Re: Hypogonagism without insurance

[Guest guest]

Why not quit messing around and go see Dr. Crisler? Office visit, plane ticket,

and everything should run you less than $1000 (one time). After that your meds

should cost you about $50 a month or so, plus you will have random blood work

and phone follow ups which are cheap. It's crazy that so many people remain

miserable when there are easy and cost effective options. No one is limited by

their local endo or overcharging " stay young " clinic. Make it happen! Best

wishes.

>

> Hello all,

> I'm a 47 year old male that was diagnosed with low T three years ago. It

all started when I had an accident at work and tore my quadricep tendon. This

was followed by surgery and 13 months of physical therapy, while taking

100-150mg/day of hydrocodone. The physical therapy was followed with work

conditioning, which consisted of 4 hrs./day of weight training. I had no energy

and my body was constantly shutting down to the point that I didn't have the

energy to get out of a chair. I was depressed, had no interest in sex whatsoever

and basically gave up on everything. My complaints to the doctor were ignored,

as the workers comp insurance company decided what treatments I would/wouldn't

receive. The doctor finally demanded to check my T levels, as my symptoms

couldn't be ignored anymore. My levels were vey low (150-160) and he put me on

Androgel(5g/day). After two months there was no change, so he changed it to

10g/day. A couple months later I started feeling better and felt like living

again. My levels were checked and were around 300. The insurance company decided

that this was a normal level an discontinued treatment.

>

> Two years later bring us to today. My knee has not recovered well. It has

been determined that I cannot return to work as I knew it. My job is long gone

and so is my insurance. Finding a new job/insurance with my physical

restrictions is impossible.

>

> The past year has been pretty grim. I have the same feeling of

weekness/depression/lack of desire. Last month, my wife finally had enough and

made me get checked again. I went to a urologist and my level was 189. He put me

on 5gm/day of Testim, as he said it worked better that Androgel. He said he

wanted me on it a for a couple of years. He wants to see me and check levels

monthly for the first six months, then once every six months after that.

>

> The office visit was $113, the blood test was $195 and a 30 day supply of

Testim is $300. That's $600 a month that I just don't have. To make things

worse, I don't feel any change with the 5gm/day Testim. If he bumps it up to

10gm/day, that will be another $300/month.

>

> As much as I want/need to continue this treatment, I can't do it. I'm

afraid my quality of life will continue to decline to the point where

(nevermind).

>

> I would love to hear from others who are in the same situation. I would

also appreciate any ideas on how to get treatment that's affordable. Thanks for

reading and sorry for rambling...

>

> Jeff

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff and Welcome,

If you can't afford the gels switch to Compounded Gels or Creams I think they

are 1/4 the cost of Androgel or Testim. All you need to do is have your Dr.

call them Fax over your labs the mix it to what you need. Between labs and dose

you will get your levels up.

Or the lowest cost of TRT is shots have your Dr. show you how to do them your

self. You can get a vial of Test cypionate that can last you 20 weeks for about

$110.

Here is a link about compounding pharmacies it a site for women wanting to

become men but it's full of dam good info.

http://www.ftmguide.org/compounding.html

For most men all you need to do is get your Total T levels up into the upper 1/3

of our labs range and to keep your Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml.

Do get your Estradiol levels checked if your high let us know we can tell you

how to get them down. Most of what your feeling is high Estraidol and it will

kill our sex life and zap your energy.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: tendertendon <tendertendon@...>

> Subject: Hypogonagism without insurance

>

> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 10:05 AM

> Hello all,

>    I'm a 47 year old male that was diagnosed

> with low T three years ago. It all started when I had an

> accident at work and tore my quadricep tendon. This was

> followed by surgery and 13 months of physical therapy, while

> taking 100-150mg/day of hydrocodone. The physical therapy

> was followed with work conditioning, which consisted of 4

> hrs./day of weight training. I had no energy and my body was

> constantly shutting down to the point that I didn't have the

> energy to get out of a chair. I was depressed, had no

> interest in sex whatsoever and basically gave up on

> everything. My complaints to the doctor were ignored, as the

> workers comp insurance company decided what treatments I

> would/wouldn't receive. The doctor finally demanded to check

> my T levels, as my symptoms couldn't be ignored anymore. My

> levels were vey low (150-160) and he put me on

> Androgel(5g/day). After two months there was no change, so

> he changed it to 10g/day. A couple months later I started

> feeling better and felt like living again. My levels were

> checked and were around 300. The insurance company decided

> that this was a normal level an discontinued treatment.

>

>    Two years later bring us to today. My

> knee has not recovered well. It has been determined that I

> cannot return to work as I knew it. My job is long gone and

> so is my insurance. Finding a new job/insurance with my

> physical restrictions is impossible.

>

>    The past year has been pretty grim. I

> have the same feeling of weekness/depression/lack of desire.

> Last month, my wife finally had enough and made me get

> checked again. I went to a urologist and my level was 189.

> He put me on 5gm/day of Testim, as he said it worked better

> that Androgel. He said he wanted me on it a for a couple of

> years. He wants to see me and check levels monthly for the

> first six months, then once every six months after that.

>

>    The office visit was $113, the blood test

> was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim is $300. That's $600

> a month that I just don't have. To make things worse, I

> don't feel any change with the 5gm/day Testim. If he bumps

> it up to 10gm/day, that will be another $300/month.

>

>    As much as I want/need to continue this

> treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my quality of life will

> continue to decline to the point where (nevermind).

>

>    I would love to hear from others who are

> in the same situation. I would also appreciate any ideas on

> how to get treatment that's affordable. Thanks for reading

> and sorry for rambling...

>

> Jeff

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

We are in the same boat; no insurance.  I have gone through the Androgel costs

issues as well.  What I do now is this:

I do injections rather than gels.  I pay $69.99 for a 10ml vial of

Testosterone-Cypionate at Walgreen's.  They have a " Walgreen's Club " that costs

something like $39 a year.  This gets you discounted pricing on meds.  I think

the non-Club price for the is around $100-120.  So, joining the Club pays for

itself right off.  The needles and syringes are only 25 cents a piece.  I use

a

1ml syringe, a 22 gauge needle to draw the T-Cyp out of the vial, and a 25 gauge

1 " needle to inject with.  Others on this board use a different approach - they

use a finer, shorter needle to inject with such as a 27 gauge 1/2 " needle.  My

experience in using the longer, thicker needle (25 ga.) over the shorter,

thinner needle (27 ga.) is that the 25 ga. gets the T-Cyp depper into the

muscle

and the T seems to be released into my system at a more consistent rate.  The

27

ga. doesn't hurt at all, the 25 ga. hurts a tiny bit.  I push it in real slow

and it doesn't hurt.

What you paid for blood tests is quite a good price, so you won't likely be

able

to better that expense. 

I can't afford the tests.  My doc is very sensitive to my having no insurance

and does what he can in only doing tests every so often.  When I started with

him the only test he had run was a 24-hour urine test that costs $225.  That's

the only test he's run since I started seeing him (about 4 montths ago).  I

expect if I had insurance he would be doing tests more often. 

So... I handle the costs by injecting instead of using gel and I don't get many

tests.  I also take Arimidex to help control the E2 that goes up from the

shots.  Since I don't get tests done, I have to guess on what my T and E2

levels

on based on how I feel.  I would rather know what my levels are, but I can't

affrod the tests, so I just deal with it.  Some days are good, some aren't,

but

overall I'm better than I was before I started the TRT. 

I have not tried the compounded creams.  If those are affordable for you, you

may want to use the creams because you will have more even levels of T and less

chance of driving your E2 up. 

Hope this helps.

Bill

________________________________

From: tendertendon <tendertendon@...>

Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 7:05:33 AM

Subject: Hypogonagism without insurance

 

Hello all,

I'm a 47 year old male that was diagnosed with low T three years ago. It all

started when I had an accident at work and tore my quadricep tendon. This was

followed by surgery and 13 months of physical therapy, while taking

100-150mg/day of hydrocodone. The physical therapy was followed with work

conditioning, which consisted of 4 hrs./day of weight training. I had no energy

and my body was constantly shutting down to the point that I didn't have the

energy to get out of a chair. I was depressed, had no interest in sex whatsoever

and basically gave up on everything. My complaints to the doctor were ignored,

as the workers comp insurance company decided what treatments I would/wouldn't

receive. The doctor finally demanded to check my T levels, as my symptoms

couldn't be ignored anymore. My levels were vey low (150-160) and he put me on

Androgel(5g/day). After two months there was no change, so he changed it to

10g/day. A couple months later I started feeling better and felt like living

again. My levels were checked and were around 300. The insurance company decided

that this was a normal level an discontinued treatment.

Two years later bring us to today. My knee has not recovered well. It has been

determined that I cannot return to work as I knew it. My job is long gone and so

is my insurance. Finding a new job/insurance with my physical restrictions is

impossible.

The past year has been pretty grim. I have the same feeling of

weekness/depression/lack of desire. Last month, my wife finally had enough and

made me get checked again. I went to a urologist and my level was 189. He put me

on 5gm/day of Testim, as he said it worked better that Androgel. He said he

wanted me on it a for a couple of years. He wants to see me and check levels

monthly for the first six months, then once every six months after that.

The office visit was $113, the blood test was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim

is $300. That's $600 a month that I just don't have. To make things worse, I

don't feel any change with the 5gm/day Testim. If he bumps it up to 10gm/day,

that will be another $300/month.

As much as I want/need to continue this treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my

quality of life will continue to decline to the point where (nevermind).

I would love to hear from others who are in the same situation. I would also

appreciate any ideas on how to get treatment that's affordable. Thanks for

reading and sorry for rambling...

Jeff

[Guest guest]

I get my T cream at Life Extension Foundation Pharmacy - lef.org. 10% T I pay

$40 for two months worth. That includes shipping.

I get my HCG at adc.com. A months worth is about $20 including shipping ( I buy

5 months worth at a time to offset the $25 shipping cost).

I use Femara 2.5 Generic : Letrozole instead of Arimidex - I find it responds

more quickly to adjustments to varying E2 than Arimidex - usually within a day

and costs me about $10 per month. It has a half life of 45 hours

(http://www.infertilityspecialist.com/letrozole.html) vs 72+ for Arimidex

depending who you read.

Total cost is about $50 per month.

>

> > From: tendertendon <tendertendon@...>

> > Subject: Hypogonagism without insurance

> >

> > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 10:05 AM

> > Hello all,

> >    I'm a 47 year old male that was diagnosed

> > with low T three years ago. It all started when I had an

> > accident at work and tore my quadricep tendon. This was

> > followed by surgery and 13 months of physical therapy, while

> > taking 100-150mg/day of hydrocodone. The physical therapy

> > was followed with work conditioning, which consisted of 4

> > hrs./day of weight training. I had no energy and my body was

> > constantly shutting down to the point that I didn't have the

> > energy to get out of a chair. I was depressed, had no

> > interest in sex whatsoever and basically gave up on

> > everything. My complaints to the doctor were ignored, as the

> > workers comp insurance company decided what treatments I

> > would/wouldn't receive. The doctor finally demanded to check

> > my T levels, as my symptoms couldn't be ignored anymore. My

> > levels were vey low (150-160) and he put me on

> > Androgel(5g/day). After two months there was no change, so

> > he changed it to 10g/day. A couple months later I started

> > feeling better and felt like living again. My levels were

> > checked and were around 300. The insurance company decided

> > that this was a normal level an discontinued treatment.

> >

> >    Two years later bring us to today. My

> > knee has not recovered well. It has been determined that I

> > cannot return to work as I knew it. My job is long gone and

> > so is my insurance. Finding a new job/insurance with my

> > physical restrictions is impossible.

> >

> >    The past year has been pretty grim. I

> > have the same feeling of weekness/depression/lack of desire.

> > Last month, my wife finally had enough and made me get

> > checked again. I went to a urologist and my level was 189.

> > He put me on 5gm/day of Testim, as he said it worked better

> > that Androgel. He said he wanted me on it a for a couple of

> > years. He wants to see me and check levels monthly for the

> > first six months, then once every six months after that.

> >

> >    The office visit was $113, the blood test

> > was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim is $300. That's $600

> > a month that I just don't have. To make things worse, I

> > don't feel any change with the 5gm/day Testim. If he bumps

> > it up to 10gm/day, that will be another $300/month.

> >

> >    As much as I want/need to continue this

> > treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my quality of life will

> > continue to decline to the point where (nevermind).

> >

> >    I would love to hear from others who are

> > in the same situation. I would also appreciate any ideas on

> > how to get treatment that's affordable. Thanks for reading

> > and sorry for rambling...

> >

> > Jeff

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Tell me more about Letrozole what dose do you take and how often. Arimidex is

not doing the job for men anymore I might need a change.

http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/letrozole-bodybuilders-femara

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ihor n <ihor43us@...>

> Subject: Re: Hypogonagism without insurance

>

> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 4:43 PM

> I get my T cream at Life Extension

> Foundation Pharmacy - lef.org. 10% T I pay $40 for two

> months worth. That includes shipping.

>

> I get my HCG at adc.com. A months worth is about $20

> including shipping ( I buy 5 months worth at a time to

> offset the $25 shipping cost).

>

> I use Femara 2.5 Generic : Letrozole instead of Arimidex -

> I find it responds more quickly to adjustments to varying E2

> than Arimidex - usually within a day and costs me about $10

> per month. It has a half life of 45 hours

(http://www.infertilityspecialist.com/letrozole.html) vs

> 72+ for Arimidex depending who you read.

>

> Total cost is about $50 per month.

>

>

> >

> > > From: tendertendon <tendertendon@...>

> > > Subject: Hypogonagism without

> insurance

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 10:05 AM

> > > Hello all,

> > >    I'm a 47 year old male that was diagnosed

> > > with low T three years ago. It all started when I

> had an

> > > accident at work and tore my quadricep tendon.

> This was

> > > followed by surgery and 13 months of physical

> therapy, while

> > > taking 100-150mg/day of hydrocodone. The physical

> therapy

> > > was followed with work conditioning, which

> consisted of 4

> > > hrs./day of weight training. I had no energy and

> my body was

> > > constantly shutting down to the point that I

> didn't have the

> > > energy to get out of a chair. I was depressed,

> had no

> > > interest in sex whatsoever and basically gave up

> on

> > > everything. My complaints to the doctor were

> ignored, as the

> > > workers comp insurance company decided what

> treatments I

> > > would/wouldn't receive. The doctor finally

> demanded to check

> > > my T levels, as my symptoms couldn't be ignored

> anymore. My

> > > levels were vey low (150-160) and he put me on

> > > Androgel(5g/day). After two months there was no

> change, so

> > > he changed it to 10g/day. A couple months later I

> started

> > > feeling better and felt like living again. My

> levels were

> > > checked and were around 300. The insurance

> company decided

> > > that this was a normal level an discontinued

> treatment.

> > >

> > >    Two years later bring us to today. My

> > > knee has not recovered well. It has been

> determined that I

> > > cannot return to work as I knew it. My job is

> long gone and

> > > so is my insurance. Finding a new job/insurance

> with my

> > > physical restrictions is impossible.

> > >

> > >    The past year has been pretty grim. I

> > > have the same feeling of weekness/depression/lack

> of desire.

> > > Last month, my wife finally had enough and made

> me get

> > > checked again. I went to a urologist and my level

> was 189.

> > > He put me on 5gm/day of Testim, as he said it

> worked better

> > > that Androgel. He said he wanted me on it a for a

> couple of

> > > years. He wants to see me and check levels

> monthly for the

> > > first six months, then once every six months

> after that.

> > >

> > >    The office visit was $113, the blood test

> > > was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim is $300.

> That's $600

> > > a month that I just don't have. To make things

> worse, I

> > > don't feel any change with the 5gm/day Testim. If

> he bumps

> > > it up to 10gm/day, that will be another

> $300/month.

> > >

> > >    As much as I want/need to continue this

> > > treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my quality

> of life will

> > > continue to decline to the point where

> (nevermind).

> > >

> > >    I would love to hear from others who are

> > > in the same situation. I would also appreciate

> any ideas on

> > > how to get treatment that's affordable. Thanks

> for reading

> > > and sorry for rambling...

> > >

> > > Jeff

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

The HCG has increased my TT to 794 from 495 which was increased from 156 by the

100mg testosterone via cream. The free T was increased to 33.4 from 19 (the

cream increased it from 8). I have dropped the cream to 50mg per day as of

today.

I am currently taking 5mg letrozole per day to drop my E2 to 26 from 56. This

will change as I decrease the exogenous T. My hope is that eventually the HCG

alone will be enough to keep my T where it needs to be.

> > >

> > > > From: tendertendon <tendertendon@>

> > > > Subject: Hypogonagism without

> > insurance

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 10:05 AM

> > > > Hello all,

> > > >    I'm a 47 year old male that was diagnosed

> > > > with low T three years ago. It all started when I

> > had an

> > > > accident at work and tore my quadricep tendon.

> > This was

> > > > followed by surgery and 13 months of physical

> > therapy, while

> > > > taking 100-150mg/day of hydrocodone. The physical

> > therapy

> > > > was followed with work conditioning, which

> > consisted of 4

> > > > hrs./day of weight training. I had no energy and

> > my body was

> > > > constantly shutting down to the point that I

> > didn't have the

> > > > energy to get out of a chair. I was depressed,

> > had no

> > > > interest in sex whatsoever and basically gave up

> > on

> > > > everything. My complaints to the doctor were

> > ignored, as the

> > > > workers comp insurance company decided what

> > treatments I

> > > > would/wouldn't receive. The doctor finally

> > demanded to check

> > > > my T levels, as my symptoms couldn't be ignored

> > anymore. My

> > > > levels were vey low (150-160) and he put me on

> > > > Androgel(5g/day). After two months there was no

> > change, so

> > > > he changed it to 10g/day. A couple months later I

> > started

> > > > feeling better and felt like living again. My

> > levels were

> > > > checked and were around 300. The insurance

> > company decided

> > > > that this was a normal level an discontinued

> > treatment.

> > > >

> > > >    Two years later bring us to today. My

> > > > knee has not recovered well. It has been

> > determined that I

> > > > cannot return to work as I knew it. My job is

> > long gone and

> > > > so is my insurance. Finding a new job/insurance

> > with my

> > > > physical restrictions is impossible.

> > > >

> > > >    The past year has been pretty grim. I

> > > > have the same feeling of weekness/depression/lack

> > of desire.

> > > > Last month, my wife finally had enough and made

> > me get

> > > > checked again. I went to a urologist and my level

> > was 189.

> > > > He put me on 5gm/day of Testim, as he said it

> > worked better

> > > > that Androgel. He said he wanted me on it a for a

> > couple of

> > > > years. He wants to see me and check levels

> > monthly for the

> > > > first six months, then once every six months

> > after that.

> > > >

> > > >    The office visit was $113, the blood test

> > > > was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim is $300.

> > That's $600

> > > > a month that I just don't have. To make things

> > worse, I

> > > > don't feel any change with the 5gm/day Testim. If

> > he bumps

> > > > it up to 10gm/day, that will be another

> > $300/month.

> > > >

> > > >    As much as I want/need to continue this

> > > > treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my quality

> > of life will

> > > > continue to decline to the point where

> > (nevermind).

> > > >

> > > >    I would love to hear from others who are

> > > > in the same situation. I would also appreciate

> > any ideas on

> > > > how to get treatment that's affordable. Thanks

> > for reading

> > > > and sorry for rambling...

> > > >

> > > > Jeff

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

So it sounds to me like your having a Problem with higher levels of Estradiol

too. Your taking double the avg. dose. I was doing great with Arimidex at .25

mgs or 1/4 of the pill every 2 to 3 days. I went on HCG last Nov. but about 2

weeks before this my estraidol levels went nuts now I need .5 to .75 mgs

everyday.

I feel it's the HCG I think my testis are desensitized to it. When I first went

on HCG I did 500 IU's 3x's a week after the 15th shot we did labs and my Total T

doubled they went from 600 on 150 mgs of Test C shot a week to 1200 this is how

we figured out I am Secondary. Over time we lowered my Dose and my levels

stayed up. So I did not need that much any thing your testis can't use will

convert into Estradiol.

So now I feel my problem with high Estradiol is the HCG and my testis not using

it.

I did try HCG everyday 100 IU's my levels were good but I did not feel all that

great.

I just did labs last Tue. and see my Dr. in a week if my Estradiol levels are

still high on this dose I am going to ask my Dr. for the next 8 weeks if we can

stop the HCG to see if this helps.

I have read men can become desensitized to HCG and they needed to stop it for a

time so there Testis would go back to normal.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ihor n <ihor43us@...>

> Subject: Re: Hypogonagism without insurance

>

> Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 11:23 AM

> The HCG has increased my TT to 794

> from 495 which was increased from 156 by the 100mg

> testosterone via cream. The free T was increased to 33.4

> from 19 (the cream increased it from 8). I have dropped the

> cream to 50mg per day as of today.

>

> I am currently taking 5mg letrozole per day to drop my E2

> to 26 from 56. This will change as I decrease the exogenous

> T. My hope is that eventually the HCG alone will be enough

> to keep my T where it needs to be.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: tendertendon

> <tendertendon@>

> > > > > Subject: Hypogonagism

> without

> > > insurance

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 10:05

> AM

> > > > > Hello all,

> > > > >    I'm a 47 year old male that was

> diagnosed

> > > > > with low T three years ago. It all

> started when I

> > > had an

> > > > > accident at work and tore my quadricep

> tendon.

> > > This was

> > > > > followed by surgery and 13 months of

> physical

> > > therapy, while

> > > > > taking 100-150mg/day of hydrocodone.

> The physical

> > > therapy

> > > > > was followed with work conditioning,

> which

> > > consisted of 4

> > > > > hrs./day of weight training. I had no

> energy and

> > > my body was

> > > > > constantly shutting down to the point

> that I

> > > didn't have the

> > > > > energy to get out of a chair. I was

> depressed,

> > > had no

> > > > > interest in sex whatsoever and

> basically gave up

> > > on

> > > > > everything. My complaints to the doctor

> were

> > > ignored, as the

> > > > > workers comp insurance company decided

> what

> > > treatments I

> > > > > would/wouldn't receive. The doctor

> finally

> > > demanded to check

> > > > > my T levels, as my symptoms couldn't be

> ignored

> > > anymore. My

> > > > > levels were vey low (150-160) and he

> put me on

> > > > > Androgel(5g/day). After two months

> there was no

> > > change, so

> > > > > he changed it to 10g/day. A couple

> months later I

> > > started

> > > > > feeling better and felt like living

> again. My

> > > levels were

> > > > > checked and were around 300. The

> insurance

> > > company decided

> > > > > that this was a normal level an

> discontinued

> > > treatment.

> > > > >

> > > > >    Two years later bring us to

> today. My

> > > > > knee has not recovered well. It has

> been

> > > determined that I

> > > > > cannot return to work as I knew it. My

> job is

> > > long gone and

> > > > > so is my insurance. Finding a new

> job/insurance

> > > with my

> > > > > physical restrictions is impossible.

> > > > >

> > > > >    The past year has been pretty

> grim. I

> > > > > have the same feeling of

> weekness/depression/lack

> > > of desire.

> > > > > Last month, my wife finally had enough

> and made

> > > me get

> > > > > checked again. I went to a urologist

> and my level

> > > was 189.

> > > > > He put me on 5gm/day of Testim, as he

> said it

> > > worked better

> > > > > that Androgel. He said he wanted me on

> it a for a

> > > couple of

> > > > > years. He wants to see me and check

> levels

> > > monthly for the

> > > > > first six months, then once every six

> months

> > > after that.

> > > > >

> > > > >    The office visit was $113, the

> blood test

> > > > > was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim

> is $300.

> > > That's $600

> > > > > a month that I just don't have. To make

> things

> > > worse, I

> > > > > don't feel any change with the 5gm/day

> Testim. If

> > > he bumps

> > > > > it up to 10gm/day, that will be

> another

> > > $300/month.

> > > > >

> > > > >    As much as I want/need to

> continue this

> > > > > treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my

> quality

> > > of life will

> > > > > continue to decline to the point where

> > > (nevermind).

> > > > >

> > > > >    I would love to hear from others

> who are

> > > > > in the same situation. I would also

> appreciate

> > > any ideas on

> > > > > how to get treatment that's affordable.

> Thanks

> > > for reading

> > > > > and sorry for rambling...

> > > > >

> > > > > Jeff

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

By dropping the exogenous T, I hope to determine whether it is the Cream or the

HCG.

I am doing about 100 IU every morning.

Plan to get labs in about a week.

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: tendertendon

> > <tendertendon@>

> > > > > > Subject: Hypogonagism

> > without

> > > > insurance

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 10:05

> > AM

> > > > > > Hello all,

> > > > > >    I'm a 47 year old male that was

> > diagnosed

> > > > > > with low T three years ago. It all

> > started when I

> > > > had an

> > > > > > accident at work and tore my quadricep

> > tendon.

> > > > This was

> > > > > > followed by surgery and 13 months of

> > physical

> > > > therapy, while

> > > > > > taking 100-150mg/day of hydrocodone.

> > The physical

> > > > therapy

> > > > > > was followed with work conditioning,

> > which

> > > > consisted of 4

> > > > > > hrs./day of weight training. I had no

> > energy and

> > > > my body was

> > > > > > constantly shutting down to the point

> > that I

> > > > didn't have the

> > > > > > energy to get out of a chair. I was

> > depressed,

> > > > had no

> > > > > > interest in sex whatsoever and

> > basically gave up

> > > > on

> > > > > > everything. My complaints to the doctor

> > were

> > > > ignored, as the

> > > > > > workers comp insurance company decided

> > what

> > > > treatments I

> > > > > > would/wouldn't receive. The doctor

> > finally

> > > > demanded to check

> > > > > > my T levels, as my symptoms couldn't be

> > ignored

> > > > anymore. My

> > > > > > levels were vey low (150-160) and he

> > put me on

> > > > > > Androgel(5g/day). After two months

> > there was no

> > > > change, so

> > > > > > he changed it to 10g/day. A couple

> > months later I

> > > > started

> > > > > > feeling better and felt like living

> > again. My

> > > > levels were

> > > > > > checked and were around 300. The

> > insurance

> > > > company decided

> > > > > > that this was a normal level an

> > discontinued

> > > > treatment.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >    Two years later bring us to

> > today. My

> > > > > > knee has not recovered well. It has

> > been

> > > > determined that I

> > > > > > cannot return to work as I knew it. My

> > job is

> > > > long gone and

> > > > > > so is my insurance. Finding a new

> > job/insurance

> > > > with my

> > > > > > physical restrictions is impossible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >    The past year has been pretty

> > grim. I

> > > > > > have the same feeling of

> > weekness/depression/lack

> > > > of desire.

> > > > > > Last month, my wife finally had enough

> > and made

> > > > me get

> > > > > > checked again. I went to a urologist

> > and my level

> > > > was 189.

> > > > > > He put me on 5gm/day of Testim, as he

> > said it

> > > > worked better

> > > > > > that Androgel. He said he wanted me on

> > it a for a

> > > > couple of

> > > > > > years. He wants to see me and check

> > levels

> > > > monthly for the

> > > > > > first six months, then once every six

> > months

> > > > after that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >    The office visit was $113, the

> > blood test

> > > > > > was $195 and a 30 day supply of Testim

> > is $300.

> > > > That's $600

> > > > > > a month that I just don't have. To make

> > things

> > > > worse, I

> > > > > > don't feel any change with the 5gm/day

> > Testim. If

> > > > he bumps

> > > > > > it up to 10gm/day, that will be

> > another

> > > > $300/month.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >    As much as I want/need to

> > continue this

> > > > > > treatment, I can't do it. I'm afraid my

> > quality

> > > > of life will

> > > > > > continue to decline to the point where

> > > > (nevermind).

> > > > > >

> > > > > >    I would love to hear from others

> > who are

> > > > > > in the same situation. I would also

> > appreciate

> > > > any ideas on

> > > > > > how to get treatment that's affordable.

> > Thanks

> > > > for reading

> > > > > > and sorry for rambling...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jeff

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I tried doing 100 IU's everyday someone told me because I am Secondary this

would work great so I stopped my T shots and did this. I had good levels but it

drove up my Estradiol levels and I did not feel as good on it as I did doing

both HCG and T shots. So I even tried doing the T shots with HCG everyday this

drive my Estradiol levels nuts.

I am going to talk to my Dr. about taking a break from HCG and see if this helps

me with my high levels of Estradiol. I can't help but think this is growing

into a big problem for me I need to know why it's so high. Yes people say being

older and over weight is why but look at all the men over weight that don't have

them problems. I have friends my age and over weight that because of my hormone

problems they got there levels checked and are good not to high on estradiol and

just a little on the low side of T.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ihor n <ihor43us@...>

> Subject: Re: Hypogonagism without insurance

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 11:14 AM

> By dropping the exogenous T, I hope

> to determine whether it is the Cream or the HCG.

>

> I am doing about 100 IU every morning.

>

> Plan to get labs in about a week.

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: tendertendon

> > > <tendertendon@>

> > > > > > > Subject:

> Hypogonagism

> > > without

> > > > > insurance

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 22,

> 2010, 10:05

> > > AM

> > > > > > > Hello all,

> > > > > > >    I'm a 47 year old male

> that was

> > > diagnosed

> > > > > > > with low T three years ago.

> It all

> > > started when I

> > > > > had an

> > > > > > > accident at work and tore my

> quadricep

> > > tendon.

> > > > > This was

> > > > > > > followed by surgery and 13

> months of

> > > physical

> > > > > therapy, while

> > > > > > > taking 100-150mg/day of

> hydrocodone.

> > > The physical

> > > > > therapy

> > > > > > > was followed with work

> conditioning,

> > > which

> > > > > consisted of 4

> > > > > > > hrs./day of weight training.

> I had no

> > > energy and

> > > > > my body was

> > > > > > > constantly shutting down to

> the point

> > > that I

> > > > > didn't have the

> > > > > > > energy to get out of a chair.

> I was

> > > depressed,

> > > > > had no

> > > > > > > interest in sex whatsoever

> and

> > > basically gave up

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > everything. My complaints to

> the doctor

> > > were

> > > > > ignored, as the

> > > > > > > workers comp insurance

> company decided

> > > what

> > > > > treatments I

> > > > > > > would/wouldn't receive. The

> doctor

> > > finally

> > > > > demanded to check

> > > > > > > my T levels, as my symptoms

> couldn't be

> > > ignored

> > > > > anymore. My

> > > > > > > levels were vey low (150-160)

> and he

> > > put me on

> > > > > > > Androgel(5g/day). After two

> months

> > > there was no

> > > > > change, so

> > > > > > > he changed it to 10g/day. A

> couple

> > > months later I

> > > > > started

> > > > > > > feeling better and felt like

> living

> > > again. My

> > > > > levels were

> > > > > > > checked and were around 300.

> The

> > > insurance

> > > > > company decided

> > > > > > > that this was a normal level

> an

> > > discontinued

> > > > > treatment.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >    Two years later bring

> us to

> > > today. My

> > > > > > > knee has not recovered well.

> It has

> > > been

> > > > > determined that I

> > > > > > > cannot return to work as I

> knew it. My

> > > job is

> > > > > long gone and

> > > > > > > so is my insurance. Finding a

> new

> > > job/insurance

> > > > > with my

> > > > > > > physical restrictions is

> impossible.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >    The past year has been

> pretty

> > > grim. I

> > > > > > > have the same feeling of

> > > weekness/depression/lack

> > > > > of desire.

> > > > > > > Last month, my wife finally

> had enough

> > > and made

> > > > > me get

> > > > > > > checked again. I went to a

> urologist

> > > and my level

> > > > > was 189.

> > > > > > > He put me on 5gm/day of

> Testim, as he

> > > said it

> > > > > worked better

> > > > > > > that Androgel. He said he

> wanted me on

> > > it a for a

> > > > > couple of

> > > > > > > years. He wants to see me and

> check

> > > levels

> > > > > monthly for the

> > > > > > > first six months, then once

> every six

> > > months

> > > > > after that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >    The office visit was

> $113, the

> > > blood test

> > > > > > > was $195 and a 30 day supply

> of Testim

> > > is $300.

> > > > > That's $600

> > > > > > > a month that I just don't

> have. To make

> > > things

> > > > > worse, I

> > > > > > > don't feel any change with

> the 5gm/day

> > > Testim. If

> > > > > he bumps

> > > > > > > it up to 10gm/day, that will

> be

> > > another

> > > > > $300/month.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >    As much as I want/need

> to

> > > continue this

> > > > > > > treatment, I can't do it. I'm

> afraid my

> > > quality

> > > > > of life will

> > > > > > > continue to decline to the

> point where

> > > > > (nevermind).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >    I would love to hear

> from others

> > > who are

> > > > > > > in the same situation. I

> would also

> > > appreciate

> > > > > any ideas on

> > > > > > > how to get treatment that's

> affordable.

