 32g man that does take a long time

to get to oil out of the vial.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ttwenties <ttwenties@...>

> Subject: Re: Filter Needles?... Ampules vs Vials

>

> Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 6:27 PM

> This is ridiculous.

> I don't want to warm up the testosterone. I can already

> imagine myself watching the testosterone going round and

> round in the microwave. Or just watching it boil in my

> favourite tea cup.

>

> To my knowledge, using a 27G needle like phil does would be

> pretty much the same filtering as a " filter needle " based on

> that chart.

> And with that gauge it takes you like 2 minutes to pull the

> testosterone in it.

> Heck, my nurse last time was using about a 22G needle and

> was struggling to pull the oil out.

>

> I can't imagine using a 32G or a filter needle, as it would

> take me all night to pull the oil in it.

>

>

>

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > So actually this thread

> got 6 replies, and none addressed the

> > >> opening post question.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Are there any members

> using ampoules for their T injections? There

> > >> must be, because in my pharmacy they don't

> even have multi-dose vials...

> > >> > > > > Do those members use

> filter needles???

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > >

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >> 

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >