Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 I certainly wasn't pointing a finger at anyone in particular but the medical establishment in general. As you well know few medical people know how to treat TRT; there is no excuse for that.  My point was simple; if more MDs were held accountable perhaps some of these problems would disappear.  As far as me " manning up " ; few people have been through what I have experienced-- I have " manned up "  all of my life.  I have serious problems with the medical establishment and have expressed them here several different times.  Have a good day! From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...> Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:53 AM  Big Biceps-You have been an ass on this forum (and others), and to me, many times now. You DO have serious emotional issues. Suggesting I am somehow corrupt for taking the time to paint the big picture tells it all. Man Up, Dude. Your life will get better the day you do. Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 The point is destroying doctor's lives for at least trying will not help anyone-except malpractice lawyers for which the system is built to profit. Your anger would be better directed perhaps at doctors who refuse to even screen for T levels. Or Endo's who refuse to read the studies which show we MUST, for instance, use T4/T3 mixes, instead of just Synthroid. The evidence for all this is abundant and irrefutable. Going after docs for prescribing TRT is exactly what the conventional medical community, as well as BigPharma, want. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot here. Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Well said Dr. and it's true my wife's uncle was a Dr. and owned 2 hosp. In one of the City's the mayor wanted to buy his parking lots and charge for parking. He told them no so they threatened him saying they will ruined him. After a time his hosp. was on TV being raided showing cops walking out with trays of meds. We know cops can't do this it was fake but it rained him. I we go after every Dr. that does TRT we will not have any let, they will see the word gets around and Dr.'s will drop doing TRT. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 4:49 AM > Frustration is understandable, > especially when one has wasted time, money > and pain. > > > > But think of it this way: If a doctor is going to have his > life destroyed > for prescribing testosterone, how many will want to after > that? > > > > This is a war, not a battle. If you think it's tough being > a patient, you > should try being a doctor doing this. How would you like to > have a job which > risks total destruction of your life, each and every day, > just for doing > what is right? And have spent more than a decade of 16 hour > workdays-- > without pay, just to get that job? > > > > {And Obamacare is going to make it even less likely anyone > will prescribe > TRT, OR EvEN WANT TO GO THROUGH ALL IT TAKES TO BECOME A > DOCTOR!) > > > > There is no " Standard of Care " for TRT. No well-accepted > guidelines. No > university-based training programs. Physicians such as > myself get the > results we do because we study what our colleagues do, and > combine their > experience with ours. Definitely, rubbing elbows with the > top Thought > Leaders in the world, as I have the daily privilege, is > invaluable. But even > I am a slave to the knowledge I am able to access. > > > > And there are training programs out there which teach, for > instance, > " estrogen is not important in men " . I know of one which > just took place in > Colorado. And by doctors who claim to be " experts " in TRT > medicine. > > > > And BTW, dairy consumption is not known as a cause of > hypogonadism. > > > > Be well! > > Regards, > > > Crisler, DO > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > The information contained in this message is intended only > for the personal > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and > is protected by > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not > the intended > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have > received this > document in error and that any review, dissemination, > distribution, or > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and > delete the > original message. We would certainly do the same for you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 I have to agree with Big Biceps. I have nothing against Dr. Crisler, and I'm sure he's made a great deal of sacrifice for the study of TRT. He sounds like a stand-up guy. BUT I've been screwed up by plenty of doctors in the past. Sometime over issues that any first year nursing student could have diagnosed with a Merck Manual. None of their lives have been ruined. They're all still practicing. While I'm sure a frivolous lawsuit is a considerable threat to a doctor's practice, I'm living proof that the opposite is true. Poor practice and malpractice are seldom punished. > > > From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:53 AM > > > Â > > > > Big Biceps-You have been an ass on this forum (and others), and to me, many > times now. You DO have serious emotional issues. > > Suggesting I am somehow corrupt for taking the time to paint the big picture > tells it all. > > Man Up, Dude. Your life will get better the day you do. > > Be well! > > Regards, > > Crisler, DO > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this > document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the > original message. We would certainly do the same for you. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Guys I feel your pain but it's time to let it go if anyone has a right to be upset it's me took me 23 yrs to figure this out and Dr. helped and I never seen him. You can read my story at this link. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239 I don't get upset and carry this with me I do what I am doing right here this is how you help. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Dave <dcbaden@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:07 PM > > I have to agree with Big Biceps. > I have nothing against Dr. Crisler, and I'm sure he's made > a great deal of sacrifice for the study of TRT. He > sounds like a stand-up guy. > > BUT I've been screwed up by plenty of doctors in the > past. Sometime over issues that any first year nursing > student could have diagnosed with a Merck Manual. None > of their lives have been ruined. They're all still > practicing. > > While I'm sure a frivolous lawsuit is a considerable threat > to a doctor's practice, I'm living proof that the opposite > is true. Poor practice and malpractice are seldom > punished. > > > > > > > > > > > From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...> > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:53 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Big Biceps-You have been an ass on this forum (and > others), and to me, many > > times now. You DO have serious emotional issues. > > > > Suggesting I am somehow corrupt for taking the time to > paint the big picture > > tells it all. > > > > Man Up, Dude. Your life will get better the day you > do. > > > > Be well! > > > > Regards, > > > > Crisler, DO > > > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > > > The information contained in this message is intended > only for the personal > > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, > and is protected by > > state and federal law. If the reader of this message > is not the intended > > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to > the > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you > have received this > > document in error and that any review, dissemination, > distribution, or > > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this > > communication in error, please notify us immediately, > and delete the > > original message. We would certainly do the same for > you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Guys I feel your pain but it's time to let it go if anyone has a right to be upset it's me took me 23 yrs to figure this out and Dr. helped and I never seen him. You can read my story at this link. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239 I don't get upset and carry this with me I do what I am doing right here this is how you help. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Dave <dcbaden@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:07 PM > > I have to agree with Big Biceps. > I have nothing against Dr. Crisler, and I'm sure he's made > a great deal of sacrifice for the study of TRT. He > sounds like a stand-up guy. > > BUT I've been screwed up by plenty of doctors in the > past. Sometime over issues that any first year nursing > student could have diagnosed with a Merck Manual. None > of their lives have been ruined. They're all still > practicing. > > While I'm sure a frivolous lawsuit is a considerable threat > to a doctor's practice, I'm living proof that the opposite > is true. Poor practice and malpractice are seldom > punished. > > > > > > > > > > > From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...> > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:53 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Big Biceps-You have been an ass on this forum (and > others), and to me, many > > times now. You DO have serious emotional issues. > > > > Suggesting I am somehow corrupt for taking the time to > paint the big picture > > tells it all. > > > > Man Up, Dude. Your life will get better the day you > do. > > > > Be well! > > > > Regards, > > > > Crisler, DO > > > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > > > The information contained in this message is intended > only for the personal > > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, > and is protected by > > state and federal law. If the reader of this message > is not the intended > > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to > the > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you > have received this > > document in error and that any review, dissemination, > distribution, or > > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this > > communication in error, please notify us immediately, > and delete the > > original message. We would certainly do the same for > you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Guys I feel your pain but it's time to let it go if anyone has a right to be upset it's me took me 23 yrs to figure this out and Dr. helped and I never seen him. You can read my story at this link. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239 I don't get upset and carry this with me I do what I am doing right here this is how you help. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Dave <dcbaden@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:07 PM > > I have to agree with Big Biceps. > I have nothing against Dr. Crisler, and I'm sure he's made > a great deal of sacrifice for the study of TRT. He > sounds like a stand-up guy. > > BUT I've been screwed up by plenty of doctors in the > past. Sometime over issues that any first year nursing > student could have diagnosed with a Merck Manual. None > of their lives have been ruined. They're all still > practicing. > > While I'm sure a frivolous lawsuit is a considerable threat > to a doctor's practice, I'm living proof that the opposite > is true. Poor practice and malpractice are seldom > punished. > > > > > > > > > > > From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...> > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 1:53 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Big Biceps-You have been an ass on this forum (and > others), and to me, many > > times now. You DO have serious emotional issues. > > > > Suggesting I am somehow corrupt for taking the time to > paint the big picture > > tells it all. > > > > Man Up, Dude. Your life will get better the day you > do. > > > > Be well! > > > > Regards, > > > > Crisler, DO > > > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > > > The information contained in this message is intended > only for the personal > > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, > and is protected by > > state and federal law. If the reader of this message > is not the intended > > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to > the > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you > have received this > > document in error and that any review, dissemination, > distribution, or > > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this > > communication in error, please notify us immediately, > and delete the > > original message. We would certainly do the same for > you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Phil, Doc gave me prescription for pregnyl instead of novarel, same thing right? I actually had it filled and went back to the office and he showed me how to do it. He forgot to put size on insulin syringes and pharmacist gave me 30g 1/2 cc 5/16 " , sounds right? Also got the test cypionate and he told me to shoot into quads or delt, I think I'll try delt for now, whats best size needle for delt? > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the > > week > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me > > 400 > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too > > far apart. I > > > > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler > > and from > > > > the american endo board. I also told him that I > > felt > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's > > why I would > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the > > dose. My > > > > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a > > paper trail > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > someof the > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature > > and it's > > > > obvious that we have significantly different > > philosophies > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. That being > > said, I > > > > usually have little objection to patient's > > requests to try > > > > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. > > Unfortunately, > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > In your last email you informed me that you > > had > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the > > first two > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose > > related > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the > > time one > > > > would expect your T levels to be near their > > highest. I > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering the > > potential > > > > seriousness of your reactions along with current > > public and > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would > > be > > > > irresponsible of me to continue administering or > > prescribing > > > > testosterone at this time. Such action on my > > part > > > > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > > > > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty > > people have > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to > > have > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric > > clearance, > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > I'd have > > > > no problem administering T according to an > > acceptable > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely > > think that > > > > his name should be scrubbed from database as he > > also took a > > > > blood test last week and brushed off the high > > estrogen > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > norm. Now I > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment > > was scheduled > > > > for monday and that's right about the time I'll > > be crashing > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I use a 25g 5/8 " for my delts. A 1 " will work fine too. ________________________________ From: andrenym007 <no_reply > Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 7:11:46 PM Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon Phil, Doc gave me prescription for pregnyl instead of novarel, same thing right? I actually had it filled and went back to the office and he showed me how to do it. He forgot to put size on insulin syringes and pharmacist gave me 30g 1/2 cc 5/16 " , sounds right? Also got the test cypionate and he told me to shoot into quads or delt, I think I'll try delt for now, whats best size needle for delt? > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the > > week > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me > > 400 > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too > > far apart. I > > > > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler > > and from > > > > the american endo board. I also told him that I > > felt > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's > > why I would > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the > > dose. My > > > > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a > > paper trail > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > someof the > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature > > and it's > > > > obvious that we have significantly different > > philosophies > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. That being > > said, I > > > > usually have little objection to patient's > > requests to try > > > > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. > > Unfortunately, > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > In your last email you informed me that you > > had > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the > > first two > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose > > related > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the > > time one > > > > would expect your T levels to be near their > > highest. I > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering the > > potential > > > > seriousness of your reactions along with current > > public and > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would > > be > > > > irresponsible of me to continue administering or > > prescribing > > > > testosterone at this time. Such action on my > > part > > > > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > > > > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty > > people have > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to > > have > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric > > clearance, > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > I'd have > > > > no problem administering T according to an > > acceptable > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely > > think that > > > > his name should be scrubbed from database as he > > also took a > > > > blood test last week and brushed off the high > > estrogen > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > norm. Now I > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment > > was scheduled > > > > for monday and that's right about the time I'll > > be crashing > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 sounds good take my word for it shooting into your thighs is best and using a 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg needle will work for the Testosterone shots. The oil will come out slow so I just pull the plunger all the way down and hold it until I have my dose this I shoot just off the top of my thigh to the out side mid way between my knee and hip. It will come out slow but this is better. The needles for your HCG shots are fine you can shoot into your belly just 4 " s from your belly button or shot into your thigh. http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 8:11 PM > Phil, > > Doc gave me prescription for pregnyl instead of novarel, > same thing right? I actually had it filled and went back to > the office and he showed me how to do it. He forgot to put > size on insulin syringes and pharmacist gave me 30g 1/2 cc > 5/16 " , sounds right? Also got the test cypionate and he told > me to shoot into quads or delt, I think I'll try delt for > now, whats best size needle for delt? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email > earlier in the > > > week > > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was > giving me > > > 400 > > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and > spaced too > > > far apart. I > > > > > also sent him son\me literature from > dr. crisler > > > and from > > > > > the american endo board. I also told > him that I > > > felt > > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose > and that's > > > why I would > > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and > lower the > > > dose. My > > > > > mistake was sending him an email and > leaving a > > > paper trail > > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these > days. This is > > > someof the > > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's > literature > > > and it's > > > > > obvious that we have significantly > different > > > philosophies > > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. > That being > > > said, I > > > > > usually have little objection to > patient's > > > requests to try > > > > > reasonable alternative dosing > regimens. > > > Unfortunately, > > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > > In your last email you informed me > that you > > > had > > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects > from the > > > first two > > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " > and > > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to > be a dose > > > related > > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated > near the > > > time one > > > > > would expect your T levels to be near > their > > > highest. I > > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering > the > > > potential > > > > > seriousness of your reactions along > with current > > > public and > > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " > it would > > > be > > > > > irresponsible of me to continue > administering or > > > prescribing > > > > > testosterone at this time. Such > action on my > > > part > > > > > would likely be construed as > malpractice if not > > > > > illegal. I fully understand the > difficulty > > > people have > > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency > effectively > > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be > for you to > > > have > > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given > psychiatric > > > clearance, > > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric > follow-up, > > > I'd have > > > > > no problem administering T according to > an > > > acceptable > > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I > definitely > > > think that > > > > > his name should be scrubbed from > database as he > > > also took a > > > > > blood test last week and brushed off > the high > > > estrogen > > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the > industry > > > norm. Now I > > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next > appointment > > > was scheduled > > > > > for monday and that's right about the > time I'll > > > be crashing > > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 I filled up the insulin syringe today to the 25 mark is that correct? That's 250iu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email > > earlier in the > > > > week > > > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was > > giving me > > > > 400 > > > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and > > spaced too > > > > far apart. I > > > > > > also sent him son\me literature from > > dr. crisler > > > > and from > > > > > > the american endo board. I also told > > him that I > > > > felt > > > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose > > and that's > > > > why I would > > > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and > > lower the > > > > dose. My > > > > > > mistake was sending him an email and > > leaving a > > > > paper trail > > > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these > > days. This is > > > > someof the > > > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's > > literature > > > > and it's > > > > > > obvious that we have significantly > > different > > > > philosophies > > > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. > > That being > > > > said, I > > > > > > usually have little objection to > > patient's > > > > requests to try > > > > > > reasonable alternative dosing > > regimens. > > > > Unfortunately, > > > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > > > In your last email you informed me > > that you > > > > had > > > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects > > from the > > > > first two > > > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " > > and > > > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to > > be a dose > > > > related > > > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated > > near the > > > > time one > > > > > > would expect your T levels to be near > > their > > > > highest. I > > > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering > > the > > > > potential > > > > > > seriousness of your reactions along > > with current > > > > public and > > > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " > > it would > > > > be > > > > > > irresponsible of me to continue > > administering or > > > > prescribing > > > > > > testosterone at this time. Such > > action on my > > > > part > > > > > > would likely be construed as > > malpractice if not > > > > > > illegal. I fully understand the > > difficulty > > > > people have > > > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency > > effectively > > > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be > > for you to > > > > have > > > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given > > psychiatric > > > > clearance, > > > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric > > follow-up, > > > > I'd have > > > > > > no problem administering T according to > > an > > > > acceptable > > > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I > > definitely > > > > think that > > > > > > his name should be scrubbed from > > database as he > > > > also took a > > > > > > blood test last week and brushed off > > the high > > > > estrogen > > > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the > > industry > > > > norm. Now I > > > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next > > appointment > > > > was scheduled > > > > > > for monday and that's right about the > > time I'll > > > > be crashing > > > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Yes if you would but a Dec. Point in this .25 mls or .25 CC of the needle is 250 IU's. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 7:55 PM > I filled up the insulin syringe today > to the 25 mark is that correct? That's 250iu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an > email > > > earlier in the > > > > > week > > > > > > > telling him that I felt the > dose he was > > > giving me > > > > > 400 > > > > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was > high and > > > spaced too > > > > > far apart. I > > > > > > > also sent him son\me > literature from > > > dr. crisler > > > > > and from > > > > > > > the american endo board. I > also told > > > him that I > > > > > felt > > > > > > > somewhat short tempered on > this dose > > > and that's > > > > > why I would > > > > > > > like him to accomodate my > concerns and > > > lower the > > > > > dose. My > > > > > > > mistake was sending him an > email and > > > leaving a > > > > > paper trail > > > > > > > as most doctors are paranoid > these > > > days. This is > > > > > someof the > > > > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. > Crisler's > > > literature > > > > > and it's > > > > > > > obvious that we have > significantly > > > different > > > > > philosophies > > > > > > > and views on the treatment of > TD. > > > That being > > > > > said, I > > > > > > > usually have