> > > Thanks

> > > > > for reading

> > > > > > > and sorry for rambling...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jeff

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

My strategy is to determine how low I can go with the cream while doing the HCG

and still maintaining the levels of T I want. Once this is done I plan to

decrease the HCG gradually while monitoring the FT and TT as well as E2 levels.

This should give me the optimal exogenous T via cream and combination.

I will keep you posted. BTW, I am secondary as well by the looks of things. If I

was primary the HCG would do nothing.

Also, I am losing weight. Probably a combination of the HCG and the increased T.

Ihor

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: tendertendon

> > > > <tendertendon@>

> > > > > > > > Subject:

> > Hypogonagism

> > > > without

> > > > > > insurance

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 22,

> > 2010, 10:05

> > > > AM

> > > > > > > > Hello all,

> > > > > > > >    I'm a 47 year old male

> > that was

> > > > diagnosed

> > > > > > > > with low T three years ago.

> > It all

> > > > started when I

> > > > > > had an

> > > > > > > > accident at work and tore my

> > quadricep

> > > > tendon.

> > > > > > This was

> > > > > > > > followed by surgery and 13

> > months of

> > > > physical

> > > > > > therapy, while

> > > > > > > > taking 100-150mg/day of

> > hydrocodone.

> > > > The physical

> > > > > > therapy

> > > > > > > > was followed with work

> > conditioning,

> > > > which

> > > > > > consisted of 4

> > > > > > > > hrs./day of weight training.

> > I had no

> > > > energy and

> > > > > > my body was

> > > > > > > > constantly shutting down to

> > the point

> > > > that I

> > > > > > didn't have the

> > > > > > > > energy to get out of a chair.

> > I was

> > > > depressed,

> > > > > > had no

> > > > > > > > interest in sex whatsoever

> > and

> > > > basically gave up

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > everything. My complaints to

> > the doctor

> > > > were

> > > > > > ignored, as the

> > > > > > > > workers comp insurance

> > company decided

> > > > what

> > > > > > treatments I

> > > > > > > > would/wouldn't receive. The

> > doctor

> > > > finally

> > > > > > demanded to check

> > > > > > > > my T levels, as my symptoms

> > couldn't be

> > > > ignored

> > > > > > anymore. My

> > > > > > > > levels were vey low (150-160)

> > and he

> > > > put me on

> > > > > > > > Androgel(5g/day). After two

> > months

> > > > there was no

> > > > > > change, so

> > > > > > > > he changed it to 10g/day. A

> > couple

> > > > months later I

> > > > > > started

> > > > > > > > feeling better and felt like

> > living

> > > > again. My

> > > > > > levels were

> > > > > > > > checked and were around 300.

> > The

> > > > insurance

> > > > > > company decided

> > > > > > > > that this was a normal level

> > an

> > > > discontinued

> > > > > > treatment.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >    Two years later bring

> > us to

> > > > today. My

> > > > > > > > knee has not recovered well.

> > It has

> > > > been

> > > > > > determined that I

> > > > > > > > cannot return to work as I

> > knew it. My

> > > > job is

> > > > > > long gone and

> > > > > > > > so is my insurance. Finding a

> > new

> > > > job/insurance

> > > > > > with my

> > > > > > > > physical restrictions is

> > impossible.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >    The past year has been

> > pretty

> > > > grim. I

> > > > > > > > have the same feeling of

> > > > weekness/depression/lack

> > > > > > of desire.

> > > > > > > > Last month, my wife finally

> > had enough

> > > > and made

> > > > > > me get

> > > > > > > > checked again. I went to a

> > urologist

> > > > and my level

> > > > > > was 189.

> > > > > > > > He put me on 5gm/day of

> > Testim, as he

> > > > said it

> > > > > > worked better

> > > > > > > > that Androgel. He said he

> > wanted me on

> > > > it a for a

> > > > > > couple of

> > > > > > > > years. He wants to see me and

> > check

> > > > levels

> > > > > > monthly for the

> > > > > > > > first six months, then once

> > every six

> > > > months

> > > > > > after that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >    The office visit was

> > $113, the

> > > > blood test

> > > > > > > > was $195 and a 30 day supply

> > of Testim

> > > > is $300.

> > > > > > That's $600

> > > > > > > > a month that I just don't

> > have. To make

> > > > things

> > > > > > worse, I

> > > > > > > > don't feel any change with

> > the 5gm/day

> > > > Testim. If

> > > > > > he bumps

> > > > > > > > it up to 10gm/day, that will

> > be

> > > > another

> > > > > > $300/month.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >    As much as I want/need

> > to

> > > > continue this

> > > > > > > > treatment, I can't do it. I'm

> > afraid my

> > > > quality

> > > > > > of life will

> > > > > > > > continue to decline to the

> > point where

> > > > > > (nevermind).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >    I would love to hear

> > from others

> > > > who are

> > > > > > > > in the same situation. I

> > would also

> > > > appreciate

> > > > > > any ideas on

> > > > > > > > how to get treatment that's

> > affordable.

> > > > Thanks

> > > > > > for reading

> > > > > > > > and sorry for rambling...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jeff

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes you need to find the dose of HCG that makes your Testosterone go up to much

HCG it will only go so high the rest will convert into Estradiol. So I started

at 500 IU's 3x's a week after about 4 months I started to lower the dose but I

was now doing Test C shots evey 3 days and I started doing 500 IU's the 2 days

each in between my Test C shots. Labs were good Estradiol was high. So I cut

the dose down to 400 IU's held this for 8 weeks my labs came back about the same

but Estradiol was better. So we lower the dose to 300 IU's and held this 8

weeks my labs came back down so my best dose at the time was 400 IU's.

Today I am on HGH and found I don't need that much HCG so now I only do 250 IU's

every 3 days.

You need to find the dose that keeps your testis making T but not converting it

into Estradiol.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ihor n <ihor43us@...>

> Subject: Re: Hypogonagism without insurance

>

> Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 7:23 PM

> My strategy is to determine how low I

> can go with the cream while doing the HCG and still

> maintaining the levels of T I want. Once this is done I plan

> to decrease the HCG gradually while monitoring the FT and

> TT  as well as E2 levels. This should give me the

> optimal exogenous T via cream and combination.

>

> I will keep you posted. BTW, I am secondary as well by the

> looks of things. If I was primary the HCG would do nothing.

>

> Also, I am losing weight. Probably a combination of the HCG

> and the increased T.

>

> Ihor

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: tendertendon

> > > > > <tendertendon@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

>

> > > Hypogonagism

> > > > > without

> > > > > > > insurance

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday,

> August 22,

> > > 2010, 10:05

> > > > > AM

> > > > > > > > > Hello all,

> > > > > > > > >    I'm a 47 year

> old male

> > > that was

> > > > > diagnosed

> > > > > > > > > with low T three

> years ago.

> > > It all

> > > > > started when I

> > > > > > > had an

> > > > > > > > > accident at work

> and tore my

> > > quadricep

> > > > > tendon.

> > > > > > > This was

> > > > > > > > > followed by surgery

> and 13

> > > months of

> > > > > physical

> > > > > > > therapy, while

> > > > > > > > > taking

> 100-150mg/day of

> > > hydrocodone.

> > > > > The physical

> > > > > > > therapy

> > > > > > > > > was followed with

> work

> > > conditioning,

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > consisted of 4

> > > > > > > > > hrs./day of weight

> training.

> > > I had no

> > > > > energy and

> > > > > > > my body was

> > > > > > > > > constantly shutting

> down to

> > > the point

> > > > > that I

> > > > > > > didn't have the

> > > > > > > > > energy to get out

> of a chair.

> > > I was

> > > > > depressed,

> > > > > > > had no

> > > > > > > > > interest in sex

> whatsoever

> > > and

> > > > > basically gave up

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > everything. My

> complaints to

> > > the doctor

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > ignored, as the

> > > > > > > > > workers comp

> insurance

> > > company decided

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > treatments I

> > > > > > > > > would/wouldn't

> receive. The

> > > doctor

> > > > > finally

> > > > > > > demanded to check

> > > > > > > > > my T levels, as my

> symptoms

> > > couldn't be

> > > > > ignored

> > > > > > > anymore. My

> > > > > > > > > levels were vey low

> (150-160)

> > > and he

> > > > > put me on

> > > > > > > > > Androgel(5g/day).

> After two

> > > months

> > > > > there was no

> > > > > > > change, so

> > > > > > > > > he changed it to

> 10g/day. A

> > > couple

> > > > > months later I

> > > > > > > started

> > > > > > > > > feeling better and

> felt like

> > > living

> > > > > again. My

> > > > > > > levels were

> > > > > > > > > checked and were

> around 300.

> > > The

> > > > > insurance

> > > > > > > company decided

> > > > > > > > > that this was a

> normal level

> > > an

> > > > > discontinued

> > > > > > > treatment.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >    Two years

> later bring

> > > us to

> > > > > today. My

> > > > > > > > > knee has not

> recovered well.

> > > It has

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > determined that I

> > > > > > > > > cannot return to

> work as I

> > > knew it. My

> > > > > job is

> > > > > > > long gone and

> > > > > > > > > so is my insurance.

> Finding a

> > > new

> > > > > job/insurance

> > > > > > > with my

> > > > > > > > > physical

> restrictions is

> > > impossible.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >    The past year

> has been

> > > pretty

> > > > > grim. I

> > > > > > > > > have the same

> feeling of

> > > > > weekness/depression/lack

> > > > > > > of desire.

> > > > > > > > > Last month, my wife

> finally

> > > had enough

> > > > > and made

> > > > > > > me get

> > > > > > > > > checked again. I

> went to a

> > > urologist

> > > > > and my level

> > > > > > > was 189.

> > > > > > > > > He put me on

> 5gm/day of

> > > Testim, as he

> > > > > said it

> > > > > > > worked better

> > > > > > > > > that Androgel. He

> said he

> > > wanted me on

> > > > > it a for a

> > > > > > > couple of

> > > > > > > > > years. He wants to

> see me and

> > > check

> > > > > levels

> > > > > > > monthly for the

> > > > > > > > > first six months,

> then once

> > > every six

> > > > > months

> > > > > > > after that.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >    The office

> visit was

> > > $113, the

> > > > > blood test

> > > > > > > > > was $195 and a 30

> day supply

> > > of Testim

> > > > > is $300.

> > > > > > > That's $600

> > > > > > > > > a month that I just

> don't

> > > have. To make

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > worse, I

> > > > > > > > > don't feel any

> change with

> > > the 5gm/day

> > > > > Testim. If

> > > > > > > he bumps

> > > > > > > > > it up to 10gm/day,

> that will

> > > be

> > > > > another

> > > > > > > $300/month.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >    As much as I

> want/need

> > > to

> > > > > continue this

> > > > > > > > > treatment, I can't

> do it. I'm

> > > afraid my

> > > > > quality

> > > > > > > of life will

> > > > > > > > > continue to decline

> to the

> > > point where

> > > > > > > (nevermind).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >    I would love

> to hear

> > > from others

> > > > > who are

> > > > > > > > > in the same

> situation. I

> > > would also

> > > > > appreciate

> > > > > > > any ideas on

> > > > > > > > > how to get

> treatment that's

> > > affordable.

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > for reading

> > > > > > > > > and sorry for

> rambling...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jeff

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >     -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >