Re: New member, some questions

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt and welcome,

The last younger man that posted with a problem like yours was 16 he was into

state wrestling and wanted to go down a weight class. So he started out on a

diet and exercised like your doing. Now don't get me wrong here I am not

saying this is your problem but it sure looks like it from your post. He shut

down his Pituitary from telling his body to make hormones.

Did you ever have your Testosterone tested before if not like this young man you

don't know if your were low to start with and doing this pushed you over the

edge.

Like this kids Dr. his name is Matt also put him on this low dose of Androgel.

I need to tell you this dose is to low will shut you down even more and your

levels can end up going lower. Most men start on 5 grams we tell them to test

after 2 weeks because it is a very low dose and will shut your testis down and

you can end up lower then you started.

I am not a Dr. but I do feel you needed to have a mess of labs done to figure

out why your low in most men if you figure this out and fix it your levels will

come back up.

Your going on 14 days you need to get this tested to be sure it's working. And

I need to tell you the longer your on this the less chance you will have of

coming off it. You can end up on TRT for life this is why it is so important to

find out why your low before you going on TRT.

I see this all the time in younger men into bodybuilding they want to lower

there % of body fat and go on some kind of Diet that ends up shutting them down.

All you can do about this is find out what is low supplement it and eat a

healthy diet.

You need to test your Adrenals your Cortisol levels can be very low and even

your Thyroid. Estradiol is very important to test also if to high it will make

you feel dam bad and kill your sex life.

The young man I am talking about his nick is mobrien and this is a link to his

Recovery Log.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12707

You need to see a dam good Dr. like Dr. in Mi. he will work with your Dr.

over the phone. www.allthingsmale.com or Dr. O and Hardasnails at this address.

================================

Overbeck hardasnails1973@... 484-868-0916 contact 1100 fayette

st Conshohocken Internal medicine Male and female hormone disorders and

metabolic disorders 610-828-2026

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> Subject: New member, some questions

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> I am 31 years old and was recently

> diagnosed with Low T.  On two different AM blood draws

> 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257 on the other. I am

> very active, I do martial arts training, functional type

> workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc..), HIIT, and

> things like that at least ~10hrs a week, sometimes as much

> as 15-20hrs.  If you want to see what I actually do, I

> started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it seems like

my

> testosterone should be very high with this activity,

> especially considering my age?  I have been on an

> extremely low calorie diet since March 17th (doctor

> supervised and monitored) to lose my additional weight, so

> my activity did slow down some, but has started to pick back

> up. 

>

> What made me test my testosterone was that I have had

> trouble losing all the weight I need too.  Over the

> course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my own with becoming

> active and cleaning up the diet a little, from ~260lbs to

> ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more around

> 170-180lbs.  According to the segmented bio-impedance

> measurements I have 20-30% more muscle then the average 5'8 "

> guy.  I don't understand how I can have low T yet be

> muscular, be fit, and so forth?  Do you think that low

> T could also be preventing me from losing the extra

> weight?  Previously on my own diets it seemed like even

> on 2k calories a day I was struggling to lose weight,

> shouldn't that calorie amount with the amount of exercise I

> was doing burn the fat off?  My diet now is only around

> 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost about 15lbs in 3 weeks

> and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet will change tomorrow on

> Dr orders, but this was just a jump start type part of the

> program.

>

> Overall for me I seemed to have all the emotional and

> mental symptoms more than the physical (except my

> weight).  I have had a lack of confidence, lack of

> drive (seems like everything I have been doing is sheer

> willpower), and also battling depression.  I have been

> this way for a very long time, who knows how long.  The

> labs showed my testes were ok, they suspected a pituitary

> tumor and I have had a MRI done last week that I am waiting

> to hear results back on.  In the mean time my Dr put me

> on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this is the lowest

> dosage, but since my physical attributes were ok my Dr had

> even said one option was to not treat it but I wanted to go

> ahead and try.  I believe he is may be new to this

> treatment, he is an excellent bariatric doctor but only

> looks at these hormones when there are issues.  My

> workouts are better now and I recover faster, but the

> emotional/mental aspects have only slightly improved. 

> However I am also only on day 14, I think I will not feel

> full results until 6-8 weeks?  My weight has not moving

> down as fast as it was either, but perhaps that is muscle

> conservation or could just be the normal course when on a

> diet such as I have been.  I expected that it may speed

> up when on Androgel.

>

> Are there any additional concerns I should have? 

> Anything to look out for?  Will Androgel shut down my

> own T production, and if so what do I do about that? 

> Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or are their other

> options?  Are there any natural remedies to bringing my

> T back inline?  I have tried Tribulus, Fenugreek, and

> things like that in the past and it seemed like the first

> few days my T felt like it was higher but it faded after

> that.  I honestly would rather not be on any

> testosterone if I could normalize it by other means.  I

> had some other blood work that was a little out of optimal

> (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little low, cholesterol

> numbers a little off etc..), combined with my excess weight,

> my Dr said I may have a 30% chance testosterone could

> normalize once we get everything else normalized but my odds

> would be much greater if I were a lot heavier.  So

> maybe in a couple of months if my T has normalized on

> Androgel and my other blood work has as well we may take me

> off Androgel for a month and recheck it. 

>

> Anyways any advice is greatly appreciated.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response , I understand where you are coming from but

let me further detail my story out. I think I may have had low T since possibly

even back in my early 20's around 22 or 23. I was working nights and basically

didn't have a care in the world, all I did was stay home and play video games

and eat, I was depressed but just thought this was the way life was. At around

26 or 27 I realized I where I was and that if I didn't do something soon I would

go to the grave early so I started looking into working out more. However I

really started working out hard since I was about 28 years old when I started

martial arts training.

I have to say I feel great when I work out, I have greater endurance/stamina

then some of the 20 year olds, I rarely get tired no matter if we are sparring,

grappling, or what not. I have been a little less energetic on the super low

calorie diet I have been on, but its not nearly as bad as I expected. Initially

when I first started working out I was still eating a lot of calories initially

and had lost 30lbs with exercise alone, however after about 4 months I realized

I needed to change my diet. I took out a lot of soda, and started to try to

make better choices (grilled chicken vs burgers) and trying to eat vegetables at

least some of the time, taking vitamins and so forth. That is how I got down to

~210lbs, I actually went down to 200lbs at one point, but I was only eating 1800

calories a day and it started to be a struggle to maintain that so I ended up at

210lbs. The bodpod said I was 22% bodyfat back when I was 205lbs, the segmented

bio-impedance says I am 28% bodyfat when I tested at 211lbs a month or so ago.

I hope tomorrow I will see what change has been made now that I am 195lbs. I

carry my weight around my stomach, which I hear is the worst place to have

excess weight…

I was concerned about the 2.5g dosage because the packet says 5g is the minimum

dosage typically, but then my test was not rock bottom it was near the

borderline so I thought maybe in conjunction with my own test it would be fine.

I will try to discuss this more with my Dr.

I took some blood work last week but I am not sure it was hormonal or just a

check up to verify the diet was ok with my body. I have another blood work in 2

weeks, is that too long to wait?