little objection > to > > > patient's > > > > > requests to try > > > > > > > reasonable alternative > dosing > > > regimens. > > > > > Unfortunately, > > > > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > > > > In your last email you > informed me > > > that you > > > > > had > > > > > > > significant adverse > psychiatric effects > > > from the > > > > > first two > > > > > > > injections of testosterone, > " paranoia " > > > and > > > > > > > " agitation " . This does not > appear to > > > be a dose > > > > > related > > > > > > > phenomenon since your > symptoms abated > > > near the > > > > > time one > > > > > > > would expect your T levels to > be near > > > their > > > > > highest. I > > > > > > > consulted an attorney, and > considering > > > the > > > > > potential > > > > > > > seriousness of your reactions > along > > > with current > > > > > public and > > > > > > > governmental concerns over > " roid rage " > > > it would > > > > > be > > > > > > > irresponsible of me to > continue > > > administering or > > > > > prescribing > > > > > > > testosterone at this time. > Such > > > action on my > > > > > part > > > > > > > would likely be construed as > > > malpractice if not > > > > > > > illegal. I fully understand > the > > > difficulty > > > > > people have > > > > > > > in getting testosterone > deficiency > > > effectively > > > > > > > treated. My best suggestion > would be > > > for you to > > > > > have > > > > > > > psychiatric evaluation. > Given > > > psychiatric > > > > > clearance, > > > > > > > and a period of continuing > psychiatric > > > follow-up, > > > > > I'd have > > > > > > > no problem administering T > according to > > > an > > > > > acceptable > > > > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to > do? I > > > definitely > > > > > think that > > > > > > > his name should be scrubbed > from > > > database as he > > > > > also took a > > > > > > > blood test last week and > brushed off > > > the high > > > > > estrogen > > > > > > > levels and his trt protocol > is not the > > > industry > > > > > norm. Now I > > > > > > > need to find a new doctor. My > next > > > appointment > > > > > was scheduled > > > > > > > for monday and that's right > about the > > > time I'll > > > > > be crashing > > > > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Phil since I started on trt about 2 months ago my tsh seems to have risen. I already take a big dose at 250 synthroid. Do you know why that would be the case? My tsh was 3.7 on last blood test and 2.5 the one before. The only difference is I dont take my pill before blood test so as not to influence numbers. > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is someof the response he sent me: > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a problem. > In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with current public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol you prefer. > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last dose. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Your tsh *may* be rising because synthroid is not working for you. Are you having hypo symtoms? TSH is NOT a good indicator of thyroid function as you may have conversion problems or tissue resistance. Synthetic T4 is a storage hormone which requires that your body convert it to the active T3 --you will want to test Free T3 and Free T4 at minimum and perhaps maybe take a look at switching to a natural dessicated thyroid product which has T3 in it (along with T4,T3,T2 and calcitonin), or by adding it to your synthetic T4 using Cytomel. El > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is someof the response he sent me: > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a problem. > > In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with current public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol you prefer. > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last dose. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 TSH is the message sent to your Thyroid telling it it needs more. So if your TSH is going up it tells me your Synthyroid is not working. And for most people it does not work good. My wife wasted 15 yrs of her life on it going from one Endo to the other and all they could tell her is to lose weight how can a women lose weight when she is hypo all the time. She found a Dr. that treated with Armour and now she is fine and wished she did this yrs. ago. Today we can't get armour so she is back on Shythyroid but her Dr. adds in T3 this is doing the job for her. Or you can go on natural dessicated thyroid it has all the T's in it and works great for a lot of people. Because we can't get Armour most people I talk to are using this. http://www.erfa-sa.com/thyroid_usa.htm Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Sunday, April 11, 2010, 9:14 PM > Phil since I started on trt about 2 > months ago my tsh seems to have risen. I already take a big > dose at 250 synthroid. Do you know why that would be the > case? My tsh was 3.7 on last blood test and 2.5 the one > before. The only difference is I dont take my pill before > blood test so as not to influence numbers. > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me 400 > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far apart. I > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > the american endo board. I also told him that I felt > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I would > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. My > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper trail > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is someof the > response he sent me: > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's > obvious that we have significantly different philosophies > and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I > usually have little objection to patient's requests to try > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, > we have a problem. > > In your last email you informed me that you had > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the first two > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one > would expect your T levels to be near their highest. I > consulted an attorney, and considering the potential > seriousness of your reactions along with current public and > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing > testosterone at this time. Such action on my part > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to have > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric clearance, > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, I'd have > no problem administering T according to an acceptable > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that > his name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a > blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing > from my last dose. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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