My initial bloodwork for hormones was:

Thyroid TSH 3.340 uIU/mL (range 0.450-4.500, Dr noted ideal is under 2.0)

DHEA-Sulfate 218.6 ug/dL (160-449 range, Dr noted 250+ was ideal)

Testosterone, Serum 263 L ng/dL (280-800 range, should be over 300)

Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.0L pq/mL (8.7-25.1)

My second bloodwork was more comprehensive:

T4, Free, Direct 1.41 ng/dL (range 0.82-1.77)

Testosterone, Serum 257 L ng/dL

LH 2.8 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6 range)

FSH 6.4 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4 range)

Prolactin 5.5 ng/mL (4.0-15.2 range)

I am curious about Estradiol but I don't have any of the symptoms of high

estrogen that I am aware of, no gyno or anything like that. Cortisol is one

thing I am wondering about, I am under a lot of stress and could see this

playing a factor.

Thank you for the link I will check it out.

Thanks again for your help.

-Matt

>

> > From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> > Subject: New member, some questions

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> > I am 31 years old and was recently

> > diagnosed with Low T. On two different AM blood draws

> > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257 on the other. I am

> > very active, I do martial arts training, functional type

> > workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc..), HIIT, and

> > things like that at least ~10hrs a week, sometimes as much

> > as 15-20hrs. If you want to see what I actually do, I

> > started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it seems

like my

> > testosterone should be very high with this activity,

> > especially considering my age? I have been on an

> > extremely low calorie diet since March 17th (doctor

> > supervised and monitored) to lose my additional weight, so

> > my activity did slow down some, but has started to pick back

> > up.

> >

> > What made me test my testosterone was that I have had

> > trouble losing all the weight I need too. Over the

> > course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my own with becoming

> > active and cleaning up the diet a little, from ~260lbs to

> > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more around

> > 170-180lbs. According to the segmented bio-impedance

> > measurements I have 20-30% more muscle then the average 5'8 "

> > guy. I don't understand how I can have low T yet be

> > muscular, be fit, and so forth? Do you think that low

> > T could also be preventing me from losing the extra

> > weight? Previously on my own diets it seemed like even

> > on 2k calories a day I was struggling to lose weight,

> > shouldn't that calorie amount with the amount of exercise I

> > was doing burn the fat off? My diet now is only around

> > 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost about 15lbs in 3 weeks

> > and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet will change tomorrow on

> > Dr orders, but this was just a jump start type part of the

> > program.

> >

> > Overall for me I seemed to have all the emotional and

> > mental symptoms more than the physical (except my

> > weight). I have had a lack of confidence, lack of

> > drive (seems like everything I have been doing is sheer

> > willpower), and also battling depression. I have been

> > this way for a very long time, who knows how long. The

> > labs showed my testes were ok, they suspected a pituitary

> > tumor and I have had a MRI done last week that I am waiting

> > to hear results back on. In the mean time my Dr put me

> > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this is the lowest

> > dosage, but since my physical attributes were ok my Dr had

> > even said one option was to not treat it but I wanted to go

> > ahead and try. I believe he is may be new to this

> > treatment, he is an excellent bariatric doctor but only

> > looks at these hormones when there are issues. My

> > workouts are better now and I recover faster, but the

> > emotional/mental aspects have only slightly improved.

> > However I am also only on day 14, I think I will not feel

> > full results until 6-8 weeks? My weight has not moving

> > down as fast as it was either, but perhaps that is muscle

> > conservation or could just be the normal course when on a

> > diet such as I have been. I expected that it may speed

> > up when on Androgel.

> >

> > Are there any additional concerns I should have?

> > Anything to look out for? Will Androgel shut down my

> > own T production, and if so what do I do about that?

> > Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or are their other

> > options? Are there any natural remedies to bringing my

> > T back inline? I have tried Tribulus, Fenugreek, and

> > things like that in the past and it seemed like the first

> > few days my T felt like it was higher but it faded after

> > that. I honestly would rather not be on any

> > testosterone if I could normalize it by other means. I

> > had some other blood work that was a little out of optimal

> > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little low, cholesterol

> > numbers a little off etc..), combined with my excess weight,

> > my Dr said I may have a 30% chance testosterone could

> > normalize once we get everything else normalized but my odds

> > would be much greater if I were a lot heavier. So

> > maybe in a couple of months if my T has normalized on

> > Androgel and my other blood work has as well we may take me

> > off Androgel for a month and recheck it.

> >

> > Anyways any advice is greatly appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Matt your Dr. is right your TSH levels is a flag going up you need a lot of labs

to test this to be sure your not hypo. One home test you can do is what they

did yrs ago before labs came out take your morning basal Temp before moving a

lot or getting out of bed in the morning.

Read this link on how to do this if your lower then 97.8 you need to run these

labs.

Here is what I am have done at Quest Labs

Estradiol sensitive Code #4021

Testosterone, Free, Bioavailable & Total LC/MS/MS Code # 14966X.

Homocysteine (Caridioviasular) Code #31789X.

Vit.D, 25-Hydroxy LC/MS/MS Code #17306X.

TSH

Free T4

Free T3

Total T3

Total T4

RT3

Total Iron

Iron Binding Capacity

Iron % Saturation

Ferritin

B-12

Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

* Adrenal Cortisol levels (but we strongly recommend saliva tests, not the one

time blood test your doctor will do. See below, because you don't need a

prescription)

Read this link and the web site.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/

Your LH if this test was before the Androgel tells me your Pituitary is shut

down your LH is very low this tells your Testis to make Testostrone and with a

levels of Testosterone at 257 your LH should be at the top of the range.

But to be sure about his your Estradiol levels need to be tested if they are

very high your labs for LH will be low and your T levels. Your brain can't tell

the different between high Estradiol and Testosterone because Estradiol is made

from it so when levels are very high your brain thinks your Estradiol is

Testosteone and slows down sending the LH messages to your testis and all that

is needed here is to get down your Estradiol levels.

The following link is about older men but I see this in younger men that were or

are over weight.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

Also read this link about Adrenals and Thyroid.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

And this about low Testosteone

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> Subject: Re: New member, some questions

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 11:30 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Thank you for your response , I understand where you

> are coming from but let me further detail my story

> out.  I think I may have had low T since possibly even

> back in my early 20's around 22 or 23.  I was working

> nights and basically didn't have a care in the world, all I

> did was stay home and play video games and eat, I was

> depressed but just thought this was the way life was. 

> At around 26 or 27 I realized I where I was and that if I

> didn't do something soon I would go to the grave early so I

> started looking into working out more.  However I

> really started working out hard since I was about 28 years

> old when I started martial arts training. 

>

> I have to say I feel great when I work out, I have greater

> endurance/stamina then some of the 20 year olds, I rarely

> get tired no matter if we are sparring, grappling, or what

> not.  I have been a little less energetic on the super

> low calorie diet I have been on, but its not nearly as bad

> as I expected. Initially when I first started working out I

> was still eating a lot of calories initially and had lost

> 30lbs with exercise alone, however after about 4 months I

> realized I needed to change my diet.  I took out a lot

> of soda, and started to try to make better choices (grilled

> chicken vs burgers) and trying to eat vegetables at least

> some of the time, taking vitamins and so forth.  That

> is how I got down to ~210lbs, I actually went down to 200lbs

> at one point, but I was only eating 1800 calories a day and

> it started to be a struggle to maintain that so I ended up

> at 210lbs.  The bodpod said I was 22% bodyfat back when

> I was 205lbs, the segmented bio-impedance says I am 28%

> bodyfat when I tested at 211lbs a month or so ago.  I

> hope tomorrow I will see what change has been made now that

> I am 195lbs.  I carry my weight around my stomach,

> which I hear is the worst place to have excess weight…

>

> I was concerned about the 2.5g dosage because the packet

> says 5g is the minimum dosage typically, but then my test

> was not rock bottom it was near the borderline so I thought

> maybe in conjunction with my own test it would be

> fine.  I will try to discuss this more with my Dr.

>

> I took some blood work last week but I am not sure it was

> hormonal or just a check up to verify the diet was ok with

> my body.  I have another blood work in 2 weeks, is that

> too long to wait?

>

> My initial bloodwork for hormones was:

>

> Thyroid TSH  3.340 uIU/mL (range 0.450-4.500, Dr noted

> ideal is under 2.0)

> DHEA-Sulfate  218.6 ug/dL (160-449 range, Dr noted

> 250+ was ideal)

> Testosterone, Serum 263 L ng/dL (280-800 range, should be

> over 300)

> Free Testosterone(Direct)  8.0L pq/mL 

> (8.7-25.1)

>

> My second bloodwork was more comprehensive:

>

> T4, Free, Direct  1.41 ng/dL (range 0.82-1.77)

> Testosterone, Serum  257 L ng/dL

> LH  2.8 mIU/mL  (1.7-8.6 range)

> FSH 6.4 mIU/mL  (1.5-12.4 range)

> Prolactin 5.5 ng/mL (4.0-15.2 range)

>

> I am curious about Estradiol but I don't have any of the

> symptoms of high estrogen that I am aware of, no gyno or

> anything like that.  Cortisol is one thing I am

> wondering about, I am under a lot of stress and could see

> this playing a factor.

>

> Thank you for the link I will check it out.

>

> Thanks again for your help.

>

> -Matt

>

>

> >

> > > From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> > > Subject: New member, some

> questions

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> > > I am 31 years old and was recently

> > > diagnosed with Low T.  On two different AM

> blood draws

> > > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257 on the

> other. I am

> > > very active, I do martial arts training,

> functional type

> > > workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc..),

> HIIT, and

> > > things like that at least ~10hrs a week,

> sometimes as much

> > > as 15-20hrs.  If you want to see what I

> actually do, I

> > > started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it seems

like my

> > > testosterone should be very high with this

> activity,

> > > especially considering my age?  I have been

> on an

> > > extremely low calorie diet since March 17th

> (doctor

> > > supervised and monitored) to lose my additional

> weight, so

> > > my activity did slow down some, but has started

> to pick back

> > > up. 

> > >

> > > What made me test my testosterone was that I have

> had

> > > trouble losing all the weight I need too. 

> Over the

> > > course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my own with

> becoming

> > > active and cleaning up the diet a little, from

> ~260lbs to

> > > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more around

> > > 170-180lbs.  According to the segmented

> bio-impedance

> > > measurements I have 20-30% more muscle then the

> average 5'8 "

> > > guy.  I don't understand how I can have low

> T yet be

> > > muscular, be fit, and so forth?  Do you

> think that low

> > > T could also be preventing me from losing the

> extra

> > > weight?  Previously on my own diets it

> seemed like even

> > > on 2k calories a day I was struggling to lose

> weight,

> > > shouldn't that calorie amount with the amount of

> exercise I

> > > was doing burn the fat off?  My diet now is

> only around

> > > 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost about 15lbs

> in 3 weeks

> > > and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet will change

> tomorrow on

> > > Dr orders, but this was just a jump start type

> part of the

> > > program.

> > >

> > > Overall for me I seemed to have all the emotional

> and

> > > mental symptoms more than the physical (except

> my

> > > weight).  I have had a lack of confidence,

> lack of

> > > drive (seems like everything I have been doing is

> sheer

> > > willpower), and also battling depression.  I

> have been

> > > this way for a very long time, who knows how

> long.  The

> > > labs showed my testes were ok, they suspected a

> pituitary

> > > tumor and I have had a MRI done last week that I

> am waiting

> > > to hear results back on.  In the mean time

> my Dr put me

> > > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this is the

> lowest

> > > dosage, but since my physical attributes were ok

> my Dr had

> > > even said one option was to not treat it but I

> wanted to go

> > > ahead and try.  I believe he is may be new

> to this

> > > treatment, he is an excellent bariatric doctor

> but only

> > > looks at these hormones when there are

> issues.  My

> > > workouts are better now and I recover faster, but

> the

> > > emotional/mental aspects have only slightly

> improved.

> > > However I am also only on day 14, I think I will

> not feel

> > > full results until 6-8 weeks?  My weight has

> not moving

> > > down as fast as it was either, but perhaps that

> is muscle

> > > conservation or could just be the normal course

> when on a

> > > diet such as I have been.  I expected that

> it may speed

> > > up when on Androgel.

> > > 

> > > Are there any additional concerns I should have?

>

> > > Anything to look out for?  Will Androgel

> shut down my

> > > own T production, and if so what do I do about

> that?

> > > Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or are their

> other

> > > options?  Are there any natural remedies to

> bringing my

> > > T back inline?  I have tried Tribulus,

> Fenugreek, and

> > > things like that in the past and it seemed like

> the first

> > > few days my T felt like it was higher but it

> faded after

> > > that.  I honestly would rather not be on

> any

> > > testosterone if I could normalize it by other

> means.  I

> > > had some other blood work that was a little out

> of optimal

> > > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little low,

> cholesterol

> > > numbers a little off etc..), combined with my

> excess weight,

> > > my Dr said I may have a 30% chance testosterone

> could

> > > normalize once we get everything else normalized

> but my odds

> > > would be much greater if I were a lot

> heavier.  So

> > > maybe in a couple of months if my T has

> normalized on

> > > Androgel and my other blood work has as well we

> may take me

> > > off Androgel for a month and recheck it. 

> > >

> > > Anyways any advice is greatly appreciated.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I once tested my body temp back in July last year for about a month almost every

morning first thing, I was trying to use it to see if I was over training

because I had been told if your temp drops it's a sign. I averaged 97.63,

lowest was 97.3, and maximum was 97.9. Granted this was quite a long time ago

but I bet it's the same thing now, I'll start checking it again.

Thank you so much for all this help. All of these tests were before Androgel.

I have had some of the tests mentioned completed as part of the general checkup

but not all, I'll discuss with my doctor about having the other tests completed.

He may want to refer me out to an endocrinologist, does anyone know of a good

one in the Kansas City area?

Thank you for the links I will check them all out, I am going to share all of

this with my Dr and see where we go from here.

-Matt

> > >

> > > > From: Matt <mattjon332@>

> > > > Subject: New member, some

> > questions

> > > >

> > > > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> > > > I am 31 years old and was recently

> > > > diagnosed with Low T. On two different AM

> > blood draws

> > > > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257 on the

> > other. I am

> > > > very active, I do martial arts training,

> > functional type

> > > > workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc..),

> > HIIT, and

> > > > things like that at least ~10hrs a week,

> > sometimes as much

> > > > as 15-20hrs. If you want to see what I

> > actually do, I

> > > > started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it

seems like my

> > > > testosterone should be very high with this

> > activity,

> > > > especially considering my age? I have been

> > on an

> > > > extremely low calorie diet since March 17th

> > (doctor

> > > > supervised and monitored) to lose my additional

> > weight, so

> > > > my activity did slow down some, but has started

> > to pick back

> > > > up.Â

> > > >

> > > > What made me test my testosterone was that I have

> > had

> > > > trouble losing all the weight I need too.Â

> > Over the

> > > > course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my own with

> > becoming

> > > > active and cleaning up the diet a little, from

> > ~260lbs to

> > > > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more around

> > > > 170-180lbs. According to the segmented

> > bio-impedance

> > > > measurements I have 20-30% more muscle then the

> > average 5'8 "

> > > > guy. I don't understand how I can have low

> > T yet be

> > > > muscular, be fit, and so forth? Do you

> > think that low

> > > > T could also be preventing me from losing the

> > extra

> > > > weight? Previously on my own diets it

> > seemed like even

> > > > on 2k calories a day I was struggling to lose

> > weight,

> > > > shouldn't that calorie amount with the amount of

> > exercise I

> > > > was doing burn the fat off? My diet now is

> > only around

> > > > 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost about 15lbs

> > in 3 weeks

> > > > and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet will change

> > tomorrow on

> > > > Dr orders, but this was just a jump start type

> > part of the

> > > > program.

> > > >

> > > > Overall for me I seemed to have all the emotional

> > and

> > > > mental symptoms more than the physical (except

> > my

> > > > weight). I have had a lack of confidence,

> > lack of

> > > > drive (seems like everything I have been doing is

> > sheer

> > > > willpower), and also battling depression. I

> > have been

> > > > this way for a very long time, who knows how

> > long. The

> > > > labs showed my testes were ok, they suspected a

> > pituitary

> > > > tumor and I have had a MRI done last week that I

> > am waiting

> > > > to hear results back on. In the mean time

> > my Dr put me

> > > > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this is the

> > lowest

> > > > dosage, but since my physical attributes were ok

> > my Dr had

> > > > even said one option was to not treat it but I

> > wanted to go

> > > > ahead and try. I believe he is may be new

> > to this

> > > > treatment, he is an excellent bariatric doctor

> > but only

> > > > looks at these hormones when there are

> > issues. My

> > > > workouts are better now and I recover faster, but

> > the

> > > > emotional/mental aspects have only slightly

> > improved.

> > > > However I am also only on day 14, I think I will

> > not feel

> > > > full results until 6-8 weeks? My weight has

> > not moving

> > > > down as fast as it was either, but perhaps that

> > is muscle

> > > > conservation or could just be the normal course

> > when on a

> > > > diet such as I have been. I expected that

> > it may speed

> > > > up when on Androgel.

> > > >Â

> > > > Are there any additional concerns I should have?

> >

> > > > Anything to look out for? Will Androgel

> > shut down my

> > > > own T production, and if so what do I do about

> > that?

> > > > Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or are their

> > other

> > > > options? Are there any natural remedies to

> > bringing my

> > > > T back inline? I have tried Tribulus,

> > Fenugreek, and

> > > > things like that in the past and it seemed like

> > the first

> > > > few days my T felt like it was higher but it

> > faded after

> > > > that. I honestly would rather not be on

> > any

> > > > testosterone if I could normalize it by other

> > means. I

> > > > had some other blood work that was a little out

> > of optimal

> > > > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little low,

> > cholesterol

> > > > numbers a little off etc..), combined with my

> > excess weight,

> > > > my Dr said I may have a 30% chance testosterone

> > could

> > > > normalize once we get everything else normalized

> > but my odds

> > > > would be much greater if I were a lot

> > heavier. So

> > > > maybe in a couple of months if my T has

> > normalized on

> > > > Androgel and my other blood work has as well we

> > may take me

> > > > off Androgel for a month and recheck it.Â

> > > >

> > > > Anyways any advice is greatly appreciated.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Read about them problems learn and don't see an Endo they are not good Dr.'s for

hormones of any kind take my word for it. Try to work with your Dr. if he can't

do it ask him if he will work with Dr. over the phone this way he will

learn how to take care of you and learn it on your dime. When my Dr. started

out treating me he did not know much about this today he is one of the best

hormone Dr.'s out in my area.

www.allthingsmale.com

To learn about Thyroid read this site when they had a forum I was a mod. for

there Men's only Thyroid Forum.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> Subject: Re: New member, some questions

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:13 PM

>

>

> I once tested my body temp back in July last year for about

> a month almost every morning first thing, I was trying to

> use it to see if I was over training because I had been told

> if your temp drops it's a sign.  I averaged 97.63,

> lowest was 97.3, and maximum was 97.9.  Granted this

> was quite a long time ago but I bet it's the same thing now,

> I'll start checking it again.

>

> Thank you so much for all this help.  All of these

> tests were before Androgel.  I have had some of the

> tests mentioned completed as part of the general checkup but

> not all, I'll discuss with my doctor about having the other

> tests completed.  He may want to refer me out to an

> endocrinologist, does anyone know of a good one in the

> Kansas City area?

>

> Thank you for the links I will check them all out, I am

> going to share all of this with my Dr and see where we go

> from here.

>

> -Matt

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: Matt <mattjon332@>

> > > > > Subject: New member,

> some

> > > questions

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> > > > > I am 31 years old and was recently

> > > > > diagnosed with Low T.  On two

> different AM

> > > blood draws

> > > > > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257

> on the

> > > other. I am

> > > > > very active, I do martial arts

> training,

> > > functional type

> > > > > workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups,

> etc..),

> > > HIIT, and

> > > > > things like that at least ~10hrs a

> week,

> > > sometimes as much

> > > > > as 15-20hrs.  If you want to see

> what I

> > > actually do, I

> > > > > started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it

seems like my

> > > > > testosterone should be very high with

> this

> > > activity,

> > > > > especially considering my age? 

> I have been

> > > on an

> > > > > extremely low calorie diet since March

> 17th

> > > (doctor

> > > > > supervised and monitored) to lose my

> additional

> > > weight, so

> > > > > my activity did slow down some, but has

> started

> > > to pick back

> > > > > up. 

> > > > >

> > > > > What made me test my testosterone was

> that I have

> > > had

> > > > > trouble losing all the weight I need

> too.Â

> > > Over the

> > > > > course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my

> own with

> > > becoming

> > > > > active and cleaning up the diet a

> little, from

> > > ~260lbs to

> > > > > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more

> around

> > > > > 170-180lbs.  According to the

> segmented

> > > bio-impedance

> > > > > measurements I have 20-30% more muscle

> then the

> > > average 5'8 "

> > > > > guy.  I don't understand how I

> can have low

> > > T yet be

> > > > > muscular, be fit, and so forth? 

> Do you

> > > think that low

> > > > > T could also be preventing me from

> losing the

> > > extra

> > > > > weight?  Previously on my own

> diets it

> > > seemed like even

> > > > > on 2k calories a day I was struggling

> to lose

> > > weight,

> > > > > shouldn't that calorie amount with the

> amount of

> > > exercise I

> > > > > was doing burn the fat off?  My

> diet now is

> > > only around

> > > > > 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost

> about 15lbs

> > > in 3 weeks

> > > > > and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet

> will change

> > > tomorrow on

> > > > > Dr orders, but this was just a jump

> start type

> > > part of the

> > > > > program.

> > > > >

> > > > > Overall for me I seemed to have all the

> emotional

> > > and

> > > > > mental symptoms more than the physical

> (except

> > > my

> > > > > weight).  I have had a lack of

> confidence,

> > > lack of

> > > > > drive (seems like everything I have

> been doing is

> > > sheer

> > > > > willpower), and also battling

> depression.  I

> > > have been

> > > > > this way for a very long time, who

> knows how

> > > long.  The

> > > > > labs showed my testes were ok, they

> suspected a

> > > pituitary

> > > > > tumor and I have had a MRI done last

> week that I

> > > am waiting

> > > > > to hear results back on.  In the

> mean time

> > > my Dr put me

> > > > > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this

> is the

> > > lowest

> > > > > dosage, but since my physical

> attributes were ok

> > > my Dr had

> > > > > even said one option was to not treat

> it but I

> > > wanted to go

> > > > > ahead and try.  I believe he is

> may be new

> > > to this

> > > > > treatment, he is an excellent bariatric

> doctor

> > > but only

> > > > > looks at these hormones when there are

> > > issues.  My

> > > > > workouts are better now and I recover

> faster, but

> > > the

> > > > > emotional/mental aspects have only

> slightly

> > > improved.

> > > > > However I am also only on day 14, I

> think I will

> > > not feel

> > > > > full results until 6-8 weeks? 

> My weight has

> > > not moving

> > > > > down as fast as it was either, but

> perhaps that

> > > is muscle

> > > > > conservation or could just be the

> normal course

> > > when on a

> > > > > diet such as I have been.  I

> expected that

> > > it may speed

> > > > > up when on Androgel.

> > > > > 

> > > > > Are there any additional concerns I

> should have?

> > >

> > > > > Anything to look out for?  Will

> Androgel

> > > shut down my

> > > > > own T production, and if so what do I

> do about

> > > that?

> > > > > Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or

> are their

> > > other

> > > > > options?  Are there any natural

> remedies to

> > > bringing my

> > > > > T back inline?  I have tried

> Tribulus,

> > > Fenugreek, and

> > > > > things like that in the past and it

> seemed like

> > > the first

> > > > > few days my T felt like it was higher

> but it

> > > faded after

> > > > > that.  I honestly would rather

> not be on

> > > any

> > > > > testosterone if I could normalize it by

> other

> > > means.  I

> > > > > had some other blood work that was a

> little out

> > > of optimal

> > > > > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little

> low,

> > > cholesterol

> > > > > numbers a little off etc..), combined

> with my

> > > excess weight,

> > > > > my Dr said I may have a 30% chance

> testosterone

> > > could

> > > > > normalize once we get everything else

> normalized

> > > but my odds

> > > > > would be much greater if I were a lot

> > > heavier.  So

> > > > > maybe in a couple of months if my T

> has

> > > normalized on

> > > > > Androgel and my other blood work has as

> well we

> > > may take me

> > > > > off Androgel for a month and recheck

> it. 

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyways any advice is greatly

> appreciated.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I just got my MRI results back, everything is normal no issues with pituitary

tumors etc... I am now really leaning more towards cortisol or estradiol

levels, but I am going to try to compile all of this information and share it

with my Dr as soon as I can.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Matt

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: Matt <mattjon332@>

> > > > > > Subject: New member,

> > some

> > > > questions

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> > > > > > I am 31 years old and was recently

> > > > > > diagnosed with Low T.  On two

> > different AM

> > > > blood draws

> > > > > > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257

> > on the

> > > > other. I am

> > > > > > very active, I do martial arts

> > training,

> > > > functional type

> > > > > > workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups,

> > etc..),

> > > > HIIT, and

> > > > > > things like that at least ~10hrs a

> > week,

> > > > sometimes as much

> > > > > > as 15-20hrs.  If you want to see

> > what I

> > > > actually do, I

> > > > > > started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it

seems like my

> > > > > > testosterone should be very high with

> > this

> > > > activity,

> > > > > > especially considering my age? 

> > I have been

> > > > on an

> > > > > > extremely low calorie diet since March

> > 17th

> > > > (doctor

> > > > > > supervised and monitored) to lose my

> > additional

> > > > weight, so

> > > > > > my activity did slow down some, but has

> > started

> > > > to pick back

> > > > > > up. 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What made me test my testosterone was

> > that I have

> > > > had

> > > > > > trouble losing all the weight I need

> > too.Â

> > > > Over the

> > > > > > course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my

> > own with

> > > > becoming

> > > > > > active and cleaning up the diet a

> > little, from

> > > > ~260lbs to

> > > > > > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more

> > around

> > > > > > 170-180lbs.  According to the

> > segmented

> > > > bio-impedance

> > > > > > measurements I have 20-30% more muscle

> > then the

> > > > average 5'8 "

> > > > > > guy.  I don't understand how I

> > can have low

> > > > T yet be

> > > > > > muscular, be fit, and so forth? 

> > Do you

> > > > think that low

> > > > > > T could also be preventing me from

> > losing the

> > > > extra

> > > > > > weight?  Previously on my own

> > diets it

> > > > seemed like even

> > > > > > on 2k calories a day I was struggling

> > to lose

> > > > weight,

> > > > > > shouldn't that calorie amount with the

> > amount of

> > > > exercise I

> > > > > > was doing burn the fat off?  My

> > diet now is

> > > > only around

> > > > > > 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost

> > about 15lbs

> > > > in 3 weeks

> > > > > > and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet

> > will change

> > > > tomorrow on

> > > > > > Dr orders, but this was just a jump

> > start type

> > > > part of the

> > > > > > program.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Overall for me I seemed to have all the

> > emotional

> > > > and

> > > > > > mental symptoms more than the physical

> > (except

> > > > my

> > > > > > weight).  I have had a lack of

> > confidence,

> > > > lack of

> > > > > > drive (seems like everything I have

> > been doing is

> > > > sheer

> > > > > > willpower), and also battling

> > depression.  I

> > > > have been

> > > > > > this way for a very long time, who

> > knows how

> > > > long.  The

> > > > > > labs showed my testes were ok, they

> > suspected a

> > > > pituitary

> > > > > > tumor and I have had a MRI done last

> > week that I

> > > > am waiting

> > > > > > to hear results back on.  In the

> > mean time

> > > > my Dr put me

> > > > > > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this

> > is the

> > > > lowest

> > > > > > dosage, but since my physical

> > attributes were ok

> > > > my Dr had

> > > > > > even said one option was to not treat

> > it but I

> > > > wanted to go

> > > > > > ahead and try.  I believe he is

> > may be new

> > > > to this

> > > > > > treatment, he is an excellent bariatric

> > doctor

> > > > but only

> > > > > > looks at these hormones when there are

> > > > issues.  My

> > > > > > workouts are better now and I recover

> > faster, but

> > > > the

> > > > > > emotional/mental aspects have only

> > slightly

> > > > improved.

> > > > > > However I am also only on day 14, I

> > think I will

> > > > not feel

> > > > > > full results until 6-8 weeks? 

> > My weight has

> > > > not moving

> > > > > > down as fast as it was either, but

> > perhaps that

> > > > is muscle

> > > > > > conservation or could just be the

> > normal course

> > > > when on a

> > > > > > diet such as I have been.  I

> > expected that

> > > > it may speed

> > > > > > up when on Androgel.

> > > > > > 

> > > > > > Are there any additional concerns I

> > should have?

> > > >

> > > > > > Anything to look out for?  Will

> > Androgel

> > > > shut down my

> > > > > > own T production, and if so what do I

> > do about

> > > > that?

> > > > > > Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or

> > are their

> > > > other

> > > > > > options?  Are there any natural

> > remedies to

> > > > bringing my

> > > > > > T back inline?  I have tried

> > Tribulus,

> > > > Fenugreek, and

> > > > > > things like that in the past and it

> > seemed like

> > > > the first

> > > > > > few days my T felt like it was higher

> > but it

> > > > faded after

> > > > > > that.  I honestly would rather

> > not be on

> > > > any

> > > > > > testosterone if I could normalize it by

> > other

> > > > means.  I

> > > > > > had some other blood work that was a

> > little out

> > > > of optimal

> > > > > > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little

> > low,

> > > > cholesterol

> > > > > > numbers a little off etc..), combined

> > with my

> > > > excess weight,

> > > > > > my Dr said I may have a 30% chance

> > testosterone

> > > > could

> > > > > > normalize once we get everything else

> > normalized

> > > > but my odds

> > > > > > would be much greater if I were a lot

> > > > heavier.  So

> > > > > > maybe in a couple of months if my T

> > has

> > > > normalized on

> > > > > > Androgel and my other blood work has as

> > well we

> > > > may take me

> > > > > > off Androgel for a month and recheck

> > it. 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyways any advice is greatly

> > appreciated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Your welcome and you can still have a pituitary Problem it's just not from a

tumor mine is from a head injury from an auto accident so just keep this in the

back of your mine. I feel your on your feet now if you need more info just ask

this is what we do here.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> Subject: Re: New member, some questions

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 3:01 PM

> I just got my MRI results back,

> everything is normal no issues with pituitary tumors

> etc...  I am now really leaning more towards cortisol

> or estradiol levels, but I am going to try to compile all of

> this information and share it with my Dr as soon as I can.

>

> Thanks again for all the help!

>

> -Matt

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: Matt

> <mattjon332@>

> > > > > > > Subject: New

> member,

> > > some

> > > > > questions

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010,

> 9:52 AM

> > > > > > > I am 31 years old and was

> recently

> > > > > > > diagnosed with Low

> T.  On two

> > > different AM

> > > > > blood draws

> > > > > > > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on

> one and 257

> > > on the

> > > > > other. I am

> > > > > > > very active, I do martial

> arts

> > > training,

> > > > > functional type

> > > > > > > workouts (pushups, pull-ups,

> sit-ups,

> > > etc..),

> > > > > HIIT, and

> > > > > > > things like that at least

> ~10hrs a

> > > week,

> > > > > sometimes as much

> > > > > > > as 15-20hrs.  If you

> want to see

> > > what I

> > > > > actually do, I

> > > > > > > started blogging it in March

> at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it seems like my

> > > > > > > testosterone should be very

> high with

> > > this

> > > > > activity,

> > > > > > > especially considering my

> age? 

> > > I have been

> > > > > on an

> > > > > > > extremely low calorie diet

> since March

> > > 17th

> > > > > (doctor

> > > > > > > supervised and monitored) to

> lose my

> > > additional

> > > > > weight, so

> > > > > > > my activity did slow down

> some, but has

> > > started

> > > > > to pick back

> > > > > > > up. 

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What made me test my

> testosterone was

> > > that I have

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > trouble losing all the weight

> I need

> > > too.Â

> > > > > Over the

> > > > > > > course of 3 years I lost

> ~50lbs on my

> > > own with

> > > > > becoming

> > > > > > > active and cleaning up the

> diet a

> > > little, from

> > > > > ~260lbs to

> > > > > > > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight

> is more

> > > around

> > > > > > > 170-180lbs. 

> According to the

> > > segmented

> > > > > bio-impedance

> > > > > > > measurements I have 20-30%

> more muscle

> > > then the

> > > > > average 5'8 "

> > > > > > > guy.  I don't

> understand how I

> > > can have low

> > > > > T yet be

> > > > > > > muscular, be fit, and so

> forth? 

> > > Do you

> > > > > think that low

> > > > > > > T could also be preventing me

> from

> > > losing the

> > > > > extra

> > > > > > > weight?  Previously

> on my own

> > > diets it

> > > > > seemed like even

> > > > > > > on 2k calories a day I was

> struggling

> > > to lose

> > > > > weight,

> > > > > > > shouldn't that calorie amount

> with the

> > > amount of

> > > > > exercise I

> > > > > > > was doing burn the fat

> off?  My

> > > diet now is

> > > > > only around

> > > > > > > 1100-1200 calories, and I

> have lost

> > > about 15lbs

> > > > > in 3 weeks

> > > > > > > and I am down to 195lbs now,

> my diet

> > > will change

> > > > > tomorrow on

> > > > > > > Dr orders, but this was just

> a jump

> > > start type

> > > > > part of the

> > > > > > > program.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Overall for me I seemed to

> have all the

> > > emotional

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > mental symptoms more than the

> physical

> > > (except

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > weight).  I have had

> a lack of

> > > confidence,

> > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > drive (seems like everything

> I have

> > > been doing is

> > > > > sheer

> > > > > > > willpower), and also

> battling

> > > depression.  I

> > > > > have been

> > > > > > > this way for a very long

> time, who

> > > knows how

> > > > > long.  The

> > > > > > > labs showed my testes were

> ok, they

> > > suspected a

> > > > > pituitary

> > > > > > > tumor and I have had a MRI

> done last

> > > week that I

> > > > > am waiting

> > > > > > > to hear results back

> on.  In the

> > > mean time

> > > > > my Dr put me

> > > > > > > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I

> think this

> > > is the

> > > > > lowest

> > > > > > > dosage, but since my

> physical

> > > attributes were ok

> > > > > my Dr had

> > > > > > > even said one option was to

> not treat

> > > it but I

> > > > > wanted to go

> > > > > > > ahead and try.  I

> believe he is

> > > may be new

> > > > > to this

> > > > > > > treatment, he is an excellent

> bariatric

> > > doctor

> > > > > but only

> > > > > > > looks at these hormones when

> there are

> > > > > issues.  My

> > > > > > > workouts are better now and I

> recover

> > > faster, but

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > emotional/mental aspects have

> only

> > > slightly

> > > > > improved.

> > > > > > > However I am also only on day

> 14, I

> > > think I will

> > > > > not feel

> > > > > > > full results until 6-8

> weeks? 

> > > My weight has

> > > > > not moving

> > > > > > > down as fast as it was

> either, but

> > > perhaps that

> > > > > is muscle

> > > > > > > conservation or could just be

> the

> > > normal course

> > > > > when on a

> > > > > > > diet such as I have

> been.  I

> > > expected that

> > > > > it may speed

> > > > > > > up when on Androgel.

> > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > Are there any additional

> concerns I

> > > should have?

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Anything to look out

> for?  Will

> > > Androgel

> > > > > shut down my

> > > > > > > own T production, and if so

> what do I

> > > do about

> > > > > that?

> > > > > > > Have to use a higher Androgel

> dosage or

> > > are their

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > options?  Are there

> any natural

> > > remedies to

> > > > > bringing my

> > > > > > > T back inline?  I

> have tried

> > > Tribulus,

> > > > > Fenugreek, and

> > > > > > > things like that in the past

> and it

> > > seemed like

> > > > > the first

> > > > > > > few days my T felt like it

> was higher

> > > but it

> > > > > faded after

> > > > > > > that.  I honestly

> would rather

> > > not be on

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > testosterone if I could

> normalize it by

> > > other

> > > > > means.  I

> > > > > > > had some other blood work

> that was a

> > > little out

> > > > > of optimal

> > > > > > > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D

> a little

> > > low,

> > > > > cholesterol

> > > > > > > numbers a little off etc..),

> combined

> > > with my

> > > > > excess weight,

> > > > > > > my Dr said I may have a 30%

> chance

> > > testosterone

> > > > > could

> > > > > > > normalize once we get

> everything else

> > > normalized

> > > > > but my odds

> > > > > > > would be much greater if I

> were a lot

> > > > > heavier.  So

> > > > > > > maybe in a couple of months

> if my T

> > > has

> > > > > normalized on

> > > > > > > Androgel and my other blood

> work has as

> > > well we

> > > > > may take me

> > > > > > > off Androgel for a month and

> recheck

> > > it. 

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyways any advice is

> greatly

> > > appreciated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Matt please lookk for a knowledgable HRT dr in your area or you can PM me with

information on DR O and my self, but get proper Hormone evalution other wise you

are going to spend months or even years chasing your tail as I have untill I got

with a good DR. There are other factors that need to be explored such as

potential hidden stressors which needs to be ruled out.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: Matt <mattjon332@>

> > > > > > > Subject: New member,

> > > some

> > > > > questions

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:52 AM

> > > > > > > I am 31 years old and was recently

> > > > > > > diagnosed with Low T.  On two

> > > different AM

> > > > > blood draws

> > > > > > > 3 weeks apart I had 263 on one and 257

> > > on the

> > > > > other. I am

> > > > > > > very active, I do martial arts

> > > training,

> > > > > functional type

> > > > > > > workouts (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups,

> > > etc..),

> > > > > HIIT, and

> > > > > > > things like that at least ~10hrs a

> > > week,

> > > > > sometimes as much

> > > > > > > as 15-20hrs.  If you want to see

> > > what I

> > > > > actually do, I

> > > > > > > started blogging it in March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com,

it seems like my

> > > > > > > testosterone should be very high with

> > > this

> > > > > activity,

> > > > > > > especially considering my age? 

> > > I have been

> > > > > on an

> > > > > > > extremely low calorie diet since March

> > > 17th

> > > > > (doctor

> > > > > > > supervised and monitored) to lose my

> > > additional

> > > > > weight, so

> > > > > > > my activity did slow down some, but has

> > > started

> > > > > to pick back

> > > > > > > up. 

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What made me test my testosterone was

> > > that I have

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > trouble losing all the weight I need

> > > too.Â

> > > > > Over the

> > > > > > > course of 3 years I lost ~50lbs on my

> > > own with

> > > > > becoming

> > > > > > > active and cleaning up the diet a

> > > little, from

> > > > > ~260lbs to

> > > > > > > ~210lbs, but my ideal weight is more

> > > around

> > > > > > > 170-180lbs.  According to the

> > > segmented

> > > > > bio-impedance

> > > > > > > measurements I have 20-30% more muscle

> > > then the

> > > > > average 5'8 "

> > > > > > > guy.  I don't understand how I

> > > can have low

> > > > > T yet be

> > > > > > > muscular, be fit, and so forth? 

> > > Do you

> > > > > think that low

> > > > > > > T could also be preventing me from

> > > losing the

> > > > > extra

> > > > > > > weight?  Previously on my own

> > > diets it

> > > > > seemed like even

> > > > > > > on 2k calories a day I was struggling

> > > to lose

> > > > > weight,

> > > > > > > shouldn't that calorie amount with the

> > > amount of

> > > > > exercise I

> > > > > > > was doing burn the fat off?  My

> > > diet now is

> > > > > only around

> > > > > > > 1100-1200 calories, and I have lost

> > > about 15lbs

> > > > > in 3 weeks

> > > > > > > and I am down to 195lbs now, my diet

> > > will change

> > > > > tomorrow on

> > > > > > > Dr orders, but this was just a jump

> > > start type

> > > > > part of the

> > > > > > > program.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Overall for me I seemed to have all the

> > > emotional

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > mental symptoms more than the physical

> > > (except

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > weight).  I have had a lack of

> > > confidence,

> > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > drive (seems like everything I have

> > > been doing is

> > > > > sheer

> > > > > > > willpower), and also battling

> > > depression.  I

> > > > > have been

> > > > > > > this way for a very long time, who

> > > knows how

> > > > > long.  The

> > > > > > > labs showed my testes were ok, they

> > > suspected a

> > > > > pituitary

> > > > > > > tumor and I have had a MRI done last

> > > week that I

> > > > > am waiting

> > > > > > > to hear results back on.  In the

> > > mean time

> > > > > my Dr put me

> > > > > > > on 2.5g of Androgel a day, I think this

> > > is the

> > > > > lowest

> > > > > > > dosage, but since my physical

> > > attributes were ok

> > > > > my Dr had

> > > > > > > even said one option was to not treat

> > > it but I

> > > > > wanted to go

> > > > > > > ahead and try.  I believe he is

> > > may be new

> > > > > to this

> > > > > > > treatment, he is an excellent bariatric

> > > doctor

> > > > > but only

> > > > > > > looks at these hormones when there are

> > > > > issues.  My

> > > > > > > workouts are better now and I recover

> > > faster, but

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > emotional/mental aspects have only

> > > slightly

> > > > > improved.

> > > > > > > However I am also only on day 14, I

> > > think I will

> > > > > not feel

> > > > > > > full results until 6-8 weeks? 

> > > My weight has

> > > > > not moving

> > > > > > > down as fast as it was either, but

> > > perhaps that

> > > > > is muscle

> > > > > > > conservation or could just be the

> > > normal course

> > > > > when on a

> > > > > > > diet such as I have been.  I

> > > expected that

> > > > > it may speed

> > > > > > > up when on Androgel.

> > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > Are there any additional concerns I

> > > should have?

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Anything to look out for?  Will

> > > Androgel

> > > > > shut down my

> > > > > > > own T production, and if so what do I

> > > do about

> > > > > that?

> > > > > > > Have to use a higher Androgel dosage or

> > > are their

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > options?  Are there any natural

> > > remedies to

> > > > > bringing my

> > > > > > > T back inline?  I have tried

> > > Tribulus,

> > > > > Fenugreek, and

> > > > > > > things like that in the past and it

> > > seemed like

> > > > > the first

> > > > > > > few days my T felt like it was higher

> > > but it

> > > > > faded after

> > > > > > > that.  I honestly would rather

> > > not be on

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > testosterone if I could normalize it by

> > > other

> > > > > means.  I

> > > > > > > had some other blood work that was a

> > > little out

> > > > > of optimal

> > > > > > > (DHEA a little low, vitamin D a little

> > > low,

> > > > > cholesterol

> > > > > > > numbers a little off etc..), combined

> > > with my

> > > > > excess weight,

> > > > > > > my Dr said I may have a 30% chance

> > > testosterone

> > > > > could

> > > > > > > normalize once we get everything else

> > > normalized

> > > > > but my odds

> > > > > > > would be much greater if I were a lot

> > > > > heavier.  So

> > > > > > > maybe in a couple of months if my T

> > > has

> > > > > normalized on

> > > > > > > Androgel and my other blood work has as

> > > well we

> > > > > may take me

> > > > > > > off Androgel for a month and recheck

> > > it. 

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyways any advice is greatly

> > > appreciated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Contact info is hardasnails1973@...

484-868-0916

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: Matt

> > <mattjon332@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > New member,

> > > > > some

> > > > > > > questions

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, April 6,

> > 2010, 9:52 AM

> > > > > > > > > I am 31 years old and

> > was recently

> > > > > > > > > diagnosed with Low

> > T.  On two

> > > > > different AM

> > > > > > > blood draws

> > > > > > > > > 3 weeks apart I had 263

> > on one and 257

> > > > > on the

> > > > > > > other. I am

> > > > > > > > > very active, I do

> > martial arts

> > > > > training,

> > > > > > > functional type

> > > > > > > > > workouts (pushups,

> > pull-ups, sit-ups,

> > > > > etc..),

> > > > > > > HIIT, and

> > > > > > > > > things like that at

> > least ~10hrs a

> > > > > week,

> > > > > > > sometimes as much

> > > > > > > > > as 15-20hrs.  If

> > you want to see

> > > > > what I

> > > > > > > actually do, I

> > > > > > > > > started blogging it in

> > March at http://mattjon332.wordpress.com, it seems

> > like my

> > > > > > > > > testosterone should be

> > very high with

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > activity,

> > > > > > > > > especially considering

> > my age? 

> > > > > I have been

> > > > > > > on an

> > > > > > > > > extremely low calorie

> > diet since March

> > > > > 17th

> > > > > > > (doctor

> > > > > > > > > supervised and

> > monitored) to lose my

> > > > > additional

> > > > > > > weight, so

> > > > > > > > > my activity did slow

> > down some, but has

> > > > > started

> > > > > > > to pick back

> > > > > > > > > up. 

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What made me test my

> > testosterone was

> > > > > that I have

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > trouble losing all the

> > weight I need

> > > > > too.Â

> > > > > > > Over the

> > > > > > > > > course of 3 years I lost

> > ~50lbs on my

> > > > > own with

> > > > > > > becoming

> > > > > > > > > active and cleaning up

> > the diet a

> > > > > little, from

> > > > > > > ~260lbs to

> > > > > > > > > ~210lbs, but my ideal

> > weight is more

> > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > 170-180lbs. 

> > According to the

> > > > > segmented

> > > > > > > bio-impedance

> > > > > > > > > measurements I have

> > 20-30% more muscle

> > > > > then the

> > > > > > > average 5'8 "

> > > > > > > > > guy.  I don't

> > understand how I

> > > > > can have low

> > > > > > > T yet be

> > > > > > > > > muscular, be fit, and so

> > forth? 

> > > > > Do you

> > > > > > > think that low

> > > > > > > > > T could also be

> > preventing me from

> > > > > losing the

> > > > > > > extra

> > > > > > > > > weight? 

> > Previously on my own

> > > > > diets it

> > > > > > > seemed like even

> > > > > > > > > on 2k calories a day I

> > was struggling

> > > > > to lose

> > > > > > > weight,

> > > > > > > > > shouldn't that calorie

> > amount with the

> > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > exercise I

> > > > > > > > > was doing burn the fat

> > off?  My

> > > > > diet now is

> > > > > > > only around

> > > > > > > > > 1100-1200 calories, and

> > I have lost

> > > > > about 15lbs

> > > > > > > in 3 weeks

> > > > > > > > > and I am down to 195lbs

> > now, my diet

> > > > > will change

> > > > > > > tomorrow on

> > > > > > > > > Dr orders, but this was

> > just a jump

> > > > > start type

> > > > > > > part of the

> > > > > > > > > program.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Overall for me I seemed

> > to have all the

> > > > > emotional

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > mental symptoms more

> > than the physical

> > > > > (except

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > weight).  I have

> > had a lack of

> > > > > confidence,

> > > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > drive (seems like

> > everything I have

> > > > > been doing is

> > > > > > > sheer

> > > > > > > > > willpower), and also

> > battling

> > > > > depression.  I

> > > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > > this way for a very long

> > time, who

> > > > > knows how

> > > > > > > long.  The

> > > > > > > > > labs showed my testes

> > were ok, they

> > > > > suspected a

> > > > > > > pituitary

> > > > > > > > > tumor and I have had a

> > MRI done last

> > > > > week that I

> > > > > > > am waiting

> > > > > > > > > to hear results back

> > on.  In the

> > > > > mean time

> > > > > > > my Dr put me

> > > > > > > > > on 2.5g of Androgel a

> > day, I think this

> > > > > is the

> > > > > > > lowest

> > > > > > > > > dosage, but since my

> > physical

> > > > > attributes were ok

> > > > > > > my Dr had

> > > > > > > > > even said one option was

> > to not treat

> > > > > it but I

> > > > > > > wanted to go

> > > > > > > > > ahead and try. 

> > I believe he is

> > > > > may be new

> > > > > > > to this

> > > > > > > > > treatment, he is an

> > excellent bariatric

> > > > > doctor

> > > > > > > but only

> > > > > > > > > looks at these hormones

> > when there are

> > > > > > > issues.  My

> > > > > > > > > workouts are better now

> > and I recover

> > > > > faster, but

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > emotional/mental aspects

> > have only

> > > > > slightly

> > > > > > > improved.

> > > > > > > > > However I am also only

> > on day 14, I

> > > > > think I will

> > > > > > > not feel

> > > > > > > > > full results until 6-8

> > weeks? 

> > > > > My weight has

> > > > > > > not moving

> > > > > > > > > down as fast as it was

> > either, but

> > > > > perhaps that

> > > > > > > is muscle

> > > > > > > > > conservation or could

> > just be the

> > > > > normal course

> > > > > > > when on a

> > > > > > > > > diet such as I have

> > been.  I

> > > > > expected that

> > > > > > > it may speed

> > > > > > > > > up when on Androgel.

> > > > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > > > Are there any additional

> > concerns I

> > > > > should have?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anything to look out

> > for?  Will

> > > > > Androgel

> > > > > > > shut down my

> > > > > > > > > own T production, and if

> > so what do I

> > > > > do about

> > > > > > > that?

> > > > > > > > > Have to use a higher

> > Androgel dosage or

> > > > > are their

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > options?  Are

> > there any natural

> > > > > remedies to

> > > > > > > bringing my

> > > > > > > > > T back inline? 

> > I have tried

> > > > > Tribulus,

> > > > > > > Fenugreek, and

> > > > > > > > > things like that in the

> > past and it

> > > > > seemed like

> > > > > > > the first

> > > > > > > > > few days my T felt like

> > it was higher

> > > > > but it

> > > > > > > faded after

> > > > > > > > > that.  I

> > honestly would rather

> > > > > not be on

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > testosterone if I could

> > normalize it by

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > means.  I

> > > > > > > > > had some other blood

> > work that was a

> > > > > little out

> > > > > > > of optimal

> > > > > > > > > (DHEA a little low,

> > vitamin D a little

> > > > > low,

> > > > > > > cholesterol

> > > > > > > > > numbers a little off

> > etc..), combined

> > > > > with my

> > > > > > > excess weight,

> > > > > > > > > my Dr said I may have a

> > 30% chance

> > > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > normalize once we get

> > everything else

> > > > > normalized

> > > > > > > but my odds

> > > > > > > > > would be much greater if

> > I were a lot

> > > > > > > heavier.  So

> > > > > > > > > maybe in a couple of

> > months if my T

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > normalized on

> > > > > > > > > Androgel and my other

> > blood work has as

> > > > > well we

> > > > > > > may take me

> > > > > > > > > off Androgel for a month

> > and recheck

> > > > > it. 

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anyways any advice is

> > greatly

> > > > > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >